'42 Banner SJ, Repairs That Should Never Have Happened.

[David Collins]

A few weeks back this Gibson came in to my shop, a few weeks too late. It apparently went through some repairs at another area shop, and come to me as soon as the owner got it back.

To start with, this is a 1942 Southerner Jumbo. Mahogany back and sides, mahogany neck, maple neck wedge (no truss rod), mahogany neck and end blocks, firestripe pickguard, scalloped braces, low 2000's batch number (2118 I believe). In other words, this is a killer guitar. Highest model available when it was made, first year introduced (only year with firestripe pickguard), and before they started using maple necks and poplar blocks during the war. A very special, and excellent instrument worth preserving.

The "repair tech" it was taken to decided it needed a neck reset - and boy did they reset it. They reset it so much in fact that they also had to replace the bridge with a much much larger one - cocobolo of course. The original that was with it just a few months back is of course nowhere to be found now. Plenty of touchup around the extension, melted the binding at the back of the heel, and left the heel cap with a nice overhang.

Of course in replacing the bridge, they never did anything about the bridge plate, which was cracked and loose all the way behind the pins. Fortunately the tops on 30's and 40's Gibsons are among the most stable ones you'll find. In part for this reason, I question if the neck really needed a reset to begin with. The original bridges were often as short as 1/4" or less, and the cocobolo one it came to me with was over .400", so even if it did need one, they took way way too much off.

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sj10.jpg

A close up look of this beauty -

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjbadbridge.jpg

The beautiful heel cap fit

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjheel11.jpg

And the collateral heat damage on the back (sorry about the bad photo)

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjheel10.jpg

And then the cracked bridge plate that went ignored

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjbridgeplate10.jpg

Without getting in to pages of posts, I'll skip to the end. I am actually working on a real web site to go up one of these days though :rolleyes:, and will put up more detail on the process.

After discussing options with the owner, we decided not to attempt to bring the neck angle back down. The damage was already done, and though it may be worth doing a more proper restoration of the binding and finish there someday, it wasn't a priority for the owner a this time. It's still a well used studio instrument, and could be restored to full function without re-working that area at the present.

Though the original bridge would have been around .250", I determined that after a proper fret dress (a competent refret with jumbo wire had been done some time before the latest work), we could get by with a .300"-.320" bridge which would be acceptable for that era. This would leave us with a saddle approaching .160" over the bridge in the center, which with a new bridge plate, this top can handle fine.

So in the end we still have the ugliness around the neck, but that can be dealt with at any time in the future. Since it's not critical to bring it back in to use for the present, the owner has chosen to live with that for now.

So we went ahead with the bridge plate. (yes I took the picture before cleaning away that bit of glue squeeze-out :jo)

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjplatedone.jpg

A new Brazilian bridge, with all the correct period facets and curves

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjdone10.jpg

And got rid of the old shimmed nut (which was so poorly spaced and sloppy angles as to not have been worth shimming...)

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjnut10.jpg

And though the platform had been widened a bit too much to put the old .180"-.200" original size in, I was able to recover closer to the original trapezoidal style, with about a .215" base. At least it works now anyway, and looks a good bit more appropriate too.

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjnutdone.jpg

Anyway, it plays great now, is an incredible sounding guitar, and looks a bit more presentable as well.

Lesson is, be careful where you take your instruments. This owner unfortunately just paid a thousand and some between the original "repairs" and my re-repairs, and still has his instrument devalued as consequence of the first work. If you have any big work or valuable pieces, there's nothing wrong with bringing in some "test" pieces for smaller work to evaluate the skills and judgement of a tech. Even if a shop seem "established" is an approved warranty center, has been around a while, don't automatically assume you can trust them with any instrument. Go by recommendations and references from other musicians and collectors you trust. Otherwise - well, let's just say I've seen much worse than the case listed above.

http://www.collinsluthiery.com/images/sjdone12.jpg

If folks want, I could bring up some shots of procedures involved in the above repairs, but it could make this post pretty long.

[avincent52`]

How true. My luthier friends spend so much time un-doing bad work. It's unfortunate when the bad work was done 30 or 40 years ago (much of it done by the Martin and Gibson factories.)
It's inexcusable when it's done now.
(You don't want to hear about the 1930 OM-28 that had its neck reset....with naval epoxy.)

And to add to your point, understand that when you're evaluating a luthier, it's not a binary expert/hack distinction.

The guy who's perfectly capable of repairing a crack, installing a pickup, making a new saddle may be out of his depth doing a neckset. The guy who can do a fine neckset on a new Martin may have no business even looking at a 1920s neck with bar frets.

I've even got different guys for Martins and Gibsons.

And yes, the guys who do great vintage work are often rather expensive and often take their time. It's worth every cent and every minute. With a great vintage guitar, you don't get a second shot.

best
Allen

[KissTone]

Interesting pics---thanks!

What causes a bridge plate to crack like that, by the way? Is it just an age issue or perhaps oversized pins?

[walterw]

With a great vintage guitar, you don't get a second shot.

it's sort of the hippocratic oath, isn't it? first, do no harm!

i'm not set up or trained to do structural vintage restorations like this, and when i get guitars in that need and deserve it, i take great pains to impress upon the owners that few other people are, either! (i feel safe in referring them to gruhn or elderly.)

i guess discretion really is the better part of valor, because on a classic or valuable instrument, "what the hell, i'll rig up something" is not right, and not fair to the customer.

[GuitarsFromMars]

nice repair work,David...

[Jahn]

This is a great word to the wise. And not only should a luthier know their own skill at certain jobs, but they should communicate any particularly invasive procedures with the owner before attempting them. I once had a guitar with high action whose saddle was getting too low to shave down, so without telling me the luthier shaved the top of the bridge down - the lovely curved braz rosewood bridge got a Vanilla Ice flattop, ugh. C'mon, I would have just paid for a neck reset at that point instead! Ah well.

[plaintop]

I love the '42s!

[Traintrack]

Nice work Dave, what a killer guitar. You saved it form being rubbish.

[avincent52`]

(i feel safe in referring them to gruhn or elderly.)

FWIW, I don't think that Gruhn takes in customer work now. Their very large shop works only on their own inventory.

Explain it to a customer as if it were a car. The neighborhood garage will be able to change the oil and air filter changed in your Toyota. But it's not reasonable to expect them to be able to drop the transmission in a Ferrari. Or do bodywork on a 60s Mustang. You'll need to find a specialist. Two, in fact.

best
Allen

best
Allen

[Dave Orban]

Great job, Mr. Collins. LOVE those old mahogany Gibbys...!!!