Value of 1942 Gibson J-45?

[plunderpot]

Hello,

I'm looking into selling a 1942 Gibson J-45, and am trying to determine the value for this year - making sure I don't screw myself over! It has some playing wear, and has a non-original bridge and tuners. Otherwise in great shape - no repairs, cracks, etc. I have a guy who's interested...

Any idea of the price ranges for this guitar? I know that this is the year they were introduced...

Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Best,

J

[David Collins]

Got pics? Is it a banner? Does it have a truss rod? Skunk stripe? Mahogany or maple laminate neck? Mahogany or poplar neck block? Maple or mahogany back and sides? Firestripe or tortoise pickguard? Have a FON? How's the bridge work? '42-43 was a very transitional period, and little differences can make a noticeable difference in price for some buyers.

There are a ton of variables here. It could be worth your while to have it appraised professionally before selling it. Often times you can get more for these through an established dealer than selling it on your own, even after consignment fees. Get us some more details and pics if you have them, and some folks here may be able to get you a better ballpark figure though.

[smiert spionam]

Yup, details and condition are key. Mahogany/mahogany often goes for the lowest price, with mahogany/spruce (most common) in the middle and maple/spruce for a premium. Very broadly, 4-8K, probably.

There are some dedicated banner experts in the vintage forum at umgf.com.

[zombywoof]

1942 was the the first year the J-45 was made so it will have a an additional value just for that. Should have the banner, and I think a non-adjutable truss rod. Should also have that wonderful fat neck. While replaced tuners won't kill the value of the guitar, a non-original bridge is going to hurt a bit more .

Ya might want to go with a quickie George Gruhn estimate - ya just send him photos and a decscrption and tells ya what he thinks it worth. Does not cost much bit it ain't gonna be as accurate as having an expert eyeball the guitar.

Good Luck

[David Collins]

I just did a bit of work on a 42 Southerner Jumbo, posted over here (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=416625) there's a more detailed run down over at the OLF/Luthiers Forum). They are great instruments, and still undervalued in my opinion in comparison to Martins, though that is slowly changing. They can be difficult to accurately date, and there are many variables that can effect the value. In short, more details are needed.

If you could provide whatever answers you have to the questions I posted above it would be quite helpful (and some photos would be great). Without knowing more I would say the $4k-$8k mentioned is good range to guess, though I think $4k would represent much worse shape than what you're describing. More details may help folks here narrow down a target price for you.

[smiert spionam]

Wow, that's quite a monster bridge -- ugh! Nice work getting it back into respectable shape.

It's crucial to get these old beauties in the hands of those who know what they're doing. I've got a '41/'42 L-0 that had been traumatized by 60+ years of "repairs", and Bill Giebitz down here in Austin did an amazing job getting it back into shape.

(and I agree with you on the price range -- the low end would likely only apply if there are nasty surprises waiting inside, like a mad epoxy invasion)

[GuitslingerTim]

I talked to an old guy the other day that sold his vintage J-45 for $6000.

[plunderpot]

Hello all,

Wow - thanks for the replies and help! A few more details: It is a bannerhead, no truss rod (at least no place to adjust it), mahogany neck with no skunk stripe, mahogany back and side with spruce top, firestripe pickguard, the FOH is in the low 2000s. The bridge seems pretty good. There's some wear around the sound hole and around the bridge some.

A side note - wow David, you do great work!

Thanks all for the help, all the best!

J

[David Collins]

Well the firestripe pickguard J-45s were only made for about 4-5 months, and the mahogany neck and other details didn't last long either. It sounds like a nice one you've got there - short of being a 90x FON, it's within the most valuable short era of the J-45s. I personally feel they are still undervalued, and expect them to be one of the faster growing values (once people wise up to the fact that old Gibsons are better than their Martin counterparts :p).

If it were mine, I would hang on to it for a few years.It may be speculation, but I've got a feeling about these. It's definitely a safe investment to hold at least, and probably better than safe. There certainly aren't many of these on the market right now, and if a surge in value comes to these, it's not the first ones on the market that get top dollar.

If you should ever make it up to Ann Arbor I would love to take a look at it. If you have any specific questions about it, tonight would be a good night to ask because I'm leaving in the morning and will probably be stopping by Eldon Whitford's over the weekend. There are few people around who know more about these guitars than him.

[zombywoof]

I personally feel they are still undervalued, and expect them to be one of the faster growing values (once people wise up to the fact that old Gibsons are better than their Martin counterparts).


Your preachin' to the choir here - but it is nice to hear someone else say it.

[Vintage-tone]

Very much undervalued indeed.
I am so in love with em J45, J50 and other southern Jumbos family ...
I will be extremely interested myself if you decide to part with it but I would humbly but strongly advise you to keep it if you can afford to.
Not only these are amazing sounding guitars for most but 42 's also represent how dedicated some were to keep building instruments in such very difficult early WWII times.
They are not only a part of Gibson's and guitar building's history but also an amazing historical testimony. Any American guitar built after Dec 7th 1941 should be considered a serious piece of history IMHO.
Sadly even tho they did go up in price, a lot of people have a fascination for Brazilian rosewood, Koa, figured maple and mahogany guitars are way undervalued in general.

[David Collins]

Not only these are amazing sounding guitars for most but 42 's also represent how dedicated some were to keep building instruments in such very difficult early WWII times.
They are not only a part of Gibson's and guitar building's history but also an amazing historical testimony. Any American guitar built after Dec 7th 1941 should be considered a serious piece of history IMHO.

Very true. One of bits of magic about these guitars is that by this part of the war, Gibson had only been able to retain about 10% of it's workforce dedicated to guitar building. This means that pretty much every bit of work from sawing up boards to stringing it up was done by the top luthiers that they were able to keep around. And though this was probably among the first of the non-truss rod batches, it still falls within the very short window of the small pared down building team before they had to switch to maple necks and backs and poplar blocks.

Though their value is not so low that they could really be called a sleeper, I do think if you could afford to hang on to it at least a few more years you would be happy. I would at least watch the market until you see a few similar ones sell, and look to see how trends are leaning. They're worth more than what they're appraised at today in my opinion, and I do think that is changing soon.

[Vintage-tone]

No no no David, they are worthless and just take space and dust give em all to meeeeeee !
As we both said, keep it if you can. The problem is that even if you get a decent price for it today, you may never be able to find another clean good one. Of course if it s not your cup of tea and need to finance another guitar it's a different story but I sure strongly agree they are sleepers.

[Csgband]

Here is my first year spruce top beauty.
Keep yours if you can Man!http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj254/csgband/J45/J45.jpghttp://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj254/csgband/J45/J45Banner.jpghttp://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj254/csgband/J45/J45full.jpg

[plaintop]

Chris, that's a real beauty! I'd love to see pics of this '42 in question. I absolutely LOVE the prewar Gibson guitars esp the '42s. A good friend of mine owns (3) J35s and I was fortunate enough to grab a very rare transitional '42 J35 last year. It's essentially a J50 body with a J35 neck.

You can see it at the Banner Gibson website here:

http://www.bannergibsons.com/gallery/registryphotos/7218h22j35brianvirts.html

These guitars sound incredible and are very inspiring to write with. I also agree that they are largely undervalued. Although that is rapidly changing as more and more collectors turn to them from electrics.

David Collins, one thing to note is that most of Gibson's workforce during the war was primarily women.

[jpfeiff]

Chris, that's a real beauty! I'd love to see pics of this '42 in question. I absolutely LOVE the prewar Gibson guitars esp the '42s.

Uh...didn't we enter the war in 1941? Does '42 still count as "prewar?" I've always wondered about the definition of PW--it seems to vary sepending on who you talk to. BTW, it sounds like a REALLY COOL guitar that the OP has...

[zombywoof]

Uh...didn't we enter the war in 1941? Does '42 still count as "prewar?" I've always wondered about the definition of PW--it seems to vary sepending on who you talk to. BTW, it sounds like a REALLY COOL guitar that the OP has...

Yup, the desination of a pre-war guitar has more to do with the year when shortages of materials forced guitar makers to change their instruments than with historical events. For at least Gibson and Martin the change came in 1943. On Gibsons you will run across guitars from 1943 on without truss rods or with several piece spruce (instead of bookmatched spruce) or even mahogany tops (metal and spruce were both needed for the war effort). So 1942 is generally considered "pre-war."

[Csgband]

Thanks Plaintop, my jaw drops every time I pick it up.

[plaintop]

Hey Chris, too bad you aren't a little closer, I'd love to pass a few flattops around. Have you registered yours with Willi at bannergibsons?

Brian

[flyingvees]

I have one thats a 42 j45 with skunk stripe down the middle of the top...Gruhn has remarked about seeing only two in his life and mine is one of them...Still has brass frets but is one of the loudest and best sounding guitars I have ever owned...Its with my father now but I am bringing her home soon....

[MichaelK]

I don't think they're undervalued so much as they're ubiquitous... there are a lot of them floating around, so prices reflect that. As with anything that old made out of wood and bits of metal, their condition and sound vary widely from one to another.

About a year ago J-45s from the 40s were selling in stores around $2k - 3k, depending more on cosmetic condition than tone, it seemed. I played a bunch in various places because I was in the market for one. To be honest, very few of them sounded that good to me, but those that did were powerfully cool. I played some that looked like dogs with serious repairs that sounded gorgeous... dry, funky and potent as you'd ever want. Others that were in beautiful shape, well-cared for and undamaged, sounded like overcooked hamburger on a paper towel. Looks were no way to tell. They were not carefully crafted, individually voiced works of art, they were meant to be easily affordable.

P.S. - as I recall of those I played... the particular year they were made also affected their price, but not my impression of their tone. I think the one I had my heart set on was made after 1945.

[plaintop]

About this time last year I was in hot pursuit of a banner era J45. At that time dealers were asking 6k+ for nice examples. Issue and mahogany topped guitars were bringing around 4k. Unfortunately, there weren't any in the 2-3k range that were anywhere near original examples. Laminate maple banners were north of 8k, I bid on one at an estate sale that ended over 9k. Fast forward to today and add 2-3 k on all those prices. Clean post banners, script logo '46s are now bringing 8k. Production numbers are considerably lower than people realize.

They are not just everywhere for sale, and I have to disagree about the crafstmanship. These guitars are amazingly well made, lightly braced, hand scalloped tone bars (voiced), beautiful finishes. Incredible rich, woody tone. I personally think they are some of the best guitars ever made, and I think the prices on them will double and triple in the next five years.

[MichaelK]

About this time last year I was in hot pursuit of a banner era J45. At that time dealers were asking 6k+ for nice examples.

I stand corrected - I was actually looking 2-1/2 years ago, not last year.

They are not just everywhere for sale, and I have to disagree about the crafstmanship. These guitars are amazingly well made, lightly braced, hand scalloped tone bars (voiced), beautiful finishes. Incredible rich, woody tone. I personally think they are some of the best guitars ever made, and I think the prices on them will double and triple in the next five years.

I didn't mean to imply that they are just slapped-together POS, the're classics for darned good reason. I also feel that they are some of the best guitars ever made, I REALLY love them. But I don't feel that they ALL have "rich, woody tone," at least not in 2008. Some of them just don't do much for me at all. Maybe they all sounded great at one time, and poor upkeep or storage conditions are solely responsible for those that no longer rock my boat... I really don't know.

It's just an observation, and just personal opinion. No offense meant to anyone who feels differently.

[plaintop]

Hi Michael, no offense taken here. I've been fortunate enough to play some really nice vintage acoustics (recently). Most of which have had neck resets, frets and saddle/nut work. These guitars require maintenance from a highly skilled acoustic luthier. Otherwise, they can be pretty bad with respect to tone and playability.

If you find an original good sounding example, it really is something to hold onto.

Brian