New Line 6 M13?

[raginghonkies]

Would anybody be kind enough to detail me the 4 Cables method to cable the M13 in the Loop of my OD100 SE+ ? just want to use the Gain from my amp , No OD will be used from the M13... How do you set the Effects to be Pre or post gain of the amp ? function for this ? Sorry ... never had such a fx unit :-) Always been analog Pedals , but i really want to give the M13 , so VERSATILE ! Just hope there's not too much tone suckage or Drop volume issues,cause i like SO MUCH the sound of the SE+ ...

[mrt]

I just bought one. First class tones.

I like the tap tempo on everything. Great unit for the money.

[Mincer]

How does the M13 compare to either stock or modded TS pedals? Anyone able to get pretty close? How does it clean up with the volume knob?

[Vintage]

Man I want one of these!

[lxm]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M13/

pretty cool. get a free expression pedal! :dude

[tvegas99]

I've been following this thread with great enthusiasm for quite a while. Got my m13 about 2 weeks ago, used it on a couple of rehearsals and gigs and I am unfortunately going to return it. It really has a lot of great sounds and I love that it's so easy to use, it's just not for me.

The concept is of course awesome, but, for me there is a harsh quality about these boxes that makes me feel like I am no longer playing my guitar and amp, instead I'm playing the m13 and losing all the warmth and nuance of my usual sound. I felt the same way about the XT Live a few years back. To me... they are both too brittle and cold.

I'm glad it has worked so well for so many...guess I'll keep searching.

[eugewong]

The concept is of course awesome, but, for me there is a harsh quality about these boxes that makes me feel like I am no longer playing my guitar and amp, instead I'm playing the m13 and losing all the warmth and nuance of my usual sound. I felt the same way about the XT Live a few years back. To me... they are both too brittle and cold.

Just curious, during this period, did you use the M13 for most of your dirt sounds? Or did you pair the M13 with your other preferred dirt boxes and still feel this way?

Reason I ask, is that personally, I'm exploring the idea of getting a M13 just for the almost-limitless filters/modulations/weird sounds, and running it with my favorite dirt boxes in front of it (or in the loop).

[tvegas99]

I did not use the m13 for any dirt sounds, I get those from my amp Fuchs TDS 50 or a Zvex BOR

[MichaelThomas]

Anyone know if this thing can be powered by a voodoo labs pedal power II?

[plato67]

Just got mine last night... very cool. Haven't been able to turn it up yet, but looks like a winner. The delays are especially good, and I haven't tried them in stereo yet.

I want to know about the power supply as well. I'm going to redesign my board around the M13 but I still want to use my wha, keeley comp and my choice dirt boxes.

I also would like some suggestions on durable expression pedals that will work with the M13. I want one that's as solid as my Fulltone Wha. I like the solid interaction between my foot and the pedal.

[stilwel]

I don't think a Pedal Power has enough juice to power the M13.

[raginghonkies]

I don't think a Pedal Power has enough juice to power the M13.

Is it a standart 2,1mm , 9VDC connection ? center negative ? 2000mA ?

Can i use the Ernie ball 25K Jr pedals for the EXP pedals ?

[iluvstrats]

I've been following this thread with great enthusiasm for quite a while. Got my m13 about 2 weeks ago, used it on a couple of rehearsals and gigs and I am unfortunately going to return it. It really has a lot of great sounds and I love that it's so easy to use, it's just not for me.

The concept is of course awesome, but, for me there is a harsh quality about these boxes that makes me feel like I am no longer playing my guitar and amp, instead I'm playing the m13 and losing all the warmth and nuance of my usual sound. I felt the same way about the XT Live a few years back. To me... they are both too brittle and cold.

I'm glad it has worked so well for so many...guess I'll keep searching.

I felt the same way and took it back. A couple of effects I use regularly are a line 6 tonecore Roto machine and a tonecore otto filter and those same effects in the M13 were subpar to me and unusable. I was pretty bummed after waiting so long for it to come out.

[dognmoon]

Is it a standart 2,1mm , 9VDC connection ? center negative ? 2000mA ?

Can i use the Ernie ball 25K Jr pedals for the EXP pedals ?

Not sure on the connection stuff, but I hear positive reviews on using the 25k EBjr pedal for expression.

[raginghonkies]

Is the Filter section ( purple Screen ) as Good sound wise than the FM4 Pedal ? Same effects , but is the quality here ?

[stilwel]

Exact same effects.....so yes, same quality. In my opinion, owners of the 4-button stompers will be just as happy, and in some cases happier with the M13 models than the originals. For example, some of the DL4 Delays have been vastly improved, and some new models have been added.

[dognmoon]

stilwel,
Do you use much compression? I'm using the 4-cable method with a drive or filter in block 1 and always a fairly hard compressor in block 2. But I can only use about 2/5 of the delay options because of volume drop issues. I'm assuming it's something to do with my Nashville Squash comp addiction but I haven't had the time to sit down and suss out a solution by trial and error.

[plato67]

The barrel from my MM4 fits the M13, so I assume (I don't have one yet) that the PP2Plus barrel will fit the M13. I'm no electrician, but the M13 walwart sends 2000 mA and the MM4 sends 1200 mA.
Will the PP2plus, that does power the MM4 with 1200mA, have enough juice for the M13, which wants 2000 mA?

Anyone?

[dognmoon]

Any word on if it will work with a PP2 plus?

last I heard, the only successful way to do it is to use the standard wallwart and to use the courtesy outlet on the back of the PP2.

BUT, I also heard that the EBjr worked, so I'm not sure. There's a pretty long thread over at the official L6 forum that deals with expression pedals (http://line6.com/support/thread.jspa?threadID=37951&tstart=0).

[lizarddust]

The barrel from my MM4 fits the M13, so I assume (I don't have one yet) that the PP2Plus barrel will fit the M13. I'm no electrician, but the M13 walwart sends 2000 mA and the MM4 sends 1200 mA.
Will the PP2plus, that does power the MM4 with 1200mA, have enough juice for the M13, which wants 2000 mA?

Anyone?

I tried the 1-spot adaptor. It has 1700mA of juice but it still didn't work. I think it really needs 2000mA. I wish there were a better solution, the line 6 wall wart is kind of big to mount on a pedalboard.

[radcliff]

The EB pedal works for the DL4, you just plug into the OUTPUT of the EB.

I bet the same goes for the M13

[cosmos]

Hey Radcliff,
do you use the standard EB volume pedal for this? Or the junior version?

[dognmoon]

Hey Radcliff,
do you use the standard EB volume pedal for this? Or the junior version?

I think you can use whichever one has a 25k ohm pot. And in the Jr's, this is the active one I believe (because the EBjr's come in both an active and passive version).

[radcliff]

Use the 25k one....I used an EB Jr. 25k

[GCDEF]

I got it working with the 25k EB Jr. Works great.

[Squigglefunk]

this looks great.


a few Qs

are they still using microswitches with a fancy looking metal plunger?

does the looper allow you to do a short loop then loop a longer phrase over it?

[JC-Tonequest]

Can anyone on here tell me if you can change an amps channels that has midi? Will it send Midi Program Changes? I have a H&K Triamp MKII with the midi module. It would be great if you could control the amps channels with this thing too!

Thanks!!!

[dognmoon]

this looks great.


a few Qs

are they still using microswitches with a fancy looking metal plunger?

does the looper allow you to do a short loop then loop a longer phrase over it?

The switches for the X3 series and the M13 are the same. Heavy duty metal switches with a heavy duty metal housing. I wouldn't let the switch strength bother you.

As for the looper, the first pas defines the length. All subsequent passes work within that length, IIRC.

[FUSER]

Exact same effects.....so yes, same quality. In my opinion, owners of the 4-button stompers will be just as happy, and in some cases happier with the M13 models than the originals. For example, some of the DL4 Delays have been vastly improved, and some new models have been added.


This is great news for me as I am quite happy with DM-4, DL-4 and MM-4 I have used. I still own the MM-4.

[Squigglefunk]

The switches for the X3 series and the M13 are the same. Heavy duty metal switches with a heavy duty metal housing. I wouldn't let the switch strength bother you.

is this like the DL4 type switch is what I'm asking. I think they also had metal switch but they actually are just pressing down on a little cheap microswitch which I've had nothing but problems with on these multieffect type units.

plus too bad about the looper function. I know so many people who want to be able to lay down a short rhythm, loop it then throw a longer loop over top of that, etc.

[dognmoon]

no, the switches are upgraded from the 4-button series. But, they aren't much different in terms of function. I believe they still work by depressing against a PCB touch-pad (which is a bit of an oversimplification).

The product manager for the M13 is extremely active over on the L6 forum and says that this unit was road tested by gorillas. I'm using one on the road in TX right now and haven't seen any reason to be nervous about the switching. I'll be posting a detailed review on the plane back to Cali on Friday.

[richrenken]

Is the Filter section ( purple Screen ) as Good sound wise than the FM4 Pedal ? Same effects , but is the quality here ?

Product Manager for M13 here. Just wanted to let you know, these were ported over exactly but we added much better pitch tracking algorithm to it. I actually had an artist get freaked out at first because it wasn't as random as his FM4. I told him about the improved tracking and then was stoked about the new stuff he could do. Fun stuff.

[richrenken]

Also guys, if you have any questions or concerns about M13 feel free to PM me. You can post the questions here and I will answer, but as the rules state and I completely agree with, I will only post answers without giving personal opinions on other products.

Also if you want you can post your questions and concerns over on our forums.

Thank you all for all your posts.

[raginghonkies]

Also guys, if you have any questions or concerns about M13 feel free to PM me. You can post the questions here and I will answer, but as the rules state and I completely agree with, I will only post answers without giving personal opinions on other products.

Also if you want you can post your questions and concerns over on our forums.

Thank you all for all your posts.

AWESOME ! Welcome RICH ! Let's Start to have fun :-) my M13 will be in the house tomorrow , looking forwads to try it with the 4 Method Cables and My OD100 SE+ ( won't use any drive or fuzz from the M13 )

[plato67]

Welcome Rich,

I've been lurking about the Line6 site recently since I bought my M13, and have been impressed with your responses and candour. I haven't had time to put it through it's paces with the band yet, but most of the tones sound good so far; the delays especially.

I love the portability and have mounted it on my pedalboard. My major concern thus far has to do with the power adaptor... is there any way to power the M13 by some other means, like a PP2plus, that will also power my other pedals? I dread having to lug that boat anchor of a walwart around.

thx

[richrenken]

AWESOME ! Welcome RICH ! Let's Start to have fun :-) my M13 will be in the house tomorrow , looking forwads to try it with the 4 Method Cables and My OD100 SE+ ( won't use any drive or fuzz from the M13 )

Thank you. So, raging honkies, obviously a Landau fan.

I know the DM4 has had a bad rap in the past, we found a couple bugs and fixed them in M13. Check out the sound samples at our site. Tube Drive and Colordrive are pretty fun, even if just for variety.

[richrenken]

Welcome Rich,

I've been lurking about the Line6 site recently since I bought my M13, and have been impressed with your responses and candour. I haven't had time to put it through it's paces with the band yet, but most of the tones sound good so far; the delays especially.

I love the portability and have mounted it on my pedalboard. My major concern thus far has to do with the power adaptor... is there any way to power the M13 by some other means, like a PP2plus, that will also power my other pedals? I dread having to lug that boat anchor of a walwart around.

thx

Yup, dang wallwarts. There are many reasons why we use them, I am sure you all know. It is a bummer that it doesn't work with PP2. But to let you guys know, I am talkin to my buddies over there about making that happen. Keep your fingers crossed.

[troykennedy]

Hey Rich!

So, would you mind running down any changes or improvements from the 4 button pedals to the M13 besides the global stuff like global tap tempo and scenes. Most of us are pretty familiar with the 4 button version.

Welcome!!

[richrenken]

Hey Rich!

So, would you mind running down any changes or improvements from the 4 button pedals to the M13 besides the global stuff like global tap tempo and scenes. Most of us are pretty familiar with the 4 button version.

Welcome!!

28 second looper, one layer of undo, you can run the looper with FX pre or post, and once the loop is going, you can use all your effects.

It has Verbzilla built, great reverb pedal.

You can of course run four delays at once and create stuff you couldn't with the DL4.

The True bypass is great.

We added non modeled drypath versions of tube, tape, sweep and echo platter delays. Meaning no change to your guitar sound as you run through them. DL4 only had the modeled dry path version. Meaning, if using a Tube Echo, it sounds like your guitar is going through the EP. Now you can have that or not.

We added a way better pitch tracking algorithm to the Filter modeler stuff.

We fixed the "phasey" problem that guys have been upset about on the DL4. Check out Analog w/Mod.

The fact that it has better hardware and we’re using a 24-bit audio codec, and sampling at 48 kHz. Internally, all audio is processed as 32-bit floating point (except the Low Res delay, of course)

There are a couple great functions that you can check out in the advanced user guide at our website. Copy effect to another switch function and fine tune of the ms on the delays so you can match a sessions BPM.

What else, what else.

Not only have we given you all the note values to tap tempo the delays, you can set most of the mods and some of the filters to tap tempo.

Tuner of course

Midi that can be used to control your M13 with a ground control.

The Looper has play and overdub volume as well as a high pass and low pass filter.

Anyone think of stuff I am forgetting??

[cosmos]

Hi Rich,

I'm really enjoying the M13. It really takes a bit of time setting up as far as getting a good 'pedalboard' together, because it's not like you're adding 1 pedal to your chain, but basically a whole new pedalboard you have to put together. But the tweaking on the whole is pretty easy and the sounds are great.
I guess a few firmware bugs are already addressed in the Line6 forums, but to me a few little bits should really be fixed:
* Powering it with a PP2 is a must. That adapter is just too inconvenient..
* Don't you feel that the plastic knobs a bit 'flimsy' and easy to break?
* The use of BPM besides milliseconds. I can never totally sync it to our drummer's click, as fine-tuning isn't as easy as it seems. Turning the knob a little immediately changes a lot of milliseconds.

[eugewong]

no, the switches are upgraded from the 4-button series. But, they aren't much different in terms of function. I believe they still work by depressing against a PCB touch-pad (which is a bit of an oversimplification).

The product manager for the M13 is extremely active over on the L6 forum and says that this unit was road tested by gorillas. I'm using one on the road in TX right now and haven't seen any reason to be nervous about the switching. I'll be posting a detailed review on the plane back to Cali on Friday.

dognmoon,

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your 2 reviews so far, and am looking forward to your 3rd one. Very helpful to get a true real world perspective.

And I also hope that your brother is better!

Best,
Eugene

[batousay]

Hi, I've been following this thread for a long time (as I'm really interested on M13).

Read that M13 includes a global noise-gate, I suppose it will work with all the effects, but is it powerful enough to silence my amp's noise?

Thanks and keep posting, helps a lot.

[JC-Tonequest]

Welcome Rich,

I've been lurking about the Line6 site recently since I bought my M13, and have been impressed with your responses and candour. I haven't had time to put it through it's paces with the band yet, but most of the tones sound good so far; the delays especially.

I love the portability and have mounted it on my pedalboard. My major concern thus far has to do with the power adaptor... is there any way to power the M13 by some other means, like a PP2plus, that will also power my other pedals? I dread having to lug that boat anchor of a walwart around.

thx

I am receiving my M13 today. I have a Pedal Power AC that I think should work to power it. I power a PodXT with it right now and it works great. I will keep everyone posted on it.

[stilwel]

* The use of BPM besides milliseconds. I can never totally sync it to our drummer's click, as fine-tuning isn't as easy as it seems. Turning the knob a little immediately changes a lot of milliseconds.

HOT TIP:
There's a way to fine-tune the ms for delay times and mod rates.

When you get the time in the range you want, press and hold the TAP footswitch while turning the time parameter knob. The display will now change in smaller increments.

[cosmos]

HOT TIP:
There's a way to fine-tune the ms for delay times and mod rates.

When you get the time in the range you want, press and hold the TAP footswitch while turning the time parameter knob. The display will now change in smaller increments.

Holy moly! Why isn't that in the manual?? That's great, thanks!


@Richrenken: that's another small comment. There seem to be a lot more cool features and option actually in the device, than they are mentioned in the manuals. This is pretty cool stuff that really should be in there..

[troykennedy]

Holy moly! Why isn't that in the manual?? That's great, thanks!


@Richrenken: that's another small comment. There seem to be a lot more cool features and option actually in the device, than they are mentioned in the manuals. This is pretty cool stuff that really should be in there..

Did you download the advanced manual from the Line6 website?

Also, Rich, you are the man. thanks so much for all the help.

I will say that a BPM in addition to a milliseconds option, ala the DD-20, would have been nice. But I still love it!

[cosmos]

Did you download the advanced manual from the Line6 website?


Yep, sure did.

[dramaticrunner]

does anyone know if there is a way to switch entire rows within a scene? i think that would be very valuable being able to change 4 effects simultaneously

[richrenken]

Yep, sure did.

Hey cosmo. The fine tune function is explained on page 2*1.

[richrenken]

Hi Rich,

I'm really enjoying the M13. It really takes a bit of time setting up as far as getting a good 'pedalboard' together, because it's not like you're adding 1 pedal to your chain, but basically a whole new pedalboard you have to put together. But the tweaking on the whole is pretty easy and the sounds are great.
I guess a few firmware bugs are already addressed in the Line6 forums, but to me a few little bits should really be fixed:
* Powering it with a PP2 is a must. That adapter is just too inconvenient..
* Don't you feel that the plastic knobs a bit 'flimsy' and easy to break?
* The use of BPM besides milliseconds. I can never totally sync it to our drummer's click, as fine-tuning isn't as easy as it seems. Turning the knob a little immediately changes a lot of milliseconds.

I am so glad you are enjoying it. I love mine!!!!! BTW, I am a bass player, it is killer for us. (Bass in your face) is my pedalboard under the Scenes menu.

We do have a firmware update coming soon. Want to catch all the bugs before we release and all you guys have been GREAT helping me be sure we catch them all.

so, to your bits.
---It won't power with a PP2. I have one on my pedalboard. I really wanted it to work, but I am talking with my buddies at Voodoo Labs about PP3? :) who know.
---We haven't had very many break with the ToneCores. knock on wood. But bottomline, we wanted the $499 price for this piece and fought hard for it.
---- The ms was answered by stilwel. We do have all the cool functions in the advanced user guide on our website.

P.S. Did you see the copy function?
It is on page 3*3

[GCDEF]

does anyone know if there is a way to switch entire rows within a scene? i think that would be very valuable being able to change 4 effects simultaneously

I would think you'd accomplish that just by changing scenes. Set up a scene where your four effects are turned on and switch to it.

[swampthing]

I would think you'd accomplish that just by changing scenes. Set up a scene where your four effects are turned on and switch to it.

That's exactly how it works.

[JC-Tonequest]

I am receiving my M13 today. I have a Pedal Power AC that I think should work to power it. I power a PodXT with it right now and it works great. I will keep everyone posted on it.

FYI, got my M13 yesterday. Didn't really get a chance to mess with it much. Seems like a winner. On my way down stairs to really put it thru the paces. I just wanted to let you all know that the Voodoo Lab Pedal Power AC powers the M13 great.

[plato67]

Rich, could we get verification that the PP AC SHOULD play nice with the M13?

[cosmos]

FYI, got my M13 yesterday. Didn't really get a chance to mess with it much. Seems like a winner. On my way down stairs to really put it thru the paces. I just wanted to let you all know that the Voodoo Lab Pedal Power AC powers the M13 great.

Hey UberXTC, according to the Voodoo Lab PP AC manual (http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/ppac_manual.pdf) the max output of this is 1200 mA. Can you explain how to power this? Or are you using the Aux Out?

[plato67]

Oh... I was also able to use the M13 stereo outs last night. Whoa, the delays and Mod effects are stunning. Unfortunately, this means I'll have to lug 2 amps to gigs now...

[fiftywatt]

Oh... I was also able to use the M13 stereo outs last night. Whoa, the delays and Mod effects are stunning. Unfortunately, this means I'll have to lug 2 amps to gigs now...

Stereo delays and mods are a very slippery slope.:AOK
I'm doing the stereo thing with a Boss GT-10 and it is
hard to go back to mono after that. Lugging two amps to
gigs IS a drag though. I am patiently waiting
on M13 availability at my local dealer so I can go demo one.
Pretty sure I will buy one anyway.

[Andy S.]

Oh... I was also able to use the M13 stereo outs last night. Whoa, the delays and Mod effects are stunning. Unfortunately, this means I'll have to lug 2 amps to gigs now...


My tele and strat, a M13 and two Swart AST Pro's .........and I would be done for life...:AOK

[ATXbonehead]

Stereo delays and mods are a very slippery slope.:AOK
I'm doing the stereo thing with a Boss GT-10 and it is
hard to go back to mono after that. Lugging two amps to
gigs IS a drag though. I am patiently waiting
on M13 availability at my local dealer so I can go demo one.
Pretty sure I will buy one anyway.

Hear, Hear... I have been playing stereo rigs for years now. You just cannot beat them. Depending on the gig it is either 2 AC30's or a Hot Rod Deluxe and an AC30.

I do have one question to anyone that has been using the M13. How does the Detune sound? Anyone try it yet?
Thanks

[fiftywatt]

We do have a firmware update coming soon. Want to catch all the bugs before we release and all you guys have been GREAT helping me be sure we catch them all.

Rich..

I am biding my time on the M13. Planning to buy for sure.
Any ETA for the firmware update? I'd really prefer to buy
a future unit with the firmware update in place. Possible?

[richrenken]

Hey UberXTC, according to the Voodoo Lab PP AC manual (http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/ppac_manual.pdf) the max output of this is 1200 mA. Can you explain how to power this? Or are you using the Aux Out?

Yes UberXTC, I would love to know what you are doing. My PP2 did not work. Well it worked on one effect on but get the second and third and fourth going, and it fades out.

[richrenken]

Hey UberXTC, according to the Voodoo Lab PP AC manual (http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/ppac_manual.pdf) the max output of this is 1200 mA. Can you explain how to power this? Or are you using the Aux Out?

Rich..

I am biding my time on the M13. Planning to buy for sure.
Any ETA for the firmware update? I'd really prefer to buy
a future unit with the firmware update in place. Possible?

It will be soon, but there are so many units on the water in the warehouse, in distribution centers and in the stores. I will be hard to tell when it gets in and where those will go. I would grab one, they are selling out all over. You only need a usb to midi cable to update and then you can use that cable to back up your scenes or share scenes with others.

[Ren5150]

Got mine Friday. Plugged it in today. Running it straight into an old Ampeg VH-140C Combo.

This thing is AMAZING. I am a gear pig and really don't find alot I am happy with but this is GREAT. Right out of the box, sounds fantastic. Will toy with it a bit more tomorrow.

[dognmoon]

http://www.dognmoon.com/tgp/M13suitcase.jpg http://www.dognmoon.com/tgp/M13backpack.jpg http://www.dognmoon.com/tgp/M13stage.jpg

M13 On-The-Job Review Part III of III (fly dates)
I'm a traveling clinician for a guitar manufacturer and chose to use the M13 on the road this past week. Like I noted in my last review (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=4639663&postcount=209), I was in TX to see my brother who was in a motorcycle accident (and healing nicely- thanks for all prayers and thoughts)- but I had a previously scheduled week of clinics in TX, so it was serendipitous, I suppose. Normally, I use whatever amps are in the stores and bring a Bad Monkey, A Red Llama, and a DD-6 to cover a couple of flavors of overdrive and some delay. The Bad Monkey has really been a gem of a stompbox, as it has a way of rounding off some of the more fizzy amps out there- and I never know what I'm gonna get to choose from :). If I use the Red Llama, it's just to add to the Bad Monkey and really go for a flamethrower sound. Anyway, I thought the M13 would make a great effects option since it allows me to set up some scenes to be all-pre and another scene to be split using the 4-cable method. That way, in case I find something like an Orange AD30 and an Orange 4x12 (woo hoo!), I can use all the gain on tap and still have delay and stuff running in the loop. I'll probably have to add a gig bag or padded case in the future (see below), but for this first trip, I slid the M13 into my suitcase for the flight and then transferred it to a big military backpack once I dropped my luggage off at the hotels. I carried cables with me that would accommodate the M13 in front of the amp or both the loop and the front end.

what was great:
• The ability to blast through a bunch of effects while talking, was HUGE. I'm more of a talking clinician because I want the attendees to learn as opposed to just get a double helping of force-fed notemeal. The M13 continues to make me smile at how easy it is to operate. And operate effectively. Anybody can work a paintbrush- but to be able to create a painting is entirely different. The M13 allows you to operate it (show it off) with expertise after even just a few days of ownership.
• Tuner works great and is accurate enough. We used the tuner for both electric and acoustic, and I was plenty happy across the board.
• Tap tempo has graduated from the "what is not great" to the "oh, yeah, it's pretty bitchin" category. I've been using the tap tempo consistently and feel great about it now. Being able to tap out tempos while talking through guitar tones was stupid easy. Additionally, I mapped out clicks to a few tunes this morning and used a BPM:ms online conversion calculator to set tones and it's a thing of beauty to be able to fine-tune the milliseconds.

what is not great
• I traveled with the M13 in my suitcase and my suitcase was made to be able to carry on. This is a coup for me since I don't trust the airlines in terms of checked luggage (my apologies to anyone employed by the airlines- I've had some bad experiences with items disappearing from luggage). The other thing is I can still have a carry-on personal item (my backpack/laptop) and not have to use one of those two coveted luggage spots with a pedalboard bag or hard case. BUT, I'm still a little cautious of the plastic knobs where the effects parameters are changed. They are protected by metal bars that cross- and we've all gotten used to plastic knobs on the ubiquitous BOSS pedals- but I guess in my head, if one of these M13 knobs breaks off, I'll lose more than one $50 pedal. I'll probably go to Home Depot this week and try to make a little plexiglass screen to velcro over those knobs for fly dates.
• The M13 looks scary to TSA and airline employees. They sniffed it for bomb residue and gave me a slight verbal spanking for not running it through the scanner in its own tray. meh. Don't they realize how long it took my wife to pack those clothes so that they wouldn't wrinkle?!?!
• Since the M13 doesn't have any amp or cab modeling, the sound of the amp comes through nice and clear (which is the single greatest thing about this unit, since I love my Egnater). Having said that, many amps that you would normally find in a store or backline are going to be just as good or bad as they are with no fx. I'm not a huge fan of any of the amps I played this week. If I owned one of them, I would use stompboxes as damage control in front, and that takes trial and error and a sufficient amount of time to dial things in so that the resulting tones are inspiring. In the case of these clinics, I would get to the store at 4pm or so and have to be sitting in front of the attendees a couple of hours later and there wasn't a great deal of time to do damage control on an amp that I'm not crazy about. This really isn't a huge deal as most people will be using the M13 with the amp of their choosing, but it's worth mentioning.


Fly Date Grade: A+

Summary: My first night's rig was stereo Peavey Classic 30's (all effects and OD from the M13 in front of the amp). Holy buckets, stereo amps and effects are like a drug. I just wanted to curl up in the fetal position and suck my thumb. Second night was a Fender Blues Jr. (all OD and FX up front). Third night was a Hughes & Kettner amp (4-cable method, all drive from the amp). Again, I'm not crazy about any of the amps I used, but I was still impressed with how easy it was to get fully giggable tones out of amps that I'm not crazy about. Highlights are the Digital Delay w/ Modulation and the Tube Drive effects. Both are worth the price of the M13. My favorite part of the night was when (either before the clinic or during the break) folks would come up and ask about the "big black box". I ended up doing a little impromptu M13 clinic in Houston to a few guys. "Dear Line 6, please thank the guy who programmed the stock scene title The Edge. That guy and that scene made me look like an effects wizard. Love, dognmoon..." I have to give an A+ because it's the amps that were the impediment to tonal nirvana, not the M13.


Final summary: The M13 is the real deal. Folks who use pedals but have not had any use for POD-style modeling should rethink their relationship with Line 6 and give the M13 a chance. You will read about folks who find fault in the M13 for one reason or another. No single item is going to be the apple of everyone's eye. But (IMO) this unit delivers the effects that I was already using in a way that is more spatially economical, more versatile, and more intelligent than I was currently using them. And it actually costs less than my current board. 10 years ago, I sparked up a little bro-mance with Line 6 as a company based on my love of the Flextone amps, and then I graduated through the Flextones and eventually into PODs and both Vettas. But for the last 5 years or so, I've played nothing but tube amps and have continuously flirted with running PODs in front or in the loop to try to take advantage of the effects without compromising what I loved about my tube amps. Line 6 has done something here that I can't, for the life of me, find fault with. The bro-mance has been rekindled based on the fact that I can enjoy the benefits of both Line 6's progressive technology and the great sonic legacy of tube-driven amplifiers.

[eugewong]

dognmoon,

I am SO getting a M13 now.

Thank you.

[holyears]

I agree totally. I picked one up on Friday, played 3 church services this morning still using my Wah, Turbo Tune, FD2, OCD, VP Jr into the M13 then into a Vox AC-15 - it sounded great. The ease of use and breadth of tones is a breath of fresh air and a burst of excitement in one.
Then tonight I played again and decided to take the plunge and ONLY use the M13 into the AC-15. It was fun having everything in one place, very quick to set-up, and the interesting thing is that I had more compliments on my tone tonight than I did this morning. It would have been better to have an expression pedal for some volume swells, but I'll get it when they send me the free one via rebate. The tuner isn't as precise as my TurboTune (nothing is), but it was still usable for sure - I'd love to know what the actual accuracy percentage is for the built-in tuner.
My biggest recommendation right now for a firmware upgrade would be the option of viewing time in BPM, not only milliseconds. I know they included a conversion chart in the users manual, and I even have a converter application on my iPod, but it would just be more convenient to have the option to choose between BPM or ms. So let's add that to the list please!
Anyway, it's a great tool (or more like a complete set of paintbrushes and paint!). I probably sold at least 3 of them today just showing it off to fellow players. Congrats Line6, good job at creating a product that really meets the needs of players.

[richrenken]

That scene called "One the Edge" was written by Stilwel. He did a great job.

[dognmoon]

That scene called "One the Edge" was written by Stilwel. He did a great job.

I shoulda guessed that. Based on his videos, he's a great tone sculptor. :)

[Andre357]

Ok, I seriously gassing now. Two questions....



1) How goes the DSP bypass sound compared to the true bypass ?? Does it have a quality buffer ( if wanted ) if I use it in DSP mode ??


2) Doe it have any instrument/line level adjustments on the input or output ??



One thing cool about the Time factor I currently own is that I can adjust these levels on the input or output if I like....

I actually boost my signal out of the Timefactor before it goes back to my amp via the loop. Would I be able to this with the M13 ?? Not a deal breaker, But I'm curious....

Thanks !

[jharpersj]

I had one and sent it back, when doing the 4 cable set up it was noisy in the loop, in all cases the modeled efx lacked the depth and complexity of my stomp boxes, for example the phase 90 was like a 1 dimensional picture of my 3 dimensional real phase 90 if that makes any sense at all. Not bad at all but not cool enough for me to want to ditch my "real" stomp boxes.

[jaycee]

For me it's a winner because i'm not a stompbox guru. I've been using the multifx units for years and i get frustrated with them and wind up using very little of the capability. Plus i never wanted to spend a small fortune on 10-15 great boxes, power supply, board, etc. The m13 is a breath of fresh air for me and allows me to experiment with much more ease. I didn't like it so much when i got it out of the box the first time but now that i've had some time to experiment and tweak a little bit, i'm completely sold. I would definitely buy another, it's just what i needed.

[GCDEF]

Ok, I seriously gassing now. Two questions....



1) How goes the DSP bypass sound compared to the true bypass ?? Does it have a quality buffer ( if wanted ) if I use it in DSP mode ??


2) Doe it have any instrument/line level adjustments on the input or output ??



One thing cool about the Time factor I currently own is that I can adjust these levels on the input or output if I like....

I actually boost my signal out of the Timefactor before it goes back to my amp via the loop. Would I be able to this with the M13 ?? Not a deal breaker, But I'm curious....

Thanks !

Some of the effects have output levels, but there are no global level settings.

[richrenken]

Ok, I seriously gassing now. Two questions....



1) How goes the DSP bypass sound compared to the true bypass ?? Does it have a quality buffer ( if wanted ) if I use it in DSP mode ??


2) Doe it have any instrument/line level adjustments on the input or output ??



One thing cool about the Time factor I currently own is that I can adjust these levels on the input or output if I like....

I actually boost my signal out of the Timefactor before it goes back to my amp via the loop. Would I be able to this with the M13 ?? Not a deal breaker, But I'm curious....

Thanks !

Rich, Product Manager for M13 here.

We worked really hard to make the True Bypass be better than any other box out there and then we worked really hard to make the DSP bypass match that. We got real close. The only thing you have to remember is that when you use DSP bypass it takes the capacitance of the cables going from M13 to your amp out of the equation. So if you have a super long cable coming out of it to your amp and you switch from DSP to True bypass, depending on the quality of the cable, you will hear DSP as being brighter and a bit less warm, but what is actually happening is that in True bypass you are rolling off a bit of highs, again, depending on the quality and length of cable. To truly see the diffence, use a very short cable and a/b. Of couse, you have to use a longer cable in practical use.

We didn't give you control over input and output on a instrument/line level basis. We just made it instrument level like stompboxes. Again, overall we wanted to keep it super simple and easy to use.

[Andre357]

What I forgot to mention is that the tap tempo on the M13 is handled nicely. It can be turned on/off per effect (if you want to use millisecond settings instead) and can be used to set the tempo of many effects rather than just for example delays.


What effects does the tap work on to set tempo besides delay ? Does it work on any of the trem models for instance ?? I've read conflicting reports in this thread about that....

[stilwel]

What effects does the tap work on to set tempo besides delay ? Does it work on any of the trem models for instance ?? I've read conflicting reports in this thread about that....

Tap Tempo works on all of the Mod fx except for rotary speaker.

[broknstuff]

Hey rich,

I love the idea of it, and that it is simple to use is one of it's most appealing features to me (I hate having to tweak forever!). With that said , I don't see how having the unit be able to accept line level would have make it that much more complicated for the user. I'm just worried that when using the 4 cable method, which is how I'd like to use it and seems like one of it's intended purposes given it's design, that a hot line level signal from the preamp will clip the unit.

I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, it's just a concern. I'd rather not have to buy a line level shifter and boost it back to use it, kind of keeps it in line level signal. With ease of use in mind, there's always the option of having an auto-calibrated input signal, where you play the loudest/highest signal that you use and then the system automatically damper it down to where it won't clip (like the t.c. nova pedals).

Any use it with a hot effects loop?

[GCDEF]

Hey rich,

I love the idea of it, and that it is simple to use is one of it's most appealing features to me (I hate having to tweak forever!). With that said , I don't see how having the unit be able to accept line level would have make it that much more complicated for the user. I'm just worried that when using the 4 cable method, which is how I'd like to use it and seems like one of it's intended purposes given it's design, that a hot line level signal from the preamp will clip the unit.

I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, it's just a concern. I'd rather not have to buy a line level shifter and boost it back to use it, kind of keeps it in line level signal. With ease of use in mind, there's always the option of having an auto-calibrated input signal, where you play the loudest/highest signal that you use and then the system automatically damper it down to where it won't clip (like the t.c. nova pedals).

Any use it with a hot effects loop?

My amps have an loop or preamp out/power amp in. I use the pre/power ins and outs and don't notice any problems with it.

[Andre357]

Hey rich,

I love the idea of it, and that it is simple to use is one of it's most appealing features to me (I hate having to tweak forever!). With that said , I don't see how having the unit be able to accept line level would have make it that much more complicated for the user. I'm just worried that when using the 4 cable method, which is how I'd like to use it and seems like one of it's intended purposes given it's design, that a hot line level signal from the preamp will clip the unit.

I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, it's just a concern. I'd rather not have to buy a line level shifter and boost it back to use it, kind of keeps it in line level signal. With ease of use in mind, there's always the option of having an auto-calibrated input signal, where you play the loudest/highest signal that you use and then the system automatically damper it down to where it won't clip (like the t.c. nova pedals).

Any use it with a hot effects loop?

Good post - do you who know makes a line level shifter to boost a signal at the end of a signal chain ?? Are you just talking about a clean boost or is there a product specifically made as a " line level shifter .....boost "

Thanks man.

The loop in my budda's I believe are instrument levels so this would work fine, but when using my Time factor in the budda loop i like having the input at instrument level and the output at line level.......it's a nice on all the time clean boost when I need it at some gigs. And then I have foorswtichable clean boost I use for certain things on top of that ( solos for instance )...

So I guess the bottom line is, I agree, it would have been a nice feature.

But perhaps this Line boost shifter you mention would do the trick ( assuming it's completly transparent )

[Andre357]

Tap Tempo works on all of the Mod fx except for rotary speaker.


excellent thanks ! Looking over the advanced manual on the line 6 site I didn't see any mention of it....

On the trem - are there any subdivisions on the trem ( so the throb/chop comes out two or four time faster than my tap input for exampls ) ???

[stilwel]

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-2Channel-Line-Level-Shifter?sku=189100

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/1/8/4/486184.jpg

[stilwel]

excellent thanks ! Looking over the advanced manual on the line 6 site I didn't see any mention of it....

On the trem - are there any subdivisions on the trem ( so the throb/chop comes out two or four time faster than my tap input for exampls ) ???

Yes, you have the same rhythmic subdivisions as the delay.

[Andre357]

Yes, you have the same rhythmic subdivisions as the delay.


Sweet !

I assume you can turn tap off or on independantly for each effect, or have it be " global " ??

( sorry for all the questions, I'm so close to flipping the switch on one of these and running it with my Cot 50 and Eternity )

[richrenken]

Sweet !

I assume you can turn tap off or on independantly for each effect, or have it be " global " ??

( sorry for all the questions, I'm so close to flipping the switch on one of these and running it with my Cot 50 and Eternity )

Yes, it is independent for each effect. Just like Delay, you turn the knob fully clockwise to switch back and forth. Also, there is Tap Tempo for many of the filter effects as well.

[richrenken]

Hey rich,

I love the idea of it, and that it is simple to use is one of it's most appealing features to me (I hate having to tweak forever!). With that said , I don't see how having the unit be able to accept line level would have make it that much more complicated for the user. I'm just worried that when using the 4 cable method, which is how I'd like to use it and seems like one of it's intended purposes given it's design, that a hot line level signal from the preamp will clip the unit.

I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, it's just a concern. I'd rather not have to buy a line level shifter and boost it back to use it, kind of keeps it in line level signal. With ease of use in mind, there's always the option of having an auto-calibrated input signal, where you play the loudest/highest signal that you use and then the system automatically damper it down to where it won't clip (like the t.c. nova pedals).

Any use it with a hot effects loop?

So sorry if I misspoke. The reason we didn't do the switches for line/instrument was mainly cost. We wanted to keep this unit at the price of two of the four button modelers. And also, just wanted to keep this product simple. Hint hint... more products to come.

[cosmos]

Hint hint... more products to come.

Hey Rich,
is it thinkable that you're also releasing this as a rack version? Or are you referring to different products?

[Andre357]

So sorry if I misspoke. The reason we didn't do the switches for line/instrument was mainly cost. We wanted to keep this unit at the price of two of the four button modelers. And also, just wanted to keep this product simple. Hint hint... more products to come.


Well all you sons of a B*@%$es gave me such G.A.S. I just ordered one. It should be here tomorrow......

I'll post my findings after a few days and a gig or two.....

I'm really looking to simplify... One guitar, amp, and small effects board....plug in and be done with it...

[broknstuff]

Thanks for the response rich. I guess it was a mix of words, as it would obviously involve more on the development side to include that. If the m13 is an indication of future products I really like where you guys are headed. People haven't seem to had a problem with the loop, so I still may give this a shot. The clips stilwel has done are hard to argue with!

[broknstuff]

Andre, as stilwel posted the ebtech line level shifter is the product that would do that. I haven't had to use one yet but it's what you would use if you needed that application. I don't know of other products that do that, but that's probably because I've never looked into it.

[Andre357]

Andre, as stilwel posted the ebtech line level shifter is the product that would do that. I haven't had to use one yet but it's what you would use if you needed that application. I don't know of other products that do that, but that's probably because I've never looked into it.


cool, thanks man. I'll see how it does in my budda loop first which is instrument level or " unity " so to speak. But I may look into that ebtech.

I like the idea of being able to boost the return send to line level as I mentioned on occasion. It seems to give me more clean headroom out my amplifier.

Thanks Again

[Andre357]

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/1/8/4/486184.jpg (javascript: popup_multi_image('/document?cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&base_pid=189100&index=0', 700, 507);)

Hey, this could be perfect actually, I could mount it right under my PT 2....

It's passive so needs no power.........cool. Costs about $75.

Just wanted to post a picture to those that may be interested.

Not sure sure if I need it yet, but good to know it's available.

[richrenken]

Hey Rich,
is it thinkable that you're also releasing this as a rack version? Or are you referring to different products?


Um, well, I, hhhmm, can't really say. That is one idea for sure. It is all about pitching and timing and all that.

[Andre357]

Um, well, I, hhhmm, can't really say. That is one idea for sure. It is all about pitching and timing and all that.


Don't forget about that M6.5 someone posted ( via photoshop ) in another Line 6 thread !

That would be fantastic :cool:

[dognmoon]

Don't forget about that M6.5 someone posted ( via photoshop ) in another Line 6 thread !

That would be fantastic :cool:

do you have a link to that? I loves me some good photoshop work. :)

[Andre357]

do you have a link to that? I loves me some good photoshop work. :)


Here's the photo:

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll248/stratman34/Random/M6_5.jpg

Heres the whole link that contains the photo's author ( he posts some other cool pictures as well ! )

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=435222&highlight=line+6+M13

[stilwel]

I took it a step further.....

http://i38.tinypic.com/2z9041x.jpg

[Andre357]

I took it a step further.....

http://i38.tinypic.com/2z9041x.jpg

Fantastic ! That would be so, so cool.....

Line 6, are you listening ??;)

[plato67]

The pedal would have to be better quality than Line 6 currently offers...

[raginghonkies]

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/1/8/4/486184.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>: popup_multi_image('/document?cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&base_pid=189100&index=0', 700, 507);)

Hey, this could be perfect actually, I could mount it right under my PT 2....

It's passive so needs no power.........cool. Costs about $75.

Just wanted to post a picture to those that may be interested.

Not sure sure if I need it yet, but good to know it's available.


the Loop of my OD100 SE+ amp is line level , could i use instrument level pedals with this Morley Box in the loop of my OD100 ? How do you connect ? Not sure to have the idea ...

[troykennedy]

Hey Rich,
Any chance the firmware update could include a BPM function?
That is the only reason I have hung onto my DD20 at this point. Whaddya think?

You know what else would be sweet? If you could use the volume pedal function via the expression pedal without taking up one of the 4 spots. Sort of a global function you could insert in the chain.

[richrenken]

Hey Rich,
Any chance the firmware update could include a BPM function?
That is the only reason I have hung onto my DD20 at this point. Whaddya think?

You know what else would be sweet? If you could use the volume pedal function via the expression pedal without taking up one of the 4 spots. Sort of a global function you could insert in the chain.

Hey brohiem,

We can't get the bpm function in there. That is why I made sure you can fine tune the ms. After you have the delay time close, you press and hold tap and immediately turn the ms knob to go in 1ms increments. To get bpms, you have to be a bit old school and look up a ms to bpm chart.

As far as global volume pedal. It takes DSP to run it, so it would be as if you are running 5 effects. We are running the DSP at the outer rails so there is no room to run a global Volume. We did think of it. Almost left out the volume pedal option, but some guys only use a few effects and some guys like me only use it once in a while, like with Octo Verb.

Peace,

[troykennedy]

Yeah, I figured that was the case. It was worth asking.

I still love it. For me the global tap was worth the price of admission.

Who did the Police scene? Very cool.

Love the U2 stuff stilwel programmed. Hey stilwel, were there any particular songs you have the various effects programmed for. (besides the obvious Streets/Bad stuff) I think I guessed a couple of them. Would be fun to hear what you were thinking.

[dognmoon]

Love the U2 stuff stilwel programmed. Hey stilwel, were there any particular songs you have the various effects programmed for. (besides the obvious Streets/Bad stuff) I think I guessed a couple of them. Would be fun to hear what you were thinking.

The top row together sounds like Mysterious Ways...

[Andre357]

Mine is " out for delivery "...............I'll put it through it's paces tonight.

Bought it from americanmusical.com with the three easy payment, no interest plan.


No affiliation, just thought I'd mention it because it's a cool way to buy stuff like this and split up the payments with no interest .....

[Andre357]

Ok, mine came in, I'm at the " day job " and can't try it till tonight.

Looking it at it , it has these small octogonal imprints across the top panel under the top row of knobs and then a couple on the side. Like a faint, stamp like impression in the metal They are equidistant from each other. Two under each top row of knobs then a couple off to the side.

Do any other owners have these on their units ?? I haven't noticed this in pictures. Not a big deal ( they almost look like they belong there because they're uniform ) , but I'm wondering If mine is marred or they all look like this ?

Assuming I dig the sounds I'll return it for one without these imprints if the marks aren't the norm ( just don't want to hurt resale or trade in value down the road ).

Again they're minor but there, could you guys check or could Rich chime in ??

I would appreciate it !

[dognmoon]

yup- both of mine had/have those. I think they're the footprint for the standoffs within the unit.

Not to worry...

[stilwel]

Like DnM said, they are from the internal standoffs....every single M13 will have those.

[Andre357]

Thanks guys ! That's good to know, as I mentioned they are faint and actually look like they belong, but wanted to check.

Something tells me it will be a late night tonight :D

[cosmos]

We can't get the bpm function in there. That is why I made sure you can fine tune the ms.

Hey Rich,

that's too bad. With the DD20 you can just select MS or BPM. Is it really that hard to incorporate this?

[DavidE]

Mine is on order from Music123. They don't have a delivery date as they're currently out, but I just hope they deliver before the free expression pedal deal is done!

[DavidE]

How is it with an acoustic guitar? It could replace my acoustic board (tuner, chorus, reverb, looper delay......) if it sounds right with an acoustic....

I have a Line6 Variax Acoustic 700, Ibanez Montage, Ovations, Martins, Taylors etc....

[Mincer]

It sounds amazing with my adamas...I use the red comp model, the dimension d, and the plate reverb setting. it replaced my acoustic looping pedalboard.

[richrenken]

Ok, mine came in, I'm at the " day job " and can't try it till tonight.

Looking it at it , it has these small octogonal imprints across the top panel under the top row of knobs and then a couple on the side. Like a faint, stamp like impression in the metal They are equidistant from each other. Two under each top row of knobs then a couple off to the side.

Do any other owners have these on their units ?? I haven't noticed this in pictures. Not a big deal ( they almost look like they belong there because they're uniform ) , but I'm wondering If mine is marred or they all look like this ?

Assuming I dig the sounds I'll return it for one without these imprints if the marks aren't the norm ( just don't want to hurt resale or trade in value down the road ).

Again they're minor but there, could you guys check or could Rich chime in ??

I would appreciate it !

Those are standoffs that are used to mount all the pcb inside. You can do it a couple different ways. The way we went is economical, to keep the price down. They are normal.

[richrenken]

Hey Rich,

that's too bad. With the DD20 you can just select MS or BPM. Is it really that hard to incorporate this?

It is. So sorry. But again, that is why I did make sure we can fine tune the milliseconds so you can dial in the BPM. The web has many great websites that have a millisecond to bpm converter. There is also a mathematical formula that you can use with your phone's calculator.

I will keep this in mind for future products.

[cosmos]

It is. So sorry. But again, that is why I did make sure we can fine tune the milliseconds so you can dial in the BPM. The web has many great websites that have a millisecond to bpm converter. There is also a mathematical formula that you can use with your phone's calculator.
I will keep this in mind for future products.

I understand, but when I'm in the rehearsalroom and our drummer tells me that a song is 120 BPM, I don't have the time or option to go to a website, convert it and then set it up...

[broknstuff]

I understand, but when I'm in the rehearsalroom and our drummer tells me that a song is 120 BPM, I don't have the time or option to go to a website, convert it and then set it up...

tap tempo?

[cosmos]

tap tempo?
For some songs: yes.
For the ones where (for I example) I start playing alone, it's convenient to have to correct presets with the right BPMs at hand.

[GCDEF]

I understand, but when I'm in the rehearsalroom and our drummer tells me that a song is 120 BPM, I don't have the time or option to go to a website, convert it and then set it up...

It's not really hard. 60 / bpm. For 120 that would be 60 / 120 = .5, or 500 ms.

[Jimi D]

It is. So sorry. But again, that is why I did make sure we can fine tune the milliseconds so you can dial in the BPM. The web has many great websites that have a millisecond to bpm converter. There is also a mathematical formula that you can use with your phone's calculator.
I'm fascinated... I mean, I admit that I know nothing at all about your interface or effects software design, but as a programmer I can't for the life of me understand why this would be impossible, or even that difficult. It's not like you have to re-write the effects algo's to recognize BPM... why can't you just write a little plugin for the interface layer that would change the screen display slightly and do the BPM->ms conversion for the effect's properties input?

[heavypick]

I know they're different animals but why would the M13 be preferable to the POD X3 Live for live use? The X3 has the USB interface, which is really useful. I ask because I'm thinking about the M13 as well. Maybe this issue has been discussed here already but I haven't gone through all 25 pages.

[Scooter]

I'd really like to hear some clips of this, especially unprocessed distortions and overdrives. There seems to be a lot of excitement about this unit amongst players who use a lot of delay, looping, and heavily processed sounds, but I'm interested to know how natural the dirty sounds are. I tend to use delays and modulations pretty sparingly, but it's good to hear that this unit apparently has that part of things covered.

[Andre357]

ok, my M13 came in yesterday from americanmusical.com and I put it through some paces last night....just straight out of the box in front of the amp....didn't even crack open the manual ( since i felt I knew how to use from participating in this thread the last week or so )

As gassed as I was about this product, for the first time in a very, very long time a product has EXCEEDED my expectations.


First of all , it is truly as BUTT simple as Line 6 claims. Loading scenes and changing parameters, the looper, turning effects on and off, using tap tempo - everything is intuitive and user friendly. I could have gigged with it out of the box with about 5- 10 minutes of setting up a few go to sounds in one of the scenes - it's that simple.

It felt substantial and pro if that makes sense. Seems like a manufacturing upgrade over previous Line 6 Products I've used.

The volume levels of the effects ( I had a big fear of volume drops or jumps because of previous issues with the DL4, MM4 and echopark ) sounded perfect just running through the different effects in different scenes ( I just went throught the factory presets and scenes last night with minimal tweaking ). The delays, verbs, chorus and trems in particular are excellent....even better than I expected. Just sounded great with my amp ( I use Budda's ) This could be the " DL4 Ultimate " if you were to use it for just delays, verbs and chorus for instance.

The true bypass sounded great and when I kicked in the effect, I felt I was getting my core tone, then my core tone with delay's verbs etc....It didn't seem to impart a change in tone when kicking in a delay for instance. I was very impressed by that, and as mentioned it sounded actually better than I was expecting. My initial impression is that it sounds as good, if not better than my timefactor ( which is a great delay ).

All in all I could tell shortly after using this and listening carefully, this device is most certainly a keeper and could change my whole set up and pedal board within days.


Last night I mainly focused on the delays, verbs, chorus sounds and trem sounds...also fooled around with the Boost comp ( which will be very handy and sounded very good ).

Haven't even tried in my effects loop, I'll try that tonight.

I just quickly played with some of the wilder filter models and distortions....quick impression was I'll eventually find many useful special effects in there.....but they are special effects. Clearly, a deep reservoir of idea generating noises and soundscapes are there for those looking for that sort of thing.

I didn't hear any od's that I thought would replace my Cot 50/Eternity set up, but i certainly need to give them more time and fine tune those settings.....but I did hear some cool fuzzes and sicker souding distortions right out of the gate that combined with one of the synth filter patches will be a great special effect for one solo a night or something....

I bought this mainly for the delays, verbs and modulation sounds anyway and my initial feeling was that those alone are worth the price of admission.

I'll post some follow up impressions after gigging with it this weekend....

I think I could gig with this, a cot 50 and an eternity ( or similar high quality OD's ) and have a blast...

[Andre357]

I'd really like to hear some clips of this, especially unprocessed distortions and overdrives. There seems to be a lot of excitement about this unit amongst players who use a lot of delay, looping, and heavily processed sounds, but I'm interested to know how natural the dirty sounds are. I tend to use delays and modulations pretty sparingly, but it's good to hear that this unit apparently has that part of things covered.\


I'll try to do that for you or maybe stillwell will volunteer ( his clips helped me to buy this )...

My quick impression was that there's a lot of possibilty with them....the tube drive and tube screamer models sounded very usable.

I gig with crummy backline amps sometimes ( in particular a shrill sounding twin at a casino we play occasionaly )..........and it was apparent to me quickly I could bring the M13 and be very happy.

What's cool is that the od / dist models give you more control over the EQ than the originals they are modeled after ( the tube screamer has a tone, treble and bass parameters for instance )...

I quickly dialed in a usable lead sound with the boost comp and screamer effects.

But as I mentioned in my initial review, I wont be giving up my eternity and Cot 50 anytime soon..... But I did hear a fuzz tone that sounded great stacked with my eternity last night for instance ( so I probably will give up my lovepedal 200Lb :) )

[richrenken]

I'm fascinated... I mean, I admit that I know nothing at all about your interface or effects software design, but as a programmer I can't for the life of me understand why this would be impossible, or even that difficult. It's not like you have to re-write the effects algo's to recognize BPM... why can't you just write a little plugin for the interface layer that would change the screen display slightly and do the BPM->ms conversion for the effect's properties input?

Agreed. It was all those factors and also the idea of keeping it BUTT simple.

[richrenken]

\


I'll try to do that for you or maybe stillwell will volunteer ( his clips helped me to buy this )...

My quick impression was that there's a lot of possibilty with them....the tube drive and tube screamer models sounded very usable.

I gig with crummy backline amps sometimes ( in particular a shrill sounding twin at a casino we play occasionaly )..........and it was apparent to me quickly I could bring the M13 and be very happy.

What's cool is that the od / dist models give you more control over the EQ than the originals they are modeled after ( the tube screamer has a tone, treble and bass parameters for instance )...

I quickly dialed in a usable lead sound with the boost comp and screamer effects.

But as I mentioned in my initial review, I wont be giving up my eternity and Cot 50 anytime soon..... But I did hear a fuzz tone that sounded great stacked with my eternity last night for instance ( so I probably will give up my lovepedal 200Lb :) )

I would go to YouTube and search stilwel and then listen to his clips.

I would also go to our website and check out the clips I did with a buddy of mine, Dwayne Larring. We use a couple guitars into a Divided by 13 into a nice preamp. The first clip is the guitar into the D/13 with no effects. We didn't touch the amp or preamp or gain or anything at all for the sound clips. All you hear is what the M13 did. Check out the Screamer, Tube Drive and Colordrive clips. Pretty fun. Kinda shocked me even.

[eugewong]

I just picked 1 up over lunch, and in the 10 mins that I played with it in the store, all I can say is WOW!

A cool thing that I really did not think possible was, that you can place the effects in ANY combination, ANY where. I was under the impression that if you had to have the same type of EFX on each block. eg. BLK 1, all mods, BLK 2, all Reverbs...etc. But it's not!

And it truly is butt simple. I was messing around with sounds and scenes and all within 2 mins of touching the unit.

I'm going to really have some fun with this over the weekend!

[JC-Tonequest]

I currently have an Axess MFC5 midi footcontroller. It has always worked great for me in the past. I just recently got a Line 6 M13 and I am having problems with the MFC5 controlling the M13. The M13 accepts midi Program Changes to call up any of the 12 scenes it has and it also accepts midi Control Changes to turn off any of the 12 effects that are in a particular scene. The problem with the MFC5 is that it sends midi CC's first then midi PC's and doing it in this order overrides the PC's override the CC's. Mario at Axess is going to work on the firmware in the MFC5 to fix this issue when he gets time (he's a busy guy so who knows how long that will be). My second problem with the MFC5 is it can only send 8 CC's. I would like it to be able send 12 CC's so that I can turn on/off any off the 12 effects in a particular scene on the M13. I asked Mario if he could add 4 more but I doubt he will be able to.
Do any of you know of another small footprint midi foot controller that sends PC's before CC's as it should and has at least 12 CC's? I need it to be about the size of the the Axess because I don't have much space on my board.
Thanks,
JC

[Andre357]

I just picked 1 up over lunch, and in the 10 mins that I played with it in the store, all I can say is WOW!

A cool thing that I really did not think possible was, that you can place the effects in ANY combination, ANY where. I was under the impression that if you had to have the same type of EFX on each block. eg. BLK 1, all mods, BLK 2, all Reverbs...etc. But it's not!

And it truly is butt simple. I was messing around with sounds and scenes and all within 2 mins of touching the unit.

I'm going to really have some fun with this over the weekend!


Yes, that was a nice suprise to me as well, I thought the same as you before receiving mine.

Also, last night ( I just got mine a couple of days ago ) I tried mine in the loop of my main amp, a Budda SDII 18, and it sounded fantastic. No additional noise and uniform volume. Really worked flawlessly.

So for those with Budda's- FYI, The M13 works perfectlty in the effects loop....

[Andre357]

Rich Renken,

One thing I wish sounded better on the M13. The auto "swell" volume echo effect is not as good sounding as on the DL4, by quite a large margin.

It's like you cant get it to swell long enough to get the same ethereal effect as on the DL4. It ramps up to quickly even on the longest setting, and you can hear the strike or attack of the guitar too quickly. In other words it just doesn't respond like the DL4 unfortunately ( If I remember right even the echo park I once owned swelled more smoothly and slowly creating a more convincing "pad " )

Every other delay effect is much better than the Dl4 ( and many other delays ) IMHO except this one.

Will this be addressed with a software update ???

PLEASE, PLEASE, tell me it will be.....This is a great effect on the Dl4 and loved by many.......

Thanks man. Let us know ( and it's great your answering questions and addressing issue here ! )

[richrenken]

Rich Renken,

One thing I wish sounded better on the M13. The auto "swell" volume echo effect is not as good sounding as on the DL4, by quite a large margin.

It's like you cant get it to swell long enough to get the same ethereal effect as on the DL4. It ramps up to quickly even on the longest setting, and you can hear the strike or attack of the guitar too quickly. In other words it just doesn't respond like the DL4 unfortunately ( If I remember right even the echo park I once owned swelled more smoothly and slowly creating a more convincing "pad " )

Every other delay effect is much better than the Dl4 ( and many other delays ) IMHO except this one.

Will this be addressed with a software update ???

PLEASE, PLEASE, tell me it will be.....This is a great effect on the Dl4 and loved by many.......

Thanks man. Let us know ( and it's great your answering questions and addressing issue here ! )

Yes. I am in the process of showing the team. I hear it too and someone posted about it on our forums as well.

[Andre357]

Yes. I am in the process of showing the team. I hear it too and someone posted about it on our forums as well.


EXCELLENT MAN !! That would be great to fine tune that effect....

Good news indeed :AOK

Thanks for the quick response !

[dognmoon]

EXCELLENT MAN !! That would be great to fine tune that effect....

Good news indeed :AOK

Thanks for the quick response !

I love the Echo Park, but the reason I keep the Green Machine (DL4) on my pedalboard is for the perfection of the swell effect. I used that effect at every gig. I just worked it in all the time because it worked so well and made me look like a guitar star. People would always say "I loved the violin sound", or "I loved that french horn thing you were doing", or "was that a cello you were playing?"- to which I always reply, "Bill Cosby said it best- there's always room for cello...".

So far, I hadn't noticed a huge issue with it being too fast of an attack on the M13 version, but I'm always happy to have a slower ramp rate to work with.

But I agree, man, that auto-swell effect is money in the bank.

[i8guitar]

Just a PSA to everyone who buys a M13 before October 31, 2008: Make sure you know that Line 6 is offering a free EX-1 expression pedal ($69.99 value) with purchase of DL4™, MM4™, DM4™, FM4™ or M13 Stompbox Modeler.

More info and rebate form is found here: http://line6.com/news/offers/699

I specifically asked the staff at Guitar Center about this when I bought my M13 (because I knew Sweetwater was advertising it), and they knew nothing about it.

[Ditch Gator]

Looks like Line 6 has come up with what I've been waiting for.:AOK
Mr. Cornish's boards are really nice...but pricey.
Same for Mr. Bradshaws.
I know that the M13 isn't exactly the same as these examples, but it's close enough for me.
First I have to sell my effects and board before I can get my M13.:puh
Orders from my better half.
Oh well. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.:)

[dognmoon]

First I have to sell my effects and board before I can get my M13.:puh
Orders from my better half.
Oh well. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.:)

a man after my own heart. But just think, sell the old stuff and then you get the girl, and the bitchin' rig. :)

[Ditch Gator]

a man after my own heart. But just think, sell the old stuff and then you get the girl, and the bitchin' rig. :)

How true:BEER

[dr.morton]

Just a PSA to everyone who buys a M13 before October 31, 2008: Make sure you know that Line 6 is offering a free EX-1 expression pedal ($69.99 value) with purchase of DL4™, MM4™, DM4™, FM4™ or M13 Stompbox Modeler.

More info and rebate form is found here: http://line6.com/news/offers/699

I specifically asked the staff at Guitar Center about this when I bought my M13 (because I knew Sweetwater was advertising it), and they knew nothing about it.

But they don't do this outside of the US which makes me angry. :BITCH
I already bought a unit and got nothing. That is fine customer support for those who help getting things started...
But the one I'll get won't be Line 6!!!

[eugewong]

FYI, here's a little 'tip' I stumbled upon today for all of you who would like to use the expression pedal as a volume pedal without sacrificing 1 EFX block.

Set the volume pedal to control the output of whichever Drive effect you have on. I just tried it and it works like a charm.

You still need to have a drive effect on... but at least it's not wasted as a dedicated stomp button just for volume pedal duties.

[troykennedy]

Great idea!! You could even do that with a compressor in the mix.

FYI, here's a little 'tip' I stumbled upon today for all of you who would like to use the expression pedal as a volume pedal without sacrificing 1 EFX block.

Set the volume pedal to control the output of whichever Drive effect you have on. I just tried it and it works like a charm.

You still need to have a drive effect on... but at least it's not wasted as a dedicated stomp button just for volume pedal duties.

[briaNsr]

has anyone gotten a lemon?.. ive read it looks really sturdy from the outside, but when opened its all cheap plastic switches and pots mounted on the PCB and not replaceable if broken... and some units that stopped working with less than a day of use

i read that on the net.. not from a really reliable source though...

line6 claims its super-duty and all metal construction, and i don't think they'll sell you something other than what they promote..

so what about reliability? im not really a gear abuser.. but you know how things get on stage... and i wouldn't buy something ill have to treat like a porcelain doll...

give me your opinions

[jaycee]

There's going to be lemons in everything you can buy. Just gotta play the odds. I've heard stories both good and bad about this unit but i've never had any trouble with other line 6 stuff. My pod xt live was submerged in a two foot basement flood. Dried it out and worked fine. My M13 is going well and it better stay that way because i'm gigging with it for the first time tonight!

[briaNsr]

i heard of a lady that survived a plane crash and fell a couple thousand feet and shes still kicking.. but thats something else

that pod of yours surely is a heavent-sent .. but you know thers a lot of stories of line6s crapping out, and i wanted to make sure of the construction standards on this gear.. line6 says theyve upgraded from previous gear, but users on the net beg to differ.. so is it really (PCB mounted, not replaceable) plastic switches/pots under the metal or is it real heavy duty and road worthy?

[eugewong]

Wife is pissed coz I spent all weekend with my 'blinky lights'... but here it is! I think it sounds great! and really easy to use too.

First time I've put together a pedal train thing too.. :)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/eugewong/IMG_1920.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/eugewong/IMG_1922.jpg

[plato67]

Eugene, how are you powering the M13?

[CBeeper]

Any way to allow the tap tempo switch to toggle between fast and slow speeds when you use the Rotary Drum and Rotary Drum and Horn settings?

[stilwel]

Any way to allow the tap tempo switch to toggle between fast and slow speeds when you use the Rotary Drum and Rotary Drum and Horn settings?

No, but you can do that by using the exp pedal.

You could also rig up a footswitch and plug it into one of the exp pedal jacks to simulate quickly switching between heel and toe.

[CBeeper]

Very cool thanks....

[Eliguitar]

Is that the pedaltrain 2 or the pedaltrain pro?
Just trying to get a better idea of its size.

Thanks

[dognmoon]

Is that the pedaltrain 2 or the pedaltrain pro?
Just trying to get a better idea of its size.

Thanks

I don't remember which number it is, but earlier in this thread I posted 4 pictures of the M13 next to my PT2 current (er... I should say ex-)board.

[Eliguitar]

Ah ok I havent looked through all the pages.

Thanks

[espechemode]

A few other things that could do with updates:

Octoverb setting clips slightly
Pitch Vibrato boosts volume and some of the modulation fx drop the volume
Echo Platter model needs to have more repeats available. I know the EVENTIDE TIME FACTOR (OH SNAP) had some models updated to increase feedback on the repeats.

[Waxhead]

I would go to YouTube and search stilwel and then listen to his clips.

I would also go to our website and check out the clips I did with a buddy of mine, Dwayne Larring. We use a couple guitars into a Divided by 13 into a nice preamp. The first clip is the guitar into the D/13 with no effects. We didn't touch the amp or preamp or gain or anything at all for the sound clips. All you hear is what the M13 did. Check out the Screamer, Tube Drive and Colordrive clips. Pretty fun. Kinda shocked me even.


So Rich Renken - Product Manager from Line 6 Corp, when asked if there's any decent sound clips for this M13, tells us punters on TPG to go search "stilwell" on Youtube.

Well I did that and found that all of Stilwel clip's demoing the M13's effects (excepting the Looper) had a very brief connection description attached which states that the M13 was plugged into an AXE-FX. Stilwel also briefly states that the AXE-FX does nothing to the sound. If that's true then why bother plugging the M13 into it ??? There's no other description of how the tones are produced.

Now the marketing Gurus at Line 6 may think this is gonna fool a newbie, or some other dunce, but to the experienced muso, or even the wary consumer, this just looks like a fraud.
Am I as easily shocked as Rich is - No
Is this normal marketing practice - Yes.
Should we be very very suspicious when Marketing Execs start posting on non affiliated websites like TGP - ABSOLUTELY.

But as Rich points out you can also listen to clips of the M13 on the Line 6 website. If you wanna believe how they allegedly produced the tones for the Line 6 clips then good luck to ya.

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

[eugewong]

Eugene, how are you powering the M13?

Hi Plato,

I've got a regular power extension strip/power block zip tied to the underside of the Pedaltrain. The Line 6 adaptor is under the pedaltrain too, right next to it.

I couldn't get the OneSpot to fit under, so I had to improvise and McGyver it a little, which is why the OneSpot if on the top. I've actually got 2 power strips under the board) Visually it looks a little tight, but operationally, it's alright.

This is a PT2 by the way.

[dognmoon]

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

I agree that any user would be well-advised to test any new piece of gear with their own rig to see if it compliments their signal chain and/or playing style.

In regards to the "super happy consumers" who are "saying very little specific about the unit"- did you have any specific questions that I could help answer (I'm speaking as one of the Super Happy Customers)? Some others may have the same questions/ concerns as you and it may be for the common good to be more specific about the review points.

[holyears]

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

Wow - let the conspiracy theories begin. Seems to me, most of the people "singing it's praises" have been members of this board quite a long time, I would highly doubt they're Line6 mercenaries. But true, I think you should try something out with your set-up to see if it's what you need, or just try it and return it if you don't like it, no big deal. It's not like Line6 is running a Nigerian banking scam. :rolleyes:

[Mincer]

I'm super happy with mine. You can ask me questions too, or come see me live and hear it.

[radcliff]

From what I've been reading, it seems like every time you make a change or a tempo change with an effect - it saves that change.

So that when you come back to an effect, it shows up as what was last there.

This is different from the DL4. But better.

Also, is there any kind of Global tap setting? So you can have some presets with a Global tempo and others with a Set tempo?

[stilwel]

So Rich Renken - Product Manager from Line 6 Corp, when asked if there's any decent sound clips for this M13, tells us punters on TPG to go search "stilwell" on Youtube.

Well I did that and found that all of Stilwel clip's demoing the M13's effects (excepting the Looper) had a very brief connection description attached which states that the M13 was plugged into an AXE-FX. Stilwel also briefly states that the AXE-FX does nothing to the sound. If that's true then why bother plugging the M13 into it ??? There's no other description of how the tones are produced.

Now the marketing Gurus at Line 6 may think this is gonna fool a newbie, or some other dunce, but to the experienced muso, or even the wary consumer, this just looks like a fraud.
Am I as easily shocked as Rich is - No
Is this normal marketing practice - Yes.
Should we be very very suspicious when Marketing Execs start posting on non affiliated websites like TGP - ABSOLUTELY.

But as Rich points out you can also listen to clips of the M13 on the Line 6 website. If you wanna believe how they allegedly produced the tones for the Line 6 clips then good luck to ya.

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

Hello...stilwel, the fraud here. This post has me laughing hysterically this morning.

I fail to see the conspiracy here, but here goes.

I do NOT work for Line 6. I am NOT associated with them in any way whatsoever. I'm just a guy who plays guitar that lives in the Chicago area. I own an Axe-Fx. It's killer. As I stated in the video description of several of my YouTube clips, in all of my clips I plugged my guitar, either strat or Jazzmaster straight into the M13. The M13 output was then plugged into my Axe-Fx rig. I do this because I do NOT own a regular guitar amp. I've always been a rack and fx kind of guy so my ONLY option is to plug the M13 into my Axe-Fx, which is set to a CLEAN Fender Vibroverb amp model, and that is literally all you're hearing.

All of the fx you're hearing are coming from the M13.

I will agree with you on one thing though, as with ANY piece of gear you should try it out for yourself and not take anyone's word for it.

BTW: Waxhead, you need to lay off the coffee man.

[GCDEF]

So Rich Renken - Product Manager from Line 6 Corp, when asked if there's any decent sound clips for this M13, tells us punters on TPG to go search "stilwell" on Youtube.

Well I did that and found that all of Stilwel clip's demoing the M13's effects (excepting the Looper) had a very brief connection description attached which states that the M13 was plugged into an AXE-FX. Stilwel also briefly states that the AXE-FX does nothing to the sound. If that's true then why bother plugging the M13 into it ??? There's no other description of how the tones are produced.

Now the marketing Gurus at Line 6 may think this is gonna fool a newbie, or some other dunce, but to the experienced muso, or even the wary consumer, this just looks like a fraud.
Am I as easily shocked as Rich is - No
Is this normal marketing practice - Yes.
Should we be very very suspicious when Marketing Execs start posting on non affiliated websites like TGP - ABSOLUTELY.

But as Rich points out you can also listen to clips of the M13 on the Line 6 website. If you wanna believe how they allegedly produced the tones for the Line 6 clips then good luck to ya.

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

Why do Australians chop off the ends of words and add "o" in its place? Sounds kind of goofy, as does the rest of your post.

What's really happening here is Line 6 has come out with the best multi-fx I've ever seen and the only one I'd even want to use, and a lot of us are very pleased with it and enjoy talking about it.

[Andre357]

So Rich Renken - Product Manager from Line 6 Corp, when asked if there's any decent sound clips for this M13, tells us punters on TPG to go search "stilwell" on Youtube.

Well I did that and found that all of Stilwel clip's demoing the M13's effects (excepting the Looper) had a very brief connection description attached which states that the M13 was plugged into an AXE-FX. Stilwel also briefly states that the AXE-FX does nothing to the sound. If that's true then why bother plugging the M13 into it ??? There's no other description of how the tones are produced.

Now the marketing Gurus at Line 6 may think this is gonna fool a newbie, or some other dunce, but to the experienced muso, or even the wary consumer, this just looks like a fraud.
Am I as easily shocked as Rich is - No
Is this normal marketing practice - Yes.
Should we be very very suspicious when Marketing Execs start posting on non affiliated websites like TGP - ABSOLUTELY.

But as Rich points out you can also listen to clips of the M13 on the Line 6 website. If you wanna believe how they allegedly produced the tones for the Line 6 clips then good luck to ya.

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.


This is riduculous IMHO......... Have you even tried one ?? Or you just ranting without having ever heard one in person ?? Of course your entitled to your opinion, but I give it little weight unless you own or have tried one.

I for one LOVE THE FACT that Rich is posting here.... We've been able to point out little bugs , etc. and Rich has been cool enough to answer us.

I am a gigging musician and the M13 is the real deal ( got it last week, gigged for the first time over the weekend ).

What's so cool about the M13 ( and I stated this in my initial review a few pages fact ), the m13 does NOT impart it's own tone on yor rig, unless you set it up to. It's your base tone, then kick in reverb, delay's, trem, etc. and it's the same base tone but with the effects added....

So with repect, I just don't understand your gripe or negative slant or why your calling people out in this thread. Do you work for a competitor of Line 6 ?? ( sounds that way )

Also, I'm a gigging musician, playing, bars, fuctions etc. two to four days a week, also work a fulltime day job ( I post from the " day job " )......frankly I don't have time to post mp3's and videos......the unit just recently came out....give it time, you'll see more clip and videos soon from those that have the time I'm sure....

stillwells clips are great and helped me to try and then buy one of these. His clips are very representive of what this unit is capable of...

Peace man :)

[heavypick]

So Rich Renken - Product Manager from Line 6 Corp, when asked if there's any decent sound clips for this M13, tells us punters on TPG to go search "stilwell" on Youtube.

Well I did that and found that all of Stilwel clip's demoing the M13's effects (excepting the Looper) had a very brief connection description attached which states that the M13 was plugged into an AXE-FX. Stilwel also briefly states that the AXE-FX does nothing to the sound. If that's true then why bother plugging the M13 into it ??? There's no other description of how the tones are produced.

Now the marketing Gurus at Line 6 may think this is gonna fool a newbie, or some other dunce, but to the experienced muso, or even the wary consumer, this just looks like a fraud.
Am I as easily shocked as Rich is - No
Is this normal marketing practice - Yes.
Should we be very very suspicious when Marketing Execs start posting on non affiliated websites like TGP - ABSOLUTELY.

But as Rich points out you can also listen to clips of the M13 on the Line 6 website. If you wanna believe how they allegedly produced the tones for the Line 6 clips then good luck to ya.

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

I think you're a bit overly cynical. When the guy uses the Axe-fx, it's the same thing like everyone else on TGP. No one is playing a Jetter GSB through a Crate solid state amp. If a guy demos the GSB through aTwo-Rock then is that a fraud? Would you be more convinced if used a Crate? Also, I think it's a good thing Rich is on the forum. If you have an M13 question, most likely he would have the right answer (and not just becase he's trying to sell it)? He answered honestly about the BPM thing didn't he? I met him him at the amp show and he was a really cool guy. By the way, whether Line 6 has marketing execs on TGP or not, they'll still sell a million of their products at GC and Best Buy, and such. For them, the TGP market would be a drop in the bucket. Just like Tore from TC, I think it's a good thing when these guys are on the boards answering questions.

[Andre357]

To get the thread back on track :)


Gigged with it over the weekend, worked great. Set up three scenes with all my sounds and effects, and easily changed scenes, patches easily. My tap dancing actually was minimized using this unit. I'll set up a couple of other scenes moving forward. Also, was nice to be able to tweak on the fly ( like delay mix or feedback ) and have that auto saved for when i went back to that sound later.

I used effect unit one ( so three patches ) in front of my amp and the other three in the loop of my Budda SDII 18. I'm also running a keeley compressor, cot50. and an eternity in front of the amp. I wont be giving up my cot and eternity, but i did get good and usable OD sounds from the colordrive and screamer patches.

The colordrive patch in particular is very, very good. It's actually dynamic and cleans up well when you roll the volume knob down on your guitar. It's a low to med gain OD that is very usable and I think many will be suprised at how good it sounds. If it was in an MXR sized box by itself and put out by one of the " boutique " guys, people would be lining up on a waiting list to get it i think. Souded great with my tele and cut through the mix well without being ice picky. You could even use it as an " on all the time " OD if so inclined. Stacked great with my eternity for searing leads. Also used the tube comp patch quite a bit....sounded nice on some rythmic R&B/Motown stuff once Igot the setting right.

ONE NICE SUPRISE - you can set your tap tempo's with the effect off if anyone's wondering - so I could tap in my trem tempo for instance , and then kick in the effect.


Two things ( that I've found so far ) that need to be fixed in an update.

1 ) The Vibrato patch jumps in volume a bit rendering it a bit of a pain in the butt to use live. Wish it had a LEVEL control maybe instead of MIX ? Because the jump in volume could come in handy for some situations and the depth and mix knobs seem reduntant. I dont know maybe this should be left alone. The volume jump could come in handy for some...

2 ) the auto volume just doesn't work like it should, the ramp time is to fast and it does create the same sort of ambiance like it did on the DL4 ( i reported this a few pages back as well )


Cant wait to try an expression pedal with this thing ( I haven't even set one with it yet ). That will be next step with it.

But to make a long story short it worked flawlessly over the weekend and did what it was intended to do....

[jaycee]

I gigged with mine for the first time Saturday night and was most impressed. To waxhead, the unit does what it advertises with ease of use and that's why everyone is pleased with it. Simple. I know it may be hard to believe, but true. There's no need to write a report about it and if you've played any of the effects that it models then you'll have a better understanding. It's a well thought out unit and works great. Even my bandmates like it and i've showed up with quite a few different processors in my day. I don't think there's a guitarist out there who couldn't find some use for this unit.

[Mastervolume]

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.


I am one of those allegedly super happy users. I have been posting here long before the change of 2002. I have owned more gear, dare I say, than anyone else on this board.

I am not a fan of Line 6 products. I have never felt like I could get a tone out of anything that they have ever been associated with that didn't feel fake or digital.

I have used about 8 different DL4s in the last 8 or so years. I have a love hate relationship with the pedal. Love the idea, hate the way it screws up my tone. I settled down with having Keeley mod the DL4 to make it usable for me.

That said.

I bought one to give it a try. I got a smokin' deal from a buddy that is a store manager for one of the large chains.

Brought it home thinking that I would be selling it shortly after. That was 3 weeks and 5 gigs ago.

When I brought the unit home and plugged it into my amp, dialed up the edge scene and started playing "Bad" I just started laughing. The M13 not only sounded dead to nuts the same as the tone I heard on stilwel's demo it also sounded better than my pedalboard with 2K worth of pedals on it.

With a direct a/b to my board and the M13 it took me about 4 seconds to realize that everything on my pedalboard was up for sale.

I have hung on to some spendy OD pedals but over the weekend when I was comparing in a live setting my eternity vs the Tube drive setting on the M13, the M13 was the real winner.

I agree with you about the try it for yourself comment. Had I not thought like that I would have NEVER bought this thing. I would have considered myself too cool to use a multi fx pedal.

This weekend when I am playing perfectly timed delays and then have the ability to drop a seekwah into the mix.....yeah, for 500 bucks you have to be crazy not to at least give it a shot.

[fiftywatt]

I agree that any user would be well-advised to test any new piece of gear with their own rig to see if it compliments their signal chain and/or playing style.

And really there is no substitute for this. There's a Sam Ash 12 miles from my day job. They have an M13 available for demo in the store. I've been unable to get over there for the last week, so no go on that. Last week GC had one unit in stock. I had some time to kill before rehearsal, so I dropped in. One of the sales guys was unboxing the sole unit they had for a potential buyer. I never got to play it myself, but I did get to hear it in person, before I had to head out. Seemed good.

So.. despite the probability of getting a unit in need of the firmware update, I ordered one via the Music123 15% discount last week. It will be delivered today and I will get to try it with my own various amp rigs. I owned all of the 4 button Line 6 stomps years ago and dug them alot, so this M13 gizmo is something I've craved for years. I expect it to be good.

Question for you users.. does anyone use their unit in "Latched Scene Mode" for live gigs? I often need radical tone changes with one stomp and am wondering if that is the way to go. I think the tradeoff is that you can't tweak scenes on the fly in this mode. Otherwise it seems that I would need to do a little pedal dancing to go from "rotary speaker w/ delay" to a "uber gain solo" setting, if that makes sense.

[dognmoon]

From what I've been reading, it seems like every time you make a change or a tempo change with an effect - it saves that change.

So that when you come back to an effect, it shows up as what was last there.

This is different from the DL4. But better.

Also, is there any kind of Global tap setting? So you can have some presets with a Global tempo and others with a Set tempo?

Hi Radcliff,
In the fray, it looks like your questions got passed over...

Yes, there is an auto-save feature so that any changes are automatically saved. You can turn this off (and switch to a manual save function) if you're the type who likes to tweak tones on the fly and wants to come back to a set starting point each time.

Yes, the tap tempo button is global, so once it's tapped in, any effects that have tap tempo functionality are synched to it. And the majority of effects in M13 are tappable. All the delays, most of the modulations, and many of the filters can be controlled by tap tempo.

Regarding tap vs. set tempos, yes you can decide for each patch if you'd like it set to tap tempo and a number of subdivisions can be assigned (i.e. quarter note, dotted-8th, 16th triplets, etc.)- or you can set it to a milliseconds setting. If set to ms, the tap tempo doesn't affect it. So for my Sunday morning steady, I set up some effects to a firm ms setting because I have my drummer on a click for some tunes. Other tunes are off click so I want to be able to tap those delays, modulations, etc. in on the fly.

I hope that helps.

[donbarzini]

Brought it home thinking that I would be selling it shortly after. That was 3 weeks and 5 gigs ago.

When I brought the unit home and plugged it into my amp, dialed up the edge scene and started playing "Bad" I just started laughing. The M13 not only sounded dead to nuts the same as the tone I heard on stilwel's demo it also sounded better than my pedalboard with 2K worth of pedals on it.

That's it, I'm getting one. Even though it says it is only instrument level, maybe it will still have enough headroom to run delay in my Suhr Badger 30 effects loop. It can always be returned for a full refund if it doesn't work out.

[dognmoon]

I'd also like to add that an endorsement from Mastervolume is a shock to me. The list of amps he's bought and sold around here would make your head spin. To steal some words from MLK Jr., Mastervolume has "...been to the mountaintop..." :)

I still think anyone should try the M13 for themselves, but for gear-hounds and tone-quest'rs like him to start agreeing with the validity and useability of the M13... it's just a really great compliment to what Line 6 has done here.

[donbarzini]

The only other multi-effect stomp box that I was considering is the TC Nova System.

[i8guitar]

Another M13 gig report...

I used the M13 with my Zinky Blue Velvet combo amp during multiple worship services with great results. The thing I appreciated most was the immediate control over each effect to be as bold or subtle as needed. There is something about being "in the moment" sometimes that overrides all previous tweaking and planning, and I felt the M13 excelled in that aspect.

I will say that it was difficult to distinguish by the lights which stompbox was activated: we've got quite a bit of backlighting going on, not to mention the huge screen behind us, and the white spots coming down to light the stage. I pretty much have dedicated sections for each fx type: OD>Mod>Delay>Verb, so the screen color helped, and I more or less memorized each patch's location in the section beforehand. I do like having the "dim" version of the light there for reference though.

As a side note, I opted to not use my amp's dirty channel, and went straight into the input of the clean channel, using the M13's (Chandler) Tube Drive and (RAT) Classic Distortion. I found both to interact well with my humbucker equipped Strat, with plenty of note definition and response to the volume control.

[johnrea_77]

Since I've had the M13 programmed for live use:



Sold my Line 6 X3 Live - great unit, didn't really need/use the amp models. The easy editing on the M13 and ability to put effects in any order made the switch a no brainer. I did lose the capability of having the X3 Live as a back-up through DI, but I have other gear for that.
My TC Electronics System has been put on the back burner. Haven't used it much since the M13 has been dialed in. There are some things that it might do better, but I think the M13 is a better overall unit for my needs.

I'm glad Line 6 made this unit feel a little beefier. I can live with the external AC adapter, but it would not have been my preference. I still wish some programmable relays were incorporated into this. As it stands right now, I'm not switching amp channels.

[Mastervolume]

http://www.jmiamps.com/m13/DSCN9619.JPG

[Leonc]

http://www.jmiamps.com/m13/DSCN9619.JPG
Hey Joe - is that an old Gibby? Which one you playing through?

[Mastervolume]

Hey Joe - is that an old Gibby? Which one you playing through?

good eye!

1964ish Ga30 RVT

I had(have) it up for sale in the forum for a really low price, I am coming out with an amp line and need the coin to cover the cost of cabs and chassis and trannies and.........

But.

I used it this weekend in one of my churches overflows with about 300 people not mic'd. It cut through the entire room. It has a perfect midrange that just works..

Might hang on to it now if I can.

[teetopkram]

good eye!

1964ish Ga30 RVT

I had(have) it up for sale in the forum for a really low price, I am coming out with an amp line and need the coin to cover the cost of cabs and chassis and trannies and.........

But.

I used it this weekend in one of my churches overflows with about 300 people not mic'd. It cut through the entire room. It has a perfect midrange that just works..

Might hang on to it now if I can.

Hey Mastervolume -

Just saw you were located in Huntington Beach. Have you heard of/had a chance to check out Seis Cuerdas yet? They were playing an outdoor street festival in HB when we were there for vacation this summer. Sort of new age/punk flamenco guitar, and masterfully fast.

[Mastervolume]

Hey Mastervolume -

Just saw you were located in Huntington Beach. Have you heard of/had a chance to check out Seis Cuerdas yet? They were playing an outdoor street festival in HB when we were there for vacation this summer. Sort of new age/punk flamenco guitar, and masterfully fast.

Yeah I have seen them on main street here a couple of times. They know how to play and how to play to a crowd, fun for sure but I don't see it going on my ipod.

[pbhtrip]

So Rich Renken - Product Manager from Line 6 Corp, when asked if there's any decent sound clips for this M13, tells us punters on TPG to go search "stilwell" on Youtube.

Well I did that and found that all of Stilwel clip's demoing the M13's effects (excepting the Looper) had a very brief connection description attached which states that the M13 was plugged into an AXE-FX. Stilwel also briefly states that the AXE-FX does nothing to the sound. If that's true then why bother plugging the M13 into it ??? There's no other description of how the tones are produced.

Now the marketing Gurus at Line 6 may think this is gonna fool a newbie, or some other dunce, but to the experienced muso, or even the wary consumer, this just looks like a fraud.
Am I as easily shocked as Rich is - No
Is this normal marketing practice - Yes.
Should we be very very suspicious when Marketing Execs start posting on non affiliated websites like TGP - ABSOLUTELY.

But as Rich points out you can also listen to clips of the M13 on the Line 6 website. If you wanna believe how they allegedly produced the tones for the Line 6 clips then good luck to ya.

And then there's all the allegedly super happy M13 consumers posting on here saying very little specific about the unit but singing it's praises and surprise, surprise, very few, if any, clips, mp3's etc are being posted here. Which brings us back to Stilwel and Line 6 marketing Execs.

Buyer beware, if you buy this unit without fully testing it out with your own guitars and amps first then you're CRAZZZZZY IMHO.

Are you an idiot?

Let me say for starters that I DO NOT work for Line6, nor do I use any Line6 gear. That being said I would be hard pressed to recall the last time I had the misfortune of reading such an idiotic post. Stillwell states clearly that the AxeFx is providing the AC30 amp sim only and that all effects come from the M13 in his initial M13 clip and in all the subsequent clips restates that the AxeFx is being used as an amp sim only. Anyone who can read would know what the signal path was and what each piece of gear was doing.

I've known Stillwell for quite a while now and I know exactly where he works..........it's not Line6. He was a beta tester for the M13, he made clips of the M13 during that testing period. I heard these clips before he made them available on YouTube and I was also aware of his thoughts on the M13. He was in no way trying to trick anyone with these clips..........the M13 was the source of the effects that you are hearing, the AxeFx was the source of the amp sims........it is a VERY simple thing to understand.

If you don't like the M13 (or L6) then don't buy one, who cares? I didn't buy one either, it doesn't interest me at this point.............but that doesn't mean that there aren't happy users out there. Just because the happy users aren't making clips to appease some moron on a message board doesn't mean that they don't exist.

I do agree with you on one point..........people should always try out gear before buying and if they can do that with their own guitar and amp then all the better. If you are only applying this little bit of smarts that you came up with to L6 gear then you're a bigger idiot than your post even reveals.

p

[m.z.]

wow.....:munch

[qatcat]

Are you an idiot?

Let me say for starters that I DO NOT work for Line6, nor do I use any Line6 gear. That being said I would be hard pressed to recall the last time I had the misfortune of reading such an idiotic post. Stillwell states clearly that the AxeFx is providing the AC30 amp sim only and that all effects come from the M13 in his initial M13 clip and in all the subsequent clips restates that the AxeFx is being used as an amp sim only. Anyone who can read would know what the signal path was and what each piece of gear was doing.

I've known Stillwell for quite a while now and I know exactly where he works..........it's not Line6. He was a beta tester for the M13, he made clips of the M13 during that testing period. I heard these clips before he made them available on YouTube and I was also aware of his thoughts on the M13. He was in no way trying to trick anyone with these clips..........the M13 was the source of the effects that you are hearing, the AxeFx was the source of the amp sims........it is a VERY simple thing to understand.

If you don't like the M13 (or L6) then don't buy one, who cares? I didn't buy one either, it doesn't interest me at this point.............but that doesn't mean that there aren't happy users out there. Just because the happy users aren't making clips to appease some moron on a message board doesn't mean that they don't exist.

I do agree with you on one point..........people should always try out gear before buying and if they can do that with their own guitar and amp then all the better. If you are only applying this little bit of smarts that you came up with to L6 gear then you're a bigger idiot than your post even reveals.

p


+1 probably a Boss or Digitech minion out on a drive-by :hide

[ejecta]

Is there any way to run this so that you use s set up like a 4 cable method in that you can put effects in front of your amp but have all post pre amp effects go to a stereo wet rig. So basically using this in a w/d/w rig and have your post pre effects in the wet cabs but have still be able to put stomps like a comressor or drive in front of your head. Hope this makes sense. :D

[stilwel]

Yes, this makes sense, and is completely possible using the fx loop,

[ejecta]

Yes, this makes sense, and is completely possible using the fx loop,

Yep I just found some info in the advanced users guide that it possible. Actually just found the link to that guide. The regular manual didnt address this. Thanks though!

[troykennedy]

I have hung on to some spendy OD pedals but over the weekend when I was comparing in a live setting my eternity vs the Tube drive setting on the M13, the M13 was the real winner.

OK I just tried this and freaked myself out a little bit. Tube Driver dialed in just a little is really giving my 2 (count 'em) 2 eternities a real run for their money. Yikes!

[Design Guy]

Endlessly entertaining, this thread is (did that sound too much like Yoda?).

As far as I know, everyone from Line 6 (myself included) is very open about where we work. Most of us even have that disclaimer in our signature lines.

I've been on this board since the old PRS Forum days and still come here primarily for the same reasons everyone else does. ...that said, it's also fun to read what people think of gear I helped create; oh, there have been some doozies, not to mention some outrigh brutal posts in the past. It's all good though. :)

Rock on!
D

[DavidE]

Is there any way to run this so that you use s set up like a 4 cable method in that you can put effects in front of your amp but have all post pre amp effects go to a stereo wet rig. So basically using this in a w/d/w rig and have your post pre effects in the wet cabs but have still be able to put stomps like a comressor or drive in front of your head. Hope this makes sense. :D

This question has been asked and answered several times in this thread. The answer is yes. Pretty cool.

[DavidE]

Mine just arrived........

Should I video the unboxing? LOL... WTF is up with those unboxing videos? What a waste of time!

[briaNsr]

Mine just arrived........

Should I video the unboxing? LOL... WTF is up with those unboxing videos? What a waste of time!

hahaha.. screw unboxing.. make a video running 4 delays, or 4 reverbd.. or 2 delays and 2 reerbs.. give us some spacey ambient wacky sounds!!!

[DavidE]

Wow... there's a LOT to work with here. I need to try this thing out with a couple of amps....

[radcliff]

Can I run half this thing through my FX Loop and half through the input?

[Mastervolume]

OK I just tried this and freaked myself out a little bit. Tube Driver dialed in just a little is really giving my 2 (count 'em) 2 eternities a real run for their money. Yikes!

two weeks ago bobby commented on my tone and said I was just killing. When he stepped around my amp and looked at the M13 lying on the stage he just started laughing. He was one of the beta testers for the unit.

If this thing cost a grand I would have bought it. For less than 500 bucks it is a no brainer.

[Mastervolume]

Can I run half this thing through my FX Loop and half through the input?


yes

[Waxhead]

Are you an idiot?

Let me say for starters that I DO NOT work for Line6, nor do I use any Line6 gear. That being said I would be hard pressed to recall the last time I had the misfortune of reading such an idiotic post. Stillwell states clearly that the AxeFx is providing the AC30 amp sim only and that all effects come from the M13 in his initial M13 clip and in all the subsequent clips restates that the AxeFx is being used as an amp sim only. Anyone who can read would know what the signal path was and what each piece of gear was doing.

I've known Stillwell for quite a while now and I know exactly where he works..........it's not Line6. He was a beta tester for the M13, he made clips of the M13 during that testing period. I heard these clips before he made them available on YouTube and I was also aware of his thoughts on the M13. He was in no way trying to trick anyone with these clips..........the M13 was the source of the effects that you are hearing, the AxeFx was the source of the amp sims........it is a VERY simple thing to understand.

If you don't like the M13 (or L6) then don't buy one, who cares? I didn't buy one either, it doesn't interest me at this point.............but that doesn't mean that there aren't happy users out there. Just because the happy users aren't making clips to appease some moron on a message board doesn't mean that they don't exist.

I do agree with you on one point..........people should always try out gear before buying and if they can do that with their own guitar and amp then all the better. If you are only applying this little bit of smarts that you came up with to L6 gear then you're a bigger idiot than your post even reveals.

p

Well - what a laugh this is. :rotflmao
Some very defensive people on this forum isn't there.
Did I criticise the M13 - no.
Did I say Stilwel was a fraud or anything negative about him - No.
Did I say that Stilwel's info did not fully explain the signal path - YES. That's true. Obviously running it anywhere near an AXE-FX is gonna make people suspicious. I don't know Stilwel and no-one else here does either (except for pbhtrip). We have learnt however that Stilwel was "a Beta tester for the M13" and made the clips during a testing period. Does that mean Stilwel was paid by Line 6 to make the clips. ??

Should everyone be extremely sceptical of any claims made by any marketing Exec from any Corp - YES. If you're not - then you're a naive idiot IMHO.

Blind faith in the private sector has given the US the current economic meltdown. How many times have you guys gotta be taken to the cleaners before the penny drops - duh.

I'm glad to see there's apparently some genuinely happy M13 customers and this thread is not a marketing ploy. This type of thing has certainly been done before on forums. Cynical morons like me don't need clips cause I'll go test the M13 myself before making any judgements on it. The point of my post was to encourage people not to blindly accept the claims of manufacturers and those that may be paid by them. People should look closely for any smoke and mirrors, be very wary, ignore the hype, fully test the product themselves and make an informed decision. :munch

[troykennedy]

Bobby Hartry? if it fooled Bobby it's time for all of us to sell our stuff.

He has the golden tone ears for sure. Great guy and a great player. Did my last two CD's. And apparently married a great gal from Rock Harbor.


two weeks ago bobby commented on my tone and said I was just killing. When he stepped around my amp and looked at the M13 lying on the stage he just started laughing. He was one of the beta testers for the unit.

If this thing cost a grand I would have bought it. For less than 500 bucks it is a no brainer.

[stilwel]

Well - what a laugh this is. :rotflmao
Some very defensive people on this forum isn't there.
Did I criticise the M13 - no.
Did I say Stilwel was a fraud or anything negative about him - No.
Did I say that Stilwel's info did not fully explain the signal path - YES. That's true. Obviously running it anywhere near an AXE-FX is gonna make people suspicious. I don't know Stilwel and no-one else here does either (except for pbhtrip). We have learnt however that Stilwel was "a Beta tester for the M13" and made the clips during a testing period. Does that mean Stilwel was paid by Line 6 to make the clips. ??

Should everyone be extremely sceptical of any claims made by any marketing Exec from any Corp - YES. If you're not - then you're a naive idiot IMHO.

Blind faith in the private sector has given the US the current economic meltdown. How many times have you guys gotta be taken to the cleaners before the penny drops - duh.

I'm glad to see there's apparently some genuinely happy M13 customers and this thread is not a marketing ploy. This type of thing has certainly been done before on forums. Cynical morons like me don't need clips cause I'll go test the M13 myself before making any judgements on it. The point of my post was to encourage people not to blindly accept the claims of manufacturers and those that may be paid by them. People should look closely for any smoke and mirrors, be very wary, ignore the hype, fully test the product themselves and make an informed decision. :munch

You obviously don't know what "beta-testing" means, and me being a tester hasn't been a secret either. It's pretty clear that you haven't read this entire thread, nor have you read the descriptions of my youtube demo videos.

...as I said before, I am not employed by Line 6, therefore I am not paid by Line 6. I am under NO obligation whatsoever to promote the M13. I tested it, I liked it, so I thought I'd share my enthusiasm for it with the world, which has clearly gone unappreciated by the likes of you.

I guess it's true....no good deed goes unpunished.

[broknstuff]

The people from line 6 have mostly been here answering questions about the product, not saying "oh buy this instead of the g-system" or whatever. They were pretty clear in introducing themselves as employees of line6. I for one thing it's great that we can talk to the product/design manager. If it doesn't interest you you don't need to ask him questions or read his answers, but it's a nice option. I don't think there's too much of a complaint when small company or well known luthiers (John Suhr, Bruce Egnater or Jeff from the egnater team, Tony from evidence audio, mark from lava cables etc) answer questions people may have about their gear.

I thought it was pretty evident that stilwel was using just the axe-fx for amp sim, but if it wasn't a simple question would have clarified it. It says in one of his videos "m13 (fuzz face, tape echo and octo verb) into Axe-Fx doing nothing but Fender Vibroverb amp sim (Brownface model)." or in another youtube clip where it says "Lp Custom into M13 (Tube Screamer and dual digital delay w/mod), into Axe-fx providing nothing but AC30 sim."

Also, how many people make clips of the stuff they own? I've never once made a clip of anything I own and I'm sure I'm not in the minority there.

I definitely agree that the best way would be to try it yourself. The nice part about this product is that it is going to be easily available at your local guitar center, sam ash (maybe soon even best buy?) as opposed to other boutique pieces that are not as easily available. I also agree with what I think may be your underlining point, that is pointing out how people seem to get really excited when something new comes out and it's the hot new thing, and then a few months later the honeymoon may be over and talk of it die down. That happens all the time and is a valid thing to want to point out, but I think it can be done without insinuating wrong doing on the behalf of those answering questions, or accusing those who are enjoying either the information or the product of naive ignorance.

edit: I didn't post to get into a flame war, I just think it might point out why people may be taken aback by your response and maybe how they interpreted it even if that's not how you meant it.

[MartinC]

OK ... I'm interested having read the last 50 or so posts (wasn't expecting quite so much:boxer)

Can someone fill me in ... does the M13 have significantly different tonal capabilities than a POD XT Live? I have a POD XT Live so I'm curious as to the tonal benefits of the M13 placed in front of a clean tube amp over and above a POD XT Live placed in front of the same clean tube amp and used as a multi-effects unit with the amp sims disengaged?

For the benefit of all readers, feel free to wax lyrical about the functional and technical differences and benefits, but it's really the tonal differences I'm interested in ... I'm hoping to get answers from people who have used both.

[richrenken]

Well - what a laugh this is. :rotflmao
Some very defensive people on this forum isn't there.
Did I criticise the M13 - no.
Did I say Stilwel was a fraud or anything negative about him - No.
Did I say that Stilwel's info did not fully explain the signal path - YES. That's true. Obviously running it anywhere near an AXE-FX is gonna make people suspicious. I don't know Stilwel and no-one else here does either (except for pbhtrip). We have learnt however that Stilwel was "a Beta tester for the M13" and made the clips during a testing period. Does that mean Stilwel was paid by Line 6 to make the clips. ??

Should everyone be extremely sceptical of any claims made by any marketing Exec from any Corp - YES. If you're not - then you're a naive idiot IMHO.

Blind faith in the private sector has given the US the current economic meltdown. How many times have you guys gotta be taken to the cleaners before the penny drops - duh.

I'm glad to see there's apparently some genuinely happy M13 customers and this thread is not a marketing ploy. This type of thing has certainly been done before on forums. Cynical morons like me don't need clips cause I'll go test the M13 myself before making any judgements on it. The point of my post was to encourage people not to blindly accept the claims of manufacturers and those that may be paid by them. People should look closely for any smoke and mirrors, be very wary, ignore the hype, fully test the product themselves and make an informed decision. :munch

Waxhead, I am only in here as a lover of M13 and to answer questions as the Product Manager. I don't work for marketing or sales at all. My job is to be the professional you. I am Tom Hanks in the movie Big. :)

I am not here to tell anyone what to do. I only directed you to Stilwel's vids because someone sent me the link and because he did some great clips. And informative ones. We only know each other on the boards, where I met him and asked him if he wanted to beta-test for me, he sent me pm's about improvements and features he would like to see. He was not paid a dime. Nothing. And writing this here officially could leave me open for a lawsuit if it were not true. And when I joined, I told Brian that I would only be in here to answer questions and not bash other people's gear or any of that. For full discloser, the only other people that I know that I know here are Troy Kennedy and Dwayne. I used to play with Troy when he lived in So.Cal.

I also directed you to our website where you could see how we recorded the clips and what gear was used. I wouldn't lie about what we used and some of you know Dwayne, so why would he let me lie, it is just gear.
But if any of you are in the San Fernando Valley area and want to meet over at Dwayne's studio and listen and compare to what we posted, let me know. Not your point really. Also, we did not pay Dwayne a dime. He is a long time friend and lover of DL4 and was in on the very first layout on paper of the M13 with his suggestions and he was a beta tester as well. That is my job, as Tom Hanks, I find other kids who love my toys and use them to help me make cooler toys. It is as simple as that.


You guys need to go try it for yourself and form your own opinions. Absolutely. If you hate it, get in here and say why.

I love the thing and I don't love everything we make. :) No Kool-Aid here.

Sorry for the confusion Waxhead, I really didn't mean to cause this chaos. I love TGP and respect it completely. Thanks to all you other guys for jumping in. It gave me the warm fuzzies.

P.S. little ole me here in Calabasas, loving a piece of gear is what caused all the problems on Wall St. this week? Really? hhhmmmm...... :huh

[Waxhead]

You obviously don't know what "beta-testing" means, and me being a tester hasn't been a secret either. It's pretty clear that you haven't read this entire thread, nor have you read the descriptions of my youtube demo videos.

...as I said before, I am not employed by Line 6, therefore I am not paid by Line 6. I am under NO obligation whatsoever to promote the M13. I tested it, I liked it, so I thought I'd share my enthusiasm for it with the world, which has clearly gone unappreciated by the likes of you.

I guess it's true....no good deed goes unpunished.

Where's the punishment ???
All I did was ask some questions.
You're quite right that I didn't know what a "Beta Tester" is. Is there any reason why I/we should. And I haven't read this whole thread (too long) but I did read, listen to your clips and thought they were very good, except that your description of the signal path was overly brief. As you chose to plug the M13 into an AXE-FX then to allay the suspicions of the non-naive, like myself, a more detailed description on Youtube would have helped.

You've done that now so it's resolved.
Also glad to hear you've not been paid by Line 6 to do the clips.
But why be surprised or offended that someone would question these things. Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Most people from Australia (and Europe) would expect this kind of scrutiny. We don't have blind faith in the private sector (or our governments), or the claims of people we don't personally know. :munch

[richrenken]

Also, I think it's a good thing Rich is on the forum. If you have an M13 question, most likely he would have the right answer (and not just becase he's trying to sell it)? He answered honestly about the BPM thing didn't he? I met him him at the amp show and he was a really cool guy. By the way, whether Line 6 has marketing execs on TGP or not, they'll still sell a million of their products at GC and Best Buy, and such. For them, the TGP market would be a drop in the bucket. Just like Tore from TC, I think it's a good thing when these guys are on the boards answering questions.

That is exactly it. My marketing guys and sales guys aren't on here. I am here because you guys are my people. I have watched and read about what you guys like since I started at Line 6 4 years ago. I decided to jump in because you were asking good questions and had good comments, and if I can't get your features into the M13, then I will get them into future incarnations. I think if I can make gear that you guys dig, then the masses will love it. Again, I am Tom Hanks in the movie Big that is as simple as it gets.

[Mincer]

Do we have an ETA on the bug fix release? And any chance we can get a real 'feedback' parameter for the looper instead of overdub level? I like the loop to fade no matter if I am in overdub or not.

[richrenken]

Do we have an ETA on the bug fix release? And any chance we can get a real 'feedback' parameter for the looper instead of overdub level? I like the loop to fade no matter if I am in overdub or not.

Very soon. I will be releasing 1.04 this week I hope to fix some bugs and then 1.05 to address the looper clicks and a few other bugs. Thanks guys for your patience.

I will check on that "feedback" parameter. At this point I don't think I can get in feature requests. Only so many people and hours in the day. That reminds me, I am sick as a dog, and need to go home.

Oh, one other thing for Waxhead, love your screen name, btw, but one of the reasons the guys on here listen to each other is because the music business is not that big, many of them know each other, you can feel the brotherhood. Working guitarist and such. I am actually very honored that they welcomed me in, and I think they did because they can tell I respect them and I have a lot of respect for TGP. When I went to the Dick Grove School of Music, Dick came in the first day of class and said, "if you remember one thing, remember this, There is only 5,000 people in this whole industry, so don't piss anyone off" That was great advice back in '85 and even better today because now there are only like 2,500 people in the industry. LOL :rotflmao

[jaycee]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but where is this alleged 'advanced user guide"?

[toelessfoot]

I had to register to ask this question...

When is it coming to Canada! I'm dying waiting for this thing. :crazy

[heavypick]

Very soon. I will be releasing 1.04 this week I hope to fix some bugs and then 1.05 to address the looper clicks and a few other bugs. Thanks guys for your patience.

I will check on that "feedback" parameter. At this point I don't think I can get in feature requests. Only so many people and hours in the day. That reminds me, I am sick as a dog, and need to go home.

Oh, one other thing for Waxhead, love your screen name, btw, but one of the reasons the guys on here listen to each other is because the music business is not that big, many of them know each other, you can feel the brotherhood. Working guitarist and such. I am actually very honored that they welcomed me in, and I think they did because they can tell I respect them and I have a lot of respect for TGP. When I went to the Dick Grove School of Music, Dick came in the first day of class and said, "if you remember one thing, remember this, There is only 5,000 people in this whole industry, so don't piss anyone off" That was great advice back in '85 and even better today because now there are only like 2,500 people in the industry. LOL :rotflmao

The last paragraph is sooooo true.

[Waxhead]

That is exactly it. My marketing guys and sales guys aren't on here. I am here because you guys are my people. I have watched and read about what you guys like since I started at Line 6 4 years ago. I decided to jump in because you were asking good questions and had good comments, and if I can't get your features into the M13, then I will get them into future incarnations. I think if I can make gear that you guys dig, then the masses will love it. Again, I am Tom Hanks in the movie Big that is as simple as it gets.

Geez Rich - the "Big" analogy is great. So you're just like Tom Hanks right. I thought the movie was pretty lame actually but you're much funnier. Does your boss know you're not interested in Company profits. Is "Big" written into your performance agreement ?

It is good to see you could actually fix some stuff in the M13 for the hapless punter. But in between the non-marketing speak I see you've mentioned "Bugs" in the M13 and talk of firmware updates to fix said "Bugs". For a product that was only released a few months ago this is unfortunate.

Rich - could you please provide a list of the "Bugs" so far identified in the M13 and the Line 6 Corp fix for each of them. And M13 owners could pitch in here too and list any "bugs", breaks or reliability issues you may have found so far.

[NeveSSL]

Nevermind... not worth it... I think my parents warned me of arguing with brick walls. :)

Brandon

[heavypick]

Geez Rich - the "Big" analogy is great. So you're just like Tom Hanks right. I thought the movie was pretty lame actually but you're much funnier. Does your boss know you're not interested in Company profits. Is "Big" written into your performance agreement ?

It is good to see you could actually fix some stuff in the M13 for the hapless punter. But in between the non-marketing speak I see you've mentioned "Bugs" in the M13 and talk of firmware updates to fix said "Bugs". For a product that was only released a few months ago this is unfortunate.

Rich - could you please provide a list of the "Bugs" so far identified in the M13 and the Line 6 Corp fix for each of them. And M13 owners could pitch in here too and list any "bugs", breaks or reliability issues you may have found so far.

Serious issues.

[matt5150]

Geez Rich - the "Big" analogy is great. So you're just like Tom Hanks right. I thought the movie was pretty lame actually but you're much funnier. Does your boss know you're not interested in Company profits. Is "Big" written into your performance agreement ?

It is good to see you could actually fix some stuff in the M13 for the hapless punter. But in between the non-marketing speak I see you've mentioned "Bugs" in the M13 and talk of firmware updates to fix said "Bugs". For a product that was only released a few months ago this is unfortunate.

Rich - could you please provide a list of the "Bugs" so far identified in the M13 and the Line 6 Corp fix for each of them. And M13 owners could pitch in here too and list any "bugs", breaks or reliability issues you may have found so far.

The purpose of the Beta Testing is to identify "bugs" or glitches in operation or software and address them before or after release.

This is the reason for software updates in a number of products. I do not see anything "unfortunate" about these issues and applaud Line 6 for testing the product before a mass release.

Not really sure what your agenda is here or why you feel a conspiracy is in place because some guys were lucky enough to demo what seems to be a great piece of gear.

Stilwel has always been a straight shooter and I trust his tonal opinions.

Matt

[MartinC]

Not wanting to weigh into any bickering ... but I don't think nationality has any bearing on the less productive aspects of this thread.

Peace.

Oh, and can someone have a crack at answering my previous post in this thread (post #445) ... thanks :AOK

[NeveSSL]

Agreed Martin... I brought it up because it was mentioned by Waxhead earlier in the thread. Probably shouldn't have brought it up again. My apologies. Just a bit frustrated. :)

Anyway, back to the subject at hand...

To me it seems that the M13 is more related to the Pro units than the floor models. I base this on the list of effects matches the Pro units in order even. They're named a little differently, but the same set (other than the dry-through models). :)

I'm really hoping for a rack-mount model as I was planning on getting an Echo Pro, but I can pick this unit up with all of the Echo Pro models as well as Filter and Mod Pro models and EVEN BETTER, the Verbzilla and DM4 models for the same price! SWEET! :)

Can anyone comment on how they compare to the Pro modelers? I'm betting favorably, but just curious. :)

Thanks!

Brandon

[swampthing]

Anyone find the easter egg on the box yet? Has something to do with pigs and chickens...and a hick with a nick "Swampthing".

A free Swampthing guitar pick for the first person to find it :) bonus pick if you can find an egg on another line 6 box.

Yeaaah baby!

[holyears]

Anyone find the easter egg on the box yet? Has something to do with pigs and chickens...and a hick with a nick "Swampthing".

A free Swampthing guitar pick for the first person to find it :) bonus pick if you can find an egg on another line 6 box.

Yeaaah baby!

Is it the white logo on the side by the UPC that has a broken beer bottle and cigarette butts? IF not - then what the heck is that logo for!? :messedup



....and Waxhead, with all due respect, please read the whole thread before posting comments/questions dealt with long ago. Your wasting my uncynical people-trusting time.

[richrenken]

Geez Rich - the "Big" analogy is great. So you're just like Tom Hanks right. I thought the movie was pretty lame actually but you're much funnier. Does your boss know you're not interested in Company profits. Is "Big" written into your performance agreement ?

Thanks, I do like to joke. I don't think I said anything about not being interested in profits. In fact, I believe if I listen to these pro cats about what they would like in their "toys" then I will bring more successful products to market. And yes, in a way, it is in my job description. :D

[richrenken]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but where is this alleged 'advanced user guide"?

Not a dumb question at all. http://line6.com/support/manuals/
Go to Stompbox Modelers and click ok and you will find it.

[richrenken]

I had to register to ask this question...

When is it coming to Canada! I'm dying waiting for this thing. :crazy

I can't believe it is not there yet. I will check it out and let you know.

[cosmos]

Very soon. I will be releasing 1.04 this week I hope to fix some bugs and then 1.05 to address the looper clicks and a few other bugs. Thanks guys for your patience.


Hi Rich,

just a question: I have V1.02 at this point. Is there a list of differences between the various versions, and where can I get these updates? I haven't been able to find it on the Line6-site, maybe that's just me..

[rcl]

Ditto. v1.02 here as well. I need to find my midi interface....

[Ren5150]

Where's the punishment ???
All I did was ask some questions.
You're quite right that I didn't know what a "Beta Tester" is. Is there any reason why I/we should. And I haven't read this whole thread (too long) but I did read, listen to your clips and thought they were very good, except that your description of the signal path was overly brief. As you chose to plug the M13 into an AXE-FX then to allay the suspicions of the non-naive, like myself, a more detailed description on Youtube would have helped.

You've done that now so it's resolved.
Also glad to hear you've not been paid by Line 6 to do the clips.
But why be surprised or offended that someone would question these things. Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Most people from Australia (and Europe) would expect this kind of scrutiny. We don't have blind faith in the private sector (or our governments), or the claims of people we don't personally know. :munch


Does everything have to be a government related conspiracy?

Relax.

[GCDEF]

OK ... I'm interested having read the last 50 or so posts (wasn't expecting quite so much:boxer)

Can someone fill me in ... does the M13 have significantly different tonal capabilities than a POD XT Live? I have a POD XT Live so I'm curious as to the tonal benefits of the M13 placed in front of a clean tube amp over and above a POD XT Live placed in front of the same clean tube amp and used as a multi-effects unit with the amp sims disengaged?

For the benefit of all readers, feel free to wax lyrical about the functional and technical differences and benefits, but it's really the tonal differences I'm interested in ... I'm hoping to get answers from people who have used both.

The POD is primarily an amp modeler with some effects thrown in. The M-13 is only an effects modeler and rather than relying on programming and presets, it's designed as closely as possible to mimic a real pedalboard.

The most obvious tonal difference would be with the M-13 you're using your amp, but with the POD you're using their amp sims.

The real beauty of the M-13 to me is that it gives you the huge variety and flexibility of a digital multi-effects unit, with the feel and simplicity of an old-fashioned pedalboard. No programming or presets required.

[CBeeper]

The only complaint I have so far is my old eyes can't read the preset screens... :( Maybe I can rig up a magnifying lense to the top of it.

[Andre357]

One thing to owners of this thing, mess around with the true bypass vs DSP bypass setting. Theyt both sound really good. I actually went with the DSP bypass. It's a good sounding buffer. Sounds better with my particular rig, actually.

I haven't found a way to have delay's trail off after I bypass in DSP mode..... is there a setting to do that if I wanted ?? Just curious.

[Scooter]

This unit interests me and I look forward to trying one out. But even though I'm a weekend warrior I need it to be reliable. Circuit boards, ribbon cables, etc. scare the daylights out of me. With my pedalboard, either an individual pedal will fail (take it out of the chain), a cable will go bad (swap it with a spare I carry), or the power supply will fail (again, swap it with a spare). Curious to hear how well this holds up over time for people who are out there schlepping it from stage to stage.

[stratman34]

GRRRRRR......

Went to my closest GC (Plano), which has a reputation as the worst GC in the area. They had several M13s in stock. I asked the Accys guy if there was one down that I could test, or if we could open one up. He said don't have one down and not opening one up.

He also tried to sell me a used Mk4.23 they had for $259. New they are $225 with no waiting list....

I'm in on the M13 concept, and will likely buy it from a different GC so I have 30 days to check it out with my gear and "on the job".

[ejecta]

Does everything have to be a government related conspiracy?

Relax.

I think someone one at Line 6 ran over his dog.

[Andre357]

This unit interests me and I look forward to trying one out. But even though I'm a weekend warrior I need it to be reliable. Circuit boards, ribbon cables, etc. scare the daylights out of me. With my pedalboard, either an individual pedal will fail (take it out of the chain), a cable will go bad (swap it with a spare I carry), or the power supply will fail (again, swap it with a spare). Curious to hear how well this holds up over time for people who are out there schlepping it from stage to stage.


One thing thats interesting, this thing passes sound through even when the power is off on it....

Also, you can set it up so that only effect unit 3 & 4 for instance are in the effects loop of your amp ( I found that out withsome incorrect cabling on my part when I first bought it ) and you can leave effects 1 & 2 completly out of the equation.... So that they are not in the chain whatsoever in front of the amp or in the loop. Perhaps this could come in handy if you ever had to trouble shoot at a gig ( like the switches went bad on the 1st effects unit or something ) .

Hard to explain, but makes sense once you have one and play around with it.

But ya I hear ya. Time will tell. I'll probably pick up a spare power supply for mine once they become available ( if there not already )

[macmax77]

Thanks, I do like to joke. I don't think I said anything about not being interested in profits. In fact, I believe if I listen to these pro cats about what they would like in their "toys" then I will bring more successful products to market. And yes, in a way, it is in my job description. :D

i want to say i will try out the M13, it looks like a great tool to make music.

That been said and seeing you and since you care about us customers,
could you please stop making amps?:D

[plato67]

Fellow Canadians:

Buy it from a US source! It'll be cheaper than L&M. All in I got mine for @560 CDN shipped to my door (txs incl) from Musicians Advocate on Ebay. L&M said there's will be closer to 600 CDN BEFORE taxes! You may even qualify for the free expression pedal if you have a US address. I've had mine for 3 weeks, and it's not even available in Canada yet.

[stilwel]

One thing thats interesting, this thing passes sound through even when the power is off on it....

That is the sign of a real, non-buffered, true-bypass. The M13 has relays in it (like a GCX loop switcher) which are closed to bypass the circuitry when all fx are bypassed, or when the unit is turned off.

[Andre357]

i want to say i will try out the M13, it looks like a great tool to make music.

That being said and seeing you and since you care about us customers,
could you please stop making amps?:D

I spit coffee out on that one !! LOL :D

[swampthing]

Is it the white logo on the side by the UPC that has a broken beer bottle and cigarette butts? IF not - then what the heck is that logo for!? :messedup


That's the fragile symbol :knitting keep looking

[jaycee]

Not a dumb question at all. http://line6.com/support/manuals/
Go to Stompbox Modelers and click ok and you will find it.

Excellent, thanks.

[qatcat]

Excellent, thanks.


I keep that manual open on my laptop. Once I get ink I will print it:AOK

[dognmoon]

FYI: I saw one at my local BestBuy last weekend. Since they've started selling instruments, some/many/all BestBuys will have some Line6 stuff.

[dognmoon]

Anyone find the easter egg on the box yet? Has something to do with pigs and chickens...and a hick with a nick "Swampthing".

A free Swampthing guitar pick for the first person to find it :) bonus pick if you can find an egg on another line 6 box.

Yeaaah baby!

oh, man. That is a thing of beauty. Please tell me those are your real teeth. Under the left flap on the inside fold of the box...

You know, I used to be in the habit of writing messages to my wife on design jobs. I would always use a morse code font. :) You know, the most romantic of all the languages.

[briaNsr]

question.. ive read the delays are not as long as the tonecores or the DL4
is that true?

no infinite delays when maxed feedback??

does the thing oscillates when you fool around with knobs? like the echopark?

[swampthing]

oh, man. That is a thing of beauty. Please tell me those are your real teeth. Under the left flap on the inside fold of the box...

You know, I used to be in the habit of writing messages to my wife on design jobs. I would always use a morse code font. :) You know, the most romantic of all the languages.

:AOK

PM your me your addy if you really want a swamp pick :)

Some nice choppers huh!

[NeveSSL]

FYI: I saw one at my local BestBuy last weekend. Since they've started selling instruments, some/many/all BestBuys will have some Line6 stuff.

Ok, we need pics bro. Not all of us have picked ours up yet. ;)

Brandon

[Priestunes]

This thread is why I love TGP. :)

BTW... the manual and advanced manual do not seem to tell whether or not this unit receives midi time code. Does anyone know whether or not it does?

[MartinC]

OK ... I'm interested having read the last 50 or so posts (wasn't expecting quite so much:boxer)

Can someone fill me in ... does the M13 have significantly different tonal capabilities than a POD XT Live? I have a POD XT Live so I'm curious as to the tonal benefits of the M13 placed in front of a clean tube amp over and above a POD XT Live placed in front of the same clean tube amp and used as a multi-effects unit with the amp sims disengaged?

For the benefit of all readers, feel free to wax lyrical about the functional and technical differences and benefits, but it's really the tonal differences I'm interested in ... I'm hoping to get answers from people who have used both.

The POD is primarily an amp modeler with some effects thrown in. The M-13 is only an effects modeler and rather than relying on programming and presets, it's designed as closely as possible to mimic a real pedalboard.

The most obvious tonal difference would be with the M-13 you're using your amp, but with the POD you're using their amp sims.

The real beauty of the M-13 to me is that it gives you the huge variety and flexibility of a digital multi-effects unit, with the feel and simplicity of an old-fashioned pedalboard. No programming or presets required.

Thanks for the reply GCDEF. I can see the benefits of the analogue pedal board packaging, but I'm really asking about the tonal differences/benefits, comparing POD XT Live to M13 when they are both being used as multi-effects units (POD amp sims bypassed) in front of the same, clean, effect-loopless amp ... ignoring the clearly different technical/functional/practical aspects and main product purpose.

Anyone?

[stilwel]

Thanks for the reply GCDEF. I can see the benefits of the analogue pedal board packaging, but I'm really asking about the tonal differences/benefits, comparing POD XT Live to M13 when they are both being used as multi-effects units (POD amp sims bypassed) in front of the same, clean, effect-loopless amp ... ignoring the clearly different technical/functional/practical aspects and main product purpose.

Anyone?

I have both a Pod XT Live and an M13 here.

Without question, I very much prefer the fx in the M13 over the XT series fx.

[briaNsr]

question.. ive read the delays are not as long as the tonecore or the DL4
is that true?

no infinite delays when maxed feedback??

does the thing oscillates when you fool around with knobs? like the echopark?

anyone?

[MartinC]

I have both a Pod XT Live and an M13 here.

Without question, I very much prefer the fx in the M13 over the XT series fx.

OK ... can you elaborate?

[plato67]

Mine oscillates with knob turning. But having said that... so do I.

[qatcat]

OK ... can you elaborate?

I've been through the Podxt, XT live and the M13 and can say the M13 is by far more user friendly which really makes it easier to use and get better sounds.

I used the Podxt live without the amp models just for effects and just never really got the tone I was looking for. It was usable but not like the M13. And yes I was skeptical before taking the plunge, that I would see similar results.

Without a doubt I can't believe how good this thing sounds. I'm using all the effects and they are as/or nearly as good as the boutique pedals I sold off.

for $499 it's a no brainer

[DavidE]

The only complaint I have so far is my old eyes can't read the preset screens... :( Maybe I can rig up a magnifying lense to the top of it.

Me too. My contacts haven't been working too well the last week or so, but man it's tough to read those screens from almost 6 feet up!

[DavidE]

This unit interests me and I look forward to trying one out. But even though I'm a weekend warrior I need it to be reliable. Circuit boards, ribbon cables, etc. scare the daylights out of me. With my pedalboard, either an individual pedal will fail (take it out of the chain), a cable will go bad (swap it with a spare I carry), or the power supply will fail (again, swap it with a spare). Curious to hear how well this holds up over time for people who are out there schlepping it from stage to stage.


My DL4 and MM4 have held up for years. I had to replace one footswitch in many years of gigging. This unit seems to be built better than my old modelers.

[DavidE]

oh, man. That is a thing of beauty. Please tell me those are your real teeth. Under the left flap on the inside fold of the box...

You know, I used to be in the habit of writing messages to my wife on design jobs. I would always use a morse code font. :) You know, the most romantic of all the languages.


Funny!

[stilwel]

OK ... can you elaborate?

I always preferred the sound of the fx in the 4-button stompers over the XT. Generally the M13 offers more of each effect type than the Xt series.
I like having 16 different od/dist options. I love the Boost/Comp model and the Fuzz Face. There's something different about the FF and the Screamer models in the M13, can't put my finger on it, but I like it.

The modulation fx are more in your face. I was always having level issues with them on my old pod xt pro. The rotary spkr sim in the xt was very guilty in this respect.

I'm a delay junky, so the myriad of delay flavors and the modulated delays are worth it alone for me. The analog w/mod on the XT is pretty bad. It sounds like a dark delay with a flange on the repeats. The M13 has a nice pitch modulation to it and has an expanded range to the modulation rate which allows it to go faster.

The FM4/M13 synth fx are more exciting than most of the XT Live synths. Although the Saturn 5 ring mod on the XT's Fx Junky model pack is actually really cool.

The addition of the Octoverb is just too cool. The other reverbs are roughly equivalent and I haven't really compared them since I don't use verb much.

The compressors are about the same, except for the Boost/Comp being in the M13.

[MartinC]

I always preferred the sound of the fx in the 4-button stompers over the XT. Generally the M13 offers more of each effect type than the Xt series.
I like having 16 different od/dist options. I love the Boost/Comp model and the Fuzz Face. There's something different about the FF and the Screamer models in the M13, can't put my finger on it, but I like it.

The modulation fx are more in your face. I was always having level issues with them on my old pod xt pro. The rotary spkr sim in the xt was very guilty in this respect.

I'm a delay junky, so the myriad of delay flavors and the modulated delays are worth it alone for me. The analog w/mod on the XT is pretty bad. It sounds like a dark delay with a flange on the repeats. The M13 has a nice pitch modulation to it and has an expanded range to the modulation rate which allows it to go faster.

The FM4/M13 synth fx are more exciting than most of the XT Live synths. Although the Saturn 5 ring mod on the XT's Fx Junky model pack is actually really cool.

The addition of the Octoverb is just too cool. The other reverbs are roughly equivalent and I haven't really compared them since I don't use verb much.

The compressors are about the same, except for the Boost/Comp being in the M13.

Exactly what I was looking for ... thanks :AOK

[holyears]

:AOK


Some nice choppers huh!

I found it -- hilarious! I should have looked harder! But seriously had you not said anything - I would have never seen it!

[richrenken]

Hi Rich,

just a question: I have V1.02 at this point. Is there a list of differences between the various versions, and where can I get these updates? I haven't been able to find it on the Line6-site, maybe that's just me..

No, it isn't just you. I haven't released it yet. It will be soon and I will post it here as well as our forums. Don't have a mopped up list for 1.04 but I will. And a list that we will release with 1.05 as soon as I solidify it.