New Line 6 M13?

[nstokes]

Hey All -

Not to hijack this thread, but I mentioned it earlier, and we're making great progress on a site dedicated to the M13 and sharing your favorite settings. It's called Dialed Tone, and you can check it here:

http://www.dialedtone.com

Please sign up to be notified of when we launch. In the meantime if you do sign up, we'll likely be contacting you to ask you to share some of your favorite settings, pre-launch, so that we can have a good collection to start off with. (On that note, the interface for sharing your settings with others will blow your minds! It's just like tweaking your own M13!)

We really hope this site is a benefit to the M13 community and the awesome pedal that it is!

Thx.

[Jon Silberman]

We were wondering where you'd gone to! Great idea, love the home page graphics (looks a bit familiar ;) ), I'm in. :D

[strumminsix]

http://www.dialedtone.com


Dude! I love the slogan, "The small percentage of tone that isn't in your hands."

[nstokes]

@strumminsix - :D Just keepin it real!

[Catoogie]

How are people using the Leslie models? How are you able to switch between speeds and have the ramping associated with it?

[Jon Silberman]

Like I said, I'm using the Tri-Chorus for my Leslie tones (trick is to set the chorusing "wide").

Haven't experimented with an expression pedal yet.

[Jon Silberman]

I'm sorry for posting this dumb question here but I'll be going straight today from work to band practice and don't have my M13 at hand.

We're supposed to practice Stevie Wonder's Superstition today in Eb, which will require me to detune a half step (unless I can prevail on the keyboardist to accomodate me :o ). Can the M13's tuner be reconfigured on the fly to drop every string down a half step?

[strumminsix]

I'm sorry for posting this dumb question here but I'll be going straight today from work to band practice and don't have my M13 at hand.

We're supposed to practice Stevie Wonder's Superstition today in Eb, which will require me to detune a half step (unless I can prevail on the keyboardist to accomodate me :o ). Can the M13's tuner be reconfigured on the fly to drop every string down a half step?
Pssst. Barre-chords :AOK


(but it would be nice to know if the M13 does alt tunings)

[KozMcCharlie]

How are people using the Leslie models? How are you able to switch between speeds and have the ramping associated with it?

The only way I know of is using an expression pedal. The ramping is not as gradual as I'd like though. On top of that, the fast sound seems a shade too fast. They should have modeled a Leslie 122 if you ask me. But I've gotten the thing to sound really convincing for a mono Leslie effect.

[KozMcCharlie]

I'm sorry for posting this dumb question here but I'll be going straight today from work to band practice and don't have my M13 at hand.

We're supposed to practice Stevie Wonder's Superstition today in Eb, which will require me to detune a half step (unless I can prevail on the keyboardist to accomodate me :o ). Can the M13's tuner be reconfigured on the fly to drop every string down a half step?

Just checked and there's no adjustment on the tuner only chromatic tuning, but that should work fine for detuning a half steep. The tuner will display an Eb, Ab, etc.

[stilwel]

I think what he's looking for is a harmonizer to drop the guitar down a 1/2 step FOR him.

...no it won't do that.

[Jon Silberman]

Guys guys guys. Don't take me for a dupe!

It should be obvious to anyone with even a modicum of common sense (revenge!!! :o ) that this is no more a barre chord issue than is playing Cinnamon Girl, rather, it's a question of needing to access the low Eb (D for Cinammon Girl) note. Drop D works with songs like CG because it's so intuitive, drop Eb/just the low E string is not. And I certainly don't want a harmonizer!

I think what I'll do for tonight is retune "close enough to rock and roll" for the one song like we did in the old days - against the keyboard's notes - and then return per the tuner afterwards. For gigs, I'll either bring my small hand-held Korg tuner or a second, pre-drop-tuned guitar. Or try the chromatic tuning approach, if it works

[finnster]

Jon,

No, you can't set the tuner to a different pitch value but it will tune Eb Ab etc...
Does this make sense?

[mtmartin71]

Question on the Looper...

Is there a mode where the looper can store a loop in memory even after the unit is shut off? Seems it's only resident in memory as long as you're in loop mode and then any change to different mode or scene and the loop is lost.

[strumminsix]

Guys guys guys. Don't take me for a dupe!



I was joking, dupe :phones

[screamtone]

We play Superstition in E. The keyboard player deals with it.

It seems like it would be easiest to have the keyboard player pitch shift his keyboard up a half step so he can still finger it as Eb (which is significantly easier to play that song in).

[Jon Silberman]

strumminsix, sorry, I'm dealing with barking dogs all over my office today, my sense of humor is suffering as a result. :)

screamtone, dig this: the keyboardist has no problem fingering it in E ... he says he thinks it doesn't sound as good that way. :p

[Jon Silberman]

Jon,

No, you can't set the tuner to a different pitch value but it will tune Eb Ab etc...
Does this make sense?
Thanks, Jeff (that's what the prior poster meant by "go chromatic").

[strumminsix]

No worries, Jon. IMO, changing keys for songs is bad practice. Going down that path leads to bands playing in only a few keys and that sound is boring and the songs never sound right.

Does the M13 have an input for the Variax guitar? I do believe that does alt tunings.

[Jon Silberman]

Good point. Perhaps I should more seriously consider simply detuning a half step for the particular song (really do need that low E [or Eb] for the riff).

[StompBoxBlues]

Okay, I finally got my M13 last night, and was able to hook it up and spend a few-three hours with it...

This is just first impressions, but I figure they can be useful too...for others that first get theirs...just sharing experience.

First off, ME LIKE.... it is a very nice unit, has a lot of great sounds, and I only touched the surface last night. So far, just tried it with my Classic30 (which was set how I like it....a wonderful change from trying to set it "flat EQ" like one does with other ME's with amp modelling)

- OD's; The SECOND thing I did (after of browsing scenes, effects, etc.) after getting to know it was made a scene that had 12 of the OD's. I went through and adjusted each one, tried different gain settings, different outputs and EQ on them, and just had a ball.
Just want to say here, I am in disagreement with the folks (at least so far) that don't think much of the OD's. As Jon said, if the gain is high (halfway or more) many or most of them sound harsh...HOME, ALONE...
I recognize the sound, as it is the sound that suddenly sounds tons smoother in a band, and also is a good chance it cuts through well. But even alone, tame the gain, raise output seems to help. I noticed some (not all) of the OD's worked pretty will with guitar volume. They cleaned up a good deal, not as well as my favorite OD's but totally acceptible, and I found them inspiring...in fact, I had a hard time not playing.
In short, I REALLY like the OD's. Seems even Line6 is kinda modest about them as in the effects list, they start with DELAY, OD is further back, which is not the "normal" default order of presenting the wares.

- Fuzzes. Sorry...forget them. There aren't many but I didn't get any "fuzz cleanup" with guitar volume adjusting, and they are VERY harsh...when not set so harsh, they sound like the OD patches. It is like a fuzz with the guitar stuck on 10, and the fuzz knob on 10.

I really only had time to go in some depth on the OD stuff. So far (need more time I think) I wasn't crazy about most of the Compressor stuff, but there was one I liked (RED I think it was).

One small gripe, or two (keeping in mind, I am definitely keeping the unit, and LIKE it very much. It met my expectations because I have bought a few modelling/ME units before and it is always some compromise so I wasn't expecting the world...)

- The filter and modulation patches...MANY of them (even if the original pedal didn't have it) ought to have OUTPUT control. I notice in some that MIX seems to be output...I know it really is mix, but as I raise it I get back the lost signal. In my mind, if you turn mix down to zero you ought to have the same sound as that effect off more or less, but the volume was NOT, it was way lower. (I can double check this).

- I am not an idiot, but felt like one....because I am used to other pedals I initially had a hard time changing a pedal-type (like from MOD to DELAY) because (and I reread it several times :o) kept pushing the one knob WHILE trying to turn it, which only chose other patches in that same TYPE. I also hit it once, and at some point it was blinking....finally after some minutes I almost accidentally pushed in on it twice without turning and saw it change color to indicate another type. :jo.

- I LIKE that they don't include a headphone jack. It's clear this is made to be used like real pedals.

- I LIKE a lot of things about it so far, including the OD's, in fact I like the OD's very much but feel they could have tried for a few different, smoother ones...

- I thought a lot about this...I could be wrong, but in general I think that
MOST amps that have effects loops, also have REVERB. Most amps that don't have reverb don't have effects loops, and most often folk use the amp itself for OD. What I am getting at here, it's cool that there are so many 'verb sounds but if I had some choices, I'd have preferred more of other types of pedals.

- There are a number of synth, etc. that I will have to play around with a lot to find out how to use...many of them in the factory default....funny, weird, unmusical and just weird, but one can mix them so they are more subtle maybe.

Just initial impressions, so far I would give the pedal a good solid B, grading very hard. The user interface would get an A for sure, one change though...I would want the "dim" LEDS to be slightly dimmer....sometimes some colors it is hard to see which of the three (A,B, C) is THE one on.

Also, I REALLY wish Line6 had designed a real, honest-to-god fuzz (imagine a real transistor fuzz, Analogman Sunface or something in there) circuit in along with the digital, right at the beginning. If I'm dreaming, a real fuzz and real OD feeding virtual OD's (when chosen), and all the rest would have brought it to a whole new level!

[richrenken]

I will make the suggestion. Or if this has been thought of why we haven't tried it.

Ah, for the first time it's now making sense.

Rich, you're the epitome of cool when it comes to considering and answering folk's questions and issues, I really mean it! In this spirit, at some future point, why not treat the model defaults issue exactly as you already treat "scene autosave" versus "manual": configure the pedal stock with "restore model defaults" as the default setting but let the user decide whether to enter setup and change the default setting to "save model edits?"

[StompBoxBlues]

I will make the suggestion. Or if this has been thought of why we haven't tried it.

I wasn't totally understanding the issue here, but now I get it.
Jons point is very good.

I would add another little "wish"... on my VS1880 recorder, I have a feature I can turn on or off, "Match fader" or "fader jump". This too would be cool to have user selectable.

It would mean, on any preset I want to adjust:

Match Fader= you have to move the knob to match where it is currently set (maybe also even with an indicator to tell you you NOW have matched it when you get there) before it will adjust anything. This is GREAT for favorite patches that you have set "just right" but because of room acoustics, amp, guitar, something you just need to make a VERY slight adjustment...

Fader Jump= how it is now. When I begin to move a fader the current parameter jumps to where it is when I begin to move it.

I (as mentioned in my post above) would really have liked to see output faders for the mod and filter effects too....

Can I also ask, how do I find out my firmware version?

I think it is incredibly SMART of Line6 to have you (and I belive others) canvass the relavent forums, answering questions, listening, explaining...just seems like a great idea, and seems like this is a campaign more or less (which I think is well done)! You are doing Line6 a great service by being around and representing them.

[richrenken]

Question on the Looper...

Is there a mode where the looper can store a loop in memory even after the unit is shut off? Seems it's only resident in memory as long as you're in loop mode and then any change to different mode or scene and the loop is lost.

There is no way to save a loop when it is shut off. Any loop you made is available as long as you are within the current scene. So you don't have to be in loop mode for it to save the loop. If you create a loop and hit stop and get out of looper mode and then go back in and hit start, you loop will be there. Going to another scene gets rid of your loop and using the tuner gets rid of it as well.

[richrenken]

I wasn't totally understanding the issue here, but now I get it.
Jons point is very good.

I would add another little "wish"... on my VS1880 recorder, I have a feature I can turn on or off, "Match fader" or "fader jump". This too would be cool to have user selectable.

It would mean, on any preset I want to adjust:

Match Fader= you have to move the knob to match where it is currently set (maybe also even with an indicator to tell you you NOW have matched it when you get there) before it will adjust anything. This is GREAT for favorite patches that you have set "just right" but because of room acoustics, amp, guitar, something you just need to make a VERY slight adjustment...

Fader Jump= how it is now. When I begin to move a fader the current parameter jumps to where it is when I begin to move it.

I (as mentioned in my post above) would really have liked to see output faders for the mod and filter effects too....

Can I also ask, how do I find out my firmware version?

I think it is incredibly SMART of Line6 to have you (and I belive others) canvass the relavent forums, answering questions, listening, explaining...just seems like a great idea, and seems like this is a campaign more or less (which I think is well done)! You are doing Line6 a great service by being around and representing them.

Actually you are asking for something we call "relative" mode. Jon was asking for a way to save your own model defaults. So that if you set up a cool screamer the next time in a different spot you bring it up it comes up the way you saved it. Right now, Line 6 sets the model default.
"relative" mode would be cool, I am going to revisit that as well.

there is no output control on the actual effect. No output control on a Phase 90 or MXR Flanger. What I am going to do is take another run at getting the levels right and the interaction of the controls right.

Engage the tuner. The Firmware version should be there. Either 1.02 or 1.04.

I am in here on my own, a couple of my beta guys hipped me to you guys and the HRI guys. Plus I hang in our own forums. As a Product Manager, I take being the voice of the customer very seriously, so I read all the thoughts and loves and especially the hates about the gear I manage to make the current gear better or have those ideas as we do the next piece and the next piece. I can't implement everything but I can get much closer by trying. :)

[StompBoxBlues]

Actually you are asking for something we call "relative" mode. Jon was asking for a way to save your own model defaults. So that if you set up a cool screamer the next time in a different spot you bring it up it comes up the way you saved it. Right now, Line 6 sets the model default.
"relative" mode would be cool, I am going to revisit that as well.

there is no output control on the actual effect. No output control on a Phase 90 or MXR Flanger. What I am going to do is take another run at getting the levels right and the interaction of the controls right.

Engage the tuner. The Firmware version should be there. Either 1.02 or 1.04.

I am in here on my own, a couple of my beta guys hipped me to you guys and the HRI guys. Plus I hang in our own forums. As a Product Manager, I take being the voice of the customer very seriously, so I read all the thoughts and loves and especially the hates about the gear I manage to make the current gear better or have those ideas as we do the next piece and the next piece. I can't implement everything but I can get much closer by trying. :)

Thanks, you're doing a great job.

Seperate from the "relative" mode thing, what do you think about the knob/fader thing? You could see that both "jump" and "match" types would be of use in different situations.

I know mostly I prefer match....it takes to little to match it, and you you "go from where you are" instead of if the knob happens to be full up when you start to move it the "output" say would jump from a more or less ok level to WAY too high...if you used "match" (have to match the current setting before changing the parameter) that wouldn't happen..

Just a thought. I know I would like that ability. Either as default or as user choice.

[StompBoxBlues]

Actually you are asking for something we call "relative" mode. Jon was asking for a way to save your own model defaults. So that if you set up a cool screamer the next time in a different spot you bring it up it comes up the way you saved it. Right now, Line 6 sets the model default.
"relative" mode would be cool, I am going to revisit that as well.

there is no output control on the actual effect. No output control on a Phase 90 or MXR Flanger. What I am going to do is take another run at getting the levels right and the interaction of the controls right.

Engage the tuner. The Firmware version should be there. Either 1.02 or 1.04.

I am in here on my own, a couple of my beta guys hipped me to you guys and the HRI guys. Plus I hang in our own forums. As a Product Manager, I take being the voice of the customer very seriously, so I read all the thoughts and loves and especially the hates about the gear I manage to make the current gear better or have those ideas as we do the next piece and the next piece. I can't implement everything but I can get much closer by trying. :)

Thanks, you're doing a great job.

Seperate from the "relative" mode thing, what do you think about the knob/fader thing? You could see that both "jump" and "match" types would be of use in different situations.

I know mostly I prefer match....it takes to little to match it, and you you "go from where you are" instead of if the knob happens to be full up when you start to move it the "output" say would jump from a more or less ok level to WAY too high...if you used "match" (have to match the current setting before changing the parameter) that wouldn't happen..

Just a thought. I know I would like that ability. Either as default or as user choice.

[Jon Silberman]

I am in here on my own, a couple of my beta guys hipped me to you guys and the HRI guys. Plus I hang in our own forums. As a Product Manager, I take being the voice of the customer very seriously, so I read all the thoughts and loves and especially the hates about the gear I manage to make the current gear better or have those ideas as we do the next piece and the next piece. I can't implement everything but I can get much closer by trying. :)
Thanks, Rich. To reiterate, we really appreciate you stopping by to listen to and consider our suggestions. I hope we all are able to continue to present them calmly and respectfully so you will actually look forward to continue to visit and share your knowledge.

[5E3]

Also, I REALLY wish Line6 had designed a real, honest-to-god fuzz (imagine a real transistor fuzz, Analogman Sunface or something in there) circuit in along with the digital, right at the beginning. If I'm dreaming, a real fuzz and real OD feeding virtual OD's (when chosen), and all the rest would have brought it to a whole new level!
Keep in mind that all of the FX models Line 6 has put into the M13 are software. Line 6 could provide new and/or improved models in future software updates. Maybe your wish will come true :)

[Jon Silberman]

Interesting. At last night's practice, I was wondering if I was imagining it.

The distortions are very diverse, many are immediately identifiable, others are much more 'exotic' but still interesting. Generally, they’re much more compressed than their original models, this being, in my opinion, much more noticeable on overdrives.

http://electric-guitar-multi-effects.line-6.en.audiofanzine.com/products/reviews/index,page,3,idproduit,126512,mao,m13_stompbox_mod eler.html

Guess I wasn't.

FWIW, I think this is what people are meaning when they're saying the distortion models turn them off for being "too digital." I'd also put this issue in the "future upgrades" hopper.

And here's the reviewers ultimate conclusions.


http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/plus.gif Vast Collection of Effects
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/plus.gif Flexible Usage
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/plus.gif Integrated Looper & Tuner
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/plus.gif Great Modulations and Delays
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/plus.gif A New Approach to Multi-effects

http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/minus.gif Quality of Distortions Compared to the Rest
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/minus.gif MIDI Documentation Insufficient
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/minus.gif Not Possible to Remotely Switch Amp Channels
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/minus.gif Effects Editing: Knobs not sensitive enough
http://img.en.audiofanzine.com/img/v35/icones/minus.gif LCDs should have been tilted towards the front a little more for better visibility

http://electric-guitar-multi-effects.line-6.en.audiofanzine.com/products/reviews/index,page,5,idproduit,126512,mao,m13_stompbox_mod eler.html

Of the negatives, to me, the only significant one is the first.

[michael dukes]

Also, I REALLY wish Line6 had designed a real, honest-to-god fuzz (imagine a real transistor fuzz, Analogman Sunface or something in there) circuit in along with the digital, right at the beginning. If I'm dreaming, a real fuzz and real OD feeding virtual OD's (when chosen), and all the rest would have brought it to a whole new level!

My take exactly. Here's my current simple board (an original PedalTrain) with a wee Germanium Fuzz Face clone (thanks whoismarykelly) feeding the M13, the Skreddy Screw Driver Deluxe is in the M13's loop. You get the juicy Germanium up front, all the guitar-knob tonal response you could ask for. The Screw Driver sounds great feeding M13 modulations/delays/reverbs, and stacking various M13 dirt/fuzz models into the Screw Driver makes for some nice tones as well, all more complex and lively because the Skreddy is in the signal path. I have other pedals I also use in the studio, but this little board covers a surprising amount of ground. I've also swapped out the Fuzz Face clone for a Divided By 13 DynaRanger with equally satisfying results.

The only silly part (to me anyway) is using a Pedal Power II just to power the Screw Driver.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/writethis/M13Board.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

That might conflict with your signature line! :p

[michael dukes]

Ha! Actually, in some ways it really has simplified my workflow, with no compromise in the final result. But I totally hear you...

[StompBoxBlues]

So what do you guys think about fader match vs. jump?
I'm amazed it hasn't got any response, especially when one complaint is that the knobs are not sensitive enough, I think it would be just the thing to have to match current position before being able to change (so you could make small changes more easily...the visual if you have it somewhere set 3/4 of the way up, but the knob is at 0, when you move the knob you have it set at 0, and have to find your way again to where it was to just make a small change)...

Not overwhelming (or really any) response on that so maybe it is just me that would like that option.

Meant to mention too, I REALLY like the tuner are how it displays as you tune...just the right amount of "debounce", and I haven't tested the accuracy, but I sound just fine in tune after using it. Nice job on that I think.

Going to try more things tonight. Add an external wah, fuzz, see if I can get a Jimi setup for fun, vibe-like (can be chorus) first, with option to vibrato ("Hey Baby"), Octave, some "red house" delay, and see what else comes to mind.

My approach to this is to NOT do like I normally do, just throwing everything in patches, but build up slowly...picking what works best with the other effects (just like a pedalboard...if you start say with an OD, you want to pick (and set) downstream effects so they are interacting best with the OD as well as when the OD is off...etc.

[michael dukes]

Fader match would be really really nice, now that you mention it.

I like the tuner as well, I finid it more accurate than a TU-2 but less accurate than a Peterson virtual strobe. The one thing I'd change about it (admittedly I'm being picky here) is that I wish you didn't have to hold down the tap tempo button quite so long to get into tuner mode.

And I like your approach to integrating it slowly, FWIW. I'm not crazy about the vibe model, but be aware there is a Vibrato mode on the Analog Chorus (just like the CE-1 it emulates). Different effect I know, but I happen to think it sounds more natural and "right" than the vibe model or Leslie.

[Jon Silberman]

FWIW. I'm not crazy about the vibe model, but be aware there is a Vibrato mode on the Analog Chorus (just like the CE-1 it emulates). Different effect I know, but I happen to think it sounds more natural and "right" than the vibe model or Leslie.
Same with the CH-1, which I own. On any Boss chorus pedal with stereo outs (mono when you use just one of them), to transform it into vibrato, all you do is connect a short chord to nowhere to the other output.

[Chunky]

Hi folks,

I made it through the 56th page of posts then my brain melted so I have to ask ... Can the M13 be used to select presets on a Hughes & Kettner Switchblade via MIDI ? I'd love to be able to do away with the channel controller on my board if I bought one of these.

Tony

[StompBoxBlues]

Fader match would be really really nice, now that you mention it.

I like the tuner as well, I finid it more accurate than a TU-2 but less accurate than a Peterson virtual strobe. The one thing I'd change about it (admittedly I'm being picky here) is that I wish you didn't have to hold down the tap tempo button quite so long to get into tuner mode.

And I like your approach to integrating it slowly, FWIW. I'm not crazy about the vibe model, but be aware there is a Vibrato mode on the Analog Chorus (just like the CE-1 it emulates). Different effect I know, but I happen to think it sounds more natural and "right" than the vibe model or Leslie.


Thanks, I just had a little issue with this last night. Wife asleep, playing low (but there is a ton of volume on tap with this unit, even with the amp turned down!) and I went into either a boost or OD (can't remember which) and just wanted to adjust volume slightly, didn't notice that the knob was set up high and for a second there a HUGE sound comes out of my amp as I turn output down. I'm really beginning to feel this is necessary.

Also a totally different issue, but I love Jons point, about being able to load any effect with YOUR last saved values. This would be good on so many levels...for the first one usually does find one or more great settings for an effect, and often want this to be the start point. For the other, the current default settings, it all varies with taste, but essentially some of them as they are set default turn me off to the effect.

Also, minor complaint, but while I think I like some of the OD's a lot better than many have reported, there is a sameness to a lot of them and in them and filter effects I keep hearing an "artifact" that I can dial out but makes the effect "go away". The complaint though is that I wish they had concentrated on more models of the traditional type. To be honest, a lot of the filter effects, I have played around with but some of the less musical (when mix is set up) seem of limited use...I wish more had been put into vibe effects (and by the way THANKS for the tip! I'll try that!!), more OD models, etc.

Don't know if it could work, but since one can download through MIDI, wouldn't it be just really cool if one could access a library of sounds, pick out the ones one wants and configure a custom download (up to how many memory slots one has per type) your own effects?


I wondered last night if there is a way to copy an effect between scenes. I did save a scene, copied effects within a scene, but am thinking of dedicating a scene to my favorite effects, set how I like them, and used as sort of a pool for me to use in other scenes.

[richrenken]

So what do you guys think about fader match vs. jump?
I'm amazed it hasn't got any response, especially when one complaint is that the knobs are not sensitive enough, I think it would be just the thing to have to match current position before being able to change (so you could make small changes more easily...the visual if you have it somewhere set 3/4 of the way up, but the knob is at 0, when you move the knob you have it set at 0, and have to find your way again to where it was to just make a small change)...

Not overwhelming (or really any) response on that so maybe it is just me that would like that option.

So let me get this straight. If the bar, and therefor, say the treble is at three quarters but the knob is at a quarter, you want the bar to stay still until you turn the knob from a quarter up to three quarters and then they match and it "engages" so you can do a small tweak?

That may be cool. But what relative mode does is in this same scenario, you grab the knob and the knob travels from a quarter to 100% and the bar moves from three quarters to 100% or as you move the knob from a quarter to 0 the bar moves from three quarters to 0. Then they match and move back and forth together 1:1 again.

[nrJager]

First time post... and before i begin i want to thank Stilwel and Dognmoon. your demo's on youtube are what sold me on the M13 to begin with.


I have had my M13 for a little over a month now and so far the only thing surviving my original setup is my EB JR VP and my Morley Wah. However, I am looking @ simplifying even more.

I realize from watching Stilwel's demo's that the Axess FX1 can control the M13, but i am curious if the Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro would also work?

A friend and i are looking @ being able to setup presets to where 1 button would be assigned a certain effect(s) as well as changing the amp channel @ the same time.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[lizarddust]

. The one thing I'd change about it (admittedly I'm being picky here) is that I wish you didn't have to hold down the tap tempo button quite so long to get into tuner mode.
.

I totally agree. That would make quick tuning between songs easier.

[Jon Silberman]

To me, the issue of changing the time from "tapping" into the tuner from 3.2 to 2 seconds is several orders of magnitude lower in importance than fixing the substantive distortion/overdrive problems discussed here and elsewhere. Do the latter first!

[michael dukes]

To me, the issue of changing the time from "tapping" into the tuner from 3.2 to 2 seconds is several orders of magnitude lower in importance than fixing the substantive distortion/overdrive problems discussed here and elsewhere. Do the latter first!

No question about it. Hope I didn't imply otherwise...

[Jon Silberman]

No, you didn't, I was just sayin'! :)

BTW, was it you who was going to share his values for your Tron Up model selection? I'm still struggling with my own! :o

[FUSER]

Stupid question,
Has anyone tried to record a drum loop (or anything else for that matter) into the Looper using the guitar input?

[stilwel]

I think you guys complaining about the drives are completely nuts.

They are the main reason I'm using the M13!!!

Boost-Comp
Red Comp
Screamer
Facial Fuzz
Octave fuzz
Sub-Octave Fuzz
Fuzz Pi
Classic Distortion

I'm using all of these with great results.

[StompBoxBlues]

So let me get this straight. If the bar, and therefor, say the treble is at three quarters but the knob is at a quarter, you want the bar to stay still until you turn the knob from a quarter up to three quarters and then they match and it "engages" so you can do a small tweak?

That may be cool. But what relative mode does is in this same scenario, you grab the knob and the knob travels from a quarter to 100% and the bar moves from three quarters to 100% or as you move the knob from a quarter to 0 the bar moves from three quarters to 0. Then they match and move back and forth together 1:1 again.

The first paragraph, exactly! You have to match it (in this case, maybe when one starts moving a knob, the "meter" just shows a line, whatever, until you hit the same point as where it is now set, then fills in, or any indicator that you now have hit the same mark it was set to, even none would be okay...but the nice thing about indicator, you move fast to near the current mark then slowly so you can "match" where it is set...after you match if follows, 1:1).

I see what you mean abot "relative" and yeah, that would do it too.
Except...if the setting is 1/4 and the knob is at 100 percent??? what happens then? You can only move down and you maybe just want to nudge your setting UP a tiny bit...you lose where it is (no numeric indicator...in most cases) so you then have to find it again by ear.
Or worse, the opposite, the knob is at 0 from some other setting, the parameter sitting at 50% and you can now ONLY increase at first.

Don't you think match is better? If you had continous knobs like on the model select "relative" would work okay, but since not...it's better to get the knobs right where they were befor changing I think...

[stilwel]

SBB

I agree with you on this. I prefer the method of "capturing" the current setting before the knob has any effect.

[Guitarist4u36]

^^^^
:agree

[rollyfoster]

i like the drives except for one thing:

many of them have too many options. i wish they were set up like the originals (without bass, treble, mid) or had some way to defeat that feature and just have one "tone" knob like the original pedals (such as screamer and fuzz pi). i find myself tweaking too much and getting away from what would be the typical sound of those pedals.

i understand that at times it's better to have more options than less, but in this case i'd rather have less. it makes it kind of a PITA when switching guitars because now there are 3 knobs to adjust instead of one.

unless one of these EQ knobs actually functions like the "tone" knob would on a normal pedal.....

edit: in looking at the advanced manual, i guess it does. so that brings me to this: is it better to set bass and treble at 0, 50%, or 100% to best approximate the original design?

[stilwel]

50% is faithful to the original.

I always start out with Bass and treble at 50%. Adjust Drive, and tone (mid) to taste.
If necessary I then adjust bass treble for a more custom tone.

[TheFlash]

I just got my m13 today and after minimal time on it, I'm really digging the line6 drive model!

[Jon Silberman]

I'm learning a lot from the comments here. Tomorrow, I'm starting over on the models on my scratch pad. I'm going to can much of the "fancy" stuff and go back to basics with at least 3 different overdrives/distortions and 3 different compressors. Wish me luck! :eek:

[TheFlash]

Maybe it's because I'm just not a compressor guy, but each of the compressor models seems to kill my attack as soon as the sustain is up even the slightest bit from off. Any tips?

[benbenben]

I like the comp with the drive control, it REALLY adds to some clean plucking, but as a comp does, sounds not right when you start to strum and hit hard, so I have it just for plucking, really adds so much depth and sparkle!

[StompBoxBlues]

Maybe it's because I'm just not a compressor guy, but each of the compressor models seems to kill my attack as soon as the sustain is up even the slightest bit from off. Any tips?

Sadly no...I have the exact same problem. The Red I think is the least "poppy" of these, and I have no idea how faithful they are to the originals, but I have some compressors (real ones) and always bought ones that were way more subtle than this. There are several and though there are differences they are TOO much like each other. In fact that is kind of a recurring thing with me, the each effect type seems almost like they started with the same algorithm, and tweaked, but there is a similarity to them more than differences.

When I use compressors it is usually with a clean sound, and I usually set real ones to slightly even out things, volume, and not so much for sustain, and I want subtle compression on the attack.

It seems to me MANY people have remarked that the models aren't strikingly faithful to the originals, and most go on to say "but that really doesn't matter to me, I just look for the ones that sound best" which I think is safe to say is the main goal here anyway.

So I think it was a mistake to market as if it were "all these known pedals", when the strong point of the unit is the user interface, which is excellent.

I wish, instead of even trying (and I and others think, not acheiving) to model known pedals, and staying faithful to their options, it would have been MUCH better to just make their own pedal models (the Line6 OD and dist, which I believe are not modelled on any real pedal are two of the best in the Distortion section!) for the different types, and add options that are sensible...like "output" on pedals that in real life don't have the option.

Pedals in real life had production costs of the hardware (save a lot of money if you don't include that extra knob, with extra drilling, pot, wires, hookup, etc.) that in soft/firmware are much less expensive...the virtual knob, pot, wires are all there you can hook them up the virtual circuit with ease. So WHY then be so faithful to the LIMITATIONS of the real thing, and still (it is really HARD) not reproducing the sound?

When I use compressors, I use them for solos, but also MOST really on rythm.

By the way, did I miss it somewhere or is there NO EQ pedal in the whole box? A 7 or 10 band EQ could be exactly the thing to use before some effects after others...I know there are only 5 knobs available (4-band EQ with boost/cut would be fine!)
but it could really solve some issues with pedals that cut volume (EQ flat and just boost) or with pedal types that tend to get too boomy or thin sounding?

Maybe even feeding the compressors, could help eliminate the extra pop, etc.
I know I can put my GE-7 in the loop too, and am really tempted to try that.

I'm seeing response from others too that "fader match" would be really helpful. I'm not getting used to that "jump" and losing my place in a setting, having to try and get it back there, because some parameters are very touchy in control, just a nudge makes a big difference in some of the effects, so I get it "close" to where it was and only wanted to nudge it, but lose my place...

[StompBoxBlues]

Just wondering how many folks here use humbuckers (or both single and humbuckers) with the M13 and what you experience?

I tried the looper for the first time last night, and man...that could really come in handy for some things I am considering now (one man stuff with electric, small pub).

So far, I am liking the M13 a lot. There are some wonderful features in it, some fantastic patches, and when I am not concentrating on "just tone" of things, I find it eggs me on, the sounds I get, to play and play...and enjoy. I think some of the things that sound slightly harsh, etc. will turn out to be just the sound in a band mix...really lush delays for example from other ME's I have had just get LOST in band mixes, but these sound like they could cut through (and I can still set them for "lush").

OD's can sound harsh, but again, it is that kind of harsh that sounds smooth in a mix, and as Jon said, turn down gain and up output AND lower guitar volume and they clean up.

[TheFlash]

It seems to me MANY people have remarked that the models aren't strikingly faithful to the originals, and most go on to say "but that really doesn't matter to me, I just look for the ones that sound best" which I think is safe to say is the main goal here anyway.

So I think it was a mistake to market as if it were "all these known pedals", when the strong point of the unit is the user interface, which is excellent.

I wish, instead of even trying (and I and others think, not acheiving) to model known pedals, and staying faithful to their options, it would have been MUCH better to just make their own pedal models (the Line6 OD and dist, which I believe are not modelled on any real pedal are two of the best in the Distortion section!) for the different types, and add options that are sensible...like "output" on pedals that in real life don't have the option.

Remember what Line6 has to do to provide a product this powerful at such a low price point. They weren't trying to reinvent the wheel with this product. They advertise it as the dl4+mm4+dm4+fm4+verbzilla in one box. Those products have been around for a long time...longer than a lot of new-featured "bootique" versions of effects that we love to talk about here on TGP. They didn't even just re-package those boxes either, they did include a bunch of new delay models with the dry-through.

Rick has mentioned the idea of model packs that could be available to add into the m13 and I think that would be great. Their goal for the original model stompboxes was to be as faithful to the old-school effects as possible. I'm hoping they come out with improved versions of each effects like the modern stomp-box makers are doing in the analogue relm. These are a few that I know I'd make use of...there are probably tons more:

-overdrive with clean blend (pure drive)
-fet-based overdrive (liquid sunshine/fulltone mosfet)
-compressor with clean blend (tonepress)
-tremolo with wave symmetry control (pulsar/shapeshifter)
-micropog type effect



By the way, did I miss it somewhere or is there NO EQ pedal in the whole box? A 7 or 10 band EQ could be exactly the thing to use before some effects after others...I know there are only 5 knobs available (4-band EQ with boost/cut would be fine!)
but it could really solve some issues with pedals that cut volume (EQ flat and just boost) or with pedal types that tend to get too boomy or thin sounding?

Again, remember the limitations...an eq effect would take up one of the effects slots. They have the comp/boost/eq with 3 bands currently, a 7 band might be cool to have (could sculpt some of the filter effects really nicely I bet).


I'm seeing response from others too that "fader match" would be really helpful. I'm not getting used to that "jump" and losing my place in a setting, having to try and get it back there, because some parameters are very touchy in control, just a nudge makes a big difference in some of the effects, so I get it "close" to where it was and only wanted to nudge it, but lose my place...

Fader match would be a huge improvement for all the reasons you and others have already given.

Overall I think the m13 is an amazing product for its price point. I hope Line6 decides it's worth the development costs for brand new effects models. I know I'd buy a model pack that included some useful features added to the effects instead of remaining entirely faithful to the originals.

[Jon Silberman]

The Tube Comp w/the threshold set low is THE M13 COMPRESSOR MODEL for folks wanting more of a boost and mild comp, less squash.

Tube Comp
This is a Compressor model from the POD X3 family, based on a vintage Teletronix LA-2A® optical compressor. Adjust Threshold with Knob 1 and Level with Knob 2.

[Jon Silberman]

By the way, did I miss it somewhere or is there NO EQ pedal in the whole box? A 7 or 10 band EQ could be exactly the thing to use before some effects after others...I know there are only 5 knobs available (4-band EQ with boost/cut would be fine!)
but it could really solve some issues with pedals that cut volume (EQ flat and just boost) or with pedal types that tend to get too boomy or thin sounding?
EXCELLENT point. If I had this available to me, most of my Tron-Up issues would be solved.

Again, Rich, I hope that when you return to read all of the wish lists we have here concerning the M13, our wishes continue to appear in the positive spirit of caring to improve a device we already have bought and dig. :)

[zeppo]

The Tube Comp w/the threshold set low is THE M13 COMPRESSOR MODEL for folks wanting more of a boost and mild comp, less squash.

Initially used that one, it is great but I've ended up with the boost comp as my go-to for the tweakability of the parameters and the cut through a band. Both are great though.

h.

[StompBoxBlues]

Remember what Line6 has to do to provide a product this powerful at such a low price point. They weren't trying to reinvent the wheel with this product. They advertise it as the dl4+mm4+dm4+fm4+verbzilla in one box. Those products have been around for a long time...longer than a lot of new-featured "bootique" versions of effects that we love to talk about here on TGP. They didn't even just re-package those boxes either, they did include a bunch of new delay models with the dry-through.

Rick has mentioned the idea of model packs that could be available to add into the m13 and I think that would be great. Their goal for the original model stompboxes was to be as faithful to the old-school effects as possible. I'm hoping they come out with improved versions of each effects like the modern stomp-box makers are doing in the analogue relm. These are a few that I know I'd make use of...there are probably tons more:

-overdrive with clean blend (pure drive)
-fet-based overdrive (liquid sunshine/fulltone mosfet)
-compressor with clean blend (tonepress)
-tremolo with wave symmetry control (pulsar/shapeshifter)
-micropog type effect




Again, remember the limitations...an eq effect would take up one of the effects slots. They have the comp/boost/eq with 3 bands currently, a 7 band might be cool to have (could sculpt some of the filter effects really nicely I bet).



Fader match would be a huge improvement for all the reasons you and others have already given.

Overall I think the m13 is an amazing product for its price point. I hope Line6 decides it's worth the development costs for brand new effects models. I know I'd buy a model pack that included some useful features added to the effects instead of remaining entirely faithful to the originals.


All good points, and especially that yes...this isn't dissing or ragging on the thing, it is just that they came so close to getting it perfect with the interface, and a lot of the models are very cool, as always with ME, each person finds models they don't really see a use for, but it definitely is in the spirit of "how to even improve this".

I like your wish list of models. I don't see a problem with a pure EQ pedal "taking up a slot", when they offer synth filters, etc. that I may never be able to use, an EQ is an all around fixer, that definitely would be useful.

I also wish they had tried a hand at wah models instead of a generic...
but had decided anyway that I will be using my 535-Q wah, also an outboard BJFE Pink Purple fuzz with the M13, so that is two pedals added...an EQ would make three and I feel almost is necessary so I'm maybe up to three with power supply.

I really hoped the M13 would be just M13 + wah...

I am not selling, or thinking of it, I do really like the unit, and am still getting to know it, and I am very excited to hear what the next release brings.

By the way, KUDOS to them on that "Bridge of Vibes" scene, VERY nice and a great start point for vibe sound.

[Jon Silberman]

Agreed. I'm definitely keeping mine, I look forward to continuing to experiment with and use it for a long time. :)

[TheFlash]

EXCELLENT point. If I had this available to me, most of my Tron-Up issues would be solved.

Again, Rich, I hope that when you return to read all of the wish lists we have here concerning the M13, our wishes continue to appear in the positive spirit of caring to improve a device we already have bought and dig. :)

I forgot whether you already talked about trying this, but would the boost/comp/eq with compression off give you enough eq power to "help" your tron up patch?

[StompBoxBlues]

I've been posting a lot (and long) here lately, just excited about the pedal and the possibilities.

Still trying to find out if I can copy a model (with my settings) from one scene to another existing scene. I don't think I can but that's okay.

I'm seeing that I will use some time getting scenes set up, and then turn off auto save...I find (or am I wrong) myself wishing it could be auto save for pedal models, but manual save for scenes. I pretty often want to save changes to pedals right away...if not I'd make a scene copy with the base settings, etc., but say you have a scene that when you turn on the scene you want every pedal on, but at the end of the song you turn off two...you will have to remember always to turn them ON again later the next time you play the song. Otherwise it just stays as you left it. Again, pedal models, even pedal choices autosave is VERY cool, but the default of which pedals on in a scene I would want to explicitly set once then forget.

One last thing, I know with a lot of ME's I mostly use them mono...but tonight tried some stereo (just using the two outs, to input of two amps) and it was REALLY nice...a lot of delays, and other effects are stereo, and the depth you suddenly get is very rewarding.

Was loving the Tubescreamer model tonight. Also wandered into the DL scene, and couldn't tear myself away to get back to working on a current song...very cool delays (4) all in a row heh! Nice!

Thinking more about the EQ, and realized of course...an outboard one wouldn't much help because I need it to change with scenes, and to turn on at the same time...wish there was dedicated non-compressor EQ. I can try using a Screamer model maybe with gain set to nothing and use tone control.

[TheFlash]

Still trying to find out if I can copy a model (with my settings) from one scene to another existing scene. I don't think I can but that's okay.

I've been wondering the same thing...the way I want to use this is to have one scene as my effects creation scene where I can mess around with an effect until I've really dialed it in. Once I have something tweaked perfectly, I'd like to be able to take that setting and copy it to a bunch of my other scenes. So far, no dice.


Thinking more about the EQ, and realized of course...an outboard one wouldn't much help because I need it to change with scenes, and to turn on at the same time...wish there was dedicated non-compressor EQ. I can try using a Screamer model maybe with gain set to nothing and use tone control.
If you can find one of these (discontinued) it would give you 10 presets of 10 band eq. http://www.amptone.com/bosseq20advancedeq.htm

[Jon Silberman]

I forgot whether you already talked about trying this, but would the boost/comp/eq with compression off give you enough eq power to "help" your tron up patch?
Actually, after quite a bit of experimentation, this is what's working best for me (Tron Up 1st, running into Blue Comp Treble).

I would really dig hearing back from other Tron Up users as to how your settings compare to mine.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/355646681.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/355646693.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

And here's my scratch pad scene as of tonight - just rearranged and changed a whole bunch of models and their order on the scene. This is what I need for most of my band's current repertoire:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/355646675.jpg

1st column, top to bottom:
- Tube Screamer
- Tube Delay Dry (slap-back setting for rockabilly)
- Red Comp (great together with the Tube Driver for fat lead slide, e.g., ABB)

2nd column, top to bottom:
- Comp Boost (configured for thinner-sounding background slide)
- Tri-Chorus
- Tube Driver

3rd column, top to bottom:
- Tron Up (AW = auto wah)
- Delay (longer setting for leads)
- Phaser

4th column, top to bottom:
- Blue Comp Treb
- Octo-Reverb
- Tube Comp (configured for clean boost)

[Chunky]

Any tips on calibrating expression pedals ? I'm using an Ernie Ball 25k pedal with a Y TRS cable into the M13. I can control parameters but there seems to be a certain randomness about it. On some effects toe down takes a given parameter to its maximum value yet on others heel down does the same. Is there a way to calibrate the expression pedals ?

[TheFlash]

Put the toe all the way down on the expression pedal and set the parameter how you want it with the toe all the way down. Then once it's set, put the heel all the way down on the expression pedal and set the parameter how you want it in that position. Viola.

It should work the other way too (heel down first then toe).

[finnster]

And here's my scratch pad scene as of tonight - just rearranged and changed a whole bunch of models and their order on the scene. This is what I need for most of my band's current repertoire:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/355646675.jpg

1st column, top to bottom:
- Tube Screamer
- Tube Delay Dry (slap-back setting for rockabilly)
- Red Comp (great together with the Tube Driver for fat lead slide, e.g., ABB)

2nd column, top to bottom:
- Comp Boost (configured for thinner-sounding background slide)
- Tri-Chorus
- Tube Driver

3rd column, top to bottom:
- Tron Up (AW = auto wah)
- Delay (longer setting for leads)
- Phaser

4th column, top to bottom:
- Blue Comp Treb
- Octo-Reverb
- Tube Comp (configured for clean boost)

Awesome Jon....great idea!

[Jon Silberman]

Awesome Jon....great idea!
Between duct tape and masking tape, 99% of the word's problems can be solved. :p

[Mincer]

Any tips on calibrating expression pedals ? I'm using an Ernie Ball 25k pedal with a Y TRS cable into the M13. ?

All you need is a regular cable into the EB VP's out jack and nothing plugged into the in jack, unless you have the Y end plugged into both exp pedal input 1 & 2 on the M13.

[Chunky]

Put the toe all the way down on the expression pedal and set the parameter how you want it with the toe all the way down. Then once it's set, put the heel all the way down on the expression pedal and set the parameter how you want it in that position. Viola.

It should work the other way too (heel down first then toe).

Great, will give it a try, many thanks

[Chunky]

All you need is a regular cable into the EB VP's out jack and nothing plugged into the in jack, unless you have the Y end plugged into both exp pedal input 1 & 2 on the M13.

Really ? I'll try that as it would simplify my board cabling, thanks for the tip.

[TheFlash]

I spent about 20 minutes today with the m13 and one of my favorite overdrives, the Addrock NSOY, to see if I could get the m13 to be in the ballpark. The NSOY has sent so many other overdrives I've tried to the emporium, I've lost count. So I figured this test would be challenging to say the least for the m13. The NSOY is SMOOOOOOTH and is bit compressed but without sacrificing any clarity. It doesn't have a mid-hump like a standard tube screamer, and so I wasn't surprised to find that the tube overdrive model gave me the best results in trying to cop this particular pedal. After a few minutes of twiddling I feel like I got about 90% of the way there. After really fine-tuning the eq on the tube overdrive I could get really close to the NSOY, but not quite. The attack and decay felt very similar...the smoothness was definitely there...but the NSOY still has the edge in clarity. There was a slight boxiness in the m13 that I couldn't eq out in the small amount of time I was tweaking. The NSOY also had way more volume available than the tube overdrive model. I think the level knob on the NSOY was at about 35-30% and the level bar on the m13 was at about 65%. Overall though, the m13 performed well at matching the sound and feel of one of my favorite pedals. I'm most cirtainly in the honeymoon phase with this box, but it's basic functionality and bread 'n butter sounds are performing really well for me so far.

[Jon Silberman]

Flash, could you possibly post a pic of your Tube Overdrive settings?

Myself, I've been spending considerable time playing with just the distortion/overdrive models as those are the ones I'm finding most challenging. The main problem is the persistent compression in all of the models.

I'm sure I'm not imagining this because the same guitar that I use with my regular board, when I switch on a S-S-H guitar from S middle to H neck, there's a huge volume/boost difference in my analog Reverend Drivetrain's (a Tube Screamer-based model) response. Using the Screamer setting on the M13, relatively speaking, there's way less of a change within all possible Screamer settings.

This is, I believe, not a function per se of the volume of the model, rather, it's caused by the ever-present compression/limiting.

My way around it is I've changed my models on my main scene (yes, the picture I posted in my prior post is already outdated :o ) to include both a Screamer and Tube Overdrive model in the same bank. Now, instead of moving to the humbucker for leads, I switch models to one pre-configured to be louder and more cutting. But I feel this is a compromise.

[nstokes]

Flash, could you possibly post a pic of your Tube Overdrive settings?


Exactly the reason we're doing http://www.dialedtone.com :D

[screamtone]

Exactly the reason we're doing http://www.dialedtone.com :D

When do you think this will go live?

[nstokes]

When do you think this will go live?

We hope to have it ready for everyone who is signed up to start inputing their favorite settings as soon as possible.

[dognmoon]

I spent about 20 minutes today with the m13 and one of my favorite overdrives, the Addrock NSOY, to see if I could get the m13 to be in the ballpark. The NSOY has sent so many other overdrives I've tried to the emporium, I've lost count. So I figured this test would be challenging to say the least for the m13. The NSOY is SMOOOOOOTH and is bit compressed but without sacrificing any clarity. It doesn't have a mid-hump like a standard tube screamer, and so I wasn't surprised to find that the tube overdrive model gave me the best results in trying to cop this particular pedal. After a few minutes of twiddling I feel like I got about 90% of the way there. After really fine-tuning the eq on the tube overdrive I could get really close to the NSOY, but not quite. The attack and decay felt very similar...the smoothness was definitely there...but the NSOY still has the edge in clarity. There was a slight boxiness in the m13 that I couldn't eq out in the small amount of time I was tweaking. The NSOY also had way more volume available than the tube overdrive model. I think the level knob on the NSOY was at about 35-30% and the level bar on the m13 was at about 65%. Overall though, the m13 performed well at matching the sound and feel of one of my favorite pedals. I'm most cirtainly in the honeymoon phase with this box, but it's basic functionality and bread 'n butter sounds are performing really well for me so far.

When I compared the M13 to Egnater MOD50 back in September, I found the results to be the same as yours. I mean, the MOD50 still had more "space"... more dimension? I dunno, it just had a little sumpin' sumpin' that the M13 Tube Drive model lacked. BUT, that difference became imperceptible once I played with a band. It didn't even feel different which is the niggle of most guitarists when talking about digital tones.

Speaking of drive models, I think I'm gonna post a little rant on modeled drives, specifically in the M13, later today in a new thread. I used a bunch of drives on a sideman gig last night and I have plenty to get off my chest. :)

[nstokes]

Speaking of drive models, I think I'm gonna post a little rant on modeled drives, specifically in the M13, later today in a new thread. I used a bunch of drives on a sideman gig last night and I have plenty to get off my chest. :)

Looking forward to reading that!

[Jon Silberman]

I signed up and, in response, was told, "We'll email you when we launch."

Don't be late! :)

[TheFlash]

I'll try to post pics of 3 drive settings I've come up with today (1 tube drive, 1 screamer, 1 line6 drive). I haven't had the chance to use these in a band situation yet, so I'm not quite sure what to think...but I think all three sound pretty good.

HOWEVER...I did notice something very interesting yesterday. My main two overdrives are a Menatone Red Snapper and an Addrock NSOY. I got the tube driver model to sound pretty close to my favorite setting on the NSOY. I got the screamer model to get in the ballpark of the Red Snapper (not nearly as close though, the RS is a special overdrive to my ears). But the two line6 models stacked together don't sound or react anywhere near the same as my pedals stacked together. It didn't sound the same and it cirtainly didn't feel the same. The pedals stacked together sounded much better and clearer. The line 6 models together got "mushy" and I didn't have either model with the gain over 50%. Now with the m13 only having 4 effects available at one time, I'm not hoping to stack more than one dirt model at a time. I'd rather find single overdrive patches that sound good. I think there are some good tones to be found in the dirt models the m13 offers, but so far I have not been impressed with stacking them together like I do with my individual pedals.

[Jon Silberman]

Thanks, Flash, and in return, by this weekend, I'll post some pics of my own Screamer and Tube Drive settings. I also have come up with a fuzz setting I like a lot (specially for our version of Are You Gonna Go My Way).

By the way, I can't use the two Line 6 distortion models, they are extremely noisy with my setup, noisier than just about anything else.

By far and away - nothing else is close - I greatly prefer the Screamer and Tube Overdrive models within the distortion group.

[mtmartin71]

So I'm trying to eliminate some possibilities and hoping someone can help me with this. I'm running the 4CM with my Budda. I use effects in the loop for my two humbucker guitars and then use effects in the front for my Strat to get it similar volume levels and for tunes I need a whammy. I tried it with the Pedalsnake. It's powered and completely run through that. I noticed a few things. First and most troubling, when switching from DSP bypass to True Bypass, the M13 would get fishy on me. Basically the switches on the M13 would go from changing on and off effects to also changing channels on my Budda Superdrive...AND turning off and on the effects. I think I could resolve that by changing from auto to momentary latch. I noticed as well that the footswitch would be rendered useless. Weird! I tried changing it from DSP to True Bypass because I was getting a clanky sound on delays and reverbs in the Budda's loop and it was more prone to feedback. Lot of stuff to navigate and get down before my gig this Friday. I guess the main thing is should the M13 change the pedals like that? I will switch back to regular cables and straight power to take a look. I'm thinking it's an issue with the Pedalsnake and how it routes the audio. It may not support the 4CM method that I'm trying on the Budda. I'm splitting one of the Pedalsnake channels L&R for the effects loop.

[DavidE]

How could the M13 change channels on your amp? Does it have midi control??? I don't get it.

I used my M13 with my Budda Superdrive 30 with the 4cm and it worked flawlessly.

[mtmartin71]

How could the M13 change channels on your amp? Does it have midi control??? I don't get it.

I used my M13 with my Budda Superdrive 30 with the 4cm and it worked flawlessly.

I don't get it either. I think it's the Pedalsnake. That's the only thing that makes any sense on it. There must be a difference in the way True Bypass and DSP is sending a signal and the Pedalsnake might not be able to sort that out such that it is sending a signal through the footswitch...or, the power is not right that's being delivered through the Pedalsnake. I didn't have this problem when I was just using regular cables so I don't know.

[TheFlash]

Here are the settings for the three drives I'm enjoying so far.
Warning...these are tweaked for my Fender PRRI amp and have not been tested in a band setting...so as always YMMV :)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/TheFlash26/DSC_0174.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/TheFlash26/DSC_0175.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/TheFlash26/DSC_0176.jpg

[lizarddust]

I saw this video on Guitar Player Magazine's website. It is the guy from Voodoo Labs explaining how to get the sounds of Hendrix, Van Halen, and Eric Johnson.

http://guitarplayertv.com/index.html?channel=pedalfx&videofile=

He got a spot on Eric Johnson sound first through a cranked Marshall (not surprising).

But then he took a clean Fender amp and got a great Marshall style sound out of it by placing a DOD 250+ pedal with the highs cut (it is the Overdrive model in the M13) in front of it. He then ran the signal as follows--
Tube Driver>echo>DOD 250+>Fender Amp.

I mimicked this setup with the M13 and was able to get closer to a cranked Marshall sound that I have ever been with a clean Fender style amp (I use and Oldfield Custom Clubmaster, similar to a tweed bassman with a 15")

I put the Overdrive model last in the chain and turned the mids up, the Bass turned up a little and turned the highs almost all the way down.

This lets me have a chimey clean sound without the fizzy drive sound you get when running a drive pedal through a bright amp.

Put a Tube Drive model with the Mids cut way back and the treble cut in front of the overdrive and you can get that dark EJ style tone from a Fender amp. Put a Classic Distortion in front of the Overdrive and you are on your way to EVH's brown sound.

Personally I'm not trying to mimic anyones sound but it was a great discovery for me on how to get a Marshally sound out of my Fendery amp. I was beginning to lean towards a two amp clean/dirty rig but I really prefer the simplicity of a one amp setup.

Anyway I spent all day programming my M13 yesterday and I love it. I've used it on many gigs and a couple of recording sessions with great results.

I still use a Pure Drive a my main drive pedal but I am using some of the M13's drives and fuzzes with great results.

[connectionsguit]

thanks for that, looking forward to trying it out

[StompBoxBlues]

Is richRenken not posting anymore here?

[richrenken]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/355646675.jpg



Love the tape. Looks like a pro board, like a bradshaw switcher.

[richrenken]

Is richRenken not posting anymore here?

Who is richrenken? :) Of course I am.

Been busy. I do read every post and catch up whenever possible.

[Jon Silberman]

I hate to post this but perhaps the collective advice here can help keep me in the fold. I've come to a firm conclusion: for my basic overdrive tones, I can't live with the M13's apparent compression of every one of the models. It's killing my dynamics and making the whole experience less enjoyable and my playing less inspired.

If I can't find a way around it by Saturday, I'm probably going to return the unit (we all mock GC but thank The Entity Who May Not Be Mentioned On The Forum for their 30-day return policy).

I was going to just do it. Then I thought, OK, let me first, tonight or tomorrow, test the unit with one of my analog drives feeding into it.

My question for the erudite and intelligent masses here is, who's doing this now and is it working for you? Specifically, when you run your analog drive into your M13 and then turn on other effects, are you able to maintain your dynamics as facilitated by the drive or does turning on any or all followup M13 model(s) squash 'em just the same?

I really feel bad about this. The user interface and simplicity of the M13 are sheer genius but all that's lost if I can't maintain my playing dynamics given my personal style of playing which relies super heavily on them.

Thanks.

[StompBoxBlues]

I hate to post this but perhaps the collective advice here can help keep me in the fold. I've come to a firm conclusion: for my basic overdrive tones, I can't live with the M13's apparent compression of every one of the models. It's killing my dynamics and making the whole experience less enjoyable and my playing less inspired.

If I can't find a way around it by Saturday, I'm probably going to return the unit (we all mock GC but thank The Entity Who May Not Be Mentioned On The Forum for their 30-day return policy).

I was going to just do it. Then I thought, OK, let me first, tonight or tomorrow, test the unit with one of my analog drives feeding into it.

My question for the erudite and intelligent masses here is, who's doing this now and is it working for you? Specifically, when you run your analog drive into your M13 and then turn on other effects, are you able to maintain your dynamics as facilitated by the drive or does turning on any or all followup M13 model(s) squash 'em just the same?

I really feel bad about this. The user interface and simplicity of the M13 are sheer genius but all that's lost if I can't maintain my playing dynamics given my personal style of playing which relies super heavily on them.

Thanks.

That's a shame, you have jumped in with both feet on the M13, and seemed to me to be enjoying the hell out of it, and learning fast what works and doesn't.

Just wondering, what guitar(s) are you using with it? What kind of pickups? Because though I complain that there is a "sameness" about all of the OD patches, they inspire me and I am totally a "touch" player kind of person, and love dynamics, and noticed on some OD models (seems to me more than others) when I lower the guitar volume I can get to a decent (it's not 100% like my Zendrive, OCD, or Klon, but it is ballpark...it's there, just not in spades) sweet spot where lighter picking gets cleaned up, dig in and it growls a little and all.

I actually DO get inspired by the ODs, and this even though I am hearing that sameness...there are differences in the models, and I try to exploit them.

I still hope and wish for the "fader match" in later versions. etc. other small issues, but have grown very much to like the unit as a whole.
I won't be selling/returning mine anytime soon.

The other night I went stereo (I purposely waited til I got used to mono, because I think ANYTHING almost stereo between two amps tends to bowl me over...it's "cheating" almost) and some of the delays, mod effects are really stunning coming out of two amps...

If you return it, are you planning then on the Nova or another?

[Jon Silberman]

I've looked closely into the Nova. It looks interesting, might try one. (Might actually try one whether I keep the M13 or not and then sell the one I like less). But actually, my fallback plan is my prior big & heavy pedal-laden board. For all its limitations, I can say this: every pedal on it was painstakingly selected by me after years of experimentation - I love every sound.

Maybe I'm simply unrealistic in expecting any digital multieffect unit to compete with this.

[StompBoxBlues]

I've looked closely into the Nova. It looks interesting, might try one. (Might actually try one whether I keep the M13 or not and then sell the one I like less). But actually, my fallback plan is my prior big & heavy pedal-laden board. For all its limitations, I can say this: every pedal on it was painstakingly selected by me after years of experimentation - I love every sound.

Maybe I'm simply unrealistic in expecting any digital multieffect unit to compete with this.

Well...um..yeah. I think that would be unrealistic, and I never expected that out of the M13 (or any other modelled ME). The key words "years" and "painstakingly"...I bet even there is a visceral thing about it...I know I have a real fondness for my best pedals, that they are the result of so much trial and error, that I can see how they are set in an instant and know how they will sound when I turn them on, that I can tweak them at a distance with my toe if I have to...

I never intended that to compete with the M13 (even though like you say, it is the absolute BEST user interface, ease-of-use ME I have ever tried).
But I think it is something I can definitely work with. With added pedals (definitely wah) or even not...

I just love having the option of all those sounds, will have to try to learn some of the more musical filter effects, but generally all those effects in one place that is easy to dial, I can grab the M13 and a wah, guitar and amp and head out the door, play with folks without missing anything too much. I can get rid of some of my weirder "almost never use" effects because the M13 has that covered too.

I think they both have their place. Wouldn't think of getting rid of my pedalboard, or many of my fav pedals. But it is nice to have the option.

Right now, a musician friend of mine asked if I would help with a song in the studio, (I'm not trying to sound like a big shot, his wife bought him some studio time as a present, he just invited me in to see if I could add to this one song) and it is outside my usual musical sphere...but I like the song. I see that I might want quite different sounds than I usually go for, and really was at a loss to what I should bring with to the studio, but now I know the M13 (and maybe a few pedals) will take up that little space, sound great, and save me carting in 10-20 pedals, hooking them all up, etc.

It's perfect for that I think.

[Jon Silberman]

I think you're right. Maybe I'll just keep it and, instead of using it with my band as I originally foresaw doing, I'll use my pedalboard with the band and keep the M13 at home.

It's also true that the next firmware version is specifically targeted, in large part, at the overdrive voicings. The other guitarist in my band (our very own Finnster!) told me just the other night, "I think you should wait to see what the new firmware does before moving on."

The dynamics issue really is troublesome though. This is not, to me at least, a small niggle with the unit's "tone." I posted earlier on how, for example, just switching the same guitar from a single coil to a humbucking PUP has so much less of an impact when playing through any of the distortion models than through my analog Tube Screamer-based units (e.g., Reverend Drivetrain II; Fulldrive 2). I rely, in my playing, on the ability to change my volume and tone by switching PUPs midstream. I'm unwilling to surrender that to overall convenience.

[NickZ]

Jon,
I am in a similar position as you and considered selling my m13 due to the high noise floor when using the 4 cable method and the fact that I don't really like the drives pedals in the unit.

I have a Wampler ecstasy drive in the loop - and now have the m13 in my amp's loop and two drive pedals going into the front of my amp (ecs. drive and ac booster) and like using it this way.
I am pretty disappointed in the noise level when using the 4 cable method - and do have the board for sale ( I wish we had stores here in canada who had a 30 day return policy). if I sell it I will likely buy a timefactor for my loop and run the drives up front as I have been doing.

[mtmartin71]

Jon,
I am in a similar position as you and considered selling my m13 due to the high noise floor when using the 4 cable method and the fact that I don't really like the drives pedals in the unit.

I have a Wampler ecstasy drive in the loop - and now have the m13 in my amp's loop and two drive pedals going into the front of my amp (ecs. drive and ac booster) and like using it this way.
I am pretty disappointed in the noise level when using the 4 cable method - and do have the board for sale ( I wish we had stores here in canada who had a 30 day return policy). if I sell it I will likely buy a timefactor for my loop and run the drives up front as I have been doing.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "noise floor"? Are you saying it introduces too much noise when idle (and have you tried the noise gate) or are you saying it introduces too much signal? I've been trying the 4CM. The only reason I'm using the drives though is to balance my Strat's output to my other guitars via the M13 drives. Otherwise, I'm just using my Budda's drive sound.

[Jon Silberman]

Jon,
I am in a similar position as you and considered selling my m13 due to ... I don't really like the drives pedals in the unit.
The unit is worth the price of admission, I'd hazard, probably on the strength of the delays, modulations, reverbs, and looper alone. But what would be a killer for me would be if one or more of those in tandem with an analog box placed in front of the M13 also results in significant compression (i.e., with no dedicated M13 distortion, overdrive, or compression model also engaged).

You know, when I listen to the recordings that pass for "state of the art" on the radio today, I can understand, almost, why someone might decide it's a good idea to build automatic, unavoidable compression into a multieffects unit. I guess I'm just an old school type o' guy: no compression unless you actively add it.

[tbhuey]

I got my M13 fully intending to use a drive pedal or two with it. It keeps more banks open for the other effects that I got it for. I have not noticed using the M13 with a drive pedal to have any negative effects on my tone (dynamics etc.). If anything, I think my setup sounds better without all of the other pedals/cables I used to run on my board. I've been going into my drives then to the front of my amp (Badger 30), and I have the M13 in my amps loop. I've also run the standard 4 cable method with success too.

[Jon Silberman]

I have not noticed using the M13 with a drive pedal to have any negative effects on my tone (dynamics etc.).
Very glad to hear this.

[nstokes]

Jon -

I too am using a Tube Screamer and Keeley Modded Blues Driver in front of my M13 and have had no issues (to my ears) in regards to my tone being affected. I got the M13 primarily for everything BUT the drives, and have been more than satisfied with it. However, for those rare occasions when I need a Fuzz, or a nice Tube Comp, I'm happy to have those as an "added bonus".

[NickZ]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "noise floor"? Are you saying it introduces too much noise when idle (and have you tried the noise gate) or are you saying it introduces too much signal? I've been trying the 4CM. The only reason I'm using the drives though is to balance my Strat's output to my other guitars via the M13 drives. Otherwise, I'm just using my Budda's drive sound.

Sure - the minute I hook it up via the 4 cm there is noise coming from the amp - even without any effects being turned on. Not a ground loop as it is plugged into a separate electrical line.

[Jon Silberman]

Not a ground loop as it is plugged into a separate electrical line.
I'm not sure you can rule this out just from using a different outlet. Doesn't it matter how the outlets are actually wired together within the house?

[stilwel]

On the contrary....plugging into separate electrical jacks is precisely what can cause a ground loop.

[StompBoxBlues]

On the contrary....plugging into separate electrical jacks is precisely what can cause a ground loop.

Yup! Further away the more chance also even if they are wired "right".
Try plugging into the same one, my M13 has no noise when bypassed, and not much (except in certain models) otherwise...

"ground is ground the whole world round" But not all ground are really at ground...meaning they OUGHT to be the same, but in reality many times are not. stilwel has the answer I think.

[NickZ]

I was originally plugging eveything into the same strip and was told to try the opposite. Either way - same result.
4CM is way too noisy - again this is with all effects turned off. In the loop there is less noise -but still more than what I would deem acceptable. Into the front of the amp it is silent - but it isn't the way I want to run things.

[dognmoon]

I was originally plugging eveything into the same strip and was told to try the opposite. Either way - same result.
4CM is way too noisy - again this is with all effects turned off. In the loop there is less noise -but still more than what I would deem acceptable. Into the front of the amp it is silent - but it isn't the way I want to run things.

take note of where the wall wart is in relation to your cables. I know with the Rebel, there was some trouble with the amp picking up some of the noise from the power supply.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Got mine today..it surprised me by way exceeding my expectations!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8kLLI4sKmE

[Jon Silberman]

Always enjoy hearing and seeing you play, Ed. Oh, and thanks for taking my call. :p :D

[Ed DeGenaro]

Always enjoy hearing and seeing you play, Ed. Oh, and thanks for taking my call. :p :D
FUNNY!

Here's one with buckers and a 4x12...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQuGSogpUW4&fmt=22

[mtmartin71]

FUNNY!

Here's one with buckers and a 4x12...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQuGSogpUW4&fmt=22

What are you playing through in those clips? Your AxeFX or something else? Are the drives all M13?

[Ed DeGenaro]

What are you playing through in those clips? Your AxeFX or something else? Are the drives all M13?

A UniValve set clean loaded down, into the VHT power amp. The clean stuff is uni any gain is m13.

[Ed DeGenaro]

uploaded one more with the 2x12...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di5FMq74RbI&fmt=22

[boon]

FUNNY!

Here's one with buckers and a 4x12...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQuGSogpUW4&fmt=22

:drool:drool

[thudle]

just picked this pedal up...it's amazing! so versatile and well thought out. anybody here getting rid of their tuners? i'm thinking of getting rid of my strobostomp now...

[gdomeier]

I have the same problem with most of my amps, but not with a hughes and kettner tube 50.

I have found that keeping all cables away from the m13 wall wart and power line help. Also, I can move the cables going into my amps loop around and eliminate the hum. Try grabbing them both in one hand and start moving them around. I have found a dead silent spot, but I can't make them hover six inches above and to the left of my amp :)

Eventually I am going to try some type of ground loop fixer.


I was originally plugging eveything into the same strip and was told to try the opposite. Either way - same result.
4CM is way too noisy - again this is with all effects turned off. In the loop there is less noise -but still more than what I would deem acceptable. Into the front of the amp it is silent - but it isn't the way I want to run things.

[screamtone]

I have the same problem with most of my amps, but not with a hughes and kettner tube 50.

I have found that keeping all cables away from the m13 wall wart and power line help. Also, I can move the cables going into my amps loop around and eliminate the hum. Try grabbing them both in one hand and start moving them around. I have found a dead silent spot, but I can't make them hover six inches above and to the left of my amp :)

Eventually I am going to try some type of ground loop fixer.

This is interesting. I've only played one job with the M13 attached to my pedalboard in a semi-permanent way. I've got the the wall wart mounted underneath my Pedaltrain Jr, and it's plugged in to the AC outlet on my PPII. I noticed a little more hum than usual at the gig, but just wrote it off as bad/old wiring in the club, but I don't recall the hum being bad there in the past. Hum used to not bother me too much, but lately it drives me crazy. I'm starting to think the wall wart had something to do with the hum. I'm going to set up my stage rig somewhere I know has clean/noise free power later today and see what kind of hum I get.

What are you Pedaltrain/PPII guys doing with the giant wall wart? Do you feel it has induced any hum into your rig?

[StompBoxBlues]

I was originally plugging eveything into the same strip and was told to try the opposite. Either way - same result.
4CM is way too noisy - again this is with all effects turned off. In the loop there is less noise -but still more than what I would deem acceptable. Into the front of the amp it is silent - but it isn't the way I want to run things.

If I get the chance tonight I will try using the four cable method, with my Classic 30 and see if mine is noisy. If it is, will try a few things and see if nearness of the power supply (sometimes "angle" of it is enough...turn the thing 90 degrees and hear the noise go away, or the guitar if it is single-coil), see if it is noisy with the guitar volume down, or unplugged...etc.

If I get the chance will report here...

[Jon Silberman]

Great news! I spent the last hour experimenting with running my Fulldrive 2 in front of the M13. Works like a charm. Seriously, it sounded fine followed by a test sample of other-than-distortion models and also good preceded or followed by selected distortion models. This, combined with my purchase yesterday in the Emporium of a second auto-wah (as the first is dedicated to my "real" pedalboard) should enable me to dedicate the M13 to what it does best - the models other than the overdrives and distortion - while lessening my dependence on its Tron-Up model (with which I continue my search for the ultimate in vowel-like filtering).

Thanks to everyone for your ideas, suggestions, and feedback on my distortion-based concerns. As corny as this may sound, I love this place, the denizens are generous and knowledgable.

[Jon Silberman]

Oh, and one other thing: the Echo Dry Thru models flat out slay their non-Dry Thru counterparts if preserving your original up-front tone is your goal. Line 6 nailed it with those enhanced models. Knowing this makes me look doubly forward to 1.05's release and what it may contain.

[StompBoxBlues]

Oh, and one other thing: the Echo Dry Thru models flat out slay their non-Dry Thru counterparts if preserving your original up-front tone is your goal. Line 6 nailed it with those enhanced models. Knowing this makes me look doubly forward to 1.05's release and what it may contain.

I noticed that too!

I don't know why, I mean it is no real concern of mine, but I feel glad that you decided to keep the M13 at least for now, mainly because I got the sense you really did like it otherwise.

Like I said, I'm keeping mine...

[Ed DeGenaro]

Great news! I spent the last hour experimenting with running my Fulldrive 2 in front of the M13. Works like a charm. Seriously, it sounded fine followed by a test sample of other-than-distortion models and also good preceded or followed by selected distortion models. This, combined with my purchase yesterday in the Emporium of a second auto-wah (as the first is dedicated to my "real" pedalboard) should enable me to dedicate the M13 to what it does best - the models other than the overdrives and distortion - while lessening my dependence on its Tron-Up model (with which I continue my search for the ultimate in vowel-like filtering).

Thanks to everyone for your ideas, suggestions, and feedback on my distortion-based concerns. As corny as this may sound, I love this place, the denizens are generous and knowledgable.
I actually really dig the drive models.

[Jon Silberman]

I can see that you do, Ed! In the process, though, I can also hear that you appear to use far more gain/distortion most of the time than I do just about ever. That may be the difference influencing our relative reactions. Everything is subjective, it's my subjective feeling that, still today, digital does a much better job with heavy distortion than it does with mild overdrive, the latter is where analog shines.

[Jon Silberman]

I don't know why, I mean it is no real concern of mine, but I feel glad that you decided to keep the M13 at least for now, mainly because I got the sense you really did like it otherwise.
It's because you want me to be happy! :BEER

[Ed DeGenaro]

I can see that you do, Ed! In the process, though, I can also hear that you appear to use far more gain/distortion most of the time than I do just about ever. That may be the difference influencing our relative reactions. Everything is subjective, it's my subjective feeling that, still today, digital does a much better job with heavy distortion than it does with mild overdrive, the latter is where analog shines.
No problem with differing opinion. FWIW, I do think a square wave is a square wave.

[Jon Silberman]

If all of the square waves making up the signal are equal in all relevant parameters, yes.

By the way, Ed, I'd love to know more at some point, if you're so inclined, on how you're configuring your M13's distortion/overdrive models and settings.

[ManleyF]

take note of where the wall wart is in relation to your cables. I know with the Rebel, there was some trouble with the amp picking up some of the noise from the power supply.

Yeah- I had the same issue originally, and thought it was the M13...
BUT- I had the same noise with my Yamaha Magic Stomp as well as the DL4 in the loop, but no problem out front...

So, one thing I did is I drug it all into a store- and guess what? No real noise difference in the loop vs. in front of the amp.

In conclusion, I discovered that my cables were running close to my APC power / line conditioner and adding the noise, plus my home ac lines are much noisier than what I experienced at my local store. In addition to that, the effects loop of the amp can add noise to nearly anything depending on how you run the send and return gain.

Bottom line- don't give up on the M13, as I bet money it's not the M13, especially since you said the noise is only in the loop.

Have you tried the M13 2 cable method but in the loop of the amp? That could rule out the 4cbl vs. the 2cbl being the issue and narrow it down to front of amp vs. loop. Also, try another pedal in front and in the loop if you haven't already...

hope that helps ya...

[ManleyF]

...
What are you Pedaltrain/PPII guys doing with the giant wall wart? Do you feel it has induced any hum into your rig?

I have the PedalTrain PRO and PPII, and have a power strip zip tied on the under neath left hand side, and have the M13 wall wart zip tied up in there too... but since I moved stuff away, actually quit using the APC line conditioner completely (funny since it is supposed to remove ac line noise), the noise is much better, and pretty much a non-issue....

sorry I don't have a photo to show at the moment, I'm at work.... but TGP'n ;-)

BTW- I'm from Louisville / Bardstown area... anyway... love my M13 ....

[StompBoxBlues]

It's because you want me to be happy! :BEER

Actually...jep, that's it!

[Ed DeGenaro]

If all of the square waves making up the signal are equal in all relevant parameters, yes.

By the way, Ed, I'd love to know more at some point, if you're so inclined, on how you're configuring your M13's distortion/overdrive models and settings.
Pretty much the same as my real pedals...drive to taste, volume so it'll be the same as the clean amp with the pedal on. In other words I'm not pushing the front of the amp but literally just squarewaving the signal, tone usually below 9 o'clock. treble below 11 o'clock, bass uop at about 1 o'clock (depends on amp though). If it's a bright amp mids below noon, if it isn't above noon.
The 2 I really dig are he Tube driver and Tube Screamer models.

[Jon Silberman]

The 2 I really dig are he Tube driver and Tube Screamer models.
Those are exactly the ones I dig most, too! Each is set up now on my M13.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Those are exactly the ones I dig most, too! Each is set up now on my M13.
I'm gonna slap the M13 in front of my set-up for this weekends gigs...really interested to see how it does.

[StompBoxBlues]

Pretty much the same as my real pedals...drive to taste, volume so it'll be the same as the clean amp with the pedal on. In other words I'm not pushing the front of the amp but literally just squarewaving the signal, tone usually below 9 o'clock. treble below 11 o'clock, bass uop at about 1 o'clock (depends on amp though). If it's a bright amp mids below noon, if it isn't above noon.
The 2 I really dig are he Tube driver and Tube Screamer models.

I think, and this is just the M13, not so much "real" OD's, "drive to tast" is the most critical parameter isn't it?

Like Jon found out a number of posts back, on most of the OD models, "drive" seems to be too touchy. I don't personally care where it ends up (I mean, I don't think it ought to be in the middle at virtual 12:00 or anything) but it seems like a waste of a parameter when you only really can get "natural" OD sound (where you might have the gain set from 0 to fully on which seems to match...) from 0 to a good deal under halfway...

So, main question, where is your "to taste" ending up usually?

Maybe I haven't tried enough of the drives, but it seemed to me I tried a bunch (4 or 5) and they all were WAY too over the top anywhere past halfway up...and further up just made them more harsh and nasty sounding (which MIGHT be great in a band setting!)

The problem, I played in a band for years up til now but we just disbanded, and I have no current band to play with. I know from experienc that it is hard to tell alone in a room what sounds great in a band setting, and I have read several reviews of the M13 where the reviewer mentions not being crazy about the OD, but hearing it with a band or recording of a gig and being blown away....this fits with my general experience (that harsh sounds alone at home work out to be much smoother and cut through wonderfully in a mix)...

[StompBoxBlues]

Those are exactly the ones I dig most, too! Each is set up now on my M13.

To me the Tubescreamer model doesn't sound much like a tubescreamer, but it DOES sound much better, and has great dynamics...it's one of my favorites too...but also goes a little ways to what I was trying to suggest about the M13...which is mainly,

Screw trying to "model the most popular pedals through the years", why not make NEW pedals, that just plain sound great.

I don't know about the "market" but personally I am not after one particular sound from a particular pedal (and honestly...of the pedals I own and the M13 tries to model, I think they fall short of being "like the pedal" by a good margin, especially in how the pedals react to settings, and with each other so...) I just want great sounds. Even though a lot of the models ( that I know and own or have) don't mimic the originals all that well, in their own right they have some great sounds.

I think they made a mistake by marketing it as replacements for those pedals, I would love to just have it be " a whole new pallete of never before hear pedals" where they spent time not trying to emulate, but just plain make their own pedals....because the "it's just like a pedalboard" concept is perfect, but no modelling is going to compete with a pedalboard with a great wah, sunface, klon, zendrive, Megavibe (or mojovibe), H2O, etc...the selling point should rather be that it is a unique collection of proprietary pedal sounds that you CAN'T get with real stompboxes but that can be configured and act like real ones.

Then they would have had the leeway to create the BEST possible sounds from the chipset they used, the algorithms, and maybe made something that doesn't exist but that should...and does in the M13!

Plus...they ought to have considered going hybrid, with some kind of real fuzz pedal, and OD (they could have paid Paul C for being allowed to include a real Tim or Timmy, or Alf for a real Zendrive, or Bill for a real Klon, inside their pedal...wouldn't THAT be something????

Think outside the box!

[NickZ]

The screamer is a good one imo - although he mid bump can be a little much at times. I also like running the tube comp or boost comp in front of the screamer and lowering the gain on the screamer -for a little more of a saturated tone.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Well, to tast for me and that applis to the m13, the models in the *xefx and the 20 od boxes I use seems to end up in the neighborhood of 1 to 3 o'clock with the level usually between 9 and noon. As for the mid hump, heck that's what a ts sounds like.

[NickZ]

As for the mid hump, heck that's what a ts sounds like.
No argument there - my point was just that it was really the only drive I liked and was hoping for one that was more transparent with similar smooth qualities.

[Jon Silberman]

I've decided I hate the windows in my house ... they're too transparent!

:o

Seriously, everyone has to be true to himself on the overdrive issue. Accepting that, no, the M13, as least for now, will not be a "one pedal experience" for me as I'd originally hoped, I'll always need to bring an analog overdrive and auto-wah along with me.

[NickZ]

Are you running it in the loop of the m13 Jon - if so how do you like it?

[dognmoon]

When I compared the M13 to Egnater MOD50 back in September, I found the results to be the same as yours. I mean, the MOD50 still had more "space"... more dimension? I dunno, it just had a little sumpin' sumpin' that the M13 Tube Drive model lacked. BUT, that difference became imperceptible once I played with a band. It didn't even feel different which is the niggle of most guitarists when talking about digital tones.

Speaking of drive models, I think I'm gonna post a little rant on modeled drives, specifically in the M13, later today in a new thread. I used a bunch of drives on a sideman gig last night and I have plenty to get off my chest. :)


That rant is here... (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5661285#post5661285)

(http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5661285#post5661285)

[LunarSF]

I hate to post this but perhaps the collective advice here can help keep me in the fold. I've come to a firm conclusion: for my basic overdrive tones, I can't live with the M13's apparent compression of every one of the models. It's killing my dynamics and making the whole experience less enjoyable and my playing less inspired.



I bought this board not expecting to use the ODs at all, so I was pleasantly surprised by the tube screamer and tube drive.

When I asked rich about the "sameness" of the output -see my older posts here, he replied "use more pedals!" Which is always an option, and one I had always assumed I would need.

Unfortunately it sounds like you need a real mutron too so unless you need the other functionality (delays and mods etc) so you probably have to compare your options based on how much stuff you can carry.

This board has some built in compromise, but until the roadies are willing to carry my old modular pedalboard loaded with the original stuff, I'll deal.

[Jon Silberman]

I actually don't need a real MuTron at all. I'm perfectly happy with my Boss TW-1 on my real board. I'd buy another but thought, what the heck, Jon, live a little, experiment! That's why I now have the successor pedal, the AW-2, on the way.

[Doyle]

Hey everyone,

I have read this post about the M13 for the last few weeks and decided to buy one based on the input of this thread.

I got it on Friday afternoon and decided to tweak some sounds for band practice on Saturday. I usually never bring a new stomp box, amp or guitar to a practice or gig until I have had it for awhile. Anyway I looked at our set list and decided to try and go after some of the sounds I need.

Plugged the M13 into my 5150 head/Marshall 4x12 cab running the M13 through the effects loop on the head, using the two cable method. First off I went after the two Pink Floyd songs on the list, (being that Gilmour is an effects junky in my opinion) Young Lust and Coming back to life.

I spent a few minutes to dial up Young Lust. I normally use a Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-5 all the way through and a EVH Phase 90 for the solo in the song. I matched up the M13's Analog Chorus and Phaser as close as I could. I A B'ed the two stomp boxes and then the M13 and couldn't tell the difference. Being that I had the unit for all of less than an hour, I was pretty shocked.

Next up was the Pink Floyd song Coming back to life. I brought up a digital delay, analog chorus, and the boost comp. The delay worked great for the clean intro solo and the other two distorted solos in the song. My maple neck strat with EMG David Gilmour pick up kit loved it. I used the boost comp to squash the sound a bit for the clean rhythm sounds on the song. So nice and smooth! Perfect! Only a few minutes spent and the sounds required for the song are right there. I felt this was a major accomplishment being that Gilmour relies on effects so much.

The next song on my bands set list that has signature type stomp box sounds is Rush's 2112. I brought up a Phaser, Tube Echo, Boost Comp. Whee no problem. All fun and feeling confident that I can use just the M13 and my wah pedal at tomorrows practice.

I spent another hour tweaking in some all purpose sounds that I can use in the majority of the bands set list. Tremolo, flanger, phaser, delays and verbs.

After I was satisfied with all my tweaking I plugged my stomp boxes into the effects loop on my 5150 head. I double checked my stomp boxes against the M13 I was pleased. I think its great for me.

Your experience my differ than mine as expected but damn I'm very happy. We play a wide variety of music, from Deep Purple to Alanis Morissette. I took the M13 and just my wah to practice tonight and I felt very good about it. The Drummer and the Bass player were commenting on all sorts of sounds that they liked.

I have not spent much time with the overdrives yet, simply because my 5150 head has all I'll ever need and I love it. However Im sure I will get into more of the OD's once I plug it into my Fender Hot Rod Deville. The Drive on the Deville is terribad, but I do love the clean tone of that amp. Im sure I'll still drag both amps to gigs.

Anyway long story short. I like the M13 quite a lot it sounds great with my strats and les pauls. I know I'm in my "honeymoon" stage with it, but geeze when I can wipe out my pedal board except for the wah in two days I'd be hard pressed to think otherwise.

Thanks guys for the thread, very informative. I was in the market to buy a DL4 and ended up with so much more. I guess I'll ebay my MXR M-134 Stereo Chorus Pedal, Boss CE-5 Chorus, MXR EVH PHASE 90, MXR M-102 Dyna Comp Pedal, Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Electric Mistress Flanger, Danelectro Dan-Echo, Boss Delay DM-2.

Rock on \m/

[Jon Silberman]

I love your post, Doyle, it's a great combination of upbeat, informative, and inspiring. I'm going to return, in a few minutes, and try some of the very combinations you've described.

[Roodboy]

Any suggestions on a wah or whammy tone?
I'm usng the ex-1 and Q-filter model, BandPass, and not getting a convincing wah. I tried the preset under expression scene too.

[Jon Silberman]

An astounding thing happened to me this morning. I checked my email and the weekly view ## from Picturetrail were there. I couldn't believe it - there were over 4,700 views of the shot of my labeled M13 that I posted only a week ago! This tells me that it's not delusions of grandeur that folks are interested in what others are placing on their scratch pads and how they're configuring the models, rather, there's a hunger for this type of sharing.

In that spirit, as I'm continuing to work with my M13 to better match the main scene with the majority of my band's repertoire, here's the lastest.

Now, this took me almost a half hour to photograph, upload, and post here so the least you can do in return, after you look at the pics, is share your reactions! Thanks. :)

Main setup: added FD 2 before the M13 (essential for my needs - this has fixed 90% of my issues with the device):

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594569.jpg

Closer-up shot showing labels, as follows (top row, middle row, bottom row:

Top: slapback delay; Tri-Chorus; Tron Up (labeled as Auto-Wah), Blue Comp Treble
Middle: Tube Driver; Phaser; 400ms delay; Boost Comp (labeled as Comp-Slide w/Octo Reverb "in reserve")
Bottom: Jumbo Fuzz; Dimension; 650 ms delay; Tube Comp (labeled as Comp-Clean Boost)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594596.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

Model settings: top row (your input especially sought on the Tron Up settings)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594618.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594641.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594692.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594733.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

Middle row:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594747.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594772.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594796.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594813.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

Bottom row:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594832.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594840.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594845.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594856.jpg

Now I'll stop f-ing with the controls and practice our songs. :o ;)

[finnster]

Great post Silberman! I am making a "scene" after you now :)

One question? are you running 4>3>2>1 or 1>2>3>4 in your scene setup on this one?

Thanks

[Jon Silberman]

I'm running stock - left to right. And stop "making a scene!" :o

:D

P.S. Thanks for the tip on the Dimension model. I'm finding it's perfect for when you want light/airy chorus.

[troykennedy]

This is really great Jon. Thanks for posting!!

[nstokes]

@jon thx for sharing!

[StompBoxBlues]

Last night I spent an hour or so making a new scene called "Basic BLUES", and carefully tweaked and adjusted so it was solid and good for what I wanted it for. (I overwrote "Swamp" something or other...scene 1 factory default).

Renamed it fine, etc. and went out of it, later back in and it was back to "swamp". I checked settings and it suddenly (and I never was in that module when tweaking for other parameters like EXP pedal) was set to Manual Save. I reset it to what it has been all along (auto save) tried again to rename and set a few different default pedals (didn'th have the energy to go through everything again) and it worked as normal.

I thought the "save" function, manual or auto, was a "global" setting, whereas I know the EXP are scene dependant (which is a good thing) but now am wondering if save (and what else?) are scene dependant and on the factory default were set to manual save?

Anyone know?

[Jon Silberman]

Last night I spent an hour or so making a new scene called "Basic BLUES"
I don't know the answer to your question but please, when you're done, OPEN SOURCE "THE CODE!" :hiP

[The P-Man]

Really cool thread and one that has inspired me to pick up an M13 as soon as I can offload some of my lesser used pedals.

What’s interesting to me is reading that a lot of people are making the M13 work for them through experimentation even if it doesn’t work in quite the way they’d expected or hoped before purchasing it.

This rings true with my experience of the DL4 which is now a staple of my board. It took me quite a long time with the DL-4 to leave my preconceptions of how it should sound and just accept how it actually did sound.

Once I’d left my expectations of all the presets accurately representing what they modelled and just accepted it as a cool sounding and versatile delay in its own right I got a lot more out of it.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to getting the M13 and just having some fun experimenting with it. The delays of the DL4, a looper that you can use with the effects and the verbzilla reverbs make this worth the admission price alone.

I look forward to reporting back my findings!!

[Jon Silberman]

... Here's my current simple board (an original PedalTrain) with a wee Germanium Fuzz Face clone (thanks whoismarykelly) feeding the M13, the Skreddy Screw Driver Deluxe is in the M13's loop. ...

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/writethis/M13Board.jpg (http://%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj199/writethis/M13Board.jpg%5B/IMG%5D)
A thank you and an epiphany/confession.

Thank you very much, michael dukes, for emailing me your Boost Comp into Tron Up settings. I really, really dig the way the Tron is sounding now.

Epiphany/confession: I'm opening myself up to the distinct possibility that, "It's not Line 6, it's me." I had thought the Tron model to be junk but the truth was it due to my ignorance on how to use it. I need to gain more experience and benefit from additional future suggestions from knowledgable tweakers like michael) on how to coax the best out of the unit, before I make any more such judgments.

From this perspective, I'm going to revisit all of my assumptions/conclusions to date about all of the models, including the distortions and overdrives. (Though I do have to say still, the best thing about my Fulldrive 2 is the ability to pull up on the Comp Cut knob - it's what really let's the pedal shine. If there were only a similar capability on all of the M13 drives I think I'd be in modeling heaven!)

[michael dukes]

Jon, you're so welcome. Glad you're liking the Tron, I think the filters in general on this thing are really nice. The tracking on the synths is insanely good IMHO, I'd never used the four-button Line 6 filter modeler before but if it's anywhere near as good as the M13, I've clearly been missing out.

[Jon Silberman]

And BTW, please tell Melissa Mathes I think she has an incredibly sexy voice. ;)

P.S. Who's using the Global Noise Gate and how are you setting your Threshold and Decay?

[StompBoxBlues]

A thank you and an epiphany/confession.

Thank you very much, michael dukes, for emailing me your Boost Comp into Tron Up settings. I really, really dig the way the Tron is sounding now.




From another user that can't quite get the Tron happening, could you share the settings with us all? (I'm sure there are more!)

Is there a M13 forum? Or any central place where they have example patches? I never understood why a company goes to all the work and trouble to make wonderful models, and then either doesn't program the most "musical" default setting or include suggested settings for some sounds? OR even sell a book with a whole bunch of them!

[Doyle]

Hi,

Thanks Jon for the kind words on my post.

I'm having a lot of fun trying to get everything just right. I have kind of come to a roadblock and am looking for input/ suggestions for a decent flange setting for the Heart song Barracuda. I think what I have is passable but I'd like to have other ideas.

I played with both the Jet Flanger and Analog Flange. I ended up leaning towards the Analog Flange. I'm just not entirely satisfied with what I came up with. I think I need a set of outside ears to help me out. So with that said. If any of you have time to mess around. It would be appreciated.

By the way I think I need a new camera. Taking pics of the led was not easy.:)

Thanks. Doyle

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1483/12175619/21652224/356814236.jpg
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1483/12175619/21652224/356814236.jpg)

[Jon Silberman]

Just "pre-coffee/offhand" with no actual testing on the unit but have you done any experimentation with either a double flange setup, a phaser instead, or a mild chorus before or after the flange?

EDIT TO ADD MY OWN QUESTION!

Am I correct that it is not possible, with the M13, to have banks 1 and 4 go into the amp's input, and 2 and 3 go to the effects loop?

[Doyle]

Just "pre-coffee/offhand" with no actual testing on the unit but have you done any experimentation with either a double flange setup, a phaser instead, or a mild chorus before or after the flange?

EDIT TO ADD MY OWN QUESTION!

Am I correct that it is not possible, with the M13, to have banks 1 and 4 go into the amp's input, and 2 and 3 go to the effects loop?
Hey, Thanks for the suggestions. I had success with a phaser, but I'm stubborn and went back to the flanger.

It dawned on me that in the process of this I got so wrapped up that I shut off everything but just the flanger. I had just the flanger on when I was trying to find what I was looking for. It seemed weak. Today I turned on some drive and it gave it the edge I was looking for. Nice throaty flange, yet transparent enough to not just be a wall of sweeping flange. I hate when all you hear is a flanger and not the guitar.

I don't know if you can do that or not. I have not read the manual that came with it or the advanced user guide yet. I was going to read it today and starting messing around with the distortions instead haha.

[michael dukes]

Am I correct that it is not possible, with the M13, to have banks 1 and 4 go into the amp's input, and 2 and 3 go to the effects loop?

Correct. As I understand it, you have one insert point (meaning a send and a return) which can be inserted between any two effects, or in front, or at the end of the chain. But the effect order can only be 1-2-3-4 or 4-3-2-1. Additionally, you can select a different insert point for each of the twelve scenes. I learned this last point the hard way, as I assumed it was a global setting. Lots of routing flexibility, but not the specific thing you were hoping to do.

[richrenken]

just picked this pedal up...it's amazing! so versatile and well thought out. anybody here getting rid of their tuners? i'm thinking of getting rid of my strobostomp now...

The tuner is great in M13 but there are a couple applications where you want a tuner outboard. When you engage the tuner, you don't get delay trails. So for a quick tune between songs it can get sticky. Also, if you have a loop going and then go into tuner it dumps the loop. If neither of these is a problem, jettison.

[richrenken]

An astounding thing happened to me this morning. I checked my email and the weekly view ## from Picturetrail were there. I couldn't believe it - there were over 4,700 views of the shot of my labeled M13 that I posted only a week ago! This tells me that it's not delusions of grandeur that folks are interested in what others are placing on their scratch pads and how they're configuring the models, rather, there's a hunger for this type of sharing.

In that spirit, as I'm continuing to work with my M13 to better match the main scene with the majority of my band's repertoire, here's the lastest.

Now, this took me almost a half hour to photograph, upload, and post here so the least you can do in return, after you look at the pics, is share your reactions! Thanks. :)

Main setup: added FD 2 before the M13 (essential for my needs - this has fixed 90% of my issues with the device):

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594569.jpg

Closer-up shot showing labels, as follows (top row, middle row, bottom row:

Top: slapback delay; Tri-Chorus; Tron Up (labeled as Auto-Wah), Blue Comp Treble
Middle: Tube Driver; Phaser; 400ms delay; Boost Comp (labeled as Comp-Slide w/Octo Reverb "in reserve")
Bottom: Jumbo Fuzz; Dimension; 650 ms delay; Tube Comp (labeled as Comp-Clean Boost)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594596.jpg

Love the tape. Seriously love the "lived in" feel of your M13. Thank you so much for hanging in there and thank you to all you guys for helping each other get the most out of this box.

[richrenken]

P.S. Who's using the Global Noise Gate and how are you setting your Threshold and Decay?

The Noise Gate is saved per scene. It is not Global. It may have been Global in 1.02, not sure about that, but in 1.04 it is definitely saved per scene.

[StompBoxBlues]

The Noise Gate is saved per scene. It is not Global. It may have been Global in 1.02, not sure about that, but in 1.04 it is definitely saved per scene.

I haven't checked but from an earlier post from me...it seems like maybe the "autosave/manual save" setting is also not global (that would be SMART too, since I may want to have a few solid unchanging scenes, and others that would let me tweak and autosave) but per scene?


Anyone else mention having a hard time setting time parameters to 1/4, 1/8, etc. not values to use with tap? I was curious why it goes from 1/4 note, to like triplet or 64th note instead of gradiated?

Also wondered, one way I found to get around setting a paramater to EXP pedal when tweaking is just unplugging the EXP pedal while adjusting. Is there a different way? (I also do this to remove control of a paramter I had previously given to the EXP pedal) otherwise I think the unit believes you want the EXP assigned to the pedal to control even if just moving it withou calibrating.

(still would love "fader match") :horse

[dognmoon]

Anyone else mention having a hard time setting time parameters to 1/4, 1/8, etc. not values to use with tap? I was curious why it goes from 1/4 note, to like triplet or 64th note instead of gradiated?


The tap tempo took a little getting used to. Now I'm a straight up champ at it. I think once you get a feel for the response and travel of that button, you'll get better at it. I see it like changing cars and having to learn the feel of the clutch on the new one vs. your old one so you can change gears without looking like you're in Driver's Ed. Class. :) Each one feels a little different and I think tap tempos are kinda the same way.

As for the note subdivision jump, I think it does gradually go into smaller note values, but you might be getting that knob jump that happens when you first turn it. Once you get past the jump, it changes gradually from whole note to half note to quarter note, etc.

[StompBoxBlues]

The tap tempo took a little getting used to. Now I'm a straight up champ at it. I think once you get a feel for the response and travel of that button, you'll get better at it. I see it like changing cars and having to learn the feel of the clutch on the new one vs. your old one so you can change gears without looking like you're in Driver's Ed. Class. :) Each one feels a little different and I think tap tempos are kinda the same way.

As for the note subdivision jump, I think it does gradually go into smaller note values, but you might be getting that knob jump that happens when you first turn it. Once you get past the jump, it changes gradually from whole note to half note to quarter note, etc.

Thanks, I'll try that again. What I experience is...

ms display....
ms display....
ms display....
ms display....
1/4 note...and I move what I think is minutely back and EITHER get back to ms display, or what I think is a 64th, but if I get the 64th and keep turning in the same direction, it graduates down from there, through like 16th note, 16th triplet, etc half note...and then back to ms display.

I'll try and adjust smaller (I recall reading some trick in the manual, holding down one thing while turning that made it more minimal adjust..

[dognmoon]

Thanks, I'll try that again. What I experience is...

ms display....
ms display....
ms display....
ms display....
1/4 note...and I move what I think is minutely back and EITHER get back to ms display, or what I think is a 64th, but if I get the 64th and keep turning in the same direction, it graduates down from there, through like 16th note, 16th triplet, etc half note...and then back to ms display.

I'll try and adjust smaller (I recall reading some trick in the manual, holding down one thing while turning that made it more minimal adjust..

If I recall, you hold down the tap tempo button while turning that adjustment knob and should give you the fine tune option.

[tomnottom]

Just saw this on youtube and thought Rich is helpful here and here is a cool vid with Rich at the LA Amp Show. Not sure if this has been posted yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95WaCa_55Q8

[Jon Silberman]

Excellent video!

[Jon Silberman]

The Noise Gate is saved per scene. It is not Global. It may have been Global in 1.02, not sure about that, but in 1.04 it is definitely saved per scene.
This is actually a great feature because it allows us to vary the strength of our noise gates per scene so that, for example, I can set up a scene with heavy distortion models with a stronger gating effect than my cleaner scenes.

[Jeremy_Shirland]

richrenken,

Is there any chance we can get ***assignable*** MIDI program change into the M13. I would LOVE to have assignable program change, with scene changes and latching - so I could switch the channels of my MIDI preamp with the M13 (AND vice versa). That could seal the deal for me.

[devster]

Quick Q. Is there any way of knowing which preset is on which A/B/C button before you engage it ??? Or do you just have to remember. I realise they have dim lights telling you the type of effect, but I'd hate to forget which button was which then hit the T Screamer for the solo rather than the Big Distortion (or the reverse delay rather than the analogue).

Also any more feedback on the drives volume going from practice to gig levels. My XT Live was all over the place volume wise making it a nightmare for gigs.

thx

[StompBoxBlues]

Quick Q. Is there any way of knowing which preset is on which A/B/C button before you engage it ??? Or do you just have to remember. I realise they have dim lights telling you the type of effect, but I'd hate to forget which button was which then hit the T Screamer for the solo rather than the Big Distortion (or the reverse delay rather than the analogue).

Also any more feedback on the drives volume going from practice to gig levels. My XT Live was all over the place volume wise making it a nightmare for gigs.

thx

Pretty sure there isn't... but you could make up your own system, Jon labelled his, I prefer making the bottom row my "startpoint" for all, and (if applicable) setting the B row as "more" (meaning if bottom row is TS, B row would be either same but with more gain, or a Dist or whatever) making the A row "less" (clean comp or milder OD). This idea can work for delay, filters, reverb anything as long as you know what you yourself mean by "more" and "less" (i.e. in a delay to me it would mean mix and delay times).

On the drive volumes, I think there is just no good way to "normalize" them to a nominal value... I do the best I can to get them similar (or if I want slight boost, etc.) but you know at a gig, it isn't always pure "volume" but instead is "cut"...

You can have an OD setting at home that sounds LOUD, but in a mix just sounds like you unplugged your guitar (get totally lost in the mix), where another might not sound so heavy, but in the mix is louder!

I had an old RP-7 (still have) that had one knob for overall volume which can be a good idea, but whenever Dirt is involved I'm thinking, get them where you think they are close, check in band rehearsal if they are and tweak so they get closer to what you want, and use a EXP pedal controlling "output" on all OD's...

[Jon Silberman]

Another option is to somehow obtain a folded paper or light molded plastic sheet to place on top of the M13, with holes for the switches, suitable for marking with magic markers. If it's the molded plastic and you use erasable markers, they can be infinitely reusable.

Then you can do what I did with my tape, for each scene, on its own sheet.

I'm considering further research as to feasibility, sources, and cost.

[FUSER]

Ok, I got mine today and still working on it.
One question, Why is the tuner/tap button always blinking even with the unit completely bypassed?
How do I turn it off?

Thanks

[TheFlash]

I found that I really like stacking the Tron Up model into the Facial Fuzz model. Play around with this combo...you guys might really like it.

(This was dialed for a strat into a fender PRRI and it's set up right to left so tron first then fuzz.)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/TheFlash26/DSC_0287.jpg

[dognmoon]

Ok, I got mine today and still working on it.
One question, Why is the tuner/tap button always blinking even with the unit completely bypassed?
How do I turn it off?

Thanks

I think it's based on the same usability principe of the ToneCore stompboxes. It's so you can always see the tempo that is tapped in, regardless of whether or not a time-based effect is active. That way, you can tap in your tempo before you activate the effect and when it comes in, it's already lined up- as opposed to having to activate the effect and then tap in the correct tempo while the audience is listening.

[FUSER]

I think it's based on the same usability principe of the ToneCore stompboxes. It's so you can always see the tempo that is tapped in, regardless of whether or not a time-based effect is active. That way, you can tap in your tempo before you activate the effect and when it comes in, it's already lined up- as opposed to having to activate the effect and then tap in the correct tempo while the audience is listening.

Cool!
Thanks.

To be honest, I am feeling a little overwhelmed by it, but hopefully in a few days I will dial in some sounds and set up scenes.

[StompBoxBlues]

Cool!
Thanks.

To be honest, I am feeling a little overwhelmed by it, but hopefully in a few days I will dial in some sounds and set up scenes.

I understand what you are saying, but this is one of the most user friendly and intuititive units I've ever tried out.

I think it might help, just start with the "scratch pad" and pick one other maybe that you know you'll never use "as is"...just start tweaking, you can't hurt anything and it will much more quickly get you into it really!

As you tweak, you already are "setting up scenes" because it comes (at least the scratch pad scene) set to autosave, so change a few pedals, hit a A or B pedal (if C on is default) and go to another scene, go back in and see that that one you chose is still there, it's been saved!

The best way to get to know it is just goof around first, then as questions come up, (maybe print out the Advanced User Manual" from Line6 site, just refer to it when you wonder "but how do I change the scene name?" etc.

When you finally get tired of that, take the manual up, lie on the sofa and just page through it...guaranteed you'll start seeing things and putting it all together.

IMPORTANT too: test something before comitting to it. What I mean, DO NOT go meticulously throug all rows, tweaking, making everything JUST how you like it and THEN try and save the scene, or see if it autosaved...first make an obvious choice, verify that you can save the scene, or autosave works, and then step by set, if you set up the C row as you like it, go out, and back in, verify, then work on the B row, etc.

Just to mention, I thought my unit was broken because I couldn't seem to select a different "type" of effect (if it was OD-yellow and I wanted MOD-BLUE type effect instead)...I tried and even read the manual a few times on that point...turns out I was (used to another mutli-effect) holding down the upper left knob in the LCD-model and trying to turn...it didn't say it in a way I understood in the manual, but you have to just push down AND let up, push down again, til you cycle through the types to come to the one you want.

[5E3]

I'm totally won over by the Facial Fuzz (a.k.a. Fuzz Face) effect in the M13. I'm getting excellent overdrive tones using it with a variety of guitars and amps. A little delay behind it for depth and voila!

[Doyle]

I'm totally won over by the Facial Fuzz (a.k.a. Fuzz Face) effect in the M13. I'm getting excellent overdrive tones using it with a variety of guitars and amps. A little delay behind it for depth and voila!

Nice! I'm liking quite a few of the overdrives. Funny thing is I got the m13 for the modulations and the delays, guess I'll be using OD's too.


Speaking of totally won over. I really like the Bridge of Vibes scene. I played what I could remember of Bridge of Sighs and thought it was pretty damn good.:D

[StompBoxBlues]

Just to mention, this is a NICE feature I didn't expect...

Did you notice that if you turn OFF the M13 (no matter what mode, true bypass, or buffered), completely off, guitar signal passes in what sounds to me like TB?

Means if your power supply failed, or got pulled out, or for some reason the unit turned off, you still can keep playing...pretty nice!

[Jon Silberman]

That is cool!

[boon]

My m13 rig
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/boontsien/Pedalboard/22022009041.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

Awesome, boon. What's the container?

[boon]

Awesome, boon. What's the container?

It's a road ready 32' pedalboard. Thanks!

[cosmos]

It's a road ready 32' pedalboard. Thanks!

hey boon,

do you feel the height on the front of the case is low enough to be able to tap normally?

[boon]

hey boon,

do you feel the height on the front of the case is low enough to be able to tap normally?

The m13 sits on the foamy bit so it's high. As for the drives, the switches sits just over the edge so it's fine as well.

boon

[Zenon7]

Howdy all,
I know this thread isn't really the formal place for introductions, but it's because of this thread that I'm here. It's also because of this thread, and the involvement of Rich and Dale from Line6 that was the tipping point for me buying an M13. I've been slowing plowing through this entire thread since I found it last week.....So I thought this would be a good place to say hello, and for a start post a photo I just shot of my new M13.
Occasional wit, good humour and gear talk to follow!
Cheers all!
Graeme

http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/Zenon7/M13_small.jpg

[srvfan18]

I had an M13 and thought it had some really cool concepts but the overdrives were not at all authentic enough for me. I tried to run my favorite distortions/overdrives through the loop but did not like it. I also had issues with balancing levels between patches. Good for alot of things but not good enough for live IMO. Effects are really cool though. The Verbzilla sounds were really cool.

[gdomeier]

Welcome. Very nice photo!
Howdy all,


http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu334/Zenon7/M13_small.jpg

[Jon Silberman]

I had an M13 and thought it had some really cool concepts but the overdrives were not at all authentic enough for me. I tried to run my favorite distortions/overdrives through the loop but did not like it. I also had issues with balancing levels between patches. Good for alot of things but not good enough for live IMO. Effects are really cool though. The Verbzilla sounds were really cool.
Why would you run your fave dist's/over's "through the loop"? :confused:

[Capn Spanky]

It's funny but this thing does just exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish. I have a Pod XT Pro but I always set it on the cleanest amp settings. The Pod's built in distortion stomp boxes are never on. I use real analog stomp boxes for my gain and distortion sounds. To my ears it can sound really good.

My reasoning is that amp modeling can sound pretty good when kept clean, but modeled digital distortion (whether generated by the amp models or the stomp box models) generally does not. IMHO, of course, YMMV, etc., etc.

[Jon Silberman]

It's funny but this thing does just exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.
I don't get that from your post. Remember, the M13 does a heck of a lot more (and very well) than just distortion. So much so that I've decided I can be happy with it, as it, with an analog overdrive in front of it. And I may yet also add an analog clean boost afterwards. Set up this way, I'm covered though, having hoped originally to be able to rely on just the M13 and nothing else before my amp, I certainly understand the feelings of persons who would pass on the unit because of the distortion tones.

[DavidE]

I had an M13 and thought it had some really cool concepts but the overdrives were not at all authentic enough for me. I tried to run my favorite distortions/overdrives through the loop but did not like it. I also had issues with balancing levels between patches. Good for alot of things but not good enough for live IMO. Effects are really cool though. The Verbzilla sounds were really cool.

Many of us have had great luck with the overdrives. Whether or not they sound "authentic" hasn't been one of my concerns though.

Running your drive pedals through the loop seems unusual to me, but maybe not if you were trying to use compressors or envelope filters in front of your drive pedals. Seems to me that should work.

As for balancing volumes, that's actually pretty easy. Not sure why you had a problem with that.

This pedal is definitely good enough for live use. Sorry it didn't work for you for some reason.

[Capn Spanky]

I don't get that from your post. Remember, the M13 does a heck of a lot more (and very well) than just distortion.

Good point. It's only the digital distortion/overdrive/fuzz stomp boxes I take issue with.

[Jon Silberman]

This is now working for me:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/21596860/356594569.jpg

[redpill]

I think I'm going to wait until Line6 has a QC year that is no more eventful than anyone else's before I go with them. That said, I would prefer them to break things out rather than bundle them together in progressively bigger boxes. Something like their individual pedals, but built different. And breaking out *only* their myriad amp sim models (no multieffects or other gingerbread) into a knobs-only pedal would be great, but they seem dead set against that.

[Jon Silberman]

No way, keep bundling, the M13 is awesome! (My fear now is that they'll come out with a new, even better model next year and I'll want that, too.)

[Mincer]

Yeah but if they do, maybe we can upgrade via firmware. Or make the modeling software available so we can design our own pedals and dump them to the M13.

[Ed DeGenaro]

I had an M13 and thought it had some really cool concepts but the overdrives were not at all authentic enough for me. I tried to run my favorite distortions/overdrives through the loop but did not like it. I also had issues with balancing levels between patches. Good for alot of things but not good enough for live IMO. Effects are really cool though. The Verbzilla sounds were really cool.
I just started using mine live, and at first I ran it with other parts of my board...Reeza OD, Keeler TS9 clone, wah, volume delay. First gig, the delay got removed, then the ODs. Now it's just wah and the volume is about to go. I'm totally tickled with it running it into an old Marshall set clean.
Also did a gig with it i n front of my Axe-Fx/power amp set-up and those two played insanely well together.
Also did an acoustic gig last week running my T5 through it straight to the PA and it was the first time I dug the T5 DI'ed live instead of through an amp.

[getbent]

I read the FAQ on the line6 website and didn't see an answer for this and it isn't a deal killer (I've been toying with getting one) does this device power a variax?

[stilwel]

Not it does not have a Variax input.

[wouldbeirish]

Hi,

Just got an M13 over the weekend. I have 2 questions.

1. Someone hear (I think it was Jon but couldn't find it when I searched) was able to program the M13 to sound like an OCD. I was wondering what type of drive and settings were used for this.

2. What exactly is the difference from a scene from a regular patch? Can a scene store multiple effects in it.

Haven't had much time with it yet. Was able to get the M13 to where I couldn't tell the difference from my Hotcake to what I had programmed into the M13. Thinking of ditching most of my other pedals (except wah).

Ron

[StompBoxBlues]

Hi,

Just got an M13 over the weekend. I have 2 questions.

1. Someone hear (I think it was Jon but couldn't find it when I searched) was able to program the M13 to sound like an OCD. I was wondering what type of drive and settings were used for this.

2. What exactly is the difference from a scene from a regular patch? Can a scene store multiple effects in it.

Haven't had much time with it yet. Was able to get the M13 to where I couldn't tell the difference from my Hotcake to what I had programmed into the M13. Thinking of ditching most of my other pedals (except wah).

Ron

Not sure if I am understanding question #2, but will try and answer...

a "scene" IS a patch in the sense that it is everything you can access at once. Meaning the 12 "pedal settings", looper, etc.

From the factory, when you chance a pedal, or setting on a pedal, it saves into that same scene you are in. Just hold the scene button down for a few secs, you will see all scenes you can access...use the "scratch pad" one when you start (so you don't overwrite possibly nice factory scenes right off the bat) change a pedal type or parameter, go out to another scene, go back and see is remains changed.

Biggest help, get the Advanced guide off the Line6 product page for the M13. Download it, read through, and print out the important pages. I still think for the price, they could have printed it out for us and included it, it's a lot of pages...lotta toner to use up, but in reality there are some sections that are very useful, and many on the pedal types (though some info on some of them is important...and not self explanatory. I think the vibe, something about full intensity makes it vibrato instead of chorus, things like that)...

[wouldbeirish]

Thanks for the info on the advance guide. I'll download it and print it out.

Let me see if I can explain question #2 a little better. Out of the box the unit will auto save when you edit a patch. This is what I've been doing. I have not really gone into the scenes section. What I'm wondering is can you create a scene that holds more than one effect. For example, is there a way if you're in FX1 Switch A to have that one Switch hold both chorus and reverb. That way you're only accessing the one Switch instead of two to get the desired effect(s).

Ron

[michael dukes]

Why would you run your fave dist's/over's "through the loop"? :confused:

Hey Jon,

That's exactly what I'm doing with a Screw Driver Deluxe. The reason is simply that I like the extra range of tones available when you run an M13 boost/comp, compressor, or one of the drives into the Screw Driver. Sonically I really don't feel I'm losing anything from the D/A and A/D conversion. I often use just the Screw Driver with maybe a touch of M13 delay, and again, compared to running guitar > Screw Driver > amp, none of the stuff I love about the Screw Driver suffers.

On the other hand, I'll always put a fuzz face or treble booster clone in front of the M13, because those two circuits really really really want to be plugged directly into the guitar. The response of those pedals to subtle guitar volume knob tweaks is why I love them.

At the risk of repeating myself or sounding like I'm drinking the Line 6 KoolAid, none of this has seemed like a tonal compromise to me in any way. The real pedals integrate very gracefully with this unit, the M13 drives can sound fabulous, and the delay/modulation tones if anything seem better than the green and blue four-button Line 6 units that many of my favorite guitar heros use day in and day out. It really comes down to tweaking IMHO.

But I digress...



Hope this answers your question.

[Jon Silberman]

Sheesh, if you're doing, I'll try it again, too! P.S. Ordered 2 copies of your CD on Sunday, one for me, one for a friends who's gonna totally dig your music. :)

[michael dukes]

Cool, thanks Jon. It's not that I think running a drive in the loop is the way to do it, it's just the approach I intuitively took. If it weren't working well, I'd try something different, but there always seem to be enough fires to put out around here without stirring up new ones.

[StompBoxBlues]

Thanks for the info on the advance guide. I'll download it and print it out.

Let me see if I can explain question #2 a little better. Out of the box the unit will auto save when you edit a patch. This is what I've been doing. I have not really gone into the scenes section. What I'm wondering is can you create a scene that holds more than one effect. For example, is there a way if you're in FX1 Switch A to have that one Switch hold both chorus and reverb. That way you're only accessing the one Switch instead of two to get the desired effect(s).

Ron

Sorry, I'm still having a problem getting what you mean.
But, I think no, FX1 (one of the four "columns" of effects) has three seperate effects, A, B, and C possible to choose. You can only turn on or select one at a time in any one position (what I think you mean by
FX1., switch A) then no...

But you can make a "scene" (really...just hold down the left hand "scene" button, and use one of the "pedal" buttons to select a scene and you'll see!) that would have chorus and reverb selected one into the other (either order) and would come on when you chose that scene.

In any scene you can only have maximum 12 effects available. For playing you can only have maximum 4 effects on the M13 on at once (one from each column).

[dognmoon]

Thanks for the info on the advance guide. I'll download it and print it out.

Let me see if I can explain question #2 a little better. Out of the box the unit will auto save when you edit a patch. This is what I've been doing. I have not really gone into the scenes section. What I'm wondering is can you create a scene that holds more than one effect. For example, is there a way if you're in FX1 Switch A to have that one Switch hold both chorus and reverb. That way you're only accessing the one Switch instead of two to get the desired effect(s).

Ron


Hi Ron,
check the Advanced User Guide and try playing with "Latch" Scene mode vs. "Momentary" Scene mode. You have the choice between loading 12 different pedalboards and having access to each of the 12 stompboxes on each of those boards.

OR

you can set up the M13 so that each of the buttons at your feet is its own signal chain of anywhere from 0 to 4 effects. In that case, it would feel more like a Bradshaw-style rack switcher, with each button being a programmed sound.

[Jon Silberman]

The answer is no. It's one effect per switch unless the model itself combines two effects, e.g., fuzz + flange; or reverb + aftereffect (Octo).

[wouldbeirish]

Okay. Thanks for the help guys. It makes more sense to me now.

Jon,

Were you the one that got a patch on the M13 to sound like an OCD? If so, what settings did you use?

Thanks again,

Ron

[Jon Silberman]

you can set up the M13 so that each of the buttons at your feet is its own signal chain of anywhere from 0 to 4 effects. In that case, it would feel more like a Bradshaw-style rack switcher, with each button being a programmed sound.Oh, I see what you mean. I never thought of doing that. What a cool idea!

[treeuh]

Hi,

Just got an M13 over the weekend. I have 2 questions.

1. Someone hear (I think it was Jon but couldn't find it when I searched) was able to program the M13 to sound like an OCD. I was wondering what type of drive and settings were used for this.

2. What exactly is the difference from a scene from a regular patch? Can a scene store multiple effects in it.

Haven't had much time with it yet. Was able to get the M13 to where I couldn't tell the difference from my Hotcake to what I had programmed into the M13. Thinking of ditching most of my other pedals (except wah).

Ron

I'm interested in this... I tried one out the other day, but I wanted to see what the M13 could do to match it... somebody PLEASE respond to that... lol

[screamtone]

My new M13-centered board:

Signal chain is Zendrive> TS> M13> TU2> A/B Box >Amps (Fuchs ODS/Fender Vibro King).

The board is a PT-2, just to give people an idea of the size. I'll probably put the Zen on a riser and swap positions with the TS, I just don't have anything to use as a riser right now. The M13 power supply is be zip-tied underneath and plugged into the accessory outlet on the PPII+. I'm thinking I may need to swap out the velcro for Dual Lock. The velcro makes me a little nervous.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/screamtone/photo-8.jpg

[nstokes]

My new M13-centered board build in progress:

Signal chain is TS> Zendrive> M13> TU2> A/B Box >Amps (Fuchs ODS/Fender Vibro King).



That sounds like a KILLER setup. VERY nice screamtone!

[treeuh]

why not use the onboard tuner?

[richrenken]

1. Someone hear (I think it was Jon but couldn't find it when I searched) was able to program the M13 to sound like an OCD. I was wondering what type of drive and settings were used for this.


I think I read that guys were using the Line 6 Drive to get that sound. Not sure. Guys? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

[jdhix]

I wonder if anyone else has run into this - maybe there's a solution out there . . .

I had a couple of delays going with a reverb, tapped on the Loop switch and every light flickered and power went down. Turned itself back on and had some random intermittent flickerings before turning itself back off again . . . same thing over and over and over. I wanna trust the m13 so bad, this makes me nervous

I've had it since it's first week of release and haven't had one problem. It is running 1.04 software . . . any ideas/fixes/solutions?

[screamtone]

why not use the onboard tuner?


Too hard to see onstage
Too slow to turn on
If the M13 breaks, or if something happens to the skinny wire on the power supply, I'd be stuck at a gig witout a tuner

[StompBoxBlues]

Too hard to see onstage
Too slow to turn on
If the M13 breaks, or if something happens to the skinny wire on the power supply, I'd be stuck at a gig witout a tuner


Well...the third one, you could have the TU-2 in your gig bag as backup.
The other two, obviously is your call (all of it actually, just saying) but you do know you can adjust contrast on the LCD display in setup? I have no problem seeing mine from standing over it, but you can make it even more easy to see.

As for too slow to turn on...man, you must be tuning up a lot? Or between chords :bow or notes in a solo? I'm not at all saying you are wrong for it, you know how you want to use it and all, I was just fascinated by the reasons, as the thing seeme plenty fast to me, but...

Just curious, do you also have the TU-2 on all the time (non-muting)? or check tuning when holding a note, or something?

[Jon Silberman]

Too hard to see onstage
Too slow to turn on
If the M13 breaks, or if something happens to the skinny wire on the power supply, I'd be stuck at a gig witout a tuner


I see it easily, perhaps you need glasses (serious comment)
Yikes, you truly don't have an extra 2.1 seconds?!
If the M13 breaks, you'll be losing a lot more than your tuner
But hey, they're your needs/limits, if the on-board tuner ain't working for ya, by all means, BYOT (I do the same thing with my Fulldrive 2 to address my own idiosyncratic reactions to the on-board distortion).

[screamtone]

Well...the third one, you could have the TU-2 in your gig bag as backup.
The other two, obviously is your call (all of it actually, just saying) but you do know you can adjust contrast on the LCD display in setup? I have no problem seeing mine from standing over it, but you can make it even more easy to see.

As for too slow to turn on...man, you must be tuning up a lot? Or between chords :bow or notes in a solo? I'm not at all saying you are wrong for it, you know how you want to use it and all, I was just fascinated by the reasons, as the thing seeme plenty fast to me, but...

Just curious, do you also have the TU-2 on all the time (non-muting)? or check tuning when holding a note, or something?

I've adjusted the contrast on the LCD's. I have trouble seeing the white and the blue displays. I don't think the tuner in the M13 is unusable. I've been using it at home until I put my new board together. On stage, I just prefer the "instant on" and the easier to read display of the TU-2. Before TU-2's were around, I used a TU-12 with an A/B box, so I'm pretty used to the "instant on" concept. I understand that the M13 tuner has to take that long to turn on, since it shares the same button as the tap tempo. I just don't want to wait that long. I already had the TU-2 and I'm very used to using it, so it's no big deal for me.

I mute the TU-2 when I'm tuning, and I check my tuning a lot. If there's a part of a tune with 4 bars of no guitar and I've noticed something a little funny, I'll check my tuning during those 4 bars (usually just the string that I think is out). I always check it when the singer is saying something to the audience between songs. We normally play 3-5 songs with virtually no dead time between them, and I have maybe 30-60 seconds before the next 3-5 songs.

If I just carried the TU-2 in a bag as a spare, then I'd have to keep track of an extra cable and battery, and I wouldn't be able to tune until I dug it out. It's just easier to keep it on my board.

EDIT: Yes, Jon, I do wear glasses, but not on stage. It's never been a problem for me to see the lights or knobs of my other pedals, as my vision is not that bad. Remember, the 1 inch LCD is about 5 and a half feet from my eyes when it's on the floor. :) If the M13 breaks, I can get by with the two overdrives, a tuner, and the reverb in my amps. That's how I played for years.

[StompBoxBlues]

I've adjusted the contrast on the LCD's. I have trouble seeing the white and the blue displays. I don't think the tuner in the M13 is unusable. I've been using it at home until I put my new board together. On stage, I just prefer the "instant on" and the easier to read display of the TU-2. Before TU-2's were around, I used a TU-12 with an A/B box, so I'm pretty used to the "instant on" concept. I understand that the M13 tuner has to take that long to turn on, since it shares the same button as the tap tempo. I just don't want to wait that long. I already had the TU-2 and I'm very used to using it, so it's no big deal for me.

I mute the TU-2 when I'm tuning, and I check my tuning a lot. If there's a part of a tune with 4 bars of no guitar and I've noticed something a little funny, I'll check my tuning during those 4 bars (usually just the string that I think is out). I always check it when the singer is saying something to the audience between songs. We normally play 3-5 songs with virtually no dead time between them, and I have maybe 30-60 seconds before the next 3-5 songs.

If I just carried the TU-2 in a bag as a spare, then I'd have to keep track of an extra cable and battery, and I wouldn't be able to tune until I dug it out. It's just easier to keep it on my board.

Ah..it's similar to what I do (the tuning when "something funny" between song checks, etc.).

For my other pedalboards, I just got ahold of the Turbo-Tuner which I just picked up from the post office and haven't tried yet, but from videos on youtube (demo) it seems to me that the turbo is about the fastest tuner I have ever seen...if it is an issue for you, just thought I'd mention it.

[Jon Silberman]

EDIT: Yes, Jon, I do wear glasses, but not on stage. It's never been a problem for me to see the lights or knobs of my other pedals, as my vision is not that bad. Remember, the 1 inch LCD is about 5 and a half feet from my eyes when it's on the floor. :) If the M13 breaks, I can get by with the two overdrives, a tuner, and the reverb in my amps. That's how I played for years.
My eyes must still be pretty good shape then even after all of my mileage as I'm 6'5" and that's a long way from the stompboxes! :eek: :o

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682310/1753109/21971227.jpg

[dognmoon]

I wonder if anyone else has run into this - maybe there's a solution out there . . .

I had a couple of delays going with a reverb, tapped on the Loop switch and every light flickered and power went down. Turned itself back on and had some random intermittent flickerings before turning itself back off again . . . same thing over and over and over. I wanna trust the m13 so bad, this makes me nervous

I've had it since it's first week of release and haven't had one problem. It is running 1.04 software . . . any ideas/fixes/solutions?


that sucks, man. I've had mine since August or so and I haven't had the slightest hiccup with mine. And I travel it pretty regularly. I'm actually in Kansas with mine this week. You might try sending a PM to Rich Renken who is the product manager.

[LunarSF]

...We normally play 3-5 songs with virtually no dead time between them, and I have maybe 30-60 seconds before the next 3-5 songs.


Ditto.

I do think that a dedicated tuner-on switch (with instantaneous access) would have been better than the tap-tempo switch doing double duty. Put the switch up high near the display. And maybe a row of LEDs above the screens (or in conjunction with the screens -calling out the note) would have also been nice instead of just the small graphics used now. But too late now.

At the moment, I play a Dano 12 string and a 6 string with trem or bigsby...sometimes emphatically. That delay in tuner time incites a panic in me if the next song requires me to be in at the start of the next song.

Setlists, song placement, and set pacing are very important to me, so I often keep a tuner linked in and on. And that M13 tuner is fine, accuracy-wise.

As far as Line6 coming out with a "better version" of the M13...I wouldn't hold your breath. How long were the modellers out before this came out -10 years? 9? And let's not forget, this is just a bundling together of that SAME technology, with some added tweaks and functionality (and it's pretty good!). One of those functions is the users ability to update firmware/software.
This is a company that is rally intent on milking everything they can from the same cow. For the next 7-10 years, expect that all updates will be to software, not hardware.

[Jon Silberman]

When the milk stays sweet, keep making butta.

[mapleneck72]

My unit was working great until a couple weeks ago, when I ran into the same power resetting problem. I thought it was just bad power at my house but it also happened at practice the other night. A few other people have run into this and the advice at the Line 6 forum was reset to factory settings (make sure you save your current scenes first in a sysex file so you can reload it later) and reload the 1.04 firmware. If that doesn't solve the problem, then you need to take it to a service center.

I was not having the power resetting problem last night but I reset it back to the factory settings and reloaded the 1.04 firmware. We'll see how it goes tomorrow night. I'm going to bring a backup pedalboard with the "green box" until this gets resolved.

I wonder if anyone else has run into this - maybe there's a solution out there . . .

I had a couple of delays going with a reverb, tapped on the Loop switch and every light flickered and power went down. Turned itself back on and had some random intermittent flickerings before turning itself back off again . . . same thing over and over and over. I wanna trust the m13 so bad, this makes me nervous

I've had it since it's first week of release and haven't had one problem. It is running 1.04 software . . . any ideas/fixes/solutions?

[5E3]

This happened to me on my first M13 after 2 weeks of use. Luckily I was able to return it to MF for an exchange. I assumed it was defective, so didn't even call Line 6 to look for a solutions. Maybe I should have... :dunno

I wonder if anyone else has run into this - maybe there's a solution out there . . .

I had a couple of delays going with a reverb, tapped on the Loop switch and every light flickered and power went down. Turned itself back on and had some random intermittent flickerings before turning itself back off again . . . same thing over and over and over. I wanna trust the m13 so bad, this makes me nervous

I've had it since it's first week of release and haven't had one problem. It is running 1.04 software . . . any ideas/fixes/solutions?

[AudionAnalog]

Got the M13 going ! I have to say ! what a fantastic unit !!!

Can anyone point me to great settings for a lite OD' that could compare to my Durham Sex drive ?

[richrenken]

My unit was working great until a couple weeks ago, when I ran into the same power resetting problem. I thought it was just bad power at my house but it also happened at practice the other night. A few other people have run into this and the advice at the Line 6 forum was reset to factory settings (make sure you save your current scenes first in a sysex file so you can reload it later) and reload the 1.04 firmware. If that doesn't solve the problem, then you need to take it to a service center.

I was not having the power resetting problem last night but I reset it back to the factory settings and reloaded the 1.04 firmware. We'll see how it goes tomorrow night. I'm going to bring a backup pedalboard with the "green box" until this gets resolved.

I don't think doing a factory reset will do it. It seems to be a power issue being caused by low voltage at a particular club or house. That even seems weird to me because it should be fine at a lower voltage.

Do any of you guys have one that does it consistently? Like in a certain place or at a certain time or in conjunction with certain pedals etc? Something I could get back here to study? We have not been able to duplicate it here.

[thudle]

may be a silly question, but can the m13 function like a POD (i.e., running directly to a PA system without an amp)?

[Jon Silberman]

No, because it models stompboxes, only (no amp sim's).

Guys, I must say, I'm really bonding with my M13 now. Damn good I was patient and took y'all's advice on trying different stuff. At band practice tonight, everything was working for me and I mean everything, including the overdrives and Tron Up. I brought my Fulldrive 2 with me and had it hooked up before the M13. Used it for the first couple of songs, then shifted to the Tube Driver model and never looked back!

In addition, our keyboardist shut down the power strip that my M13 and my amp was connected to. When he realized what he did, he turned it on again. I'm always super careful to turn on units like the M13 first, before the amp, to avoid any potential for harmful surges. The amp didn't make more than a tiny pop, on and off. I'm really liking this!

[treeuh]

dangit... I'm on vacation and away from my rig (including the M13)... I miss that thing and all of the knob-twiddling that comes with it :(

I'm going through withdrawal here... I played with some friends at their church and was forced (against my will) to run direct without any modeling or anything... except a lonely Boss OS-2 Overdrive/Distortion... I made it work, but it wasn't the same.. :( still awesome night on the whole :)

2000th post!

[TheFlash]

Got the M13 going ! I have to say ! what a fantastic unit !!!

Can anyone point me to great settings for a lite OD' that could compare to my Durham Sex drive ?

Start with the screamer model with the gain almost all the way off (or maybe even all the way off)...set the volume to taste and then start eq-ing. It's not perfect to my ears when compared to my menatone red snapper...but it still sounds good for a low gain od/dirty boost.

[richrenken]

2000th post!

AAAUUGHHHH, I wanted to be the 2000th post, oh well. I will get 2500.

[treeuh]

Sorry Rich...

If I'm online and see "2499" I'll respectfully hold out until you can get it ;)

[screamtone]

AAAUUGHHHH, I wanted to be the 2000th post, oh well. I will get 2500.

Just delete three of your old posts and post again.

[richrenken]

Just delete three of your old posts and post again.

I couldn't cheat. Dale got 1500 and now it is like 1498 or something, but he was still 1500.

[StompBoxBlues]

I think I read that guys were using the Line 6 Drive to get that sound. Not sure. Guys? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

I don't remember seeing it, but when I saw the question my absolute first thought was that the Line 6 drive OR dist models would be my first startpoint. The OCD gets into SLO100 territory pretty fast in my opinion, and I did note similarities (also right out of the gate, thought the Line 6 dist and OD sounded like "best" for that style)