Another "mic suggestion" question

[wahfreak]

I'm looking something different for recording guitars. I play a 18w Badger through a Port City 1x12OS with a Vinetto strat and mostly play blues based music. Ocassionally I'll do some heavier rock stuff with an Anderson DT with a HB in the bridge. I run that through a Presonus Fire Box into Sonar 4.

Anyway, I'm looking for something different in regards to mics. I have a SM57 right now but I want some variety or at least be able to mix and match. I don't know if that means a 421 or e906, maybe both (used).

I could spend around $600 but that does necessarily mean I need to spend it all either. I heard the Peluso R14 is really nice for the money. It's tough to know what to get, when you're not really sure what you want.

Suggestions or comments??

[bkd_guitarist]

I use a Cascade Fat Head ribbon mic for micing guitars. Works great. It get a lot of good pub around here.

[69 Sound]

One suggestion to look into would be the Cascade Fathead II if your considering trying a ribbon out. I haven't tried one yet myself (although I'll be ordering one soon)

If you do a search online the reviews for the Fathead seem to all be very positive. I'm sure the Peluso R14 would also be another great option. I absolutely love my Peluso 2251

[wahfreak]

Ok, here's a question. Not really knowing or experiencing the sonic differences between LDC, SDC, ribbons, etc, do think it might be better to get my feet wet with some of these cheaper ones first before taking the plung on one mic (like the Peluso) that is more expensive??

[shawntp]

I second the option to get the Fat Head - I was looking for something different and was using a SM57, SM7b, TLM103 - That little fat head did the trick.

The fat head is great on guitars - I think its one of the best performers per $ on cabs. I actually got rid of my Fat Head and moved up to a Crowley & Tripp Naked Eye so I could use it on vocals and such but for just guitar cab recording the fat head was great and while the NE is more refined at $800 - On a cab I would have no problem going back to the Fat Head.

[nbarts]

You could get an MD421 & Trion 7000 & I doubt you would need anything else for guitars. Both will mix with your 57 nicely. 421 for more traditional sound, Trion for fat sound.
If you can't get it to sound good with these, then it's not the mics that you need to worry about.

[mrface2112]

another +1 for the Sennheiser MD421.

i've never been too into the sm57. i think one of the reasons people like it so much is that it takes eq extremely well. but i've never placed a 57, brough up the fader and said "that's the sound i'm looking for". it's always taken significant sculpting to get it to work for me.

the 421 on the other hand......sounds great to my ears from the start AND it takes eq well. i prefer that on an amp to a 57.

the BLUE Dragonfly is often quite nice on amps too.


cheers,
wade

[gitman]

a ribbon mic for recording amps is the hot thing of the moment so everybody talks about them - try before you buy is my suggestion. a relatively inexpensive E906, which was designed for the task, will certainly get you nice results.
lots of the bigger onloine dealers will take a mic back if you don't like it so you can be safe in trying out various options. a russian made Oktave ribbon comes to mind or a chinese SE electronics... do a search over at the gearsluts and hugeracks forums- lots of experienced folk over there !

[wahfreak]

You could get an MD421 & Trion 7000 & I doubt you would need anything else for guitars. Both will mix with your 57 nicely. 421 for more traditional sound, Trion for fat sound.
If you can't get it to sound good with these, then it's not the mics that you need to worry about.

It's not so much that the 57 doesn't sound good or that I'm unable to get a good sound, I would just like something different. Maybe a bit more clarity with more top end might be nice. Like you said, fat might be good too. Although many a great tune has been recorded with a 57, there are many more out there that I haven't heard yet.

[MichaelK]

I have a SM57 right now but I want some variety or at least be able to mix and match. I don't know if that means a 421 or e906, maybe both (used).

It's not so much that the 57 doesn't sound good or that I'm unable to get a good sound, I would just like something different. Maybe a bit more clarity with more top end might be nice.

Since you want something different, I wouldn't recommend either the MD421 or e906... or the e609. They're somewhat different from the 57 on a cab but not by a whole lot. They're in the same family, dynamic mics. You already have the best dynamic mic for a guitar cab, IMO.

I have not priced these mics second-hand but you might be able to swing one of them...

I'd suggest either a condenser or a ribbon mic. Maybe a small diaphragm condenser close to the cab, like an AKG C-451 or my current favorite, a Neumann KM184.

If you want to blend it with a SM57, then try the 57 up close and a large diaphragm condenser a foot or more back, like an Audio Technica AT-4047.

The Royer R-121 (ribbon) is fantastic on guitar cabs, but probably out of your budget. I haven't used a Royer R-122 but I've heard (from people I trust, not just the net) that it's also very good. It's phantom powered and delivers a hotter signal, so it might be easier to get a good sound if you don't have a great preamp. I've never used other ribbons for this purpose, so can't recommend any first-hand.

[meterman]

I've got a 57 which I like and an e906 that I love the sound of. Would really like to try a 421 and there is a ribbon mic that got great reviews called Peluso that is about $650 and supposedly can hang with the Royer 121....

[nbarts]

Looking at the gear you currently have I wouldn't spend money on a royer or the peluso. I did a direct comparison between Royer 121 & CAD7000 and while I found 121 a better mic, the difference is not that big.

Scroll down the page, you'll find the comparison files on my website.
http://www.dizero.com/geartest.php

[testing1two]

The Peluso mics are absolutely wonderful and a great value for the money. However, you can enter the LDC foray a little cheaper with something like a Shure KSM series or an ADK (a personal favorite of mine in the 'bang for the buck' category). All the mics you have mentioned are great investments that each deliver very usable signature sounds, but if you simply want contrast, then an LDC is the ticket.

Option 2 - continue down the road of pursuing an e906 or a used 421 and then consider investing in a quality mic pre. Oddly enough, even 57's come to life when they're run through good mic pres.

[wahfreak]

Looking at the gear you currently have I wouldn't spend money on a royer or the peluso. I did a direct comparison between Royer 121 & CAD7000 and while I found 121 a better mic, the difference is not that big.

Scroll down the page, you'll find the comparison files on my website.
http://www.dizero.com/geartest.php

Thanks for the info everyone.

nbarts, those do sound very similar....after you fixed them!

Which always begs the question, what comes first, a better mic or a better pre. I was told a mic always trumps the pre.

[Guitar Slinger6]

I purchsed a Blue Woodpecker, I will be recording with it today or tomorrow. I chose it over the Royer because of 2 things. #1. The Wood Pecker is phantom powered and the step up from the 121 to a phantom power was about $600.00. Total difference in the price between the the active Wood Pecker and the active Royer was about $900.00. #2. The company that sold me the mic was so confident I would love the Blue WP they gave me 9 days to try it out and return it if for any reason I did not like it.

I will let everyone know if it stayed or went back.

[nbarts]

Which always begs the question, what comes first, a better mic or a better pre. I was told a mic always trumps the pre.

While the mic makes undoubtedly more difference than the preamp, they both make very subtle differences compared to your rig components.

Here is my thought:
If you can use the money to upgrade your rig, that's the first thing you should do, this includes your guitar, amp, cabinet, speaker.
If you are completely satisfied with your rig then buying a good preamp makes sense, however, as you probably already know, good pres cost a lot of money. So the question is how serious you are about recording? How much experience do you have recording or mixing?

[carival]

I know it's not directly answering your question but, an alternative approach might be to try and hire an engineer that has been doing this successfully for 20 years or so to come to your place and offer some suggestions based on what you are currently doing and hearing with your existing gear. I'd be willing to bet that it would get you closer to what you are trying to accomplish, for less $$$, than buying a new mic. Possibly unlike a "flavor of the month" microphone, what you learn may serve you for the rest of your life. Just a crazy idea..

[Denyle_Guitars]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, check out the Heil PR-30. I think it's subjectively better on guitar amps than the MD421, which I used frequently before the PR-30.

[testing1two]

mics and mic pres have an interdependant relationship just like guitars and amps do. A Two Rock is only going to do so much for a Squier and an Anderson will only sound so good through a Peavey Bandit.

I haven't heard the Heil PR30 yet, but a few of my live sound colleagues speak very highly of them.

[wahfreak]

While the mic makes undoubtedly more difference than the preamp, they both make very subtle differences compared to your rig components.

....you can use the money to upgrade your rig, that's the first thing you should do, this includes your guitar, amp, cabinet, speaker


No disrepect intended but what would suggest I upgrade to if I already have a Vinetto DC60 with Lollars, an Anderson Drop Top going through a Suhr Badger>Port City 1x12 OS with a Lexicon MPX1 in the loop? A D'Pergo, a Dumble and a 2290??

My logical choice was a better pre or a better mic. Going by what I been taught, a better mic trumps a better pre (assuming I could only have one of the two).

Either way, I wasn't necessarily looking for better, I just want something different to compliment a 57. I just don't have enough experience with mics to make an informed decision about what to buy. I don't mind spending $200 on a CAD or $600 on a Peluso. I'm sure either one with serve me well. Just looking for suggestions.

[nbarts]

If you want my opinion I think 2x12s sound better, but it's arguable.

As for the mics & pres that's all the suggestions I can give you. Your experience is far more important than the variety of mics & preamps. If you were willing to spend over a grand for a mic & pre there would be place for thinking. Within your budget MD421 comes to mind first which is close to what you describe you want & also it's a mic that you will probably never sell. The 3 mics I like for miking amps are SM7, 121 & 421.

[testing1two]

Something else just occurred to me. You might enjoy the sonic/texture difference of using an iso cab and cranking your badger w/o using the power scaling.

Check these out: http://www.jlhproducts.com/axetrak/

[MichaelK]

Dontcha love it? Ask for suggestions on a mic to compliment a SM-57 and look what you get.

I was about to advise you on the cheapest airfare from Detroit to Miami, but I think you'd do better to paint your house a light gold color than to swim 15 minutes after eating.