Low E and A string one octave down,how do you do it?

[Philleken]

Hi folks,

I saw Lauryn Hill do it and I wonder how it' been done.Here's a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofe6sc6_CpI&feature=related.

Somebody told my that you have to use a pickup which only pics up the vibrations of the low E and A string, run that signal to an octaver pedal and mix it with your normal sound.

This sounds very logical but how is it done?Lauren Hill uses a nylon string guitar so this rules out magnetical pickups.I on the other hand want to use it on a steelstring guitar.

Thanks,
Phil.

[David Collins]

Yes, if you want to drop the low strings an octave you would need an hexaphonic piezo with individual sensors and outputs to process separately.

I didn't hear anything other than a plain old guitar with a plain old tuning on that video though.

[walterw]

listen to it again through a big system. it's got that synthetic, harmonized low octave sound doubling the two lowest strings.

lr baggs makes a 6-way bridge piezo, and any guitar synth set-up can be programmed to double (or otherwise process) certain strings.

[David Collins]

Ahhh...... There are things that are easily missed listening through the built-in speakers on my little MacBook. I'll have to plug it in. :o

I though Baggs made one, but wasn't sure. I've seen a few others as well, but don't recall who else made them.

[royd]

Baggs makes a hex pickup as do RMC and Graph Tech. I think they are each available in a steel string version as well as the nylon string version. She is not using an octave pedal though, it is a synth module. So... you're looking at serious bucks to get the pickup, pre-amp and synth module.

[Philleken]

Thanks for the info,

I hoped it could be done without a guitar synth.
Better hire a decent bassplayer then.

Phil.

[walterw]

i'm reviving this oldie because i just saw an amazing band called the duhks, and their guitar player had a more elegant and much better-sounding solution.

he used a baggs M1 soundhole pickup, along with an under-saddle piezo, ran stereo out of the guitar. the M1 went into an E-H pog, set to boost the sub-octave and kill anything else, while the other pickup was used as a normal acoustic output to a separate channel.
now here's the trick: he used normal acoustic strings, except for the E and A, where he used nickel-plated steel electric strings. soundhole pickups are calibrated for bronze wound strings, which have much less magnetic "output" than steel-wrapped strings. putting electric strings on the E and A made those two strings way louder through the magnetic pickup, while not really changing the balance of the piezo pickup. now his octave pedal only really responded to the two "hot" bass strings, while all 6 sounded normal through his "acoustic" pickup output.

with a little judicious EQing and his tasteful and expert playing, he could basically serve as the band's acoustic guitar player and bass player at the same time.

the "bass" produced by the octaved low strings was reasonably natural sounding, perhaps because it came from a magnetic pickup and so sounded more like a regular bass guitar.

the key is to get a soundhole pickup with adjustable poles, like the baggs M1, the dimarzio reference acoustic, or the venerable sunrise. that way, you can further emphasize the 1 or 2 bass strings you need while further minimizing the others, even to the point of removing the polepiece screws on the strings you don't want sent to the octave pedal.

[jpfeiff]

There's a guy named Steven King who had used this kind of octave setup to great effect, IMO. He has a series of fingerstyle Beatles CD's among other things that I think sound pretty cool with the octave on the two low strings. He uses a separate pickup for the two low strings. You can search for him on YouTube and see his guitar with the two pickups. Also, supposedly Boss's latest octave pedal can actually be set to only pick up the lowest notes and ignore notes above a certain pitch, effectively achieving the same result without separate pickups. Haven't tried it myself, but would like to!

[the mink]

Here's a solution that's so simple it should have its own sticky...

The Boss Super Octave pedal is a basic octaver, but with two crucial twists:
(1.) It's polyphonic and doesn't crap out on chords and overlapping notes
(2.) It has a 'range' control that allows you to set a cutoff point at which you no longer hear octaves. In other words, you can have it so that it only generates a low note up to, say, just below open 'D', leaving all higher notes unaffected.

It also tracks really fast and has a good tone. I sure hope you didn't go to all that trouble with special pickups, etc.

[walterw]

the difference is, with the separate pickup system, the "bass" tone is generated by the two strings along their entire length, not just on notes below a certain pitch.

[the mink]

True, but in application I find that up to D, E or F# usually gets the job done. Interestingly, the bass notes ring out louder as you go higher up the neck (typical octave pedal behavior), which is nice because those octave notes on the 4th string can muddy up the chords, whereas it's really nice to have them when playing high notes on the 6th string. It really does accomplish what you guys are talking about, with no installations and so on.