help me a design a bass for piano string sound

[slopeshoulder]

Hi. Please help me design a bass for "piano string" sound.
I don't want a Ric (too "copper pipe" sounding), but something in the Squire, Phil Lesh, Greg Lake (brain salad surgery) piano string direction.
I'm all ears, but was maybe thinking bolt on neck, mahogany body, two dark stars spread apart. I suppose i could do a neck through design. I'd rather not have to buy an Alembic.
What do you think/say/advise?

[bbocaner]

I'd do a mult-lam neck with ebony fingerboard. Stay away from anything too exotic in the neck, it should be predominantly maple. Mahogany body would be great if you do neck-through, but I think it'd be too mid-heavy as a bolt-on. Get a beefy bridge.

As far as pickups, look at the q-tuners. They're very different than the low-z darkstar/alembic model you are trying to replicate, but they do a great job at replicating the sound with a different philosophy.

Take a look at the AC guitars filter-based preamp, too -- although I'd check with them on how compatible they'd be with the q-tuner pickups.

[Alpha Audio Works]

Two words....... Modulus Quantum!

[BigDoug1053]

I think a bolt-on neck would be inappropriate to get a clear piano-like tone. Check out neck-through the body basses. My Warwick Thumb Bass 5 has a very piano like sound and it's a neck-through. Steinbergers can also get that tone, so graphite necks might help. I had a XP Steinberger bolt on - wood body with graphite neck - and it sounded fabulous - real clarity with punch. Older Steinberger XL basses (all composite) would do it too.

good luck!:BEER

[The Golden Boy]

I think a bolt-on neck would be inappropriate to get a clear piano-like tone. Check out neck-through the body basses.

I disagree.

It doesn't make sense to me, as a neck thru or set neck instrument should transver vibration better- but IME, the most resonant basses are bolt ons.

A maple neck bolted to an ash or alder body has historically been proven to give bright, ring-y tone. Mahogany, as mentioned, when used in basses, tends to give that middy sound that doesn't have the brightness or resonance that I associate with a "piano" like sound.

Make sure you're going full scale and if you're interested in using the Darkstars- pickup placement is going to be key regardless of the pickup you're using. I like the typical "Fender Bass" sound. If you look at all the successful Fender basses, the pickup is always in the same scale location. With the original P, the post 57 P, the Jazz neck pickup, the G&L L series instruments- the pickup is always in the same location on scale.

[fendernazi]

I hate to admit it but a very long time ago i used an Ibanez Soundgear with a mid scoop and got that very same piano type sound. i wouldn't recommend anyone buy an Ibanez or scoop the mids but it is a bass that can do it.

And bolt on is a way better direction to go for that sound. Whoever was talking about the neck thru having it is getting that tone from the pre amp in the active circuit because no passive neck thru is going to give you that sound.

[theroan]

I would model somthing after a Warwick Neck Through, Ebony neck was a great call. Perhaps a chambered body? Check German bass companies they really define boutique basses to me. A 2 piece bridge is essential. Along with a dense heavy wood.

In regards to the neck through debate, when it comes to resonance and sustain there is no way a bolt on can compete with a neck-through. If that wasn't the case people wouldn't shell out for neck through. Boltons have there advantages but for a piano sound, neck through is the way to go.

[The Golden Boy]

In regards to the neck through debate, when it comes to resonance and sustain there is no way a bolt on can compete with a neck-through. If that wasn't the case people wouldn't shell out for neck through. Boltons have there advantages but for a piano sound, neck through is the way to go.

People shell out for a neck-through more often than not because they believe it's "better." I think people attempt to apply what they think would make the most sense to one continious piece of wood having superior resonance and sustain than two pieces connected together either by bolts or glue. IME, that's not the case.

What neck through basses have this piano sound? Definitely not my Thunderbird. Not the Ibanez SR1500 I used to have, but possibly my old Rick- but the pickups didn't allow for that sound in an even distribution of frequencies- it was either really bright and plinky or muddy thuddy.

[bbocaner]

People shell out more for neck-through instruments because neck-through instruments take more labor to build and therefore are generally more expensive.

There isn't one construction method that is better than another. They sound different.

The archtypical "piano string" instrument is Alembic, which are almost always neck through. The sound can be had with a bolt-on, too.

[TimmyP]

Can you get a hammer-struck like tone with funk fingers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_fingers

[walterw]

it may be more about the rig than the bass, as long as it's a clear-sounding long scale.

[Sir M]

Norstrand quad coil pickups. Extra scale length... maybe 36" for 4 string, 37" for 5 or more. Glockenklang preamp. Maybe, piezo bridge saddles. Thats all I got... :RoCkIn

[Zilmo]

2Tek.

[Denyle_Guitars]

The archtypical "piano string" instrument is Alembic, which are almost always neck through. The sound can be had with a bolt-on, too.

And according to Alembic, the ebony strips in the neck contribute a lot to that sound.

[bbocaner]

And according to Alembic, the ebony strips in the neck contribute a lot to that sound.

I don't think so. Ebony stringers in the neck is kind of an unusual feature for alembic, but when they use it they always say it contributes to a strong fundamental and good sustain. Sustain is good, but "strong fundamental" isn't what I think of when I think of the stereotypical "piano" sounding bass -- I want lots of colorful overtones. Granted, I have not heard an alembic with ebony stringers in the neck, but given how alembic describes it...

More often, alembic uses things like vermilion, purpleheart, cherry, along with maple.

[James Hill]

Modulus modified with 2Tek bridge.

[Zilmo]

Modulus modified with 2Tek bridge.


To die for.

[cmatthes]

Ditto on the 2TEK.

Pure genius.

Pure, great freakin' sounding genius I mean.

[The Golden Boy]

What's going on with the 2Tek stuff?

I remember they were going to get things going again (was this through that Lynn guy?) and I was interested a while ago- but lost interest.

[BigDoug1053]

My Warwick Thumb Bass 5 is neck-trough - but also has a brass nut. That nut probably contributes to the piano like tone, but the neck-through is important too. I did have a Steinberger XP bass with a bolt-on carbon composite neck that was also very barky and clear. But composite necks are very rigid and stable.

Neck stability and rigidity is important to a piano like tone. So I stick with recommending a neck-through generally - though a brass nut or zero fret on a serious bolt on might give you the same effect. It all depends on the mysterious interaction between materials, design, and build quality.

With so many variables affecting the tone of an instrument, the down side is that a custom instrument could cost you a lot and still not deliver the tone you seek. I would try to play as many different types by quality builders as you can to see if you can get the tone you want. I suggest checking out Warwick, Steinberger, Modulus, Music Man, and Zon. The touch basses like the Warr and Mobius are also piano like. There are some really fantastic "non-custom" basses out there!

[Zilmo]

What's going on with the 2Tek stuff?

I remember they were going to get things going again (was this through that Lynn guy?) and I was interested a while ago- but lost interest.


2Tek has re-designed the bridge, and is working at the moment to secure manufacturing both in the US, and offshore. That Lynn guy has had nothing to do with 2Tek since around 1998.

[markus5]

Bartolini pickups single coil , Bartolini preamp, straight to the output jack, no passive vol or tone, I've used this setup on a 1969 Fender Jazz, 1980's ESP surveyor and a fretless 4 string Bass Collection, Piano Twang ! - works every time !

[bostonwal]

I think people should start posting clips of their best piano sound....

[alotawatts]

something in the Squire, Phil Lesh, Greg Lake (brain salad surgery) piano string direction.
I've never thought of Squire's Ric sound as 'string' ....more growl to me but I do agree Lake's (Gibson Ripper ?) on Brain Salad is VERY piano like and not even a neck -through body. So maybe maple neck and body, round wounds, positioning of humbuckers and even a tone switch/dial along with the tone volume pots e.g. Ripper...?