Tell me about the Neumann TLM 103

[wahfreak]

I posted a thread about mics the other day saying that I wanted to pair my SM57 with something different on my guitar cab. I got a few answers which is appreciated. Michael K suggested a AT4047, then I ran across a used Neumann TLM 103 for $600. I called about it and it was already sold. How would those two compare??

[LSchefman]

For guitar cab I wouldn't choose the TLM103. I owned a pair, so have experience with them in this and other applications. It's a nice mic, but not my fave Neumann in any event.

But I did have a cool, weird thing happen with the 103 and a guitar cab:

Several years ago I was recording my old Mesa Tremoverb with a 57. My TLM103 was on one of those very large Atlas studio boom stands, hanging upside down facing a corner, with a plastic freezer bag hung over it to keep the dust off between sessions. I didn't realize it, but it was plugged in, and not only that, the phantom power was on, and the fader was up on my console.

I was getting a very strange, but in a cool way, guitar sound, and couldn't for the life of me figure out what was going on, until I went down all the channel strips on my board, and finally noticed that this fader wasn't on what I thought it was. It was on the 103.

This is probably not good at all for the capsule or for the audio, but that day it was strangely pleasant. I wound up keeping the track in the mix. I'm sure that I couldn't reproduce this accident even if I tried, but I had a good laugh.

[elambo]

The best thing about the 103 is the name. Unfortunately, it's perhaps the worst of all Neumann mics. I don't like them at all.

[MichaelK]

I don't like them at all.

I'm kinda underwhelmed by it, too. A friend of mine uses it as his main vocal mic and I'm always bugging him to get something else. It's kind of a running gag between us.

I forgot to mention the AKG C3000-B. I recently used it at a friend's studio (different friend) to track elec guitar and every track sounded really, really good! I have no idea what else it's good for, but that day I was very impressed with the sound we got.

[wahfreak]

Thanks guys, that pretty much tells me what I need to know.

[Audioholic]

The 103 is not a bad mic by any means, and It will probally be better then most mics in the 500 dollar range. But, it is the lower end nueman, and compared to other nuemans, it is a little thin and not as smooth. But then again, nuemans are expensive as crap.

So, as much as the 103 sometimes takes flack, it is a good mic and 600 dollars is a great price for one!!!

[loudboy]

So, as much as the 103 sometimes takes flack, it is a good mic and 600 dollars is a great price for one!!!

It's a very nice $6-700 mic. Not so good at $1100.

We have two for our VO rooms and they work VERY well for that purpose. I probably wouldn't use one for a guitar cab, tho.

[elambo]

Dark overall with transistory mids, and when you compensate with additive eq it's only more transistory. I don't care for the low end either. Mushy. Muddy. Whatever you'd want to call it. $1100, $600 or $300 - it's not a mic I like regardless of price. I'd much sooner use a AT4047 or C3000.

[testing1two]

I agree that the TLM103 gets a bad rap. I think it's because people unfairly expect it to be a U87 at 1/3 the price...which it is not. However, my 103s works great in a variety of applications, including VO and yes, guitar cab micing (granted, we're not talking 1" off the grill cloth). Just remember that if you enter the world of industry standard large diaphragm condensers, you'll need a mic pre of equal or greater caliber as the typical console pres and the pres built into your DAW interface just won't deliver the goods. In other words, don't judge the TLM103 if you're plugging it straight into an M-Box.

[turdadactyl]

I tested a TLM103 side-by-side with the Groove Tubes GT-67 a few years back. I had a female singer do some quick demos into each in the store's recording room and then some acoustic guitar. I fell in love with the GT-67 and thought it blew the Neumann away...which shocked me because of the Neumann name.

It's now about 6 years later and I have 2 GT-67s that I use on anything and everything. I love them as drum overheads and especially for male vocals. I would say look for one of those used on ebay and save yourself 200 or so bucks over the TLM 103.

[turdadactyl]

you'll need a mic pre of equal or greater caliber as the typical console pres and the pres built into your DAW interface just won't deliver the goods.

Very true! Of course, this probably won't be a huge concern right now if you're talking about just getting into this level of mic.

[lutelover]

I agree with testing1two; his comment is really insightful.

The sound with the 103 is such that you'll have to carefully choose on what to use it, and, equally important, you'll have to pair it carefully with a mic pre that, more often than not, adds a "more than customary" dose of magic.

My TLM 103 -- one of the very early ones -- does very well for me through my Fearn VT-2 pre, but there is so much magic in that pre that it compensates for the "neutrality" of the 103.

Still magic listening to an 87 though!

Best,

dt

[loudboy]

Dark overall with transistory mids, and when you compensate with additive eq it's only more transistory. I don't care for the low end either. Mushy. Muddy. Whatever you'd want to call it. $1100, $600 or $300 - it's not a mic I like regardless of price. I'd much sooner use a AT4047 or C3000.

You're the first guy I've evr heard call it dark...

It's one of the brightest mics in our locker.

[Audioholic]

You're the first guy I've evr heard call it dark...

It's one of the brightest mics in our locker.


Yes I agree, Dark is NOT the correct description of this mic. I have heard it on a daily basis, and dark it is not. A bit bright, and my only real complaint is a little more brittle sounding on the top and thin, as compared to some of Nuemans other mics. Its a good mic, it really is, But all Nuemans are overpriced, but dang, some of them are sweet.

[wahfreak]

Just remember that if you enter the world of industry standard large diaphragm condensers, you'll need a mic pre of equal or greater caliber as the typical console pres and the pres built into your DAW interface just won't deliver the goods.

Regardless of the mic I buy, my goal is to build a few of the SCA pre's which puts me somewhat in the "better" pre catagorie. I just can't buy both at the moment. I also couldn't (and wouldn't) buy anything even close the Fearn VT-2 pre. Not unless I win the lottery. As usual, I'm looking for the "best bang for the buck" senario in my home studio. My wife sings a little so we might end up doing some vocals with it too. I found a new 4047 for just over $400.

[elambo]

Regardless of the mic I buy, my goal is to build a few of the SCA pre's which puts me somewhat in the "better" pre catagorie.

SCA, especially the N72, are among the "best" of mic pres. You'll be happy!

[elambo]

You're the first guy I've evr heard call it dark...

It's one of the brightest mics in our locker.

Perhaps that's the normal character of a 103, but the last time I plugged one it it was much darker than expected from an LDC. I believe it was while recording upper-register female vocals. I gave it 30 seconds and we moved on to the next mic.

Is it possible that this mic went through a design change during it's lifetime? Two people have now called it bright. The one I used was from the earlier batches of the 103.

[teleharmonium]

I love my 4047 for guitar cabs, I also use it for upright bass and as a drum overhead. It has yet to disappoint.

[loudboy]

Perhaps that's the normal character of a 103, but the last time I plugged one it it was much darker than expected from an LDC. I believe it was while recording upper-register female vocals. I gave it 30 seconds and we moved on to the next mic.

Is it possible that this mic went through a design change during it's lifetime? Two people have now called it bright. The one I used was from the earlier batches of the 103.

I've used 3, and have noticed a little difference between the way that one of them ramps up, when phantom is supplied, so maybe there has been some changes. That one seems to have slightly more low end and is a little more susceptible to popping, also.

All 3 are towards the brighter end, but not like those god-awful SC-1's.

The tremendous output, and non-existent self-noise make them a really nice choice in our VO rooms, where we do a fair amount of sessions w/people who aren't pros, and don't know how to work a mic. We've been very satisfied w/them, but I scored them on E-Bay for $650-700. No way for $1200.

Never been my first choice for singing.

[MichaelK]

My wife sings a little so we might end up doing some vocals with it too. I found a new 4047 for just over $400.

That's a good price.

It's an excellent vocal mic. I'd even say perfect for some people, women in particular. It brings out a "husky" quality in certain voices.

[thewhit]

I have recorded a few times with TLM 103 and agree that it can sometimes come across a little thin but a friend of mine who uses it as his go to mic is able to make up it's deficiencies with some good engineering. I have a 4047 that I personally like a lot and although I haven't personally heard it on female voices, I have heard that it does extremely well.

[Audioholic]

Perhaps that's the normal character of a 103, but the last time I plugged one it it was much darker than expected from an LDC. I believe it was while recording upper-register female vocals. I gave it 30 seconds and we moved on to the next mic.

Is it possible that this mic went through a design change during it's lifetime? Two people have now called it bright. The one I used was from the earlier batches of the 103.

Not sure on the design aspect, but I have literraly heard this mic hundreds of times, from different people (working in post studio and connecting with talent) and it sounded pretty consistent from voice to voice. Worked well with some, others didn't compliment their timbre as well imo. All had plenty top end though, and seems to lack a little thickness whicih makes it come off a little thin on some voices. For others is may be perfect. Have heard great recordings on acoustic guitar using this mic.... Its a great mic, just overpriced to start with.