Strats with trems that stay in tune...

[pickaguitar]

What's the secret setup?

I've taken my partscaster to 2 reputable luthiers for setups and the guitar plays great however when I use the trem even just once the guitar goes out of tune :(
My current setup...callaham bridge flat to the body...3 springs

I'm jealous of those here who say they stay in tune when using their tremelo!

[Strat81]

Its likely that your nut is to blame, have any of the techs looked at nut to make sure the stings are not binding in the nut slots?

[RvChevron]

A well set up floating trem can stay in tune better than with the trem lay flat against the top of the body, if no strings break of course.

Nut, how much the strings move in the saddles......etc etc. Also how much do the woods move when using the trem.

How the strings are wrap on the tuners, if the tuners are working properly.

Lube all contact points also.

[SgtThump]

I don't know all of the secrets, but I do know that using a mechanical pencil to coat the string slots in the nut with lead can help tuning issues BIGTIME. It can actually make a night and day difference.

Also, I just traded off a K-Line strat with a vintage trem that stayed in tune with trem use better than any other guitar I've owned with a vintage trem. I had a G&L Legacy that was similarly stable.

I'm not sure what the full recipe was, though!

Chris

PS - It's my opinion that the tuners matter the least, which is opposite of what alot of people think.

[Structo]

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce.
It's a lube in a syringe type thing.
I put it on the saddles, nut and string tree(s).
A properly cut nut is very important.

I use five springs and float the trem plate about 1/16" above the body.

[SgtThump]

That last post reminded me of something... I had a Strat style guitar once that would "catch" the strings in the string tree. I put vaseline on that part and it worked great.

[matte]

the nut slots are generally the culprit.

have you tried locking gotoh klusons with height adjustable posts? i've been using them for some time now and have had zero tuning stability issue with any of my whammy guitars. they eliminate the need for string trees.

[bynt]

I've got a six screw trem that a luthier took out four of them so I now only have two screws holding it down. That and a graphite nut that's cut properly and I've not had any problems. Good luck!!! It's really frustrating when it doesn't work.

[Seegs]

I have a hardtail trem;)

Chow,
Seegs

[buddastrat]

I just lube the nut and tree. Sometimes I use Big Ben's and sometimes just a pencil. I like the trem to float to be able to pull up at least a major third on the G. Sometimes I set it for a minor third.

I always use the regular vintage type Kluson gears. I never use lockers, clamps, rollers and all that unecessary junk. The main thing is a few wraps on the posts and tune up and stretch properly. They all seem to stay in tune really well, even a MIM strat. Even with heavy dive bombing or shaking it by the bar. If you the string is stretched and tuned properly, and it doesn't come back to exact tune, the big mistake a lot of folks make is to start tuning again. All that's required is a quick snap of the bar and it'll be perfect. But you should figure out which string and where it's getting hung up, when you do, it'll stay in tune like a Floyd.

The main thing in my mind is to allow the bridge to float and real simple stringing. No ties or fancy wrapping. I have the best luck with the six screw trem, even over a two post.

[TooManyHobbies]

What's the secret setup?

I've taken my partscaster to 2 reputable luthiers for setups and the guitar plays great however when I use the trem even just once the guitar goes out of tune :(
My current setup...callaham bridge flat to the body...3 springs

I'm jealous of those here who say they stay in tune when using their tremelo!

It's all about the trem design. The Wilkinsons stay in tune.. period. Just test fit a VG300 in my current build, and yanked it around... still in tune.

[pickaguitar]

Seems it's time to lube!
I used to have some nut sauce...now I need to find it :)
If not I'll try the pencil.

My gears are the kluson vintage style from RS.

[Structo]

Yes, on a couple other strats I have the staggered Sperzels ( great tuners by the way) which most of the time you can get away without string trees.

I agree that a two point type trem like a Wilkinson is going to be more trouble free but for those that prefer the vintage look and vibe of the six screw vintage trem, (I like Callahams for those) it's all about how you set it up.
The problem I have had with Wilkinson trems is that they are a licensed part and as such, the quality varies greatly from various manufacturers.
I bought two one time that were advertised as having stainless saddles and steel blocks. Both had alloy saddles and zinc blocks. They were both the same model number.....

On my latest partscaster I went with an aged look (relic) and used Kluson split post tuners and a vintage trem.
Still working on getting it right in the set up.
I made a bone nut and have a string tree on the B & E string.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/Structo/61%20Sonic%20Blue%20Relic/relic1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/Structo/61%20Sonic%20Blue%20Relic/relic6.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/Structo/61%20Sonic%20Blue%20Relic/relic8.jpg
With these tuners you want to minimise the number of wraps around the post because that can lead to tuning problems as well since they can add stretch and pull with a lot of windings.
But I put a lot of wraps on mine since I am still fine tuning the nut slots, so I need the ability to unwind the strings so I can slide them off the nut to be able to file the slots.
But when I'm done with the nut I will put new strings on it and use only about 1 or 2 wraps around the posts.

I use five springs on a floating trem and if it is down on the body you can't really do a very good vibrato or pull ups.

There are a couple devices that help a trem, one being the Tremsetter and the Tremol No.

Years ago I put a tremsetter on a floyd equipped guitar and it solved all the problems of detuning.

They can be a little tricky to set up but once you are done the trem always returns to zero.
They go into the trem spring cavity and once installed and the cover is put on you would never know it was there.

[jamison162]

Grosh 1088, micarta nut and locking Klusons is the most stable strat bridge I've ever used. Every 6-screw I've tried or played has had major tuning problems.

[Structo]

Can you buy that trem separately or do you have to buy a Grosh guitar?

[GCDEF]

"bridge flat to the body"

That's the problem. The bridge needs to float and it needs to be parallel to the body. All that stuff about the nut is true, but the bridge needs play in both directions to come back properly in tune.

[Tone_Terrific]

Try searching back about a year and you may find some excellent info provided by John Phillips (we miss his inuput!!) on how to optimize the bridge setup, esp re. screws. (removing 4 is risky)

[pickaguitar]

Ah ha!

I thought I was playing it safe by having it flat on the body

...so a little float is necessary

[jamison162]

Can you buy that trem separately or do you have to buy a Grosh guitar?

It's a modified 1088, so no, you'de have to buy a Grosh to get one exactly like it. He grinds down the mouting plate a certain way to prevent binding and to facilitate rotation back to "point zero".

[GCDEF]

Ah ha!

I thought I was playing it safe by having it flat on the body

...so a little float is necessary

Yep. You'll notice a big difference.

[pickaguitar]

Yep. You'll notice a big difference.
Gonna do some tweaking tonight...thanks!

[GCDEF]

Gonna do some tweaking tonight...thanks!

Post back with the results. Remember the bridge has to be parallel to the strings for best results.

[JeffreyC]

"bridge flat to the body"

That's the problem. The bridge needs to float and it needs to be parallel to the body. All that stuff about the nut is true, but the bridge needs play in both directions to come back properly in tune.


Tell that to David Gilmour - ;)

[RvChevron]

Can you buy that trem separately or do you have to buy a Grosh guitar?

The newer Gotoh 510T or 510TS series, as now used by Tyler and Suhr are much better than even the modded 1088.

[5E3]

I've never had a problem with this off the shelf American Strat going out of tune. I use the tremolo frequently.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii180/5e3/fender/IMG_0007_43.jpg

All stock parts, only a setup performed after buying it new.

[GCDEF]

Tell that to David Gilmour - ;)

And his tech and his 5 backup guitars waiting backstage. For us mortals, floating helps a lot.

[claudel]

+1 for Big Bend's Nut Sauce.

Tried it today and it noticeably smoothed out the works on an already reasonably smooth acting Strato.

[ratter]

All of the stuff mentioned has been good advice. Once you've got all the bases covered, any decent trem should stay in tune really well, even a 6-screw vintage bridge. In my own personal experience, the biggest culprit has been too-tight nut slots pinching the strings.

[02Singlecut]

A Grosh !!!!:hide

[MightyGuru]

No string trees, a nut cut correctly, a little graphite/lube on the saddles and nut if you need it. I also float the bridge about an 1/8" off the body. I only use the two outside screws on the vintage 6-holer type bridge. All my vibrato equipped guitars stay in tune.

[paulg]

Firstly, the trem has to float. Remember, this was Leo's vision and to say otherwise is blasphemy. Ditto the five -way, but that's another flaming thread. I've had good luck fine tuning the nut, but lube is the secret. Nut sauce or Stew Mac's graphite grease are tops. I also, put a little lube under the tree.

[Brett Faust]

There are a few things that may help .
Essentially converting your 6 screw trem to a 2 screw.
Most trem screws are not concentric in the area just under the head .What you end up with is 6 almost in line fulcrum points ,not good.
The safe fix is unscrew the inner 4 slightly above the base plate so you now have only 2 fulcrum points.
You are left with a stock look and the security of 6 screws,and a trem that does not bind as easily due to fluctuating moisture content in the body wood changing the space between the screws.
Float it enough to pull 1/2 step up and you can give a little yank to pull back in tune if things get a little sticky.
Lube the friction points and smooth out any sharp spots at the nut and saddles to avoid broken strings and sticking points.
The cool thing about floating your trem is the ability to waver the note above and below your pitch,giving you a wider more expressive vibrato.
I hope that helps ,good luck.

[Sean]

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/Saumack/shaller_floyd_rose_trem.jpg

[Steve Gambrell]

Float the trem or not, it WILL NOT affect the tuning, if you've got the trem set up correctly. Make sure the nut slots are correct. When you put strings on, make one wrap above the string, and the rest below. This serves two purposes. The top wrap, and the subsequent wraps underneath, effectively lock the string in place. Second, the wraps below the string increase the break angle. Move to the trem. If you want it to float, tighten all six screws. If not, loosen the inner 4 a little. Then get in the back of the guitar, and adjust the claw till the guitar returns to pitch. It's a balancing act between the trem springs, and the strings. And remember, when the "synchronized" tremelo was designed, the light gauge strings that we use today hadn't been heard of. Remember, too, that you hear very little trem on most of those old tunes. And remember, Leo wasn't always right. The Bigsby trem is a much smoother, although more subtle, design.

[Janne.M]

A perfect cut nut (bone, tusc, grafite), no string trees and good balanced bridge.

I had a '95 Fender Lonestar strat, just replaced the nut and removed the string trees...

Now on my Suhr, it's perfect from the start, Staggered & locking Speltzers tuners and a tusc nut.

Janne

[HoboMan]

I used to have a Strat Plus Deluxe that had a two point trem, HipShot Trem Setter, roller nut and Sperzel locking tuners.
I could dive bomb with it and not go out of tune.