I need quick help identifying a 40's Gibson J series! please.

[90wreck]

Here is the story.
An older fellow is sick and he is ready to sell his old Gibson Southern Jumbo.
(I think that is what it is).
I will include a few pics and a link to my photobucket for the rest.
I can't tell what year it is or know the value.
It looks like it may be a rosewood or maple back sides.(I CAN'T tell..may be mahogany which is the usual...but doesn't scream mahogany at me for some reason)
Tuners are changed, but the originals are included.
Plays great, sounds good and the neck set is real good.
There is alot of wear and checking.
The frets were replaced in the 50's and are in good shape.
He said the guitar is in the exact shape when he bought it in 54 for 20-.
He has never played it.
Would you guys take a quick look and tell me what this is and an approx. value?
There are no numbers on the guitar and the neck is FAT.
Thanks for your time and expertise.
I will need to move fast on this or it will be gone.
Regards,
Don
http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...thern%20jumbo/ (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/aug2008107.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/aug2008106.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/Copyofaug2008065-1.jpg
__________________

[MichaelK]

The guitar needs the bridge reglued and probably a neck reset.

Just out of curiousity, how can you tell? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm asking.

The back looks like mahogany to me and I agree that the bridge doesn't look like the original.

I assume no one has mentioned that the pickguard's been replaced because it's so obvious...?

Whatever, GRAB IT, MAN! Great find.

[zombywoof]

The logo and lack of bound fingerboard show the guitar to be a 1946 or 1947 Southerner Jumbo (Gibson never called the guitar a Southern Jumbo until the recent reissues) which many Gibson lovers consider to be the pinnacle of the SJ.

Value is tough. A eBay store just sold a '51 (the same as your friends but with a different logo and bound fingerboard) in really good condition for $4,000 which is admittedly a heck of a price.

Mid-50's SJs tend to go from between $4,000 and $4,800 depending on condition. Your friend's has some pretty good wear on it and it does look like it needs some work. I would guesstimate in the guitar's current condition maybe $5,000 to $6,000 give or take a few hundred dollars. If it were in better condition your friend might pull $7,000 to $7,500 although they do not move very quickly at that price. Again, this is only an estimate based on those I have seen sold in this neck of the woods.

[plaintop]

"(Gibson never called the guitar a Southern Jumbo until the recent reissues)"

What?

[plaintop]

The pickguard looks ok, bridge is questionable and the tuners look to be changed. Early SJs are pretty scarce, esp a '46. Better grab it.

[zombywoof]

"(Gibson never called the guitar a Southern Jumbo until the recent reissues)" What?

Here is the Gibson catalog from 1962 - notice what the name of the guitar is.http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/zombywoof51/gib62p35.jpg

[90wreck]

Tons of thanks guys. Really.
I have my cash together and will see him Monday A.M..
I am assuming this is a 46 era SJ.
Back/sides unknow(the closer I look at the interior pics, I am thinking RW)
I will try and get the original tuners back on (if possile and If I buy it)
Leave it as as, as it plays great.
I think the bridege is ok. The pic is deceiving. I doubt I could get a piece of paper underneath...I may be wrong though.
Looks like I may be able to score this a little under market.
Not a steal, but fair.
Hang onto to it as as my house/jammer/player and see what happens years down the road.
First thing will to take off the sttrings for a week or two.
Let things settle, and bring it back to life gently from there.
(My philosphy on this is alot like breaking in an old Vox speaker from old...Gently)
I really hope it happens.
I may be pressed to give him the asking price considering condition.
(Around the 4K-mark)

Or should I fly with it and hope they go up as most do in past?
Any info/advice?
Thanks,
Don

[Dotneck]

Its hard to buy when you think the prices are at the top of the curve...but they do keep going up especially for desirable instruments. And late 40's early 50's gibson flat-tops are very desirable. And no matter what comes out of Montana..the original Gisnobs command a pretty penny.

If you want more opinions go to the vintage corner of the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum. There are some serious vintage Gibson historian/collectors over there....

[zombywoof]

If it were me, I would hang on to the guitar. It sure as heck ain't gonna go down in value.

I think $4,000 would be a steal on that guitar. I would jump on it for that price and I am notoriously cheap.
The last three 1955-1959 SJs I saw sold in this neck of the woods went for $4,000, $4,600 and $4,800. Your friend's is obviously worth more.

If the guitar has no major structural issues (such as needing a neck reset) I would think $6,000 would be a good price. If he has the original case all the better. They are worth at least $350 to $400 in just decent condition.

Again, the 1946 and early '47 SJs are considered the be the finest ever built and I have seen stores offering them in the $7,000 to $7,500 range.
Your friend's SJ does have some significant play wear so it probably will not fetch top dollar plus folks expect to pass less in a private sale than they would pay the dealer.

Your friend needs to photograph the serial number which will be on the neck block inside the guitar.

Photograph the back of the headstock so you can see if the original Kluson tuners are there (changed tuners will not affect the value too much as long as no extra drilling was done).

Try and get photos that show the bridge is fine and the neck does not need to be reset.

If your friend wants to be on the safe side, he could go with one of George Gruhn's quickie evaluations. You send him photos and what info you have on the guitar and he will get back to you with an assessment and value estimate. Last time I did it, cost me $35 and it could save your friend from "giving" the guitar way.

Don't let your friend act hastily. Taking a bit of time and doing some research could be worth a few thousand bucks to him.

Good Luck - That is a gem of a guitar.

[MichaelK]

Well, I think the space that you can see under the back of the bridge and the very low saddle would make it a pretty safe bet.

Hard for me to tell if there's a gap, but you could be right.

The low saddle could also be because it's a replacement bridge

[MichaelK]

The pickguard looks ok

OK meaning...? Not original, surely...

[90wreck]

OK meaning...? Not original, surely...
After looking at the guitar again today, I believe the PG to be original. That is picking wear around it.
Wouldn't swear to it, but almost positive..
(I made an offer, he is going to think about it...He has a grandaughter that may take up guitar.....NOOOOOOO!)
Here are some more closeups.
I don't think I could slide a peice of paper underneath the bridge.
A good pic of the interior is included.
Looks dark, it may be a type of RW

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/aug2008082.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/aug2008088.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/aug2008087.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/wreck90/gibson%20southern%20jumbo/aug2008089.jpg

[plaintop]

OK meaning...? Not original, surely...

It may have been off and back on the guitar, but that's a teardrop pickguard from the period. It looks absolutely right in those pics.

[plaintop]

That's mahogany back and sides. They made rosewood SJs only in '42.

I'm certainly no expert, but everything on that guitar looks right to me except the tuners.

[MichaelK]

That is picking wear around it.

Yeah, I can see that in the new pics. Bridge looks OK, too.

[Dotneck]

That's mahogany back and sides. They made rosewood SJs only in '42.

Sure looks like mahogany to me too.

[PedalFreak]

It's a late 40's, early 50's SJ. That is definatly Manogany back & sides.

[jbryant3]

The B&S's look like hog to me. The page the fellow sent in, albeit from the 60's states that the SJ is hog back and neck. Man the stuff I wish I'd have hung onto in the day!!! Gold now!

[zombywoof]

It's a late 40's, early 50's SJ. That is definatly Manogany back & sides.

Again, can't be - An SJ made between '47 and '55 will have a gold block logo and a bound fingerboard.

From the start SJs were made with mahogany backs and sides although I have run across a rosewood guitar SJ built during WWII.

[zombywoof]

Not from the start. The first from on SJ's were Rosewood (and some were maple).

Apparently, we are both wrong - The SJ on the left is from the very first batch and has a mahogany back and rosewood sides. The one on the right is from a later batch and does have a rosewood back and sides. The maple ones are rare as heck. Either very few were made during the war or they did not last.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/zombywoof51/GSJ-1942.jpg

[konavet]

According to the book "Gibsons Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars, 1942 was the only year with the firestripe teardrop pickguard. So unless the pickguard has been changed in the previous post's pictures, they're both '42. The book also shows a "skunk stripe" SJ from '43 (without the firestripe pickguard). Gruhn's guide also notes no banner headstock in '46, but a crown inlay c. '47. The belly bridge was up by '49. Gruhn also notes that only the first batch in'42 was rosewood, the rest were mahogany B+S, except for a few wartime maples. I vote for '46, or very close to it.

[plaintop]

According to the book "Gibsons Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars, 1942 was the only year with the firestripe teardrop pickguard. So unless the pickguard has been changed in the previous post's pictures, they're both '42.

That's not a fire stripe -tear drop pickguard. It's a referred to as a "mocking" pickguard.

[konavet]

That's not a fire stripe -tear drop pickguard. It's a referred to as a "mocking" pickguard.

You are correct, sir. Didn't look close enough.