Why, why can nothing do what a Les Paul does?

[electronpirate]

Love hate thing here.

Love the sound. Thick, killer, seems to control and accent highs without strangling them.

Hate the playability (baseball neck). Unless the neck is in the thin range, I struggle with it. (Small hands, small guy.) Upper registers are a fight. Cleans can be iffy.

Why the hell can't I get a chunk of wood that sounds like it, without the drawbacks? My theory is that I need to just get one, play it for a year, and get used to it. Hell, Tommy Shaw aint nothin' but 4'10', and he can rip on one. But do I want to pay $3k for one just to do that?

Oh sh$t...probably.

EP

[geetarman]

It's simple just get a Paul with a slim 60's profile neck and get some after market pups to improve the cleans like Lollar Imperial low winds.

[esoteric pete]

get an R0 and turn your amp all the way up.

[Brock]

I have a guitar that sounds like the best Les Paul with a thin perfect neck. Its a Teye. Look him up!!!

[lv]

goldtop with lollar low winds.....clean tones: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6554119

[Tone_Terrific]

2 insurmountable 'problems' with LP's:

-Short scale cramps upper frets together
-neck joint makes reaching upper frets even worse

Anybody mount Strat pups into an LP?

[bluesyjacuzzi]

get a RO cloud nine if you can find one. light weight beautiful cleans with the stock bbs and very nicely made.

if not one of those try the standard faded from 06 on. they are also chambered like the C9 and sound great. also not very expensive.

good luck.

[JimH]

My view is that there's plenty of LP ball park guitars - but if they're not close enough you'll just have to get used to it. In my view they are close enough - The nuances of LP are subtle as compared to another similar guitar, particularly when you consider the variability of LPs anyway. - factor in pickups, set up, amp etc and in my opinion there's no reason not to get something with better playablity - others disagere.

[Strat58]

HI yeah love it or hate you yoy will have to get used to play a guitar, like Tele and Strat its a art of its own. But you will be rewarded with the sweetest sound you'l ever hear. Sometime I pick up a Tele and its isn't working a strat no not either, okay mine hands are up to the Les Paul today, other days its the other way round.
Spend my whole life playing Strats, Tele and Les Paul (V, Explorer, Firebirds) and its always a bit of struggle, I play as much as I can but can't compete with the pro's that are playing 6 or 7 ours a day. Practice make the skills.
Peace Strat58

[Mr.Hanky]

JUst shut up and deal with it girly men.
http://gaygamer.net/images/active_life_athletic_world_for/hans_franz.jpg

[Baby Evil]

Les Paul Standard DC Plus. A little brighter, but I don't mind that, it still has plenty of that thickness, and it's much easier to play. And I love how it looks too. It's not on the Gibson site now, but I did buy one a couple of weeks ago.

Jan

[soldano16]

PRS has tried for decades to capture the LP sound. They can't do it.

Nothing but a great LP sounds like a great LP. The best guitar sound in the world.

[Bassomatic]

PRS has tried for decades to capture the LP sound. They can't do it.

Please. It's not alchemy. PRS has been interested in doing their own thing with their take on LP-ishness. If they wanted a direct knockoff, they'd have one.

[frank62]

^Yes. the PRS Se custom with the humbuckers is a contender. 600 new.

[Jon Silberman]

JUst shut up and deal with it girly men.
http://gaygamer.net/images/active_life_athletic_world_for/hans_franz.jpg
LOL! You made my day, Hanky! :D

Seriously - for the same basic reason nothing can do what a Strat, Tele, or PRS can, either ... which is why I own one of each and a LP, too.

[JPF]

I learned about LPs late in life, but was amazed at how that fourth chord from the intro to Aerosmith's "Dream On" was so comfortable a stretch when compared to a longer-scaled Strat or CU22...

[JimH]

Seriously - for the same basic reason nothing can do what a Strat, Tele, or PRS can, either ... which is why I own one of each and a LP, too.I agree.

Question - why can nothing do what a Les Paul can do?

answers are:

A: They can, look at all those great, ergonomically friendly dual humbucker kick ass guitars out there.

Or

B: Because they're not Les Pauls.

That's it really. Accept them or accept the alternatives, for me the alternatives are good enough.

[Devnor]

Just got a new Historic R0 and I couldnt be happier. The look, the sound, the way it hangs on the strap...nothing else feels like it. I love my PRS, Hamers and boutique shredders but the R0 is in a class of its own.

[buddastrat]

I agree. They are magnicent sounding beasts. Not as comfy as a strat for me body wise, but playing wise, LP's practically play themselves.

[Holliman]

It's simple just get a Paul with a slim 60's profile neck and get some after market pups to improve the cleans like Lollar Imperial low winds.

Very wise suggestions. Imperial low winds are the bomb. I won't play anything but 60's necks.

[XKnight]

Why, why can nothing do what a Les Paul does?
Because it doesn't say Gibson on the headstock and there is no substitute.

[takakat]

I have been playing guitars with HSH split coil pickup configurations and I can get pretty much Les Paul and Strat sound from one guitar. Even Strat's 2 and 4 positions are there.

[bluesjuke]

Love hate thing here.

Love the sound. Thick, killer, seems to control and accent highs without strangling them.

Hate the playability (baseball neck). Unless the neck is in the thin range, I struggle with it. (Small hands, small guy.) Upper registers are a fight. Cleans can be iffy.

Why the hell can't I get a chunk of wood that sounds like it, without the drawbacks? My theory is that I need to just get one, play it for a year, and get used to it. Hell, Tommy Shaw aint nothin' but 4'10', and he can rip on one. But do I want to pay $3k for one just to do that?

Oh sh$t...probably.

EP





Sounds like a case of publicly displayed GAS.

[Bassomatic]

Because it doesn't say Gibson on the headstock and there is no substitute.

Absurd.

[cvansickle]

Get a Les Paul Goddess. Smaller neck and body profile, lighter weight, but still retains the LP sound and vibe.

[mdog114]

PRS has tried for decades to capture the LP sound. They can't do it.

Nothing but a great LP sounds like a great LP. The best guitar sound in the world.

I have an Ibanez 2 HB, maple-capped, Mahog body, set neck guitar with a 24.75" scale that sounds identical to my lp.

[Hootad Binky]

I think the tuneomatic bridge and that heavy stop tailpiece vibrating over such a heavy chunk of wood does the trick ;)

And playability? For me, the wider, flatter neck of my LP (compared to a Strat, which I have to grip) is much easier to play; for the higher notes (something I'm working on right now) I find if I push my wrist forward/higher and really concentrate on how my hand and fingers must deal with the more awkward angle then I can make some progress.

[uOpt]

My PRS McCarty sounded very much like my Les Pauls, and good at that. The McCarty fixes the issues you mention. I'd say try that.

The pickups weren't too my liking, though. I like medium wind PAFs, the McCarty pickups have a bit too much kick.

[bluesjuke]

I think the tuneomatic bridge and that heavy stop tailpiece vibrating over such a heavy chunk of wood does the trick ;)

And playability? For me, the wider, flatter neck of my LP (compared to a Strat, which I have to grip) is much easier to play; for the higher notes (something I'm working on right now) I find if I push my wrist forward/higher and really concentrate on how my hand and fingers must deal with the more awkward angle then I can make some progress.



TIme will make the upper frets a no brainer.

You can get Fender necks as fat or fatter than Gibsons nowadays too.

[FrankieSixxxgun]

I find that my ES-335 will do everything and more than what my Les Paul can do, and it'll do it better. Just my 2 cents.

[bluesjuke]

The 335 is a Gibson Les Paul's only competition cause it still has Gibson sound.

Other may be nice, play nice, and sound nice too but they are not the same as the Gibson.


Frankiesixxxgun,
Welcome to the Gear Page!

I see your in Clearwater (with my ex).

If you ever get the chance go see Sarasota Slim.
He will knock your socks off!

[electronpirate]

JUst shut up and deal with it girly men.
http://gaygamer.net/images/active_life_athletic_world_for/hans_franz.jpg

Clearly the finest post so far...Including my original post.

Agreed that this is probably publically displayed GAS. Nothing to be done.

I think those damn Yamaha's from the 80's were pretty much the closest thing. Basically a tree with some frets and pickups. SG2000 or something like that.

Or I could buy an Ernie Ball MM, and be done with Gibson alltogether.

EP

[Paul86]

Hey lv,
great clip!

[Mark C]

It depends on your ears and how picky you are. If you want the EXACT sound of a LP, then you need a guitar built exactly like a LP, which means that big neck joint, thick mahogany body, short scale, maple top and two buckers. If you can handle some changes in the tone, you can get a guitar that has a longer scale, or different neck joint, or lighter body. When you change the design - you change the tone. Doesn't have to say Gibson, just has to stick to the original specs (see Gustavsson) to sound like a LP.

To some, those minor tonal differneces are just that - minor. To others, they're absolutely huge. Me, I dig LPs, but I'm perfectly happy on any guitar that's 95% of the way there, even happy doing my ZZ top tunes on a 335.

[grapeshot]

Tommy Shaw is 4'10"?!

[Millo 3.1]

I have a guitar that sounds like the best Les Paul with a thin perfect neck. Its a Teye. Look him up!!! can you provide website?

[electronpirate]

http://teye-guitars.com/

I'm afraid to look at the prices there. They seem more art than guitar. I'd personally have to play one before plunking down 1/3 of the I'm sure steep price for one of these.

Grew up in the Southwest. I'm not thrilled with 'Turquoise'.

[Leonc]

Listened to the clips at the Teye website. Didn't sound like a Les Paul to me. Sounded good...but not like a Les Paul. Maybe it does in person...but I really doubt it. Let's see, different construction, different materials, different bridge, different shape, way different electronics...why would it sound like a Les Paul?

[Leonc]

Nothing will sound like a particular guitar model unless it's made the same way, using very similar design, materials, construction, electronics. There will still be some variances from one Les Paul to the next (or Strat, Tele, PRS, what-have-you). You can sometimes get close using other designs, materials, etc. (of course, it depends on how different they are), but it'll never sound the same unless it is darn near the same. There's nothing magic about it...

[Brock]

Listened to the clips at the Teye website. Didn't sound like a Les Paul to me. Sounded good...but not like a Les Paul. Maybe it does in person...but I really doubt it. Let's see, different construction, different materials, different bridge, different shape, way different electronics...why would it sound like a Les Paul?
I played mine for a many GPer's and many have stated that it was the best and smoothest Les Paul type tone they had ever heard. I have many Les Pauls including Juniors and specials.... My Teye is my first choice to play. It has many different sounds that it can create...... not just a humbucking guitar. The funny thing is when you do research of tone wood you'd be able to tell that certain kinds of sounds can be achieved when combinations of woods are joined together. For instance....mahogony, maple and rosewood are what most Les Pauls are made out of. But the funny thing is, some customs where made of just mahogany and ebony... no maple.... but didn't sound like an SG..... this is because of how the ebony reacted. Its a very hard wood and gave it bite. SG's are just mahogony and rosewood.... a totally different sound then the all mohagony Les Paul with ebony. So a Teye, with the combinations of mahogany, ebony, aluminum and some sweet Lollars... can make some pretty convincing Les Paul sounds. I dont think the shape is all that different.... single cut away looks like a single cut away. If there is any doubt about Teye and his knowledge of tone.... Just call him. He loves to talk about tone and what his guitars can achieve. Ive been ruined by this guitar.... all my other guitars are now wall hangers.


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s155/taelynn_01/teyeatmimis006.jpg

[hazel-rah]

from another little guy with little hands, trust me, you'll adjust. by the way, fatter necks sound better...

[bluesjuke]

Nothing will sound like a particular guitar model unless it's made the same way, using very similar design, materials, construction, electronics. There will still be some variances from one Les Paul to the next (or Strat, Tele, PRS, what-have-you). You can sometimes get close using other designs, materials, etc. (of course, it depends on how different they are), but it'll never sound the same unless it is darn near the same. There's nothing magic about it...



That was my point.
Lots of guitars can have a just as good sound but not the same sound.

[Millo 3.1]

Well I knew the name sounded familiar... I think that guy's supposedly a good flamenco player here in town--never heard him, though. So he's making Zemaitis-style guitars. Thanks for the recommendation but I can't even look at those guitars, wonder if I could play them, LOL! Well at those prices, fuggedaboutit! My plan for a 2008... 2009? Std is still standing.

[FrankieSixxxgun]

The 335 is a Gibson Les Paul's only competition cause it still has Gibson sound.

Other may be nice, play nice, and sound nice too but they are not the same as the Gibson.


Frankiesixxxgun,
Welcome to the Gear Page!

I see your in Clearwater (with my ex).

If you ever get the chance go see Sarasota Slim.
He will knock your socks off!

Yeah, my Les Paul can't compare to my ES-335. Plus, I'm a big guy at 6'2" and 205lbs, so I look kinda silly playing an LP.

Don't know your ex (is she hot?) but I've heard that Sarasota Slim is amazing. I've not yet had a chance to see 'em yet. Thanks for welcoming me aboard. I need more stuff to waste time at work when I'm not doing anything, and nothing beats a very active gear geek forum! :D

[ZenFly06]

Clearly the finest post so far...Including my original post.

Agreed that this is probably publically displayed GAS. Nothing to be done.

I think those damn Yamaha's from the 80's were pretty much the closest thing. Basically a tree with some frets and pickups. SG2000 or something like that.

Or I could buy an Ernie Ball MM, and be done with Gibson alltogether.

EP

I bought a SG2000 in 1976 over a brand new LP Custom...and paid $50 more for it. The Yammie, had neck through, built like a tank and stayed in tune out of the box....the LP Custom..looked nice, but wasn't nearly as well built and would not stay in tune.

Down side to both was that they weigh a ton. I am 5'6" and over 50 and at this point the weight doesn't work for me. I recently sold my SG2000 to a friend of mine. Now I only play Parker Flys which do pretty much anything I want them to, including the much vaunted "LP" thing.

[GuitarKidd]

How about a ESP Eclipse, or the LTD EC versions... Great looking Guitars, 24 Frets, great LP look...

Or even the New Carvin Single cuts look amazing, and I think they have better lower fret access...

[FrankieSixxxgun]

How about a ESP Eclipse, or the LTD EC versions... Great looking Guitars, 24 Frets, great LP look...

Or even the New Carvin Single cuts look amazing, and I think they have better lower fret access...

But do they have the tone? I see a lot of those guitars sporting EMG pickups.

[DGDGBD]

Anybody mount Strat pups into an LP?

Blasphemy! :mobSurely (Shirley?) you jest.














(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Tone_Terrific]

[QUOTE=dave r.;4651955]Blasphemy! :mobSurely (Shirley?) you jest.

and stop calling me Shirley!!

Consider, the sustain and smooth tonal richness of the LP construction with the clarity and percussive bite of Strat pups!! Is this not a match made in H......?:D

[FrankieSixxxgun]

Why use Strat single coils when you can run a P90? An underwound P90 sings :D

[waxnsteel]

Have you tried the Les Paul Reed Smith? (Singlecut 245)

[Tone_Terrific]

Why use Strat single coils when you can run a P90? An underwound P90 sings :D

But imagine a pair of white Strat pups hacked into the hb pup rings on a dark LP. PERFECT in its gruesomeness.:Devil

[v-verb]

from another little guy with little hands, trust me, you'll adjust. by the way, fatter necks sound better...

Yep, 5'7" and I love BIG necks! My hands are average sized at best. Big necks feel and sound better IMO.

As far as Les Pauls - my fave - get a high end Tokai or if you can swing it, a Gustavsson.

[matte]

2 insurmountable 'problems' with LP's:

-Short scale cramps upper frets together
-neck joint makes reaching upper frets even worse

non issues for me (and my 7 string lester). (http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/Uber_MattH2.mp3)


Anybody mount Strat pups into an LP?that is the general idea here.
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL898/463210/9398930/192471749.jpg
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL898/463210/9398930/192471735.jpg
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL898/463210/9398930/192471742.jpg

[darkmonohue]

Love hate thing here.

Love the sound. Thick, killer, seems to control and accent highs without strangling them.

Hate the playability (baseball neck). Unless the neck is in the thin range, I struggle with it. (Small hands, small guy.) Upper registers are a fight. Cleans can be iffy.

Why the hell can't I get a chunk of wood that sounds like it, without the drawbacks? My theory is that I need to just get one, play it for a year, and get used to it. Hell, Tommy Shaw aint nothin' but 4'10', and he can rip on one. But do I want to pay $3k for one just to do that?

Oh sh$t...probably.

EP

Don't think that a year with an LP will result in your getting "used to it." I owned an LP for more than a year, and grew more and more aggravated with the egregious flaws in its design to the point that I ended up selling it. The weight and the fragile headstock I suppose contribute to the tone, so one has to live with them, but you can't convince me that the lousy upper fret access, or the Sadistic way that the upper bout cuts into your forearm are necessary features. I've been looking and looking for something that combines the comfort of a Strat with the tone of an LP. If you find it, let me know. The closest I've experienced so far is a McNaught--even more expensive than a Gibson, but much better made. The Anderson Cobra intrigues me--I haven't had the chance to play one, but it's a 24.75" guitar, with dual humbuckers, by one of the preeminent builders of the day. Bolt-neck rather than set, but I'm wondering whether it wouldn't get one awfully close to LP tone without the frustrating drawbacks of the LP design.

[Bluedawg]

Don't think that a year with an LP will result in your getting "used to it." I owned an LP for more than a year, and grew more and more aggravated with the egregious flaws in its design to the point that I ended up selling it. The weight and the fragile headstock I suppose contribute to the tone, so one has to live with them, but you can't convince me that the lousy upper fret access, or the Sadistic way that the upper bout cuts into your forearm are necessary features. I've been looking and looking for something that combines the comfort of a Strat with the tone of an LP. If you find it, let me know. The closest I've experienced so far is a McNaught--even more expensive than a Gibson, but much better made. The Anderson Cobra intrigues me--I haven't had the chance to play one, but it's a 24.75" guitar, with dual humbuckers, by one of the preeminent builders of the day. Bolt-neck rather than set, but I'm wondering whether it wouldn't get one awfully close to LP tone without the frustrating drawbacks of the LP design.

Upper fret access? You mean there's more notes up there? :D

The LP is a 1950s design.

Lots of folks have been trying to put a modern "improvements" on the LP without losing the magic, even Gibson has tried to do it. Wether anyone really pulls it off is a matter of opinion.

For me there's more music in the first 15 frets than I'll be ever to play and my big fat fingers don't do well in the upper registers even on a nicely designed guitar.

To be honest, though, I did pick up a Collings City Limits Deluxe last year that has the best sounding upper fret tones of any LP style guitar that I've ever tried. It certainly delivers better tone than my "real" LPs in the upper frets and the access up there is OK by me on the CL.

:banana

[oscar100]

get a thorn SC:crazyguy

[FrankieSixxxgun]

But imagine a pair of white Strat pups hacked into the hb pup rings on a dark LP. PERFECT in its gruesomeness.:Devil

My father is a die-hard Fender Strat player from long before I was even around. He has this dead wood Silver Les Paul that he's been DYING to stick some Strat single coils in. I think it'll look bad ass, but I'm the kinda guy who likes the guitar to look like nothing was done to it.

[Leonc]

Don't think that a year with an LP will result in your getting "used to it." I owned an LP for more than a year, and grew more and more aggravated with the egregious flaws in its design to the point that I ended up selling it. The weight and the fragile headstock I suppose contribute to the tone, so one has to live with them, but you can't convince me that the lousy upper fret access, or the Sadistic way that the upper bout cuts into your forearm are necessary features. I've been looking and looking for something that combines the comfort of a Strat with the tone of an LP. If you find it, let me know. The closest I've experienced so far is a McNaught--even more expensive than a Gibson, but much better made. The Anderson Cobra intrigues me--I haven't had the chance to play one, but it's a 24.75" guitar, with dual humbuckers, by one of the preeminent builders of the day. Bolt-neck rather than set, but I'm wondering whether it wouldn't get one awfully close to LP tone without the frustrating drawbacks of the LP design.

I've had two Cobras and they are indeed great guitars and they do indeed address your concerns. Would the Cobra replace a Les Paul? Not to me. When I want what a Les Paul does, I use a Les Paul. I guess the "flaws" don't bother me enough.

[Jagsound]

I've had two Cobras and they are indeed great guitars and they do indeed address your concerns. Would the Cobra replace a Les Paul? Not to me. When I want what a Les Paul does, I use a Les Paul. I guess the "flaws" don't bother me enough.

A Les Paul is a good example of something that sounds good and plays well despite its flaws, or even because of them maybe. Personally I find them the easiest guitars to play, so I prefer them over all others, but not exclusively.

[bek]

I never thought I'd say this (and it was just a 5-minute sample), but I played a BC Rich Mockingbird into a Mesa .22+ and I was really surprised at how comfortable it was and how great it sounded. I didn't have any time to get acquainted with it, but it's passive and volume/volume/tone, so it's Hamer-ish. Come to think of it, my Hamer Studio with Manlius and Plummer pickups sounds pretty LP-ish, too.