melodic minor

[spaceboy]

hey. there's always a lot of talk on here about the melodic minor scale, but the way I learnt it, the Melodic Minor is different ascending to descending - natural minor with a sharpened 6th and 7th up, then just natural minor down. so how can this be implimented on the guitar, or in any way other than just using it as a scale...?

cheers!

[jzucker]

Originally posted by spaceboy
hey. there's always a lot of talk on here about the melodic minor scale, but the way I learnt it, the Melodic Minor is different ascending to descending - natural minor with a sharpened 6th and 7th up, then just natural minor down. so how can this be implimented on the guitar, or in any way other than just using it as a scale...?

cheers!

Forget about that ascending/descending classical thing. The scale you want is 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7. It's sometimes referred to as Melodic minor ascending.

[vladorg]

Well,for a start you can try harmonizing each degree of the melodic minor with a seventh chord-this way each of the modes derived from the melodic minor will sound good played over the corresponding seventh chord.And this is only the beginning...there are many,many useful sounds in the melodic minor.

Vlad

[lhallam]

What I often do when taught a new mode/scale is find a use for it. For example while screwing around with locrian, I came up with a locrian melody over a Bdim m7 (aka 1/2 diminished) to E7 progression.

If you do what vladorg suggests and then jam over it, you will come up with your own ideas.

The reason why the classical masters came up with the #7 in a minor scale is so the V chord will be major which resolves better to i than a minor v.

ex. in A minor (no sharps or flats) the natural v chord would be E minor - e-g-b. Unless you're Santana it doesn't pull well back to the i so they made the V chord E-G#-B.

So now we've got a harmonic minor scale.

Well screw it, let's make the iv chord major as well for those plagal cadences (subdominant to tonic A-A-A-MEN) so they sharped the 6th. So in the key of A minor you have a major IV - D-F#-A.

Now you've got the melodic minor scale

I don't recall why they changed it for the descending. It probably has to do with it's pull toward the i.

[Mark C]

I don't think of it as a changing when it descends. It was already a minor scale to begin with, so the change is ascending, as per Lance's already excellent description. As Jack put it, jazzers don't use this scale like classical musicians. Try playing it a half step higher than a V7 chord in a ii-V7-I progression. (ie. Ab mel. minor over the G7 chord in a dm7-G7-CMaj7 progression) You will get some nice tension tones over the dominant chord.

Note to self - get off my own butt and practice some of these ideas myself!:D

[spaceboy]

excellent. thanks for explaining that - very helpful, as per usual ^_^

I'll have a look at implementing that in the ways suggested...

aha! SOS gets into melodic minor pretty quickly, so that'll help too. thanks people!

[Unburst]

spaceboy-The whole different ascending/descending thing was originally to make it easier to sing, doesn't apply to guitar so just think of it as a minor scale with a raised 6th and 7th

[fyler]

or a major scale with a b3rd

[Tom Gross]

Originally posted by fyler
or a major scale with a b3rd

...which is also a nice way to find familier fingerings. Just use your Major scale stuff and b the 3rd. Especially cool with those 3 note per string fingerings.

[fyler]

see the second exercise in SOS for exactly that!

[spaceboy]

so, is there any point to the melodic minor in and of itself? or is it just for it's various modes and derivetives? i mean, on it's on it sounds a bit useless... very disjointed, just like playing part of a minor scale then playing part of a major scale. maybe that's why the classical honchos changed it for descending... or maybe I just haven't found the correct use for it yet. oh well, off experimenting I shall go.

cheers!

[jzucker]

Every scale is useless until you turn it into music. There is nothing that makes melodic minor any different than any other scale in that regard.

[Lucidology]

Every scale is useless until you turn it into music. There is nothing that makes melodic minor any different than any other scale in that regard.

beautifully said Jack ....

[Swain]

Try this when the V Chord comes up:

Just take your IV and V chords, and play m7b5 arpeggios from the same Roots.

EX: Over D7, play Cm7b5 and Dm7b5 Arps.

I find these 2 Arps. allow for some nice, angular Lines. Also, they are very easy to visualize.

This will give the effect of playing Mel. Min. 1/2 Step above a V Chord. And that will create a strong "Pull" back to the I Chord.

Very hip usage, e.g. 1/2 Step above a V Chord. Dig it.

[rotren]

The Melodic Minor scale is soooo useful! It's my favorite scale, together with the diminished scale. Study it, and see what it can do. You can derive so many beautiful chords from it too.

By the way, everyone should get the jazz chord book that Scott Henderson wrote. It's really worth looking at. This book - http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/a/item.html?id=75945&item=2966456
Not really a book, it's a chord reference helping tool thingy... :) but it's useful.

[henry_the_horse]

hey. there's always a lot of talk on here about the melodic minor scale, but the way I learnt it, the Melodic Minor is different ascending to descending - natural minor with a sharpened 6th and 7th up, then just natural minor down. so how can this be implimented on the guitar, or in any way other than just using it as a scale...?

cheers!

It's because the melodic minor scale relate to two different minor scales for jazz vs. academic music. What jazz theory defines as melodic minor scale is called bachian minor scale in academic music theory (ascending melodic minor in English). In Argentina, France, Spain and Germany conservatories we learn 4 minor scales: ancient minor (Engl: natural minor), harmonic minor, melodic minor and bachian minor. (http://www.lanotaonline.com/escalas_menores.htm)

It's called bachian because of its often use by J.S. Bach in his Chorals. When writting vocal counterpoint J.S. Bach had two voices moving simultaneously in contrary motion (upwards and downwards respectively) use the ascending melodic minor scale in either direction, because if they did use different scales (natural minor and ascending melodic minor) they would clash creating false harmonic relationships.

Different acending and descending spellings for scales is not uncommon outside the Western European (and in extension US) music tradition. In Hindustani and Carnatic classical music scales usually imply different aroha (ascending) and avaroha (descending) spellings.

The idea behind the melodic minor (ascending) is that the harmonic minor augmented 2nd between the VI and VII degrees was difficult for vocal style, so the VI degree was raised as well if the melody was moving in upward direction.

Regards