Are the Epiphone Korina guitars....

[Randy]

like the '58 V and Explorer reissues solid korina or just a veneer? If it's a veneer, any idea on what the underlying wood is?

[HRydarcik]

From what I've heard they're not korina at all.

[bluegrif]

My understanding (as of the late 90s, when I had one) is they are korina, but they're made up of a number of smaller pieces with a korina veneer. Guitar-sized korina blanks (for the usual two-piece body) are pretty expensive. Smaller bits and pieces are relatively cheap. So they glue these smaller pieces of wood together and they're able to produce an inexpensive Korina guitar. The necks have always been maple AFAIK.

[SGNick]

Veneer, +mahogany like body

[Bluestones]

I had a 98 SG. Veneer top and back with a mystery core wood. After scrapping out places like the control cavity I could only really say what wood it was not rather than exactly what it was. It wasn't anything like Korina, Mahog, Ash,etc. The neck was maple.

[shuie]

Definitely veneer. Maybe over poplar.

[Walter Broes]

My Epi "Korina" Vee is bendy rubberwood with a mysterywood powder core. Even after replacing the bridge, nut, and tuners, it won't stay in tune for a whole song, and you have to be careful with your left hand while playing, or you get major Bigsby effects.

[Bluzboy66]

The Epi Korina V and Explorer are true Korina veneer-over-Korina core construction. The veneer covers smaller, joined pieces of genuine Korina, not mahogany or 'mystery wood'. The neck is maple with rosewood board.

Fact is, Korina is a very unstable wood, and large, luthier-quality blanks are few and far between, and can be quite expensive, whereas, smaller pieces are much easier to find, and cheaper to purchase. Epi's multi-piece construction makes for a very solid guitar.

I had a '98 Epi Korina V, and I pretty much disected it to see what it was made of. It's legit Korina. They can be made to play great, sound great, and stay in tune, but you may need to have some things handled by a good tech. Professional set-up is everything. My V was an awesome guitar, and stayed in tune just fine.

Mike

[AS193]

Korina is a name made up by Gibson for some other African wood. Possibly Linden, or something like that.

[SGNick]

Korina is a name made up by Gibson for some other African wood. Possibly Linden, or something like that.

Limba

[StJimmy]

OK, so far we've got....
(1) not Korina at all
(2) Korina over Korina pieces
(3) Korina over "mahogany-like" wood
(4) korina over poplar
(5) Korina over mystery wood but definitely not Korina, Mahogany, ash
(6) rubberwood with mysterywood powder core

I have seen this question asked for a few years, always with the same diverse group of answers. I am inclined to saw mine in half and take it to a wood specialist and document it with photos.



Nah, that'd be crazy.

[AS193]

Limba
Thanks, I just looked it up, and was about to edit my post.

[RockStarNick]

Since when was Korina considered unstable? Warmoth offeres Korina necks, and black korina bodies, regularly.

[KBR]

I am making a Korina (black Limba) tele that is awesome, Thanks, Jaydawg...I would post pix, but don't know hjow, anyone want to post it for me, here?
email me
kennyblueray@comcast.net

I can't email pix thru PM

[Carbohydrates]

Since when was Korina considered unstable? Warmoth offeres Korina necks, and black korina bodies, regularly.
Korina is stable, but I think we've well established that these guitars are not korina.

[Michael T]

I had the pickups out of one and the wood under them didnt look like Korina/Limba to me.

[Tommy Tourbus]

it was my understanding that what they could legally call 'korina' had a wide interpretation

[Bluzboy66]

Since when was Korina considered unstable? Warmoth offeres Korina necks, and black korina bodies, regularly.

RockStar,

Yes, and you'll also note that Warmoth's Korina necks and bodies are among their most expensive, correct? You'll also notice that they don't offer Korina body 'blanks', correct?

Korina is notoriously unstable, when talking wood in general. It has a tendancy to twist and check/split heavily during the drying process, making full-size body blanks harder to come by. Hence, you'll pay more $$ for a decent piece of A-grade Korina, ESPECIALLY in body blank sizes. Narrower pieces, such as neck billets are more plentiful since large, dried, B-stock pieces of Korina can be cut down into smaller neck billets. Planing and jointing these smaller pieces removes any twist from the billet. While the checking is tough to combat, much of the twisting can be controlled by stock rotation during the drying process, along with strategic placement of the stickers (the thin wood sticks that are placed between wood planks to allow air to circulate during the drying process).

So, all said and done, working Korina down into body blanks and neck billets is more labor intensive and time consuming than the more stable, and more plentiful mahogany.

It is known that Paul Reed Smith gets first choice on stock from most of the domestic wood suppliers, and while his stash of Korina is quite impressive (I've seen it in person), his mahogany stock FAR outweighs his Korina. A side note - if Gibson had PRS's primo Korina stash, you'd be seeing more C.S. '58 reissue V's. ;) ........of course, they'd probably be priced at $10k each, or higher.

Mike

[6stringgrind]

All the Reverend guitars are now made with Korina and have been for some time, and they're still very affordable.

[Bluzboy66]

it was my understanding that what they could legally call 'korina' had a wide interpretation

There are two common types of 'Korina' - black, and white Limba. Gibson and Hamer are known to use the white variety. Epiphone could very well be using bits and pieces of each. I can see that this conversation will go on forever........we should just hop on over to a woodworking forum........

Mike

[Bluzboy66]

All the Reverend guitars are now made with Korina and have been for some time, and they're still very affordable.

I love Reverend guitars.....especially since seeing Iggy and The Stooges last year. Ron's guitar sounded great.

The new Reverend guitars are imported from Korea. Therefore, there are MANY reasons why Reverend can offer Korina. Also, only the necks are 1-piece Korina, while the bodies are jointed, multi-piece, correct?.....see my previous post. I don't have one in-hand, but that's what I understand to be true.

Interesting.....this is from Reverend's site.......

"Do the new guitars sound like the discontinued USA guitars?
The new guitars use the same Reverend pickups and have the lively, responsive Reverend tone. The discontinued USA composite body produces less midrange and more lows and highs. The wood construction of the new bodies produce a more traditional tone with more midrange focus and clarity, and a rounder, warmer treble response.
Is the Bolt-On Series neck the same as the USA neck?
The overall specs and legendary feel are the same. The Bolt-On neck is just slightly thicker front to back compared to the USA necks.
What's the difference between the current korina guitars and the older mahogany/spruce guitars? Why the change?
We changed to korina in September, 2007. Everything above serial number 07468 is korina.

We changed to korina for more consistent guitar weight. Korina is similar to mahogany, but has a narrower weight range and is very resonant. If you compare mahogany and korina versions of the SAME WEIGHT (with the same gauge and brand of new strings), the tone difference is negligible. This holds true for EVERY model we offer. The guitars are now more consistent, and still have the same great tone.
Korina is actually African Limba. It was dubbed "Korina" by Gibson and used on the original late 50's Flying V and Explorer. It is highly regarded for it's tonal qualities, and usually commands a premium upgrade price with custom guitar builders. Because our factory buys korina in large quantities, we have not raised the guitar prices."


Mike

[Bluzboy66]

Korina is stable, but I think we've well established that these guitars are not korina.

?? Wow, that was pretty sideways......and uninformed.......

Mike

[wingwalker]

First...Korina is simply a finish that was applied to guitars in the 50's made from Limba wood...

Now, Limba wood is PLENTY stable. I have a 1982 Moderne with a limba body and neck and it's easily more stable than my 2005 R8 LP and as stable as all the maple neck Fender guitars I own.

As for the Epi guitars, not Limba at all...bleached mahogany or poplar. They look cool but sound little like a real V or Explorer.

[Nickguitar]

I heard about "unstable" korina too...But i think that this apply for "young" wood, maybe it takes more time to get dry or when it has more than standard moisture % it's unstable comparing to other wood...Just a thought..:dunno
But when the wood is realy dry and "old" it doesn't matter any more...

[AS193]

Shrinkage from green to oven dry; Radial/Tangetial difference
Limba- radial 4.5% tangetial 6.2% 1.4
Mahogany(true)- radial 3% tangetial 4.1% 1.4
Mahogany African- radial 2.5% tangetial 4.5% 1.8

Source- U.S. Forest Products Laboratory

[Bluzboy66]

First...Korina is simply a finish that was applied to guitars in the 50's made from Limba wood...

Now, Limba wood is PLENTY stable. I have a 1982 Moderne with a limba body and neck and it's easily more stable than my 2005 R8 LP and as stable as all the maple neck Fender guitars I own.

As for the Epi guitars, not Limba at all...bleached mahogany or poplar. They look cool but sound little like a real V or Explorer.

You misunderstood what we're referring to as 'stable'. We're not referring to guitars that have been constructed of the wood, we're referring to the drying of the raw wood, and the resulting billets that are available from an average plank of Korina. And, 'Korina' is the nickname for limba wood, not a finish. Although some have used the name incorrectly when referring to a finish......Ibanez comes to mind. I also had an old late 70's/early 80's Aria Explorer copy that was finished in a 'Korina appearing' finish, that was actually ambered poly over an ash body.

Mike

[Bluzboy66]

Shrinkage from green to oven dry; Radial/Tangetial difference
Limba- radial 4.5% tangetial 6.2% 1.4
Mahogany(true)- radial 3% tangetial 4.1% 1.4
Mahogany African- radial 2.5% tangetial 4.5% 1.8

Source- U.S. Forest Products Laboratory

Thank you for the info......that pretty much tells the story right there. A lot can happen to a piece of wood that's shrinking 4.5% radially. And with that, I'll kindly bow out of this discussion.

Mike

[simon_62]

IIRC, theyre korina veneer over an agathis core, some of the ones ive seen recently seem to have the colouration and wood grain defects of poplar though so may have changed.

[69strat]

Could someone post a pic of the grain.... I have a tele that I love and I'm told its Korina...

[PA Woody]

I have no experience with the Epi Korina Vees and Explorers, but I do have a 2005 Epi LP Standard Plaintop. I bought it after "researching" it online. Everything I could find said it was a solid maple cap on a solid mahogany back(Gibson/Epi's website, retailers' ads, many forums). Even Gibson/Epi Customer Service told me so(more than once!). I kept badgering them, rewording my questions until they FINALLY admitted, the maple and mahogany are just veneers and the rest is "WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF MANUFACTURE". If you want the real woods that made the guitar famous...you won't get it in an Asian Epi.
Having said that, my Epi LP is a nice sounding, nice playing guitar. I do enjoy playing it. But I must say, the whole experince has left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not likely to trust anything i hear from any Epi or Gibson company reps or retailers without 100% proof. Even then I'ld be leery.
To answer the OP's question, "Are the Epiphone Korina guitars like the '58 V and Explorer reissues solid korina or just a veneer?"
I don't know for certain, but based on my experience with Epi, very doubtful.

[outtahear]

First...Korina is simply a finish that was applied to guitars in the 50's made from Limba wood...


No. Korina was a name ((Gibson copyright??) for African Limba.
They weren't finished in clear-was an almost T.V. finish (Translucent color over unfilled grain, grain-fill, clear).:)

[Lex Luthier]

Look at the limba veneer on those guitars, it's porus (like limba should be). Pull a pickup out and look at the core wood, it is not porus. That should be a big tip off that the core isn't limba.

[Randy]

Well, I don't know what it tells us, but here's a picture of my Korina Hamer standard from a run of 100 they did in '95. Notice the dark areas in the grain;


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RufusLeaking/Korina1.jpg


Here's a picture of an Epi explorer currently on Ebay. The grain is much straighter and clearer as seen here;

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RufusLeaking/67032321.jpg


Yet a close up of the wood around the pickup selector shows typical Korina porosity;

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RufusLeaking/67032291.jpg


Interestingly, this is a current manufactured Hamer Korina explorer;



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/RufusLeaking/856123-21.jpg

[WordMan]

RockStar,

Yes, and you'll also note that Warmoth's Korina necks and bodies are among their most expensive, correct? You'll also notice that they don't offer Korina body 'blanks', correct?

Korina is notoriously unstable, when talking wood in general. It has a tendancy to twist and check/split heavily during the drying process, making full-size body blanks harder to come by. Hence, you'll pay more $$ for a decent piece of A-grade Korina, ESPECIALLY in body blank sizes. Narrower pieces, such as neck billets are more plentiful since large, dried, B-stock pieces of Korina can be cut down into smaller neck billets. Planing and jointing these smaller pieces removes any twist from the billet. While the checking is tough to combat, much of the twisting can be controlled by stock rotation during the drying process, along with strategic placement of the stickers (the thin wood sticks that are placed between wood planks to allow air to circulate during the drying process).

So, all said and done, working Korina down into body blanks and neck billets is more labor intensive and time consuming than the more stable, and more plentiful mahogany.

It is known that Paul Reed Smith gets first choice on stock from most of the domestic wood suppliers, and while his stash of Korina is quite impressive (I've seen it in person), his mahogany stock FAR outweighs his Korina. A side note - if Gibson had PRS's primo Korina stash, you'd be seeing more C.S. '58 reissue V's. ;) ........of course, they'd probably be priced at $10k each, or higher.

Mike

Well, this has me jazzed - as I shared in a thread a few days ago, I just scored a 1-piece Korina Tele body that weighs 3 lbs! I couldn't find a price quote for what this might cost if bought straight-up from a USACG (they state "there'd be an upcharge") or Warmoth (they currently aren't making White Korina bodies), so it was unclear what a reasonable price might be for such a piece of Unobtainium(tm). So I guessed - I got it for just over $300, which is probably a bit too high - but I don't care!! I am pairing it with a Warmoth Conversion (Gibson-scaled) maple neck with a gorgeous Brazilian fingerboard. Yay.

Sorry for the hijack - just in GAS/guitar building mode...

[whitehall]

The epiphones have always been monkeywood with some type of veneer over them. Tokai has always done the same thing with their MIK explorers and V . Copies. Even in Korea you could not make a guitar out of real Korina (African Limba Wood ) to sell at that price point. At least the Tokai people call theirs Korena.

[zombiwoof]

Just a related note - Gibson used to make guitars with a core they called "Chromyte", which turns out to actually be Balsa wood. They just love those clever names!.

Al

[darth_vader]

My Epi '58 V is certainly light enough to be Korina, and although it's definitely veneered on the front and back, the grain of the actual body wood looks porous enough to be Korina as well. I did have the pickguard off when I changed pickups, but I can't remember what the grain looked like in there.

At the end of the day, it's an Epiphone, you buy it because it a) feels good in your hands and b) has a sound you like. It's never going to appreciate in value, even if it was solid Korina.