pickups, caps or wood, or all 3

[Tompski]

I recently had a beautiful strat made for me by Custom Usa, the body is nitro finished Alder, I put a set of Amalfitano sp strat pups in it, and a large orange drop cap from Callaham (i don't recall the value but it's not .47).
Now my issue is that although the guitar sounds great it's a little bitey and aggressive, I wanted to get a very lushious Hendrix style tone, it has a little of that but is not the tone I have in mind so my questions are
1. is Alder an aggressive tone wood

2. if the cap is not the recomended.47 for strats could that be giving the tone and output a bit too much welly?

3. could it be the Amalfitanos are too hot for that type of wood

perhaps it's all these things combined

[Rosewood]

Alder is not an "aggressive" wood type, very smooth sounding. I assume you mean .047 for the cap value, you could use anything between .02 to .1. The .1 would be your best value if it's too bright and also if the bridge pu is not connected to the tone control, do so. The Amalfitanos pu's I'm not familiar with.

[Tompski]

rosewood,
do you think different brands or value caps colour the tone of the guitar, even with volume and tone set to full?

[Rosewood]

The value of the cap does, I'm not sold on the brand making a difference.

[msgdsrf]

How about strings too?

Roll back your vol and tone knobs a bit.

Try lowering your pickups and use pure nickel strings, also the speakers got alot to do with the aggresiveness. You didn't mention what your amp set up is.

[scottywompas]

If the guitar is new it should mellow with playing. The laquer needs to dry out a little more and the wood needs to resonate a little.

It'll get there I'm sure.

Scott

[Tompski]

I took the front off the strat last night and removed the orange drop cap and soldered in two lengths of cloth covered wire and then attached crocodile clips to each of them, I then put the front back with these new and rather funky attachments hanging out of the guitar! Can you see where this is going?....
Right, I then started with the Orange drop that was in there already and put it between the clips ...... didn't like it
Then I swapped it for my old .047 Hovland ......... sounded better but nothing special.....then tried it the other way round.......much much better
Then I tried the smaller orange drop.047 and tried it both ways round and this one was even better a much more strat like tone , really chewy and glassy!
So it would seem that not only do all these caps colour your sound differently they each sound better one way round in particular ,so they have polarity... no one ever mentioned that!
I have one of the RS .047s on it's way to me for the strat and a pair of the Luxe sprague bumblebee remakes for the v100(lp copy)
to my ears each cap sounded different even if it was the same value as the next one, they all made the guitar sound and feel different!

[outtahear]

I took the front off the strat last night and removed the orange drop cap and soldered in two lengths of cloth covered wire and then attached crocodile clips to each of them, I then put the front back with these new and rather funky attachments hanging out of the guitar! Can you see where this is going?....
Right, I then started with the Orange drop that was in there already and put it between the clips ...... didn't like it
Then I swapped it for my old .047 Hovland ......... sounded better but nothing special.....then tried it the other way round.......much much better
Then I tried the smaller orange drop.047 and tried it both ways round and this one was even better a much more strat like tone , really chewy and glassy!
So it would seem that not only do all these caps colour your sound differently they each sound better one way round in particular ,so they have polarity... no one ever mentioned that!
I have one of the RS .047s on it's way to me for the strat and a pair of the Luxe sprague bumblebee remakes for the v100(lp copy)
to my ears each cap sounded different even if it was the same value as the next one, they all made the guitar sound and feel different!


Funny how there's no difference when you don't try.......

[Tompski]

Funny how there's no difference when you don't try.......


? Are you suggesting I have magic bean syndrome?

[Stratman76]

I took the front off the strat last night and removed the orange drop cap and soldered in two lengths of cloth covered wire and then attached crocodile clips to each of them, I then put the front back with these new and rather funky attachments hanging out of the guitar! Can you see where this is going?....
Right, I then started with the Orange drop that was in there already and put it between the clips ...... didn't like it
Then I swapped it for my old .047 Hovland ......... sounded better but nothing special.....then tried it the other way round.......much much better
Then I tried the smaller orange drop.047 and tried it both ways round and this one was even better a much more strat like tone , really chewy and glassy!
So it would seem that not only do all these caps colour your sound differently they each sound better one way round in particular ,so they have polarity... no one ever mentioned that!
I have one of the RS .047s on it's way to me for the strat and a pair of the Luxe sprague bumblebee remakes for the v100(lp copy)
to my ears each cap sounded different even if it was the same value as the next one, they all made the guitar sound and feel different!


I've never heard of cap direction/orientation making difference in tone. Hmmmmm.... Regarding the Orange Drop .047, which direction worked best?

[bmetelits]

Is this a hardtail or trem?
Is the body especially lightweight or more heavy?
What are the neck/fingerboard woods?

[12guitdown]

I took the front off the strat last night and removed the orange drop cap and soldered in two lengths of cloth covered wire and then attached crocodile clips to each of them, I then put the front back with these new and rather funky attachments hanging out of the guitar! Can you see where this is going?....
Right, I then started with the Orange drop that was in there already and put it between the clips ...... didn't like it
Then I swapped it for my old .047 Hovland ......... sounded better but nothing special.....then tried it the other way round.......much much better
Then I tried the smaller orange drop.047 and tried it both ways round and this one was even better a much more strat like tone , really chewy and glassy!
So it would seem that not only do all these caps colour your sound differently they each sound better one way round in particular ,so they have polarity... no one ever mentioned that!
I have one of the RS .047s on it's way to me for the strat and a pair of the Luxe sprague bumblebee remakes for the v100(lp copy)
to my ears each cap sounded different even if it was the same value as the next one, they all made the guitar sound and feel different!

Looks like a fun way to test. Me like. Me want to try.:knitting

[Tompski]

Is this a hardtail or trem?
Is the body especially lightweight or more heavy?
What are the neck/fingerboard woods?


It has a wilkinson blade style trem, and a light weight alder body /nitro finish, so a possibility that the trem adds a little metallic sound? the neck is quite thick birdseye maple with indian rosewood fretboard.

[Tompski]

I've never heard of cap direction/orientation making difference in tone. Hmmmmm.... Regarding the Orange Drop .047, which direction worked best?
the way I did it was run a black(hot) cable from the tone pot lug and a white from the surface of the pot so from my orientation with guitar in my lap white is left and black right I had the orange drop connected with the writing facing me, but whose to say they make them the same each time, I swear you'll hear the difference (unless you're tone deaf!)if you just do what I did , I have more caps to test this weekend , I will update

[RussB]

So if I change the tone cap in my Strat, will I sound like Hendrix too?

[Tompski]

So if I change the tone cap in my Strat, will I sound like Hendrix too?
yes! yes you will Russ probably even better!:moon

[merkaba22]

It has a wilkinson blade style trem, and a light weight alder body /nitro finish, so a possibility that the trem adds a little metallic sound? the neck is quite thick birdseye maple with indian rosewood fretboard.
My understanding is that there are lots of licensed Wilkinsons and many are made from pretty awful metal -- the quality and type of the metal (alloy) has a huge impact on the tone.

[bmetelits]

The lightweight alder tends to mellow the tone. Fat necks = big tone. I'm not familiar with your pickups. The pickups + Wilkinson trem may be the problem. Are the vol/tone pots 250k or 500k? If you have true single coils you'll probably be happier with 250k ohm pots. FWIW I use Fender 57/62 pickups.

[oxydon]

Hey dude, ceramic condensers have no polarity at all, and even if they had it could make NO DIFFERENCE since the current going through them is alternate, sounds like a placebo effects that happended to you, you only thought there was a difference, actually there was none!

[Tompski]

Hey dude, ceramic condensers have no polarity at all, and even if they had it could make NO DIFFERENCE since the current going through them is alternate, sounds like a placebo effects that happended to you, you only thought there was a difference, actually there was none!
Well to all the doubters I rehearsed with my band last night and demonstrated the different sounds with polaritys both ways and several seasoned musicians could hear the difference , and by the way the caps I'm talking about are not ceramic, they are Polypropylene and metal foil and if you look at ones such as the ones made by Hovland you will note that they have two wires, one coloured red and the other green, that is not for no reason or there own fun and I sppoke to hovland once and they told me there was polarity to these little suckers.so sorry no placebo happening here just proper research and as I said before there is a marked improvement to the feel and tone of a now great guitar.

[Tompski]

My understanding is that there are lots of licensed Wilkinsons and many are made from pretty awful metal -- the quality and type of the metal (alloy) has a huge impact on the tone.
it's a top notch gotoh wilkinson trem, but I now have the beast sounding how I want it, it's a beauty!

[polifemo]

3. could it be the Amalfitanos are too hot


I don´t know if I would call the Amalfitanos "hot" but they do have a meaty tone!
Personally I like the complexity and fullness of the tone (probably the best Strat PUs that I´ve heard) but if "glassy" is the key word, maybe you should try something else.

[Tompski]

I don´t know if I would call the Amalfitanos "hot" but they do have a meaty tone!
Personally I like the complexity and fullness of the tone (probably the best Strat PUs that I´ve heard) but if "glassy" is the key word, maybe you should try something else.
now I've lowered the pups and switched capacitor they do sound glassy, all is good now.

[outtahear]

? Are you suggesting I have magic bean syndrome?

Not at all...just the preponderance of people who are convinced that a "component is a component".
They tend to be the ones who haven't really experimented much (if at all...)

[Tompski]

Not at all...just the preponderance of people who are convinced that a "component is a component".
They tend to be the ones who haven't really experimented much (if at all...)
well I cant stop tinkering with the insides of all my guitars amps and pedals, and usually to my benefit!

[oxydon]

Tompski, i am starting to understand more now about what you did, the confusion came from the fact that 99.99% of guitars use ceramic condensers for tone, expecially whan you talked about the 47n value, this range is almost always ceramic (no polarity), .. but actually you fitted a chemical condeser in the circuit (of a higher value i guess), those condensers are actually polar and if the signal of you pickups is for some reason asymetrical then orientation does make a slight difference = you're right +1.
But try not to take matters personnaly we are just discussing ... ;)

[Tompski]

Tompski, i am starting to understand more now about what you did, the confusion came from the fact that 99.99% of guitars use ceramic condensers for tone, expecially whan you talked about the 47n value, this range is almost always ceramic (no polarity), .. but actually you fitted a chemical condeser in the circuit (of a higher value i guess), those condensers are actually polar and if the signal of you pickups is for some reason asymetrical then orientation does make a slight difference = you're right +1.
But try not to take matters personnaly we are just discussing ... ;)
true true
the value was .047:)

[Stratman76]

Tompski, i am starting to understand more now about what you did, the confusion came from the fact that 99.99% of guitars use ceramic condensers for tone, expecially whan you talked about the 47n value, this range is almost always ceramic (no polarity), .. but actually you fitted a chemical condeser in the circuit (of a higher value i guess), those condensers are actually polar and if the signal of you pickups is for some reason asymetrical then orientation does make a slight difference = you're right +1.
But try not to take matters personnaly we are just discussing ... ;)


Not to stir it up, but Tompski did describe one "directional" capacitor as an "orange drop from Callaham?"

[Tompski]

Not to stir it up, but Tompski did describe one "directional" capacitor as an "orange drop from Callaham?"
Oh I'm getting confused! The orange drop was supplied from a shop that supplies Callaham stuff , it may be one of his cryogenically treated bits but it is definately from Callaham.

[fumbler]

I switched from ceramic to paper/oil in my parts-strat and it made a pretty big difference to my ears.

Don't forget the effect of the cable! Hendrix himself used a cheap high-capacitance cable to tame his strats.

[oxydon]

Oh maybe Mr Hendrix just picked up the cable that was around ... people at that time didn't knew about these details as much as we do today! always keep that in mind!
Somebody has done a pretty good study using pspice, and told exactly how the capacitor and the cable affect the resonnance of the pickup and it's tone, i can't find the link right now, but i will find it for you.

[RussB]

Not at all...just the preponderance of people who are convinced that a "component is a component".
They tend to be the ones who haven't really experimented much (if at all...)


In my case, this not true. I have built, re-built and serviced quite a few amps. I have also tweeked every guitar I've owned, and a few others as well for over 20 years. I have tried, and listen to many combinations of caps, resitors, pots, transformers.

Dis-agreeing is OK by me, but tone caps (of equal value) have little to no effect in a passive guitar circuit. YMMV :)

[Tompski]

In my case, this not true. I have built, re-built and serviced quite a few amps. I have also tweeked every guitar I've owned, and a few others as well for over 20 years. I have tried, and listen to many combinations of caps, resitors, pots, transformers.

Dis-agreeing is OK by me, but tone caps (of equal value) have little to no effect in a passive guitar circuit. YMMV :)

I promise you that the callaham orange drop sounds and feels different to the RS, Hovland and the Audio Note caps and they are all .047, and they do all sound slightly different from each other, maybe it's the way they filter frequencies? I don't know but I trust my ears I have good ones.

[Chris Scott]

:munch

[outtahear]

In my case, this not true. I have built, re-built and serviced quite a few amps. I have also tweeked every guitar I've owned, and a few others as well for over 20 years. I have tried, and listen to many combinations of caps, resitors, pots, transformers.

Dis-agreeing is OK by me, but tone caps (of equal value) have little to no effect in a passive guitar circuit. YMMV :)


YMMV....indeed!(agreed...)
Especially if YCBD......








(Yo Components Be Diffint'....)
:)

[Tompski]

I don't know if anyone will read this as this thread is a little old now,but I have since found out why there is a difference in sound when you wire the capacitor the other way round, there is no polarity but the foil in this type of cap is coiled in one direction so if you reverse it it sounds difference as the sound travels the other way through the coil, same way that if you reverse a guitar lead you can hear a slight difference in tone as it is traveling the reverse way down the coil.