Princeton Reverb vs. Deluxe Reverb Tone Difference?

[fuzzface71]

Is there a difference in circuit, besides the speaker and wattage between these two amps? I had a DRRI and I swear that amp never sang like the way the Princeton would. Am I crazy? :NUTS

[doublee]

You just havnt gotten the DR loud enough yet, its alot louder than the Princeton so doesnt sound as good as the P until you get it to where.....the neighbors call the cops.

[phsyconoodler]

Yes,you are crazy.But no,really,the two amps are different circuits with the DR having a long tailed pair phase inverter,and the PR a cathodyne phase inverter.The latter being sweeter sounding.The DR has more output power but lacks the sweetness of tone that the PR has gobs of.
Both amps are great sounding to be sure,but the PR gets my nod every time in terms of pure sweet tone.
The PR is about 12 watts vs 22 watts for the DR.
Build a princeton reverb with a 12" speaker or a more efficient 10" speaker and they are Deluxe killers.
Of course that doesn't mean you can plug into any princeton and get that experience.Some are tired,have old worn out tubes and speakers and have been rode hard and put up wet.
The reiisue kind of sounds like a worn down original.It just doesn't have the vibe stock.Put some NOS tubes in and a better speaker and who knows?

[fuzzface71]

Yes,you are crazy.But no,really,the two amps are different circuits with the DR having a long tailed pair phase inverter,and the PR a cathodyne phase inverter.The latter being sweeter sounding.The DR has more output power but lacks the sweetness of tone that the PR has gobs of.
Both amps are great sounding to be sure,but the PR gets my nod every time in terms of pure sweet tone.
The PR is about 12 watts vs 22 watts for the DR.
Build a princeton reverb with a 12" speaker or a more efficient 10" speaker and they are Deluxe killers.
Of course that doesn't mean you can plug into any princeton and get that experience.Some are tired,have old worn out tubes and speakers and have been rode hard and put up wet.
The reiisue kind of sounds like a worn down original.It just doesn't have the vibe stock.Put some NOS tubes in and a better speaker and who knows?

I guess that makes sense. I sold the DRRI, it was great, but it didn't do much for me. My new Princeton is a keeper for sure even stock it sounded sweet!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/fuzzface71/IMG_0861.jpg

[fiddler]

Define a "sweet" tone...please

[phsyconoodler]

A strat into a Princeton Reverb.
Play your amp and then play the PR.'Nuff said.

[Axekisser]

My '68-'69 Drip-edge is a killer! All capped up with a Bugleboy in V1 and a Mullard recto (original) All tubes are lightly used and original except the Tung-Sol RI 6V6s that KCA sold me. Got a Weber 10F150T in it and I cream my pants when playing that thing!

Even my non-verb Princeton from the early 70's has a sweet tone.

Still would like to get a DR just because!

[JamesT]

You know I had bought a BF Vibrolux Reverb and read that and so I bought a BFDR. So now I suppose I have to get a BFPR so I will. Thanks!!!

[pula58]

I have a 64 Princeton reverb with 12" speaker baffle, "stokes" mod and "Paul C "mod and a Swamp thang speaker. Fat fat tone, and very loud. The Princeton reverb is a all-time classic wonderful amplifier...and mine is very loud...I might try it tomorrow night at a blues jam I typically use a Vibrolux at and see how it goes...

Even before I had the mods done the amp was great.

I find DR's way too brite, couldn't even consider using one unless the brite cap was eliminated!


Paul

[Puckman]

We talking original Princeton or the current reissue here? Just so I'm clear.

[phsyconoodler]

Read the posts.No one mentioned a reissue.

[merkaba22]

I have a 64 Princeton reverb with 12" speaker baffle, "stokes" mod and "Paul C "mod and a Swamp thang speaker. Fat fat tone, and very loud. The Princeton reverb is a all-time classic wonderful amplifier...and mine is very loud...I might try it tomorrow night at a blues jam I typically use a Vibrolux at and see hot it goes...

Even before I had the mods done the amp was great.

I find DR's way too brite, couldn't even consider using one unless the brite cap was eliminated!


Paul

How did it show up at that blues jam?

[fuzzface71]

We talking original Princeton or the current reissue here? Just so I'm clear.

Sorry. Mine is a reissue.

[Jamar]

thank God for this thread!

:bow

it confirms a tonal epiphany I had over this weekend!

Nearly a year ago, I traded a BFPR clone for a real '66 BFDR. Upon 1st listen I was so impressed with BFDR's bottom end and punchy tone that I forsook the BFPR clone for the chance to own a piece of actual BF Fender history. Fast forward 8 months, I'm wanting to sell my fav. pedals, I can't find the right guitar for the amp, things just don't sound as sweet as they used to. I'm just not happy with my electric sound.

I borrow the same BFPR clone for a recording project. I have both amps side by side. I'm running them both through the stereo outs of a DL-4 playing with stereo delays. I took some time to AB the two, and I'll be damned if the Princeton Reverb clone didn't sound 10x better to me. Two hours later I was still noodling in tonal ecstasy with my long lost friend, the PR clone, while the 66 Deluxe Reverbs volume was on 0.

...the two amps are different circuits with the DR having a long tailed pair phase inverter,and the PR a cathodyne phase inverter.The latter being sweeter sounding.The DR has more output power but lacks the sweetness of tone that the PR has gobs of.
Both amps are great sounding to be sure,but the PR gets my nod every time in terms of pure sweet tone.
The PR is about 12 watts vs 22 watts for the DR.
Build a princeton reverb with a 12" speaker or a more efficient 10" speaker and they are Deluxe killers....

I completely agree with physconoodler's above comment!

Why didn't someone tell me that the Princeton Reverb was the sweet sounding blacksheep of the Blackface family a long time ago?!?! Cathodyne phase inverter...HA!

Define a "sweet" tone...please

Tonal assessment in IMHO:

My Deluxe Reverb sounds like a classic "blackface" sound. Which I thought I would like, "blackface this, blackface that". (all the talk is bullshit, let your ears tell you what you like!) My tonal epiphany was that I don't really like the classic "blackface" sound! To my ear, it's kind of unpleasantly harsh when overdriven. It's too bright and too boomy for my tastes. The EQ spans all over the spectrum in the low and high end, but never sounds full enough for me in the midrange. All that I would call not "sweet".

The Princeton Reverb Clone I'm borrowing sounds smooth and sweet when overdriven and when clean. The EQ seems very focused in the mids, where I think it should be for electric guitar. It sounds much better in a mix with a bass, making for a very carved combined sound (aka the guitar not all over the basses EQ spectrum and vice versa). All in all, the BFPR equals everything I like!

My good friend has agreed to trade me back the Princeton Reverb clone for the Deluxe Reverb. To think, I was ready to start selling and trading good gear because of an amp tone misdiagnosis. Unnecessary G.A.S. and frustration narrowly/thankfully avoided!

[sralquist]

I have a 67' PR and a 72' DR ... so here is my 2 cents
I tried using the PR for jam sessions and gigs because it sounded so sweet .. but ultimately ended up needing the power of the the DR for gigs and jams.
But IMO for recording the PR rules!

[Jamar]

I have a 67' PR and a 72' DR ... so here is my 2 cents
I tried using the PR for jam sessions and gigs because it sounded so sweet .. but ultimately ended up needing the power of the the DR for gigs and jams.
But IMO for recording the PR rules!

I could see this being a potential problem for some folks. I'm able to squeak by playing out with a Princeton Reverb. I don't like to play as loud as most people though...

[smolder]

I don't think that the princeton reverb totally rocks from a tone perspective is a secret. Prior to this economic bust... they going for very big bucks. In the downturn, I saw an early 70's model going to 700 on craigslist recently. Shoulda...

[Jamar]

you're right. its not exactly a secret that the Princeton Reverb is a tone machine, I just needed to hear and compare it to become a believer. BUT the cathodyne phase inverter perhaps being a key tone ingredient in the Princeton Reverb's circuit that's lacking in the BF Deluxe Reverb, was news to me. I was asking more of "why haven't I heard that before?"

[amplifiedtorock]

Speakers are key.

My 72 SFPR is currently loaded with a Tone Tubby 10" and is used by our singer/rhythm guitarist with her Tele.

I frigging love that amp. Any brightness issues are smoothed out with the TT. I didn't try many speakers, just got lucky on the first try! Bright amps LOVE Tone Tubby's!

[johneeeveee]

I personally love the "Brownface" Princeton with the 6G2 circuit the best.

I do miss the reverb a bit, but it's still my fave of the Princeton models.

[mbratch]

I much prefer the sound of my vintage 65 Deluxe Reverb with my Gibson ES-347 than my 73 Princeton Reverb.

[sralquist]

Speakers are key.

My 72 SFPR is currently loaded with a Tone Tubby 10" and is used by our singer/rhythm guitarist with her Tele.

I frigging love that amp. Any brightness issues are smoothed out with the TT. I didn't try many speakers, just got lucky on the first try! Bright amps LOVE Tone Tubby's!

+1 on the TT .. I have a 10" alnico TT my 67 PR and love it.

I really did try and squeak by using the PR for live jams because of that ridiculous tone .. but finally i gave into the fact that with a full band jammin' (the way we do)... the PR was not really able to punctuate they way i needed it to. I found myself with less and less headroom and therefore less and less of that sweet tone. I could see it working in a mellower setting, perhaps playing a small bar or the type of gig or music that levels need to be kept down.
Bottom line is it would be a very tough choice if someone said i could only keep one of the two greatest amps ever made! .. but thankfully i don't have to make that decision :D

[soldersucker]

Read the posts.No one mentioned a reissue.
Or why they both suck and "my bootiqe amp" is better than ethier:confused: Shit you guy's are slipping.......

[twangyt]

I just got a SFPR last week. I hadn't played with one ever and thought that they might be nice to check out. Bought one used, sight unseen.... opened it up outta the box to find out that it was an early '68. Plugged it up and played for a looooong time... this is THE amp for me right now. Reverb is better than my '67 twin, the vibrato is just killer. And the amp will smoke! I can see how it may not be loud enough for some, but what this thing may lack in volume... it makes up in tone. Best of all, this amp was TOTALLY stock and only set me back $399. :thud Good to know that there are still deals to be had out there... I am excited about this amp. period.

[soldersucker]

399 for a shipped 68 PR? great score!

[Jamar]

that is a great deal twangyt! congrats!