Metallica fans: finally, BASS on ...And Justice For All!!! [Archive]

Disco Scottie

10-06-2008, 07:35 PM

Only two songs, but what an amazing difference! Somebody took the isolated bass track (which is Jason's actual playing) from the "Rock Band" video game, and edited it to the original tunes:

...And Justice For All (http://www.killerchops.net/musicvideo.php?vid=eb467af71)

Blackened (http://www.killerchops.tv/musicvideo.php?vid=7c3bfc6a3)

Blackened (bass only snippet) (http://www.killerchops.tv/metallica/blackened-bass-only-video_5245f82a2.html)

For anyone who's ever defended the mix they put out in '88... check and mate. There's no comparison. It's like listening to a totally new performance. Lars needs to pull his head out of his ass, admit they screwed up, and remix/re-release the entire album.

xntrick

10-06-2008, 07:42 PM

i'll have to check this out with my earbuds...

ReddRanger

10-06-2008, 08:16 PM

Wow...it's so wierd to hear bass on there....

isfahani

10-06-2008, 08:35 PM

Beautiful. They should really remix the whole album...

ungarn

10-06-2008, 08:49 PM

Blackened definitely sounds cool...

gtrs

10-06-2008, 08:51 PM

WOW
That's WAY better than the album.
He's such a great musician, they really screwed up with that whole situation.
I think it needs to be mixed a little better with the rest of the band, but man it still kills the album version.

Lution

10-06-2008, 09:00 PM

man, I knew I wasn't just hearing things way back when AJFA hit. There was no bass to be heard!

This sounds very good!!!

freedom's door

10-06-2008, 10:22 PM

It would be nice if that album gets a proper remix someday.

guitarslinger21

10-06-2008, 10:29 PM

Reminds me of how David Elefson sounds on Megadeth albums.

COOL!!!!

guitbeef

10-06-2008, 11:37 PM

That is amazing, that's the way it should've sounded in the first place.

Here's Kirk Hammet dog-paddling to keep up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoMF2GgyKAA&feature=related

ecm1117

10-07-2008, 12:37 AM

There's a fan-made version of the whole album with added bass called "And Justice For Jason." It's actually well done, although unfortunately it's not Jason playing the bass lines. You can search for it online, it's floating around out there. It's the only version of the album I listen to now.

MBreinin

10-07-2008, 06:48 AM

It sounds much better, but the bass is now too heavy in the mix if you ask me. I don't know about you, but I don't want to hear bass mixed louder than guitar.

The Golden Boy

10-07-2008, 07:03 AM

It sounds goofy- hearing it mixed so shitty for the past 20 years...

clothwiring

10-07-2008, 07:23 AM

I always loved the music...but hated the production. They should remix it! I'd buy it then.

pickaguitar

10-07-2008, 07:26 AM

I think I was like 12 or 13 the last time I listened to this album.
Was there no bass on it?

bocaboy

10-07-2008, 08:08 AM

The Golden Boy

10-07-2008, 09:05 AM

I think I was like 12 or 13 the last time I listened to this album.
Was there no bass on it?
Virtually none.

metz420

10-07-2008, 11:46 AM

What a difference. It's amazing to me that they would release the AJFA with no bass, i.e - an inferior product IMHO, out of spite. Seems a little short sided. Just goes to show you that even hardcore metal dudes can act like little bitches some times.

funkycam

10-07-2008, 11:54 AM

Obviously this mix has the bass totally cranked so you can hear what he is doing.

Part of the problem is that bass tone has nothing to make it cut... even mixed this hot it's still not defined enough.
To my ear it would need more mid growl & be hotter in the mix to be heard correctly imo esp as he is doubling everything.

I think a good remix would be very well received by fans

ReddRanger

10-07-2008, 11:56 AM

It sounds much better, but the bass is now too heavy in the mix if you ask me. I don't know about you, but I don't want to hear bass mixed louder than guitar.

+1! It was cool to hear the isolated bass line, but the mix posted here does not sound good. It sounds to me like someone playing bass along with the album.
Yeah, well considering they've had Jason completely mixed out for the past 20 years...I'm sure whoever did this exagerated the bass to really show Jason is there.

But if they were going to actually remix and re-release this album, I agree they would absolutely need to balance in the bass better.

AL30

10-07-2008, 11:59 AM

:eek: Whoa !!! That's a huge difference. I haven't heard that album in a lot of years and it's very noticeable even with my bad memory.

I think it's a little loud in the mix too but it sure is nice to hear it.

AL

Maction

10-07-2008, 12:10 PM

the bass is mixed really high on those. and since there's no low-end in the kick drum, it sticks out even more.

the band's explanation for the lack of bass on Justice was that with the new scooped-mids guitar sound (remember when that was new?) the rhythm guitar ate up all of the low end and there was no room for bass. there has been speculation that it was part of the hazing process for the new member, but that seems a little extreme, even for them.

that whole album needs a remix/remaster. then again, there are a lot of people who think that the new album needs one too:

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/crickets/2008/09/16/overcompression/

I doubt they'll ever officially release remixes. I can't see those guys ever admitting that they made a mistake.

CharAznable

10-07-2008, 12:25 PM

Knowing Metallica, if they ever rereleased And Justice with bass, they'd have Trujillo play over Jason's parts.

BIGGERSTAFF

10-07-2008, 12:59 PM

Reminds me of how David Elefson sounds on Megadeth albums.

COOL!!!!

Speaking of Dave- the Daves need to work out their issues, and work together.

CharAznable

10-07-2008, 01:53 PM

That "grieving through hate" quote on the link is priceless.

Sounds like something Dethklok would do.

We grieve.. through HATE!!!
We mix the bass down because nothing is blacker and more brutal than NOTHING!!!!

Lution

10-07-2008, 03:25 PM

Worse, James would probably insist on playing it himself.

or worse yet, Bob Rock would play the parts.

Fixxxer

10-07-2008, 03:30 PM

Wow...it's so wierd to hear bass on there....

I know, I about fell over. Remaster it and release it!

The inital release was great for what it was, we need this!

g-nem

10-07-2008, 03:32 PM

Thanks for the links- that was cool to hear. +1 for a remix!

shallbe

10-07-2008, 03:35 PM

That video link was interesting and confirms my feelings about Hammett.

s5c6ihLW50

10-07-2008, 04:26 PM

Kinda weird to listen to album with some kid and not Jason just playing bass over it. But, whatever... Watch the live DVD's if you want to hear/see Jason playing.

Disco Scottie

10-07-2008, 04:51 PM

Kinda weird to listen to album with some kid and not Jason just playing bass over it. But, whatever... Watch the live DVD's if you want to hear/see Jason playing.

I assume You're referring to the "And Justice For Jason" recording? 'Cause the links I posted are Jason playing. I've never heard the fan-played version.

Maven

10-07-2008, 04:57 PM

Interesting. I used to listen to this when I was in college and it always bugged me there was no bass on it. I thought whoever mixed that album must have been deaf..I'll have to check this out. Thanks for posting.

atquinn

10-07-2008, 08:42 PM

That is amazing, that's the way it should've sounded in the first place.

Here's Kirk Hammet dog-paddling to keep up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoMF2GgyKAA&feature=related

Wow, that was hilarious! Funnier than Spinal Tap! :rotflmao

-Austin

dk123123dk

10-07-2008, 09:30 PM

Wow, that was hilarious! Funnier than Spinal Tap! :rotflmao

-Austin

I'm not a big Metallica fan, but you have never struggled with a riff. Esp with the whole band waiting for you to learn it? I know he is supposed to be a great guitarist, but hes HUMAN! I don't really think its that big of a deal...

dk

atquinn

10-08-2008, 05:05 AM

I'm not a big Metallica fan, but you have never struggled with a riff. Esp with the whole band waiting for you to learn it? I know he is supposed to be a great guitarist, but hes HUMAN! I don't really think its that big of a deal...

dk

He plays metal and he was asked to learn an exceedingly simple metal riff that he had tons of trouble with. Add to that the "comedy-editing" (panning to Bob Rock rolling his eyes, etc...) and you get HILARIOUS :D Not that big of a deal? Of course not! Funnier than hell? Yup!

-Austin

Will Chen

10-08-2008, 09:49 AM

Wow, what a difference! Another vote for a remixed version.

MuseCafeChris

10-08-2008, 09:56 AM

I'm not a big Metallica fan, but you have never struggled with a riff. Esp with the whole band waiting for you to learn it? I know he is supposed to be a great guitarist, but hes HUMAN! I don't really think its that big of a deal...

dk

Anyone who thinks Kirk is a great guitarist is delusional. He's easily the least impressive player who's a member of a huge band.

That said, I don't see the reason to make him double that part. I prefered the part he played at the end that was looser and, most importantly, within his capabilities.

Platypus

10-08-2008, 11:48 AM

Heard something like this done before...

Honestly people rip on that album's mix, and while it is definitely lacking bass, I kind of like it in a weird way because I'm so used to it. I think this mix is way too bass heavy now. Bass is louder than the guitar? I'd love to hear this again if the bass wasn't so overpowering.

dk123123dk

10-08-2008, 03:29 PM

Anyone who thinks Kirk is a great guitarist is delusional. He's easily the least impressive player who's a member of a huge band.

That said, I don't see the reason to make him double that part. I prefered the part he played at the end that was looser and, most importantly, within his capabilities.

Anyone who makes fun of a multi millionaire musician on an internet forum is delusional. He's easily more successful than you.

Kirk must have something to offer if they have stuck with him. Maybe its his professionalism?

dk

MuseCafeChris

10-08-2008, 03:42 PM

Anyone who makes fun of a multi millionaire musician on an internet forum is delusional. He's easily more successful than you.
Money does not = success. Never has that been more apparent than in the current economic climate. Are the multimillionaire CEOs of AIG and the like more successful than you or I? My vote is "no."

And I wasn't making fun of him. Just stating an opinion, which seems to be supported by the video. He's not as good as you would expect him to be, considering that he took lessons from Satriani and has played thousands of live gigs during which he should have honed his craft better than he has, certainly to the point of being able to double that part.

Kirk must have something to offer if they have stuck with him. Maybe its his professionalism?
I'm gonna guess it's his passive nature. James and Lars seem to be control freaks who enjoy dominating their bandmates.

zekmoe

10-08-2008, 05:03 PM

dk123123dk

10-08-2008, 05:43 PM

Money does not = success. Never has that been more apparent than in the current economic climate. Are the multimillionaire CEOs of AIG and the like more successful than you or I? My vote is "no."

And I wasn't making fun of him. Just stating an opinion, which seems to be supported by the video. He's not as good as you would expect him to be, considering that he took lessons from Satriani and has played thousands of live gigs during which he should have honed his craft better than he has, certainly to the point of being able to double that part.

I'm gonna guess it's his passive nature. James and Lars seem to be control freaks who enjoy dominating their bandmates.

That vid was clearly edited. Kirk was struggling on the timing. I'd say every musician has a moment similar to that. And if you have never had one of those moments where you struggled with timing or a riff, then maybe you should go try out for Metallica.

I'm sure Kirk is a lot better than you are giving him credit for.

dk

Smakutus

10-08-2008, 05:59 PM

I think Kirk is an alright guitarist.. Certainly as good as James. It's one thing to play a riff like that when you've written the tune and quite another when you're sitting there with Bob Rock, James, Lars and a camera crew in your face. The poor guy was sweating for sure.

I also think they played a simpler version of that riff for the song and not the one he was trying to learn there. The riff sounded heavier without that "tickateetac" part between the chords.

That's a great movie by the way, I just watched it again last weekend. I loved how that had to keep telling Bob to quit smiling when he was playing bass with them.

Jeff

AshyLarry

10-08-2008, 08:56 PM

Blackened sounds way more evil with the bass! I like it, I really wish they would remix all the records. Especially death magnetic, I can't even listen to it with my headphones.

Disco Scottie

10-08-2008, 09:28 PM

Interesting, but the bass is too loud. It doesn't "mix" and negates the effect I think they were going for. Having heard this album 100+ times, I like the original mix better as music. This is probably better as a musician trying to figure things out, but as encompasing music, I'll take the first one.

What effect were they going for? No bass and shoebox drums? :barf1

There's no doubt the bass is louder than it should be this way, but the guy only had the final mix to marry it to. If Metallica went back and remixed from the ground up, and put the bass in at the right level, it would be a million times better than the original release.

I've listened to AJFA as much or more than you, and I now can't stand to hear either of these songs WITHOUT hearing the bass in there. I always felt it sounded incomplete... and from the majority of responses, there's lots of others who agree. We'll always have the '88 mix, it's not going anywhere. They could do it like the Star Trek original series remasters - the old special effects versions are available on DVD, and if you decide you want the updated shows, those are now available as well. It's not like you're erasing the old mixes from the face of the planet.

DerekEstrada

10-12-2008, 07:39 AM

hmmm....nothing shows up but the website...how do I play the track?

StereoDevil

03-09-2010, 05:06 PM

It's amazing how many people complain that the bass is too loud in the mix. Read the article and pay attention.

"FINALLY.... This is the original studio recording with Jason's bass MUCH higher in the mix. It was done with the isolated bass part in the video game "rock band" which was re-dubbed onto the song."

It is purposely MUCH higher so you can clearly hear it. It's not an official released and it hasn't been mastered so what do you expect?

About remixing the album. I would love to see it done out of respect for Jason but Hetfield has said numerous times that he doesn't want to look back and just move forward. I doubt it will happen but it would be nice.

blood5150

03-09-2010, 05:17 PM

Anyone who thinks Kirk is a great guitarist is delusional. He's easily the least impressive player who's a member of a huge band.

That said, I don't see the reason to make him double that part. I prefered the part he played at the end that was looser and, most importantly, within his capabilities.

Agreed. One of the worst players in the genre. Also the luckiest guy on earth.

The Last Rebel

03-09-2010, 05:23 PM

Kirk is definately the worst guitarist in Metallica. Probably good that James plays rhythm though, as Kirk doesn't have a rhythmic bone in his body.

Blanket Jackson

03-09-2010, 05:27 PM

Finally --- AJFA that I can listen to!

Now if Steve Gadd can just re-record the drums ....

deluxemeat

03-09-2010, 05:39 PM

cool but i feel it actually clutters the intro for blackened but sounds great on the slow middle section.

kokohi5

03-09-2010, 07:27 PM

Agreed. One of the worst players in the genre. Also the luckiest guy on earth.

I'm not a huge fan of what he plays now, but he was pretty badass on Ride The Lightning and Master Of Puppets, and even Garage Days. Part of that might be because he used to just concentrate on the solos and James did all the rhythm. I still think there are some really good solos on those albums. I'd imagine if it was him instead of Cliff that died on the bus then more people would be talking about how great he was. The only problem was he made more records.
Cliff really made everyone in that band better. No way would they have turned into what they are (or at least were for a long time) if Cliff was around. That dude had a serious vibe!

xntrick

03-09-2010, 07:43 PM

damn, i never did listen to this the first time around..thanks for the reminder

jazzandmetal?

03-09-2010, 07:46 PM

VERY COOL.

Cymbaline

03-09-2010, 09:47 PM

Every time I hear that, I want to wring Lars' scrawny little neck.

The Last Rebel

03-09-2010, 09:49 PM

Every time I hear that, I want to wring Lars' scrawny little neck.
That's the same effect St. Anger has on me. It sounds like he was using trash cans for drums.

Cymbaline

03-09-2010, 09:58 PM

I created my own custom remix of some of the songs on the album. I downloaded these tracks from YouTube, created wav files of the audio tracks, loaded them into Cool Edit Pro along with the album tracks, and mixed them together. Sounds great! Wish the whole album were available.

ExeRdxTSoss

C0nT4rOJ40Q

nvx1M4-A6lE

y6eri4-BcB4

uCjwMvwZ2vE

The Last Rebel

03-09-2010, 10:01 PM

Jason basically just doubled James on that entire album, so it's always been pretty easy for me to pick out his parts.

xntrick

03-10-2010, 12:13 AM

that was great, certainly adds to the song to hear some bass

78deluxe

03-10-2010, 07:15 AM

XSSIVE

03-10-2010, 07:56 AM

cool now we have AJFA with no bass and too much bass...how about someone trys the right amount next :D

-Mike

blood5150

03-10-2010, 08:19 PM

v5Bke0bgNGg

harmonicator

03-11-2010, 01:46 AM

aPgTq5NLVYU

the thrash masterpiece of all time needs to be remastered to it's full unrevealed glory!!!!

harmonicator

03-11-2010, 02:04 AM

James is even a better lead player than Kirk! Listen to James's solo on Nothing else matters; far superior and more melodic than anything Kirk's ever done IMO.

ecm1117

03-11-2010, 04:42 PM

the thrash masterpiece of all time needs to be remastered to it's full unrevealed glory!!!!

Yeah, I'd even say it needs to be remixed with more of Jason's bass, and reEQed all around too. I'd love to see it get the same type of treatment that Pearl Jam's Ten got last year!

GNRman72

03-11-2010, 04:52 PM

It sounds much better, but the bass is now too heavy in the mix if you ask me. I don't know about you, but I don't want to hear bass mixed louder than guitar.

agreed, it reminds me of Matt Freeman from Rancid, (which is great for rancid but not as much for metallica)

they should do it at Dave Ellefsons level, so its heard but doesnt take over the song.