Sailors! Tell me about CSN's Southern Cross

[Gas-man]

I know that the Southern Cross is a constellation and the song has a lot of sailing references but help me understand them.

The Marquesas? A place, yes, but where?

Papate?

Is it a certain route that he's talking about? And what do you do on a midnight watch?

I've always been wondering about this and I heard the song the other day.

[DiazDude]

All explained here...I just wondered the same thing last week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux

[gdomeier]

Does your city or one near you have a planetarium? Mine does. I went there for a public even this past winter. It has a state of the art setup that shows any and all views of the night sky. They easily showed the display from the southern hemisphere. The southern cross was very cool. Much cheaper than a trip way down south :)

At the end, they simulated the light pollution from our local city lights. Ugh...

[Gas-man]

All explained here...I just wondered the same thing last week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux

The astronomy is explained there, but not the sailing stuff--what route he was on, etc.

[Joe Robinson]

The astronomy is explained there, but not the sailing stuff--what route he was on, etc.

Papeete is the capital of French Polynesia and it is located on the island of Tahiti. Go to Hawaii, head due south. Cross the Equator. It's a bit after that.

Marquesas are an island chain in the same general area. Somewhat north and east of the French Polynesia group of Islands.

I believe a "downhill run" refers to sailing in a southerly direction, which one would be if they are heading to Papeete (Pop-eee-ay-tay) from the North.

[fullerplast]

Papeete is the capital of French Polynesia and it is located on the island of Tahiti. Go to Hawaii, head due south. Cross the Equator. It's a bit after that.

Marquesas are an iland chain in the same general area. Somewhat north and east of the French Polynesia group of Islands.

I believe a "downhill run" refers to sailing in a southerly direction, which one would be if they are heading to Papeete (Pop-eee-ay-tay) from the North.

A downhill run is going with the wind, i.e. sailing downwind. Most of the popular cruising routes follow the tradewinds because that is the least stressful point of sail and gets you there quickest. It's about a 3-4 week sail from Avalon (Catalina) to the Marquesas and lots of time to contemplate life and relationships, especially on a night watch. Most cruisers rotate on about a 4 hour watch, depending on crew and conditions but the overnight watch is often just you alone at the wheel....and of course the Southern Cross.;)

[BugSlayer]

A downhill run is going with the wind, i.e. sailing downwind.


I am not an open water sailor but I have crewed some races on the Chesapeake Bay and when I hear the term 'Downhill Run', I agree that it is sailing with the wind to your stern. Set the sails and kick back. No tacking or jibbing, just catch waves and surf your way there! A very agreeable way to travel!

[sausagefingers]

Got out of town on a boat
Goin' to Southern islands.
Sailing a reach
Before a followin' sea.
She was makin' for the trades
On the outside,
And the downhill run
To Papeete.
Off the wind on this heading
Lie the Marquesas.
We got eighty feet of the waterline.
Nicely making way.
In a noisy bar in Avalon
I tried to call you.
But on a midnight watch I realized
Why twice you ran away.

From sailing camp days 20+ years ago, a reach is sailing at right angles to the wind. Making way is sailor-speak for 'moving'.

If you read the Patrick O'Brian 'Master and Commander' books you'll pick up a lot of this stuff.

[Gas-man]

Thanks. Just the info I was looking for.

Great song.

One piece of trivia: Crosby did not play on this song at all. It was during his free-base period. Timothy B Schmit (sp) sang background vokes.

[StompBoxBlues]

Just a tidbit...I believe the southern cross is the only directional equivalent of the north star you can see in the southern hemisphere (the north star is not visible). Unlike the north star (polar star) the southern cross doesn't remain stationary in the sky, but the cool thing...

It rotates as it moves across the sky (I know...IT doesn't move, we do..but just using the normal way we say it) so that when it is facing south the cross is upright. It starts out (east) on its one side, slowly rights itself and is upright when pointing south...not sure if it is completely due south, and then starts tilting on the other side.

I didn't make this up, but may have gotten some of it wrong. It is from memory and hearsay.

[fullerplast]

Just saw Crosby and Nash last night. Encore was Wooden Ships, another great sailing song....even has another downwind reference: "wind blowing warm out of the south over my shoulder, think I'll set a course and go".:AOK

[Cowboy]

Thanks, you collective bunch of nautical TGPers!

I'm sitting here in my office, between students, looking out the window - dreaming of sailing to Tahiti... :knitting

I was just on my bass player's 43 foot Beneteau, talking about that very trip. Nice stress break... :dude

Cowboy

[Joe Robinson]

A downhill run is going with the wind, i.e. sailing downwind. Most of the popular cruising routes follow the tradewinds because that is the least stressful point of sail and gets you there quickest. It's about a 3-4 week sail from Avalon (Catalina) to the Marquesas and lots of time to contemplate life and relationships, especially on a night watch. Most cruisers rotate on about a 4 hour watch, depending on crew and conditions but the overnight watch is often just you alone at the wheel....and of course the Southern Cross.;)


Thanks for the clarification. I'm not a sailor. But I did work at a large cruise line for several years. The old Brit capitans used to say downhill when they were talking about heading south, but your explanation makes much more sense.

[joseph]

We got eighty feet of the waterline.
Nicely making way.

I suspect the royalties from Suite Judy Blue Eyes paid for it ;).

The dude currently lives on an estate in Hawaii.

oh well, back to work .... to fund the bailout for the other guys with yachts, our banker friends...

[jefesq]

Eighty feet of waterline = longer boat

[angus99]

and, all things being equal, a faster boat. waterline length is big part of theoretical hull speed.

angus

[FirstBassman]

Just saw Crosby and Nash last night. Encore was Wooden Ships, another great sailing song....


Co-written with Paul Kantner, whose name was left off of the CS&N album credits because of legal hassles with the Airplane's former manager.

[hellbender]

The term following sea is an ocean swell direction at your stern, the easiest way to go.

[Flyin' Brian]

I know zip about sailing, but it's amazing how much of this stuff ties to flying. Cool thread.

[fullerplast]

I know zip about sailing, but it's amazing how much of this stuff ties to flying. Cool thread.

Sure, keels and sails are just like wings turned on edge and travelling through two different mediums simultaneously. Lift and drag have similar analogies. Navigation and wind/current vectors have pretty direct correlations though. :cool:

[fullerplast]

Co-written with Paul Kantner, whose name was left off of the CS&N album credits because of legal hassles with the Airplane's former manager.

Yeah, written on Crosby's boat along with Stills. Crosby was mostly the music, with Kantner and Stills lyrics. Would have been cool to be a fly on that cabin wall.....:cool:

[fullerplast]

and, all things being equal, a faster boat. waterline length is big part of theoretical hull speed.

angus

Yep. Maximum speed for a displacement hull is the square root of the waterline times 1.34. So an 80 foot boat has a max hull speed of about 12 knots, about 1.4 times the max speed of a 40 foot boat at 8.5 knots.

So sailing from California to the Marquesas is kinda like riding a bicycle across the USA, IOW slow. Papeete is almost another 1000 miles SW from the Marquesas.

[skydog]

And then there's the "cruder" Neil:
Look out, Mama, there's a white boat comin' up the river

[angus99]

Yep. Maximum speed for a displacement hull is the square root of the waterline times 1.34. So an 80 foot boat has a max hull speed of about 12 knots, about 1.4 times the max speed of a 40 foot boat at 8.5 knots.

So sailing from California to the Marquesas is kinda like riding a bicycle across the USA, IOW slow. Papeete is almost another 1000 miles SW from the Marquesas.

All true, but sometimes it doesn't feel slow. A few years ago, we took an 78-ft Alden cutter-rigged ketch (with less than 80 feet of waterline) from Norfolk to the BVIs. The islands were on the horizon at dawn--the first sight of land after 9 days of rough going at sea. We had all four sails pulling hard on a beam reach and were doing 13+ knots on the GPS -- probably helped by favorable currents -- as we maneuvered among that white sand and crystal clear azure water. All while Southern Cross (and later Buffet) blasted out on the sound system. Pure heaven.

Angus

[fullerplast]

And then there's the "cruder" Neil:
Look out, Mama, there's a white boat comin' up the river

Well, "Powerfinger" really has nothing to do with sailing, or even boats but Neil does know what sailing is all about. "Sail Away" is probably a bit more appropriate example for this thread:

I could live inside a tepee
I could die in Penthouse thirty-five
You could lose me on the freeway
But I would still make it back alive.

As long as we can sail away
As long as we can sail away
There'll be wind in the canyon
Moon on the rise
As long as we can sail away.

See the losers in the best bars
Meet the winners in the dives
Where the people are the real stars
All the rest of their lives.

As long as we can sail away
As long as we can sail away
There'll be wind in the canyon
Moon on the rise
As long as we can sail away.

There's a road stretched out between us
Like a ribbon on the high plain
Down from Phoenix through Salinas
'Round the bend and back again.

As long as we can sail away
As long as we can sail away
There'll be wind in the canyon
Moon on the rise
As long as we can sail away
As long as we can sail away.

[skydog]

How quaint!

[angus99]

How quaint!

:huh

[skydog]

The syrupy NY lyrics being posted!
As long as we can sail away
Tra la la la la la la laaaaaaa aaaah

[banjoze]

I've always wondered what he was thinking when he said this:

When you see the Southern Cross
For the first time
You understand now
Why you came this way

[fullerplast]

I've always wondered what he was thinking when he said this:

When you see the Southern Cross
For the first time
You understand now
Why you came this way

My interpretation is simply that sailing anywhere you can see the Southern Cross involves *big* open oceans (you can't see it in the Northern hemispere). It puts your "problems" in perspective......as in the next line: "the truth you might be running from is so small". Then of course followed by promise of a new day and a new start. Good stuff!

[banjoze]

brilliant writing, no doubt...

[TNJ]

(Thread pulled from the depths!)

That's Stills for ya.

S.
j

[missing_dave]

(Thread pulled from the depths!)



S.
j


and thanks for doing so...love boating more than almost anything (despite not owning one) and CSN is a fav as well..great thread idea to the OP.

[5E3]

I got to see the Southern Cross constellation once. I was sailing along the south side of of Isla Caja de Muerto at night. Very cool. :aok

[Strung Up]

Another nautical-themed CSNY fave is 'Lee Shore'.

[Cable Guy]

We got eighty feet of the waterline.
Nicely making way.

I suspect the royalties from Suite Judy Blue Eyes paid for it ;).

The dude currently lives on an estate in Hawaii.

oh well, back to work .... to fund the bailout for the other guys with yachts, our banker friends...

Its a shame they dont share with aging bandmates and writing partners.

[todd richman]

A favorite Stills song. Nice info for a non-sailor too. Thanks.

[BluesForDan]

I got to see the Southern Cross constellation once. I was sailing along the south side of of Isla Caja de Muerto at night. Very cool. :aok

Isla Caja de Muerto? Island of the box of death? Coffin Island? Doesn't sound terribly inviting?