Black Sabbath "Sabotage"...

[BMF Effects]

...bad recording/engineering? CD's not taken from master tapes? Recording style for the period?

The whole album sounds like it was mastered through a cocked wah pedal. :dunno

[s5c6ihLW50]

Have you bought the 2001 remastered CD? I replaced all of my Sabbath with Castle Remasters. The DIO ones sound especially butt kicking. For Born Again, you have to get the DEMO bootleg. The Ozzy ones prolly will never sound better than these remasters.

[BMF Effects]

I'll have to look into the remasters, thanks. :AOK

[mikem]

...bad recording/engineering? CD's not taken from master tapes? Recording style for the period?

The whole album sounds like it was mastered through a cocked wah pedal. :dunno

Yep- Tony's tone is pretty rough on that one. I like it in a way. The drums (cymbals, anyone) are kinda rough as well. Ozzy's vocals are raging, though. He sounds like he's in serious trouble. I have to say that I usually play Sabotage and Never Say Die more than any of my other Sabbath CDs. I have no idea why this is so. The music on these two discs seems to epitomize a band getting on with business despite dire circumstances, I think. Sabotage was delayed due to legal wrangling with their record company, I believe, and Never Say Die was made just before Ozzy left the band. Some of this desperation seems to filter through the music. Neither album is what anyone would qualify as brilliantly produced.

Mike

[Rotten]

se-ob-se-ob-se-ob-se-obsessed with fantasy ...

I love that album.

[MuseCafeChris]

Have you bought the 2001 remastered CD? I replaced all of my Sabbath with Castle Remasters. The DIO ones sound especially butt kicking. For Born Again, you have to get the DEMO bootleg. The Ozzy ones prolly will never sound better than these remasters.

Does the Black Box contain remastered versions of the Ozzy-era stuff?

[BMF Effects]

"Hole In the Sky" is just a killer riff. I'm going to look into the Castle remasters.

[Pally]

I think Sabatage marks the beginning of the period where Black Sabbath lost thier way.

The first album was recorded in about 12 hours over 2 days. Sabbatage took nearly 6 months.

IMO, at that point they had too much money, success, drugs, and too little perspective about where they came from.

[Randy]

I still remember the first time I heard "Symptom of the universe" - blew my mind. I was probably 11 or 12 and it was the heaviest thing I had ever heard.

Discovering "Blow on the jug" on the original vinyl version was a fun treat as well...

[mikem]

I think Sabatage marks the beginning of the period where Black Sabbath lost thier way.

The first album was recorded in about 12 hours over 2 days. Sabbatage took nearly 6 months.

IMO, at that point they had too much money, success, drugs, and too little perspective about where they came from.

It's funny that you say that- Ozzy said something similar, stating that the amount of overdubs increased with every album they put out. he wasn't happy about it.

Mike

[mikem]

I still remember the first time I heard "Symptom of the universe" - blew my mind. I was probably 11 or 12 and it was the heaviest thing I had ever heard.

Discovering "Blow on the jug" on the original vinyl version was a fun treat as well...

I was about fifteen and that, along with the rest of their catalogue, ruined me for life.

Mike

[mikem]

se-ob-se-ob-se-ob-se-obsessed with fantasy ...

I love that album.

I still play the damned thing, thirty years after I first heard it- talk about arrested development!

Mike

[JamminJeff]

"Hole In the Sky" is just a killer riff. I'm going to look into the Castle remasters.

+ 9....my fav in your face BS tune. Brialliant sound too !

[Xabiche]

It's funny that you say that- Ozzy said something similar, stating that the amount of overdubs increased with every album they put out. he wasn't happy about it.

Mike

Screw all that.

Sabotage thru Never Say Die! had some amazingly tasty layered and thick-assed tunes. I don't give a flyin' **** if it wuz all drawn out, drug induced studio wankage. I love that shit.

It rocks... crank "Shock Wave" in the phones and tell me it doesn't bring it.

Yeah, it is different than the earlier stuff but isn't that really the point?

[amigo30]

It's all good. Every album is so different...there's something to like in every one of them.

[buchla300]

Screw all that.

Sabotage thru Never Say Die! had some amazingly tasty layered and thick-assed tunes. I don't give a flyin' **** if it wuz all drawn out, drug induced studio wankage. I love that shit.

It rocks... crank "Shock Wave" in the phones and tell me it doesn't bring it.

Yeah, it is different than the earlier stuff but isn't that really the point?
Exactamundo
I like ALL their albums from the 70´s
Different and quite experimental for a rock band.

Shock Wave is an amazing track. Most bands would make a career out of just the riffs in that one song! Prog Rock baby :dude

[seajay]

...bad recording/engineering? CD's not taken from master tapes? Recording style for the period?

The whole album sounds like it was mastered through a cocked wah pedal. :dunno

That's a good way to put it.

But hot damn if "Hole in the Sky" and "Symptom of the Universe" aren't 2 of their finest tracks! :dude

Does the Black Box contain remastered versions of the Ozzy-era stuff?

Chris...Black Box contains remasters of only the original Ozzy-era stuff.

[P90Nut]

Yeah!!!!!


"Hole In the Sky" is just a killer riff. I'm going to look into the Castle remasters.

[MuseCafeChris]

Chris...Black Box contains remasters of only the original Ozzy-era stuff.

Right, which is what I'm looking for. Ordered it today! I'm ashamed to say I've never heard Vol. 4 or anything after all the way through. Gotta right that wrong!

[buchla300]

Right, which is what I'm looking for. Ordered it today! I'm ashamed to say I've never heard Vol. 4 or anything after all the way through. Gotta right that wrong!

Vol 4 is incredible. Raw and heavy and drug fuelled. Not condoning, but that´s what it is! Intense.
"Supernaut" is possibly my favorite Sabbath song, but there too many. Iommi just has the heaviest sound on Vol 4.
I love it.

[JDW3]

Wheels Of Confusion from Vol. 4 is freakin awesome. Ozzy sounds killer.

[mikem]

Vol 4 is incredible. Raw and heavy and drug fuelled. Not condoning, but that´s what it is! Intense.
"Supernaut" is possibly my favorite Sabbath song, but there too many. Iommi just has the heaviest sound on Vol 4.
I love it.

It really is a great album- haven't heard it in awhile- I'm gonna have to pull that one out and give it a spin. I remember hearing "Wheels Of Confusion" the first time and my jaw hitting the floor and then hearing "Supernaut" and my jaw hitting the floor again. I played the shit out of the first five Sabbath albums and put them away a few years back. Time to pull them out again!

Mike

[seajay]

Right, which is what I'm looking for. Ordered it today! I'm ashamed to say I've never heard Vol. 4 or anything after all the way through. Gotta right that wrong!

Excellent. There is a lot of good stuff on the Vol. 4 & onward albums.

[BluesForDan]

I found my cassette of Paranoid, recorded over 20 years ago from the original vinyl, today. Heck, that tape is probably closer to 25 years old.

It sounded fantastic. Thankfully, today was one of the increasingly rare days that my car's stereo functioned properly.

"What you gonna do?
Time's caught up with you.
Now you wait your turn.
You know there's no return."

[mikem]

I found my cassette of Paranoid, recorded over 20 years ago from the original vinyl, today. Heck, that tape is probably closer to 25 years old.

It sounded fantastic. Thankfully, today was one of the increasingly rare days that my car's stereo functioned properly.

"What you gonna do?
Time's caught up with you.
Now you wait your turn.
You know there's no return."

That song is killer! That and Electric Funeral are my favourite tracks off of Paranoid.

It does my heart good to see that there are other Sabbath fans from way back out there. they blew my mind when I was fifteen and I haven't recovered from it. Metal may get more distorted, twisted and complicated, but it will never get creepier than those first three albums.

Mike

[Xabiche]

You know... the secret to Sabbath is the simple, age-old 3-piece secret: all three gotta deliver.

:)

[barkingpumpkin]

It really is a great album- haven't heard it in awhile- I'm gonna have to pull that one out and give it a spin. I remember hearing "Wheels Of Confusion" the first time and my jaw hitting the floor and then hearing "Supernaut" and my jaw hitting the floor again. I played the shit out of the first five Sabbath albums and put them away a few years back. Time to pull them out again!

Mike

What tone! Yes, I love all three priors (having listened front-to-back every night as I fall alsleep for the last say, 30 or so years or so to the first three or five.) Remember the Sony Sport Walkmans and disc players? I may have missed maybe a half-dozen nights in all those years. (Accuracy +_ 30 days) Both unfortunately and fortunately, I am apparently addicted. Full disclosure: all I can play on guitar is Sabbath. First song was "Into the Void". \m/ What a paradox! ;-) Iommi's tone changed from Vol. 4 to SBS and beyond in graduations. I liked most of his tones but at times it was quite shrill. I also think that Ozzy fried his voice from Coke on or about the SBS sesions. Since then, he hasn't been able to hit the vocal range on that album. Studio magic? I think not.

[mikem]

What tone! Yes, I love all three priors (having listened front-to-back every night as I fall alsleep for the last say, 30 or so years or so to the first three or five.) Remember the Sony Sport Walkmans and disc players? I may have missed maybe a half-dozen nights in all those years. (Accuracy +_ 30 days) Both unfortunately and fortunately, I am apparently addicted. Full disclosure: all I can play on guitar is Sabbath. First song was "Into the Void". \m/ What a paradox! ;-) Iommi's tone changed from Vol. 4 to SBS and beyond in graduations. I liked most of his tones but at times it was quite shrill. I also think that Ozzy fried his voice from Coke on or about the SBS sesions. Since then, he hasn't been able to hit the vocal range on that album. Studio magic? I think not.

I had to forcibly put my first five Sabbath albums out of the way because that's almost all I was listening to for years and years. I used to have the really cheap faux Walkman units that were basically disposable. I wasn't able to learn "Into The Void until I had been playing for awhile, but I could crank out mean single note (instead of power chords) versions of "Sweet Leaf" or "Lord Of This World" when I was starting out- lol. Iommi's tone really was never consistent from album to album- when he started tuning down on MOR it really blew my mind and made their tunes seem more dirge-like. Same with Ozzy's voice- he started off sounding more alto and ended up with a soprano voice by V4. I still think Ozzy sounded very good (maybe not from a technical perspective) on Sabotage.

It's great knowing that there are other Sabbath freaks out there.

Mike

[JDW3]

It's amazing how high Ozzy could sing on Hole In The Sky.

[michaelvincent]

Sabbath definitely had something a lot of metal bands were missing for awhile: serious groove. All of their really great material had a great swing to it.

I do have a special fondness for the later Ozzy-era material though. There's something kind of endearing to the slightly dazed and confused, coked-out stuff they were writing. Some of those riffs are really unique sounding.

[Randy]

I was just listening to Sabotage this morning - did Geezer tune slightly out of pitch to the guitars? It sure sounds like he's slightly flat, which helps create that huge rumbling dissonance in his bass tone....

[Mayor McCheese]

It's amazing how high Ozzy could sing on Hole In The Sky.

He kind of sounds like Plant on that one.

[bigdaddyj]

That album gives me shivers and goosebumps. Scared the hell out me when my brother brought it home from the store and played it for the first time. Started my headbangers journey!

[rwe333]

Ozzy at his most hysterical... Some incredible vocals.
Great riffs/tunes, poor guitar timbres.
The cover photo highlights an absolutely frightening fashion sense.

[buchla300]

Ozzy at his most hysterical... Some incredible vocals.
Great riffs/tunes, poor guitar timbres.
The cover photo highlights an absolutely frightening fashion sense.

Sorry. Disagree. I love his tone for it´s unique quality. I´m not sure I´d like all guitars to sound like his, but if he sounded "better" it wouldn´t have been Sabbath.

[rwe333]

Sorry. Disagree. I love his tone for it´s unique quality. I´m not sure I´d like all guitars to sound like his, but if he sounded "better" it wouldn´t have been Sabbath.

I'm only referring to the Sabotage recording.
Iommi's tracked some incredible tones over the years.

[buchla300]

Ok. Sorry, misunderstood!

[Plan9FOS]

Love that album, and yes it sounds horrible as far as recording ... but Symptom Of The Universe just wails ... I wish I had a copy at work ...

[Xabiche]

Sabbath definitely had something a lot of metal bands were missing for awhile: serious groove.

And that's what most metal bands lack now. Without the groove my ears get fatigued quickly.

And speaking of the groove... we have some Shock Wave soundboard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOSkpGsUusg

And here's the studio version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4LrOt1rR0U

As Clay says... "they're playing behind the beat, man!"

[barkingpumpkin]

I had to forcibly put my first five Sabbath albums out of the way because that's almost all I was listening to for years and years. I used to have the really cheap faux Walkman units that were basically disposable. I wasn't able to learn "Into The Void until I had been playing for awhile, but I could crank out mean single note (instead of power chords) versions of "Sweet Leaf" or "Lord Of This World" when I was starting out- lol. Iommi's tone really was never consistent from album to album- when he started tuning down on MOR it really blew my mind and made their tunes seem more dirge-like. Same with Ozzy's voice- he started off sounding more alto and ended up with a soprano voice by V4. I still think Ozzy sounded very good (maybe not from a technical perspective) on Sabotage.

It's great knowing that there are other Sabbath freaks out there.

Mike

Hey Mike, Thanks for your response. Funny you mention LOTW. It's the first song in my iTouch playlist every night. Many don't realize how long some Sabbath songs are. They are essentially two or more songs in length on occasion (according to the 3 minute rule, eh?) I am kind of intimidated by Lord of This World. I'm not sure why. How did you learn it? Front to back or did you break it down into sections, etc? My late-40's-year-old-addled brain can't connect the dots on that one. Thanks EDIT: BTW, not sure if you know who Scott Weinrich (Wino) (St. Vitus, The Obsessed, Spirit Caravan, The Hidden Hand) is, however, there is a live version on Sucking the 70's compilation (double CD) of "Stoner Rock" bands (or as I prefer to refer to them as Alternative Metal) covering 70's songs. Amazing stuff. Anyho... Wino covers LOTW. Worth seeking out if you're into Sabbath! Wino is a Gawd.

[barkingpumpkin]

It's amazing how high Ozzy could sing on Hole In The Sky.

Please refer to previous mentions of Cocaine use during SBS. No doubt Vol. 4 as well. Love Vol. 4. Clear sinuses, etc. ;-) BTW, Converse has just released Black Sabbath Vol. 4 versions of their black high tops. No Shit. I think you have to order them from Converse.

[barkingpumpkin]

I still play the damned thing, thirty years after I first heard it- talk about arrested development!

Mike

Arrested Development Anonymous. 'Hi Mike!' It's okay. Still holds up and likely always will. A moment in time. BTW, you talk about ruined for life... My only explanation for why every time I pick up a guitar, I play Sabbath. Actually, it's kind of a problem I'm having breaking out. BTW, I pick the most difficult songs to learn. Not the easy ones. Not Standard tuning. All the Jazz breaks. Just the 7 minutes songs. I struggle with the headphones with the left-right panned doubled guitars and then attempt to relate them to my collection of tab. Actually, I have the same problem with Zappa. Well, that's probably understandable but I would challenge casual observers to nail a 6-7 minute Sabbath song and tone. Note for note. Pros not need apply. :-) Actually... I'd love to hear any pros cover Sabbath. The cover albums were great.

[Guitar Slinger6]

There are very, VERY few bands that I loved back in the day and still love. Black Sabbath is still one band that I love. Great music all around that has stood the test of time.

[trower]

In regards to the Ozzy years, It seems a thou they had a few releases that were very much signature's of what Tony's guitar tone was doing at the time. "Sabotage" was a unique one without a doubt. "Vol.4" and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" could have been recorded at the same time, "Paranoid" and "Masters of Reality" are very similar too..but uniquely the first release "Black Sabbath", "Sabotage" and "Technical Ecstasy" were very dissimilar to me in style and production and I love them for it. I don't believe Sabbath ever put out a bad album w/Ozzy. I would have to admit, "Never Say Die" was their weakest tune-smith wise but this effort also contained my favorite Sab tune in "Air Dance" The opening is Tony at his Epic riffing best! The filter saturated Solo within this tune is mind boggling, reminiscent of "You won't change me" or "Warning" Pure Iommi. I grew up on Sabbath and still find them relevant. I'd stack any of their LP's against much of todays stuff.

[barkingpumpkin]

I'll have to give Never Say Die a few more listens. I've always struggled to love this album, although there are some gems such as Hard Road, Swinging the Chain, and Never Say Die although I feel that's the weakest of the three.

BTW, when I suggested I had problems with LOTW, I was thinking Wicked World. If I could nail that, well...

\m/

[amigo30]

Dammit! This thread has inspired me to go play Sabotage and Never Say Die at silly loud volume levels.

I usually like to drink some wine when I park my ass in front of the speakers..and all I have at the moment is some cheap rum and cherry coke zero's. I'll be blaming my hangover and indigestion on you guys tomorrow.

[Guitar Slinger6]

Dammit! This thread has inspired me to go play Sabotage and Never Say Die at silly loud volume levels.

I usually like to drink some wine when I park my ass in front of the speakers..and all I have at the moment is some cheap rum and cherry coke zero's. I'll be blaming my hangover and indigestion on you guys tomorrow.

Play "Symptoms of the Universe" for me, that tone coupled with that riff is the most violent sounding riff that I have still heard to this day. That riff reminds me of the Vikings in Bezerk mode!!! :dude YEAH!! :dude