Why are many professional published tabs plain wrong?

[townsend]

The background: I've always wanted to try to play Jethro Tull's Sossity: You're A Woman. This is a beautiful and interesting steel string guitar song. I'm not great at picking songs out (esp. if there are multiple acoustic guitars involved), so I purchased the only tab book I knew of at the time that included this song: Jethro Tull Greatest Hits, Acoustic Tull/Volume 2.

There are definitely accurate tabs in this book, but I could never play Sossity. It just didn't seem to fit. I tried again several years later, and though I know the melody by heart, I just couldn't get it to work.

I decided that the problem was me (as is usually the case). For example, sometimes if you can't play a song "up to speed," it just won't sound "right."

Today after reading another post, I go to www.sheetmusicdirect.us (http://www.sheetmusicdirect.us) and, out of sheer curiosity, decide to check out Sossity. I download the software and bring up the sample page. I pull out my tab book, and note that the tabs differ in major respects. I play the MIDI file version of the sheetmusicdirect version, and that confirms that that tab (not the one I own) fits the song!

What is going on here? My tab has a "1970 Chrysalis Music" copyright; the sheetmusicdirect tab says "1971 Chrysalis Music." The tab I bought had enough errors that the song was unrecognizeable to me.

I know guitar transcription can't always be exact. I've e-mailed Andy Aledort on differences between his Hendrix Signature Licks book and his Hendrix Are You Experienced DVD. But these differences are miniscule, and result from determining whether Hendrix played a portion of a riff on the 2nd vs. the 3rd string. That difference is inconsequential.

I've seen numerous tabs to Led Zeppelin's Ramble On. But most of them sound like the song, and in this case it's hard to know where Jimmy played it, unless one has video footage of a performance. I'm forgiving here.

But this Sossity tab I purchased is so off that I can't even play the song! I'm sure there are many other examples. I basically bought a 17.95 tab book for one song, and the tab is incorrect. The front of my tab book has the phrase "authentic transcriptions." Really? This is irritating, especially when you purchase the tab. I still plan to purchase tabs, but caveat emptor. Anyone else had similar experiences?

[Tone_Terrific]

Speculating-
But quite a while back real guitar tab was almost impossible to find. We has to make do with piano/vocal and chord charts. The fills and riff were written in the piano melody line, if at all. circa 1970
A tab 'transcription' may have been simply a method of playing what had been 'transcribed' based on the piano/vocal rendition of the tune i.e. you pass the piano sheet music to your staff guitar player and have him re-transcribe the piece as tab...done. BUT, not necessarily accurate to actual recorded performance. Buyer beware. Things have improved a lot although those old ones may still be kicking around. Just imo.

[ssss]

Some tabs I've seen were obviously not written by guitarists. While they were often correct in terms of bare notation/rhythm, they were basically unplayable because the notes were tabbed all in the wrong places on the fretboard and the tabs didn't make sense in a guitar context.

Stuff like for ex. G being tabbed on the 7th fret/B string instead of 12th fret/G string etc. etc.

[SyKrash]

Alot of times too, the typesetting screws the notes up. It's basically just like translating a book. One mistake gets made somewhere along the line between author and publisher and by the time anyone notices, it's already on the shelves at guitar center.

[BluesForDan]

I bet a lot of those erroneous transcriptions were the result of disinterested individuals who get paid a pittance compared to the performers. The transcribers probably went to music school, majoring in classical piano. They can't get a gig to save their life. Meanwhile, the filthy, untalented hippy guitarists drug and booze their way through armies of groupies, have money thrown at them left and right. They can't remember what the hell they did in the studio when they wrote the song in the midst of a drug-fueled jam session that got caught on tape. But they're fat, dumb, happy and rich, so they don't care.

The transcriber does a half-assed job, gets paid the meager amount they get paid, and who the hell is going to be able to tell if they got that second riff in the third bar, 2nd verse right or not? Transcriber is probably thinking "Who the hell is going to want to play this tripe, anyway? It is not a Mozart or Tchaikovsky, for pete's sakes."

The internet stuff is often done by people who actually like the composition, hence their desire to transcribe it and share it with fellow fans of the tune.

[Ken Ho]

Hey, glad my link was helpful.
My take is that accurate transcribing is very difficult to do, which is why "use your ears" bugs me so much. Sometimes though, you see mistakes which have to be plain laziness or total abscence of any proof-reading by a musician. I can't explain that at all.
The Hallelujah tab I bought recently showed all chords in capo and open designations. Half of the last page had these switched around, then it came right again. Weird !

[daddyo]

I find this disregard for accuracy even in things like chords for hymnsi published books. They'll be a hymn people have been playing on piano for a hundred years. The piano music will be dead on but not the guitar chords. Wrong chords. Wrong locations.

[CharAznable]

When I was starting out, I bought a Black Crowes tab book that was blatantly and obviously wrong, even to my then untrained ears. When I learned how to really play the songs from other sources, I went back and realized how horrible and mediocre the transcription was. And I had paid money for it.

[KRosser]

It's because they don't care about the quality and they're just trying to make a fast buck.

Honest - try approaching one of them with corrections and see what they say.

[90wreck]

I use them only as a template or lauching pad for something I can't figure out on my own.
Wrong positions is the biggest mistake.(as well as wrong notes..but it will get you started and you can fine tune it on your own)

[Ken Ho]

I use them only as a template or lauching pad for something I can't figure out on my own.
Wrong positions is the biggest mistake.(as well as wrong notes..but it will get you started and you can fine tune it on your own)

Yeah, wrong position is one of those thoings that make it obvious no-one with a clue has proof read it. Sometimes you see the screwiest fingering even a doofus like me can see is wrong.
Current publicaitons are still miles ahead of the shite I had when young and trying to learn. Everyhing just chord boxes, no riffs or fills, wrong key, hopeless.

[Dasein]

This is a problem for you? Figure it out!

[darth_vader]

This is a problem for you? Figure it out!

Whilst I agree that picking things up by ear is probably the best way to quickly improve your guitar playing and your listening skills, not everyone has the time to sit down and spend half an hour to an hour just to work out the parts of a song by ear. Other times, you might need things together in a hurry (say, learning tunes for a new band) and don't have time to do it by ear. Tabs and sheet music have their place, and it's a pain when a piece of music you're relying on is completely wrong.

[Dasein]

.. not everyone has the time to sit down and spend half an hour to an hour just to work out the parts of a song by ear....I actually call that guitar playing. If you don't have the time, take up another hobby.

[darth_vader]

I actually call that guitar playing. If you don't have the time, take up another hobby.

Ugh, it's not worth the argument :puh

[smallbutmighty]

I actually call that guitar playing. If you don't have the time, take up another hobby.

:rolleyes:

ac

[daddyo]

I actually call that guitar playing. If you don't have the time, take up another hobby.
So your in a band. You get a gig that is tomorrow night and for whatever reason, you need to play some song you don't know and you're barely aware of. You don't have 4 hours to sit down with a SlowDowner and learn the song's solos. What do you do?

[Tripower455]

I use them only as a template or lauching pad for something I can't figure out on my own.
Wrong positions is the biggest mistake.(as well as wrong notes..but it will get you started and you can fine tune it on your own)

Ditto....

Unless they use wierd voicings, I'd rather just have the name of the note, and I'll figure it out from there, rather than get bogged down in the wrong stuff......

[Dasein]

So your [sic] in a band. You get a gig that is tomorrow night and for whatever reason, you need to play some song you don't know and you're barely aware of. You don't have 4 hours to sit down with a SlowDowner and learn the song's solos. What do you do?Never used a slow downer, but I've used tabs -- I think they're great. What I wouldn't do is post some asinine question or complaint about the accuracy of tabs - as if the industry had personally let me down. I think learning guitar parts is ultimately my responsibility and that each tool or piece of music or tablature (or even help from a friend) that I use should be mitigated by my the use and development of my own ear. I certainly wouldn't blame you or tabs inc. if that shitty obscure tab I managed to get my hands on was incorrect in any way. All I need is to be remotely in the ballpark - my ear is the most powerful tool I have for zeroing in on voicings - that and experience. It wouldn't take me long.

We're lucky to have any tabs at all considering the skill level required to actually make a transcription - it's no surprise some of them are incorrect - they're bloody hard to make and are a labour of love (and a product unique to the skill level of the transcriptor and the economic constraints they are working under). I remember when ALL there was available was piano scores.... we have it so easy today.

So I'd say - celebrate tabs - don't complain about them. And I would encourage the OP to use his ear and spend some time to work through his quandary. It's actually a very necessary and important skill that needs to be exercised. An argument can be made that tabs hinder this development -- but that's not my aim here -- I was defending tabs against an expectation that I found was ridiculous.

[Prodigy]

Never used a slow downer, but I've used tabs -- I think they're great. What I wouldn't do is post some asinine question or complaint about the accuracy of tabs - as if the industry had personally let me down. I think learning guitar parts is ultimately my responsibility and that each tool or piece of music or tablature (or even help from a friend) that I use should be mitigated by my the use and development of my own ear. I certainly wouldn't blame you or tabs inc. if that shitty obscure tab I managed to get my hands on was incorrect in any way. All I need is to be remotely in the ballpark - my ear is the most powerful tool I have for zeroing in on voicings - that and experience. It wouldn't take me long.

We're lucky to have any tabs at all considering the skill level required to actually make a transcription - it's no surprise some of them are incorrect - they're bloody hard to make and are a labour of love (and a product unique to the skill level of the transcriptor and the economic constraints they are working under). I remember when ALL there was available was piano scores.... we have it so easy today.

So I'd say - celebrate tabs - don't complain about them. And I would encourage the OP to use his ear and spend some time to work through his quandary. It's actually a very necessary and important skill that needs to be exercised. An argument can be made that tabs hinder this development -- but that's not my aim here -- I was defending tabs against an expectation that I found was ridiculous.

+1. You will train your ears and improve your overall musicianship much faster without using tab. Want to instantly play what you hear in your head? Ditch the tabs.

[whitehall]

Ah yes, tab books in the 70's. My favorite....Hendrix for easy piano :roll

[offbeat]

"What I wouldn't do is post some asinine question or complaint about the accuracy of tabs - as if the industry had personally let me down." --"I was defending tabs against an expectation that I found was ridiculous."

I occasionally use tabs to figure out a chord that my ear just can't grab, or a lick that goes by so fast I can't remember all the notes. I can't remember the last time I looked up the tab for a song I had to learn for a gig.

But, I think the OP has a legitimate rant. I'd be a lot more tolerant of mistakes in on-line tab, since it could be posted by a guy with no more talent than I have. If I bought a book and paid good money for it, I'd expect it to be pretty darn accurate.

If a piano player bought a book of sheet music, say, a Beethoven collection, and the notes were wrong, don't you think he'd have a beef? Or would the piano player say, "Oh, this sheet music is hard to write out. I'd be better off learning all these pieces by ear."

I think EVERYONE should develop a great ear for music, but that doesn't justify mediocrity.

Offbeat

[Ken Ho]

[quote=Dasein;4873996]
We're lucky to have any tabs at all considering the skill level required to actually make a transcription - it's no surprise some of them are incorrect - they're bloody hard to make and are a labour of love (and a product unique to the skill level of the transcriptor and the economic constraints they are working under). I remember when ALL there was available was piano scores.... we have it so easy today.

quote]


They are bloody hard to do, but everybody should be able to transcribe for themselves, including novice players ??
Do you not see the paradox here ??

[Dasein]

They are bloody hard to do, but everybody should be able to transcribe for themselves, including novice players ??
Do you not see the paradox here ??
No Paradox at all

Transcribe to play is a different skill set than transcribe to notation or tab. Kind of like speaking vs academic writing or writing.

[Ken Ho]

No Paradox at all

Transcribe to play is a different skill set than transcribe to notation or tab. Kind of like speaking vs academic writing or writing.

Sorry, going to have agree to disagree here. Yes, there is extra skillrequired to notate interval correctly, but that does not detract from the skill required to find the correct pitches and positions.

[UnderTheGroove]

As someone who has done transcriptions (on a small scale) for music instruction materials, here is my take:

Some of the errors are mistakes made by the person transcribing the material. Deadlines can be tight and some times our ears just don't hear things the as well as we would like. I have learned songs before and gone back to them weeks or months later and realized that I have something wrong. It can seem so obvious when I re-visit the song, but it felt correct when I originally worked on the music.

Other errors can be copying errors. This is going to happen just like typos can slip through in books and magazines.

As previously mentioned, some transcriptions are done by none guitar players. This can lead to issues with fingerings.

[doctorx]

While it's true tabs can help with tricky chord inversions or solo runs, I don't read them very well and rarely use them.

I haven't paid for music since the seventies, I figure things out by ear. I don't read music either, but I can read a chord chart. If I know the song in my head and have a chord chart I can pretty much play it on the spot unless it's overly complicated.

[Dasein]

Sorry, going to have agree to disagree here. Yes, there is extra skillrequired to notate interval correctly, but that does not detract from the skill required to find the correct pitches and positions.Gross generalization here but transcribing to a music notation system requires actual music notation ability - Beyond drawing a few chord shapes - now you're just being contrary. No soup for you.

[BMF Effects]

It took me awhile to find it but most appropriate.

Enjoy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOAY-zURlGA)

[offbeat]

It took me awhile to find it but most appropriate.

Enjoy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOAY-zURlGA)

THANK YOU!

One of the funniest clips I've ever seen, and perfect for this thread!

:D:D:D:D:AOK:D:D

Offbeat

[Ken Ho]

Gross generalization here but transcribing to a music notation system requires actual music notation ability - Beyond drawing a few chord shapes - now you're just being contrary. No soup for you.

Your daft. I said, yes, more skill is required, that skill being music notation ability. How is that contrary ?? Where did I say "chord shapes" ??
"Notate interval" means using standard notation, does it not ??

[hasserl]

So your in a band. You get a gig that is tomorrow night and for whatever reason, you need to play some song you don't know and you're barely aware of. You don't have 4 hours to sit down with a SlowDowner and learn the song's solos. What do you do?

You learn the basic structure and the signature riffs and the rest you improvise.

[triple_vee]

take tabs with a grain of salt. use your own ears to judge what's right. what tabs never do correctly is get the phrasing down right, so in the end, you'll still have to use your ear to get it right anyway.

e.g., 9 against 2 is basically a quarter note triplet with each triplet subdivided into another 3. but it's almost always notated 4 sixteenth notes + 3 sixteen notes and 2 32nd notes.

[Buddy Boy]

Finally someone with an answer I get.:AOKYou learn the basic structure and the signature riffs and the rest you improvise.

[Mandoboy]

Accurate transcription skills are hard earned. As many of us have found, there is a ton of inaccurate published transcription books. They can give you a head start, but you should always work with the recordings and make your own corrections as you go. In many cases, a huge percentage of the work has been done to some degree of accuracy to get you in the door.

I've been a professional transcriber since 1980, and can vouch for the fact that most publishers pay squat for transcription work, and when you boil down the hourly wage to the thousands of hours spent developing your craft...as Indiana Jones said toward the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark:

"DON'T LOOK AT IT, MARIAN!"

[bobbymack]

I think alot of them are inaccurate because the pay is bad and the "editors" in most cases can't tell right from wrong so it goes unchecked...

Only the guys like Aledort who take some pride in their work and/or have their name on it do the consistently accurate work.

[sixty2strat]

I agree ear is best. There is an ELP tune father xmas that has a TAB going around that usless. years ago proved to me that a few minutes with a CD is better ..BUT often get called for a fill in or an audition, and my large collection of LP's lacks the song, so use the tabe to rough it out from memory...did that with a Melissa Etheridge tune, learned the chord one key lick and after 100000000 plays on the radio, or in a bar or store I nailed it at a gig, like i had really learned it. Tab is great if you in a jam.

[StompBoxBlues]

Speculating-
But quite a while back real guitar tab was almost impossible to find. We has to make do with piano/vocal and chord charts. The fills and riff were written in the piano melody line, if at all. circa 1970
A tab 'transcription' may have been simply a method of playing what had been 'transcribed' based on the piano/vocal rendition of the tune i.e. you pass the piano sheet music to your staff guitar player and have him re-transcribe the piece as tab...done. BUT, not necessarily accurate to actual recorded performance. Buyer beware. Things have improved a lot although those old ones may still be kicking around. Just imo.

I remember that too! :NUTS

Like you mentioned, the clue would be the chord chart where you needed plastic man fingers to be able to fret the chords...it confused the hell out me when I was 13 and trying to learn a song.

I also remembe buying a book (this might have been when I discovered it was all bull) where, honest to god, they had Jimi Hendrix's "Voodoo Chile (slight return) (the one with the amazing wah opening..I always confuse the two) where it was totally just E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E for all the riffs in the verse....

I always thought (and think) I have a good ear for tones, and that I can hear the difference between a G note played on the first string, or second, or third, by the way they sound (surely I have made mistakes though) and generally found that the EASIEST way to play it in the context of where your fingers are before and after that particular note help you figure out where it is played, I also know that Hendrix wasn't the "fastest" guitarist notewise but his forte was shifting WHERE on the neck he was playing (among all the other abilities he had with improv, soloing, melodic and rythmic choices) he was known for that. Most other guitarists do the "logical" thing...if they are riffing at the fifth position, and suddenly the tab has you going to the 12th (but down a few strings) and then right back to the 5th a lot of times it is just a guess.

In fact, all the tab stuff I think is, but the professional TAB books I think are amazingly well done. The "on the net" TABS I find totally useless.

Then again, I deconstruct songs using my Tascam GT-1 and my brain telling me to go for the easiest available G note, depending on what came before and after that particluar note.

I also tend to try to work it all out for myself before even looking at a TAB. This seems to me to be the best way to do it because 1) either I am wrong, BUT I find an original way to play the thing, or 2) I can't get it totally and the TAB just makes perfect sense..."oh...THAT'S where he's playing that!".

Allman brothers (the three volume set) just blew me away in finding out what was going on in the songs, the two guitars interaction. I had THAT one all wrong...and the TAB book really taught me what a two-guitar band could do to get the right sound.

[rogwerks]

When I first saw "tab", written for guitar of course, (tablature?? sp.),
(WAY BACK IN THE DAY!!)

"I thought why dont' guitarist just learn how to read music..."

I guess they still haven't...

Of course this is coming from a Classically Trained Symphonic/Jazz Trombonist!

es all...

[Ken Ho]

take tabs with a grain of salt. use your own ears to judge what's right. what tabs never do correctly is get the phrasing down right, so in the end, you'll still have to use your ear to get it right anyway.

e.g., 9 against 2 is basically a quarter note triplet with each triplet subdivided into another 3. but it's almost always notated 4 sixteenth notes + 3 sixteen notes and 2 32nd notes.

That's a broad brush you are painting with there, and you've slopped your paint on places that don't deserve it.
I have many tabs which notate phrasing exactly, including many triplets, quintuplets, sextuplets, and other tuplets beyond my weird.

[StompBoxBlues]

When I first saw "tab", written for guitar of course, (tablature?? sp.),
(WAY BACK IN THE DAY!!)

"I thought why dont' guitarist just learn how to read music..."

I guess they still haven't...

Of course this is coming from a Classically Trained Symphonic/Jazz Trombonist!

es all...

Without getting into a big thing..."the music" wouldn't tell you a thing about WHERE the notes are played though would it?

Tab is more exacting as far as that goes, and less exact as far as timing goes..most of us know the timing of the thing we are trying to learn exactly, but are unsure where on the neck, etc...in fact JUST like the OP mentioned..

[Ken Ho]

When I first saw "tab", written for guitar of course, (tablature?? sp.),
(WAY BACK IN THE DAY!!)

"I thought why dont' guitarist just learn how to read music..."

I guess they still haven't...

Of course this is coming from a Classically Trained Symphonic/Jazz Trombonist!

es all...

Ah dude, "standard notation is not the only form of "readable music". It may be teh dominant form, but it does not have exclusive rights.
Tab just happens to be easier and more intuitive for rock guitar. That would be the reason why it is so popular with rock guitarists.
It is less useful for a classically trained trombomist, for example. But then so is a distortion pedal.
Combine tab with standard notation, as most published tabs do, and then scribble performance notes all over the page, and bingo, everyone is happy.

[MickeyJi]

I remember a Hendrix tab book I had in the seventies. The first bars of Voodoo Chile apparently were to be played with an open E chord with the additional instruction to "strum vigorously" ...:crazy:banana

[Cymbaline]

Ah yes, tab books in the 70's. My favorite....Hendrix for easy piano :roll

And all of the songs are in C.

[StompBoxBlues]

I remember a Hendrix tab book I had in the seventies. The first bars of Voodoo Chile apparently were to be played with an open E chord with the additional instruction to "strum vigorously" ...:crazy:banana

I'm pretty sure that was the same one I mentioned :love: There weren't THAT many of them. Had a Dylan book too with impossible to finger the chords...

[Mandoboy]

The most inaccurate stuff usually doesn't have an author's name attached. There are some trustworthy names out there.

The lack of accuracy in published books hasn't hurt my biz as transcriber for hire.

[plexistack]

They probably figure that most people who need tabs won't know the difference anyhow, and the people with a good enough ear to tell would just learn by ear instead.

[Mandoboy]

I don't think most of 'em think that far, actually.

[Gas-man]

I have a large collection of tab I keep as a time-saving device for learning new material.

When I was 22 I could spend all day learning Physical Graffitti (and I did). But with kids, one of those "job" things, etc. any time I can save is huge.

[lhallam]

I actually call that guitar playing. If you don't have the time, take up another hobby.

What kind of answer is that?

The point is people are paying good money for poor quality.

The second point is that some people actually learn the skill of how to read music nomenclature for a variety of reasons.

OK, I've editted this since more posts have made your point clearer. Pretty flip answer though.

Regardless, people have every right to complain about poor quality and just accepting it with some kind of excuses doesn't help.

[lhallam]

I have a large collection of tab I keep as a time-saving device for learning new material.

When I was 22 I could spend all day learning Physical Graffitti (and I did). But with kids, one of those "job" things, etc. any time I can save is huge.

Exactly.

[semi-hollowbody]

I actually call that guitar playing. If you don't have the time, take up another hobby.
:facepalm
So in the great grand God-given rule book on playing guitar, tabulature is prohibited?? Wow, Guitar center should have told me:o

[RCCola]

Kind of OT, but: Any reason you guys don't want to learn reading music?

It's really not that much difficult than learning tabs and helps you learn where notes are on the fretboard (among other things). It's also really not an option (to not learn to read music), at some point.

I was against reading music for the longest time (hey, I already know tabs! and Jimi didn't know how to read music!!) and people were always telling me I should learn. They were right. It opens up so much for you musically.

[crzyfngers]

ask wolf marshall. he's done everybody's song wrong. some folks think they have a great ear and they stop listening. ego is a bitch.