The Lemon Song

[leftyaxeslinger]

What the hell is going on there?

It's long been one of my favorite Zep rockers and that tone! Nasty, spitty, boxy...

Anybody know what Page used to track the fuzzy distorted parts, like the intro and the solo chord progression?

[blood5150]

tele, treble booster. vox????

maybe a supro?

[Ulysses]

Tonebender

[EL34]

I love that guitar tone! It's definitely a small amp (supro?) being slammed with a Tonbender MkII - Page probably rode the volume knob on his guitar to get those less saturated tones in the song.

[Tadams]

It sounds like a half-cocked wah to me

[GuitslingerTim]

John Paul Jones' bass playing on The Lemon Song is some of my favorite, and worth mentioning in this thread; it really showcases Jones' extraordinary ability, which is often hard to recognize sandwiched between Bonham's thunderous drumming, and Page's smoking guitar.

[jimmybcool]

The thread header started me laughing :roll

Picture if you will a 15 year old lad in 1970 - ME. Growing up in the bible belt. I have just purchased my FIRST rock album. Led Zep II. I am stoked. I take it home. My mother is the town piano teacher and very musically inclined (college music grad etc). Sooooo, she wants to hear what music I like so much I will lay down my hoarded money to buy it. :phones

So we are listening. Mom doesn't like Whole lotta love. :dunno

What is and what should never be she actually finds interesting. :huh

Lemon song. Ahhhh. She grabs that album off the turntable at "the way you squeeze my lemon you make the juice run down my leg" and snaps it in half. :nono

I was in deep shit for months :roll

[leftyaxeslinger]

John Paul Jones' bass playing on The Lemon Song is some of my favorite, and worth mentioning in this thread; it really showcases Jones' extraordinary ability, which is often hard to recognize sandwiched between Bonham's thunderous drumming, and Page's smoking guitar.

Agree. JPJ is a monster.

Can't put my finger on this tone. I used my Rice Tele, a Retroman Lola and a 71 SF Princeton reverb and couldn't really get into the ballpark. I mean I was sorta there....I think there is some cool mic-ing and studio wizardry going on there too. The Lola couldn't get that tight even with the vol rolled off a little.

But the tone I DID nail was "I Can't Quit You Babe" - Rice Tele > OCD (more like a boost with slight grit) > EP3 set to slapback > Princeton.

Oh, and while I'm at it - The bass drum work on "I Can't Quit You Babe" is INSANE. I mean they really did take the blues to a new level.

[cugel]

the intro of lemon song is perfect
sounds like a big billow of smoke to me
okk of topic but what about getting the tone on 'levee breaks

[leftyaxeslinger]

the intro of lemon song is perfect
sounds like a big billow of smoke to me
okk of topic but what about getting the tone on 'levee breaks

I know that one has a phaser in there somewhere, probably a phase 90? Did they even make them then? Sounds maybe like the Danelectro gtr? Not sure of the amp. Oh and you'll need a slide!

[karmadave]

Great tune, even if it is a blatant rip off of Howlin' Wolf's 'Killing Floor'. Sounds like Page is playing a Les Paul, on the neck pickup, through his Supro amp...

-KD

[cugel]

I know that one has a phaser in there somewhere, probably a phase 90? Did they even make them then? Sounds maybe like the Danelectro gtr? Not sure of the amp. Oh and you'll need a slide!


what gets me with Levee is that it sounds like he's totally getting the guitar to scream bloody murder as if he's killing the thing in one of the solos
25 years and i have never heard anything like it
genious production

[The_Whale]

The thread header started me laughing :roll

Picture if you will a 15 year old lad in 1970 - ME.

I think I bought my copy when I was 15 too (in 1984).

I remember being very impressed at the time, and still am. It's the best song on the album.

[OaklandA]

Probably used the Dragon Telecaster through a Rangemaster through a Supro. My guess from what Page has said in a few interviews over the years.

He used the Supro almost exclusively on LZ 2. He also used a Marshall on some tracks...I'll bet that's what you hear humming on Heartbreaker. He also used the Dragon Tele a lot on that album....actually quite a bit on the first four albums, almost exclusively on the first two. The lead on "Stairway To Heaven" etc. You know the old saw...."that Telecaster has been responsible for the sale of more Les Pauls than anything else".

He used the Tonebender quite a bit, but also used a Rangemaster. On Lemon Song it sure sounds like a treble booster.

I would bet the farm that the amp is a Supro. The other stuff is a guess based on things he and others have recalled from the sessions. On "Levee" they had extra mic's placed in the hallway.

I've come real close with a Tele through a treble booster through a 5F1 clone.

On the Analogman site I believe they have someone playing something through their version of the Rangemaster and it sounds pretty close.

[darth_vader]

I reckon this is my favorite version of The Lemon Song ever recorded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79PVlXAyCac

[devilrob1979]

Also keep in mind that "When the Levee Breaks" was originally recorded in open G and the tape was slowed down to bring it down to Open F. Page was a genius.

[Lumpy's Tone Shop]

It was more than likely the Vox UL4120 and a Marshall. Page did say he had a Vox Super Beatle for II however more and more evidence points the the Vox 4120 being the Vox Page is referring to...
-Page says he got the Super Beatles from his Yardbird days. He's never pictured with a Super Beatle during the Yardbirds, only an AC100 and you guessed it, a Vox UL head.

-Just days prior to Moby Dick, Whole Lotta Love, and The Lemon Song being recorded he has the Vox UL4120 at Rose Palace, he also had it during the first American tour as well.

-Fast forwarding to June '69, there are two pictures of him with the UL4120 at Olympic Studios, along with a Marshall.

Having said that, a Super Beatle with the Mid Range Boost in the right setting can get close to The Lemon Song, the MRB circuit was actually used to design the common wah circuit. Problem I had with the SB when I tried one was the fuzz, it's silicon based and to me it doesn't sound like LZII. The fuzz on the UL4120 is germanium based.

As far as a Supro, Tonebender, Rangemaster and Tele go... I don't hear a Supro anywhere on II. Keep in mind they were still on tour at the time, not sure if he felt like dragging it around. Page never mentions using a Supro on II for that matter.

Don't hear the Tonebender anywhere on II... Page claimed the "amp's distorting" in an interview once when asked about II. As I mentioned the fuzz on the Voxes mentioned is built in. Yes he still had the MKII at the time, the April Fillmore shows are no doubt fuzzy, highly arguable those shows were the 4120 though, no pictures unfortunately.

Rangemaster... no proof he ever had one. When he wanted a treble boost his wah seemed to be the go to thing, at the time he was the Vox Grey wah.

Tele... well he still was using it at the time along with the Les Paul he got a little over a week prior from Walsh. Page only claims the Les Paul for II though.

Just some food for thought... :)

[andybaylor]

It was more than likely the Vox UL4120 and a Marshall. Page did say he had a Vox Super Beatle for II however more and more evidence points the the Vox 4120 being the Vox Page is referring to...
-Page says he got the Super Beatles from his Yardbird days. He's never pictured with a Super Beatle during the Yardbirds, only an AC100 and you guessed it, a Vox UL head.

-Just days prior to Moby Dick, Whole Lotta Love, and The Lemon Song being recorded he has the Vox UL4120 at Rose Palace, he also had it during the first American tour as well.

-Fast forwarding to June '69, there are two pictures of him with the UL4120 at Olympic Studios, along with a Marshall.

Having said that, a Super Beatle with the Mid Range Boost in the right setting can get close to The Lemon Song, the MRB circuit was actually used to design the common wah circuit. Problem I had with the SB when I tried one was the fuzz, it's silicon based and to me it doesn't sound like LZII. The fuzz on the UL4120 is germanium based.

As far as a Supro, Tonebender, Rangemaster and Tele go... I don't hear a Supro anywhere on II. Keep in mind they were still on tour at the time, not sure if he felt like dragging it around. Page never mentions using a Supro on II for that matter.

Don't hear the Tonebender anywhere on II... Page claimed the "amp's distorting" in an interview once when asked about II. As I mentioned the fuzz on the Voxes mentioned is built in. Yes he still had the MKII at the time, the April Fillmore shows are no doubt fuzzy, highly arguable those shows were the 4120 though, no pictures unfortunately.

Rangemaster... no proof he ever had one. When he wanted a treble boost his wah seemed to be the go to thing, at the time he was the Vox Grey wah.

Tele... well he still was using it at the time along with the Les Paul he got a little over a week prior from Walsh. Page only claims the Les Paul for II though.

Just some food for thought... :)

GREAT FIRST POST KOSMICBLUES !!!!!

Welcome!

[Lumpy's Tone Shop]

I also thought it was the 7120 at first but if look closely Page's didn't have enough knobs, I think the jacks were throwing people off. Looks like I was wrong about the ULs using germanium transistors too... not sure why I thought that. :NUTS

I know of a 4120 for sale for $3500 if you want buy it see if sounds Pagey... :p

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/ledzeppy/JIMMYPAGEA.jpg

One more thing on the Tele and LZII... there is that story of Heartbreaker minus the solo being laid down in January with the Tele through the Rickenbackers. If thats is true, Page has obviously never mentioned it over the years so who knows... parts of II might be have seen a little Tele action.

GREAT FIRST POST KOSMICBLUES !!!!!

Welcome!

Thanks happy to be here. :)

[AS193]

Lemon song. Ahhhh. She grabs that album off the turntable at "the way you squeeze my lemon you make the juice run down my leg" and snaps it in half. :nono

I was in deep shit for months :roll

They stole those lyrics from an old blues tune.

[The Golden Boy]

She grabs that album off the turntable at "the way you squeeze my lemon you make the juice run down my leg" and snaps it in half. :nono

I was in deep shit for months :roll

Almost the same thing for a 10 year old kid in 1979 having their mother finding that you purchased Get The Knack. The phrase "who told you you could buy this?" still echoes in my head. Same thing happened a year or so later with John Lennon's Double Fantasy.

[Lightningrt]

See below for more JP info. I spend ages reading it.

Enjoy:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=889990

[Lightningrt]

One more thing on the Tele and LZII... there is that story of Heartbreaker minus the solo being laid down in January with the Tele through the Rickenbackers. If thats is true, Page has obviously never mentioned it over the years so who knows... parts of II might be have seen a little Tele action.



Yeah didn't he record the solo to HB in the US while on tour with his Les Paul? It's slightly off pitch to the rest of the song too.

[loudboy]

True, that's the word on the street...Tele into a Rickenbacker Transonic for Heartbreaker rhythm sections here in the States and then a Les Paul into a Marshall for the unaccompanied solo back in London.

It's believable to me becuase that tone is so unique.

I always use that tone as the definitive LP/Marshall tone. Right down to the pick-chirps and the sound of the hiss of those 4-holers.

I had a '73 1987 50-watter > 1968 cab, and an SG back then, and it was VERY easy to nail that tone, absolutely.

My Fulltone Soulbender really nailed the sound of the solo that follows, after the band kicks in.

[Bussman]

When the Levee Breaks was written by Memphis Minnie and her husband Joe McCoy back in the 30s I believe ... so no rip off, it was a cover ....

Lemon Song was ripped off of Howlin' Wolf, not When the Levee Breaks. Page's little lead breaks even quote the horns in the original note for note.

[cugel]

Also keep in mind that "When the Levee Breaks" was originally recorded in open G and the tape was slowed down to bring it down to Open F. Page was a genius.


i had no friggin idea
i guess thats a big part of making it sound so swampy and nasty

[jimmybcool]

I think I bought my copy when I was 15 too (in 1984).

I remember being very impressed at the time, and still am. It's the best song on the album.

Aren't any really bad songs on the album. I had to sneak out and buy another one and keep it hidden from mom. Oh no, mom is coming for Christmas. Hide my iTunes library and iMacs :)

[jimmybcool]

They stole those lyrics from an old blues tune.

Do you know the name of the song? I'd love to hear the original.

In that direction, was told that Buddy Guy played here in Phoenix this weekend and has a bit of a dirty mouth when on stage. Anyone ever hear this?

[jimmybcool]

Almost the same thing for a 10 year old kid in 1979 having their mother finding that you purchased Get The Knack. The phrase "who told you you could buy this?" still echoes in my head. Same thing happened a year or so later with John Lennon's Double Fantasy.

Yeah, but I'm 53 now and wondering if I need to hide my stuff when she comes in December :jo

[leftyaxeslinger]

Do you know the name of the song? I'd love to hear the original.

In that direction, was told that Buddy Guy played here in Phoenix this weekend and has a bit of a dirty mouth when on stage. Anyone ever hear this?

Killing Floor, wasn't it?

[devilrob1979]

The lyrics for the Lemon Song are a combination of "Killing Floor" and "Travelling Riverside Blues."

[Lumpy's Tone Shop]

See below for more JP info. I spend ages reading it.

Enjoy:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=889990

I'm the guy that did that write up :D Nice to see it's getting around now, I noticed the Led-Zeppelin.org site has at least started to update their info with mine, I was the one that added the "referring to the Dragon Tele" in the Jimmy Page quote on his Telecaster, so clearly they've been reading my stuff. :)

[seiko]

...and who knows where Skip James got it from and so on and so forth. That's why those accusations never lead anywhere....because the blues are a tradition that have been passed down much like folk music. The sooner people accept that notion and just enjoy the music for what it is, the better.

Actually Skip James' "Hard Time Killing Floor Blues" bears no relation musically with Howling Wolf's "Killing Floor" in fact about all they share is the use of the words "killing floor." Compare and contrast:

Skip James: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv-_mzVBSF8

Howling Wolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_VVsZ4rv2w

In no way could you say that Chester Burnett took that song from Skip James, its not remotely the same song, one listen proves it. Whereas the "Lemon Song" is indupitably "Killing Floor."

Led Zeppelin continually used entire songs, choice riffs and lyrics without credit, whether those artists came from some kind of blues tradition or not, there's no way around it, doesn't mean they didn't make it sound great, but they surely did pilfer liberally. They were pretty much a human sample machine on the first four albums, so it was pretty funny that their management got so ansty in the early days of rap. They were just following in the Lep tradition!

[Bussman]

...and who knows where Skip James got it from and so on and so forth. That's why those accusations never lead anywhere...

Those accusations have given proper compensation and credit to Chester Burnett, Willie Dixon, Anne Bredon and others...


In no way could you say that Chester Burnett took that song from Skip James, its not remotely the same song, one listen proves it. Whereas the "Lemon Song" is indupitably "Killing Floor." ...

Yes, I agree. Some people think a quick google search makes them musicologists... I understand there are grown men on this board who love Jimmy Page more than their wives, but facts are facts.

I enjoy Led Zep's music to this day. It doesn't prevent me from questioning their ethics and why they credited some of their sources and left themselves open to litigation on others.

[Lightningrt]

I'm the guy that did that write up :D Nice to see it's getting around now, I noticed the Led-Zeppelin.org site has at least started to update their info with mine, I was the one that added the "referring to the Dragon Tele" in the Jimmy Page quote on his Telecaster, so clearly they've been reading my stuff. :)

I suspected it was. It's the most thorough breakdown [with fantastic pictures as well] that I've seen. You really do read a lot of cr8p about JP, mainly because of his reticence for so long and keeping the sense of mystery that was Zep, so it's a real breath of fresh air to read something so good. Good job.

Rob

[roknfnrol]

Def the tele or les paul with a rangemaster.

[shane88]

The lyrics for the Lemon Song are a combination of "Killing Floor" and "Travelling Riverside Blues."
yes + zep wre just following the blues tradition on takin other's tunes and turning them into something else
a lot of the stuff on zep II is a giant leap from the originals though .... ie whole lotta love
zep used to play many blues songs in the middle of dazed + confused etc live
also i have a version of nobody's fault but mine by blind willie johnson from 1927
as far as the gear goes i reckon you are puttin far more thought into it than page did..... the biggest impact on the sound is JIMMY PAGE

[heavysoul]

I'm the guy that did that write up :D Nice to see it's getting around now, I noticed the Led-Zeppelin.org site has at least started to update their info with mine, I was the one that added the "referring to the Dragon Tele" in the Jimmy Page quote on his Telecaster, so clearly they've been reading my stuff. :)


thanks for this, as a huge zep fan, i've scoured books, mags, and websites researching on pagey's gear but this is by far the most in depth.

[Rockinrob86]

someone was asking earlier about levee, Page used a fender electric 12 on that song. I dont remember where I got that info ( I believe it was the guitar world legends magazine) but I definitely remember seeing it.