Guitar And Hearing Loss Question

[Kyle vs. Guitar]

Alright guys, here's a question for ya. I play guitar at my home at about the same volume all the time. I don't play loud enough to cause ringing in my ears after I'm finished. Other members of my family think it's too loud and will hurt my hearing, but I've been playing at about the same volume for at least a year or so and I haven't noticed any decrease to my hearing (which would be evidenced by having to turn up music louder when I'm in the car or listening on headphones. By the way, I play guitar a lot louder than I listen to music!) So the question is, will playing at this volume damage my hearing continuously over time, or would I have to turn it up louder to cause damage?

By way of reference, I play a Jazzmaster (with low-output pickups) into a Deluxe Reverb reissue, volume turned up to about 2.5 and overdrive pedals roughly matched to the loudness of the clean sound when I hit a chord with medium-hard touch. This really doesn't seem loud at all in the grand scheme of things, but I'd like some input.

[Dr Git]

I have some hearing loss but my situation is a bit different. I've been playing guitar for like 35 years, off and on, and have gigged for about 10 of them. I think a lot of the guys are going to have a vague idea for you, since its hard to understand what volume your talking about. I've lost approx 10% in 35 years and I use to, and sometimes still play pretty loud. I think you'll be fine

[Tone_Terrific]

'Turn it down before you go deaf!'- a 'polite' way af saying we'd rather not hear you.

There can be some truth in that (my ears are not good), but if your ears are not ringing and your hours of exposure are limited I would expect no problem, but you can look up the recommended exposure levels yourself for some background info.

[darth_vader]

Just because your ears aren't ringing afterwards doesn't mean it's not hurting your years, but without hearing the volume myself it's hard to make a call either way. I've been practicing the last couple years at a volume that's loud but not loud enough to get ringing, and I'm stating to think that I'm just losing a little bit of hearing. Be careful, it can sneak up on you so gradually that you don't even realise it's happening until it's too late!

I agree about the complaints though. I used to get the "you'll hurt your hearing" line from my dad all the time, just because he wanted me to stop playing.

[gtrnstuff]

a db meter from Radio Shack is less than $50, AFAIK. Worth it to save your hearing. I wish I'd been more careful and less macho about amp volume back in the day. Maybe I'd still be able to understand dialog in the movies and hear what my wife is saying when her head's turned.

[MichaelThomas]

I'd reccomend at least two visits to the Audiologist yearly, they can test for hearing loss, it's super quick and not that expensive. I had severe pain in my ears but it was due to fluid build-up, we did the test and there was no sign of hearing loss. After that I could rest easy at night.

[TieDyedDevil]

It doesn't take extreme volumes to damage your ears. It's a cumulative effect of loudness and duration. Go get that Radio Shack meter, then refer to this chart:

http://psg.com/~dlamkins/lamkins-guitar/Tools/noise-exposure.html

Do a bit of research, too. Don't think that you can get away with *just* paying attention to your amp's volume. Other sounds in your environment (loud TV, traffic, power tools, etc.) contribute to your exposure.

FWIW, I'll bet that the level in your room is between 94 and 100 dB. That gives you somewhere between 15 and 60 minutes of safe exposure time per day, assuming that everything else in your environment is whisper quiet. Bottom line: guitar amps are (for purposes of hearing health) loud even when they're not cranked to the max.

Finally, even if you don't bother with everything else I've laid out for you, do this one thing: go to an audiologist and get fitted for musicians earplugs. It'll cost you $200 give or take - all inclusive (exam, fitting and plugs). Go for the 15 dB attenuation to start (you'll have a choice of 9 dB, 15 dB or 25 db). The 15 dB is the most neutral-sounding of the three. They're nothing like foam earplugs or the one-size-fits-all Hearos or ER-20s. You'll barely notice that you're wearing them, except everthing is quieter.

To see what the plugs will do for your safe exposure time, refer to the chart and subtract the attenuation of the plugs from the sound level in the room. For example, if you measure the room at 100 dB and your're wearing 15 dB plugs, your safe exposure time is from the 85 dB row on the chart.

Oh, and about your family's complaints... 60 to 65 dB is considered "normal" conversational volume. If they measure higher than 65 dB in their room while you're playing in your room, they have a valid complaint.

[Tone_Terrific]

Oh, and about your family's complaints... 60 to 65 dB is considered "normal" conversational volume. If they measure higher than 65 dB in their room while you're playing in your room, they have a valid complaint.

Obviously, acoustic guitars are about all that human beings can be exposed to without risk. Lay off fatty foods, tap water, city air, and vehicles, in general, too.

[Turbo Gerbil]

how old are you? I've listened to music fairly loud, but not "earsplitting" in general, all my life, and have never played guitar at particularly "deafening" levels either, but now at 45 I have a touch of tinnitus in my left ear. It doesn't take "ringing in you ear after playing" levels to eventually cause damage, but it can take a while.

[rockinlespaul]

Front row at Tesla last night definetely did some collateral damage to my ear.:o

[TieDyedDevil]

Obviously, acoustic guitars are about all that human beings can be exposed to without risk. Lay off fatty foods, tap water, city air, and vehicles, in general, too.

Well, the portion of my post that you responded to was about what might be considered *intrusive* - not harmful - levels within a shared dwelling; I'll certainly stand by the advice to have some consideration for others in a shared dwelling. Our ears are very adaptable to sound exposure. Give `em 100 dB for a few minutes and you end up thinking, "this isn't *that* loud". Meanwhile the rest of the family, isolated only by a couple layers of thin drywall and a four-inch air space, can't carry on with their normal activities.

As far as safe exposure goes, all I'm doing is pointing to guidelines and offering advice. Life is full of risks. We all take chances where we feel that the reward is greater than the risk. I don't propose to prevent you or anyone else from taking risks as you wish.

Hearing loss is a particularly insidious problem for people who enjoy making music. The effects are gradual, cumulative and *irreversible*. Modern medicine has remedies for diseases of the heart, lungs, liver and other major organs, and can remediate many kinds of severe physical trauma.

When it comes to hearing loss, you're on your own. Modern medicine won't come to your rescue. A set of $200 earplugs, though, will prevent the damage without affecting your enjoyment of music.

[FeloniousBishop]

I had enough exposure when I was younger that just 30 minutes of playing not that loud on a Strat through a Fender amp in the back room of house will make my ears ring for days. It's not even that loud.

I believe that playing with a clean sound is more damaging to the ears because the peak sound levels are higher than with a higher gain sound. I can play louder overall on my other rig (Les Paul and higher gain amp) with less ringing afterwards. Country licks hit my ears the worst.

My ears pretty much never completely stop ringing all the way. That's one of the main reasons I stopped playing in bands, my Grandad was pretty deaf in the end and he never had the exposure I did.

I don't know that a Radio Shack meter will accurately record the peak levels for you (I have one of those meters). I have a pretty percussive string attack though.

[Tone_Terrific]

When it comes to hearing loss, you're on your own. Modern medicine won't come to your rescue. A set of $200 earplugs, though, will prevent the damage without affecting your enjoyment of music.

There is a certain irony in using earplugs in the bedroom, and thanks to Youtube I now realize that there a many actual bedroom players... more of a cellar dude myself...anyhoo... using plugs to lower the level because you want it loud is only going to annoy the family more as you now turn up to hear yourself. Headphones, with ambient effects are more effective if external sound level is a problem, of course, they can kill your ears, too. But, there is no point in having the best ears in the graveyard, just don't use them up too soon.

[TieDyedDevil]

I certainly recognize that irony. :roll

Headphones are great if you really *must* get that 110+ dB experience. But headphones just don't do it for me when I'm playing guitar. I want to hear *the room*. It bugs me that when I'm wearing headphones the virtual room turns with me when I turn my head. :dunno

[mc5nrg]

Townshend blew his ears out combining headphones and alcohol.

[Bo Faulkner]

Townshend blew his ears out combining headphones and alcohol.

I didnt know that! When I was a teen I passed out more than once with headphones on wide open ... :Spank Woke up in the middle of the night with the headphones tossed to the side blaring and ears greatly ringing. I have done construction for 20 years .. coupled with playing in bands and cranking my amps around the house I have pretty much constant ringing

[tomkatzz]

My guess is you're damaging/have damaged your hearing. It can't be repaired and will only get worse.

Facts on noise levels:
Decibels measure sound pressure and are logarithmic. That means that only a 3db increase almost doubles sound pressure, a 6db increase quadruples sound pressure, etc.


Gradual hearing loss may occur after prolonged exposure to 90 decibels or above.

Exposure to 100 decibels for more than 15 minutes can cause hearing loss.

Exposure to 110 decibels for more than a minute can cause permanent hearing loss.

At 140 dBA noise causes immediate injury to almost any unprotected ear.

There is also the more extreme ‘acoustic trauma’, which is an immediate loss of hearing after a sudden, exceptionally loud noise such as an explosion.

From: http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu...aring-loss.cfm (http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/news/Archives03/noise-induced-hearing-loss.cfm)

“When someone goes to a concert, cuts grass or runs a power saw, they can suffer from NIHL,” said Dr. George Hashisaki, assistant professor of otolaryngology at the University of Virginia Health System. “Afterwards, if their hearing is muffled or their ears are ringing, they have suffered NIHL. Even if their hearing comes back to what they perceive as normal, a small part of that hearing loss is permanent."

Comparative noise levels and corresponding damage
12 gauge shotgun 165 dB Instant damage
Jet engine taking off 140 dB Instant damage
Thunder/Ambulance siren 119 dB 3 minutes
Hammer drill 113 dB 15 minutes
Chain saw/Earphones/Concert 110 dB 30 minutes
Bull Dozer 105 dB 1 hour
Tractor/Power tools 96 dB 4 hour
Hairdryer/lawnmower 90 dB 8 hours

[90wreck]

Unless your are playing full/half stacks at extreme volumes, or maybe a Twin 2-4 nights a week using stage volume only (no mics) for years.....You can blame the drummers cymbals for most of your hearing loss......You can take that to the bank.(IMO of course)
Use plugs whenever possible...Hard for me to use them onstage.
Rehearsals...yes.
Listening to other bands...yes.
Teching for Mark Farner with 2 Twins on 6-7....:crazy....yes.
I still believe the majority comes from onstage next to the cymbals unless you have a brutal guitar rig blasting the majority of your life.
"Mark............Huh?.......":dunno
Just sayin'

[TieDyedDevil]

Unless your are playing full/half stacks at extreme volumes, or maybe a Twin 2-4 nights a week using stage volume only (no mics) for years.....You can blame the drummers cymbals for most of your hearing loss......You can take that to the bank.(IMO of course)

Absolutely not true. OK, the part about cymbals is true, but...

You don't have to crank a high-powered amp over a period of years in order to experience hearing loss. Even a very modest amp (a Champ-style amp through a modern speaker, for example) can push 100 dB. In a small room you don't get a noticeable fall-off in SPL with distance. Take a look up a couple posts or so. Safe exposure at 100 dB is measured in minutes...

[townsend]

Hearing loss is a particularly insidious problem for people who enjoy making music. The effects are gradual, cumulative and *irreversible*. Modern medicine has remedies for diseases of the heart, lungs, liver and other major organs, and can remediate many kinds of severe physical trauma.

When it comes to hearing loss, you're on your own. Modern medicine won't come to your rescue. A set of $200 earplugs, though, will prevent the damage without affecting your enjoyment of music.

Well put.

[bc-cosmo]

I think everybody's a little different in their susceptibility to this... I have had constant tinnitus for many years--my vote is with 90Wreck on the cymbals--and now even playing an acoustic guitar with a percussive attack causes spikes that hurt. I got musicians' plugs a year ago, and they do offer some protection. But if your ears already ring like mine, the plugs--which attenuate more highs than lows--will provide you with a rather disorienting mix of bass, low-mid hash, and the siren-like wail of your own ears filling out the high end.

So best advice to those who do not yet have this condition: know that it's real, it does accrue over time, and start wearing those plugs early, while you still have some high-frequency hearing to protect.

[Jaradc]

Ok im actually going to school for sound engineering, and i know the answer too this. If you have the ability to determine SPL or dB its...

90 dB for 8 Hours per day

every 2 dB over 90dB, the hours per day is reduced by half,
so 92 dB can only be listened to for 4 hours per day and so on

Basically if you cant hear yourself talking over the noise, its too loud.

Keep in mind, this is regarding monitoring in a tracking room. But it should count for the same thing. Plus this regards damage to ears over a long period of time.

BUY EARPLUGS!

[Ken Ho]

Interesting thread and I'm not disouting that we all have to protect our ears, but there are a few points missing.
Driving a car with the window down, also a great way to go deaf.
Townshend's hearing loss was mostly to do wiht the dynamite on stage, but everything else would have sent him deaf if the dynamite did not.
Good old ahrdening of the arteries is another significant but oft overlooked cause of hearing loss too. The cochlear artery is wee and partial blockage causes hearing loss in the late forties to early fifties often.
These days motor vehicles and chain sawa etc are nicely noise controlled at least in Europe and we use their standards here in Oz. 77 dB. Exceptions being race cars/bikes/boats and twats on Harleys who still think their passage through a neighbourhood can be announced at massive dB levels. They defienitly fail the, "if I can't talk/yell/scream over it, it's too loud test.
Power tools, not so nice. I got ringing form a hammer drill once, yuk !!!!
I/ve been playing at night at the OP's described level for a few years now, with no noticeable hearing loss, but the rest of my life has little or no noise risk, other than I like to drive with my car window down, though I do wind it up at highway speeds, cos I can feel it sending me deaf. Lotas deaf dogs from that.
Lastly I agree with the suggestion that clean tones are worse. I find gainy sounds vgive pleasurable harmonics at modest levels, whereas to get a nice clean tone, I have to crank stuff.
It took me ages to work out why everyone here says they must crank amps for good tone, and I think this is why. Refer to my sinking thread on "harmonically rich cleans", which is an oxymoron. Oh sweet distortion, save my ears from perdition !!
Ironic , hey ???