Airline breaks my Les Paul!!!!

[jjboogie]

I just had a short international tour. Coming home from Dubai we had to fly to London Heathrow. I got London for a layover and opened my guitar case to find my Les Paul snapped just above the nut! There was absolutely no damage to the case and I loosened my strings big time. It was in an SKB case and fit real snug so the guitar did not move around.

I believe someone might have opened the case and acciddently dropped the guitar or something....I don't know....I filed a claim with the airline and am waiting for a reply. They were initially really rude and said "How do we know it wasn't broken before you got on the plane?" UGH!!!!

Does anyone have any experience like this? Any suggestions or input?

By the way it was Emirates Airlines which is actually an airline that I really like until this happened.

Thanks
jj

[Gas-man]

Was it a flight case?

If it was a regular guitar case, lesson learned.

[mcb]

Sorry to hear it man. That sucks.

It is likely that unless you had something stuff around the headstock tight it experience a whiplash effect from either being dropped or someone could have stood the case upright and knock it over.

I've heard of this being quite common with LPs. If this is the case, a flight case wouldn't have helped much. The headstock needs to be supported. I sandwich mine with newspaper so that it the case is just a tad snug when I close it.

[kldonegan]

Lose strings are a bad idea, too. String tension keeps the headstock from flying backwards and snapping like yours probably did. Supporting it and keeping tension on it will help a ton...

[jjboogie]

Wow...that is the exact opposite of what I was always told. On my Australian tour this past January I forgot to loosen the strings on my ES 335 and the neck had bowed a bit and I had to reset it on the fly.

Interesting thought though....I would like to hear if anyone else agrees.

[AlexF]

loose strings are a must on airtravel. sadly whiplash is enough to snap a paul headstock, particularly if it has grover type machines. the only answer is to wrap the headstock so it absolutely cant move inside the case.
Al

[Ed DeGenaro]

loose strings are a must on airtravel. sadly whiplash is enough to snap a paul headstock, particularly if it has grover type machines. the only answer is to wrap the headstock so it absolutely cant move inside the case.
Al
FWIW, I specify my guitars be shipped, ground and/or air with strings at tension.

[kldonegan]

I've had to check guitars several times, and haven't ever loosened the strings... I'm doing some reading about it right now, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. So, I could be right or wrong... It seems like I've seen more than one manufacturer say that taking the tension off of the headstock is a bad thing in transit. Here's an article from Gibson's website that says to loosen the strings on a mahogany necked guitar only one whole step and not at all on a maple necked guitar:

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Loosen%20Up%20and%20Fly%20Right_%20Tips/

Who knows...

[kldonegan]

...sadly whiplash is enough to snap a paul headstock, particularly if it has grover type machines...
Al

This is why I think string tension is a must. What's there to equal out that whiplash force if you've got no tension on the headstock.

FWIW, I shipped a Standard last week and it made it fine... tuned to pitch.

[jjboogie]

This is why I think string tension is a must. What's there to equal out that whiplash force if you've got no tension on the headstock.

FWIW, I shipped a Standard last week and it made it fine... tuned to pitch.


Makes sense

[kldonegan]

I do pad the headstock too... as much as possible. I don't just leave it all to the string tension. Don't want to lead anyone awry.

[Dumo]

Get a aluminum neck Travis Bean for travel. Even flight cases aren't 100% safe for LPs. I know touring guys who have had their headstocks broken 3-4 times on the same guitar.

[Ooogie]

There's definitely two camps on loosening the strings, I've bought a couple of guitars in the last year that were shipped tuned down a half-step.

Support for the headstock is the most critical thing though. There's an old article by Frank Ford on Frets.com about packing acoustics and he recommends stuffing newspaper or bubble-wrap around the headstock until you have to force the case closed. Here's a link to the article...

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/Packing/packing1.html

Mark

[Jahn]

These days I just won't ship a guitar or amp anymore, but back when I did, I double boxed and all that other good stuff outside the case. In the case, every empty air space was packed with bubblewrap. Never had a guitar busted in any way during shipping. The same went for travelling with a guitar - I just assumed they would make me toss it into cargo, so the case was always stuffed with padding in there.

[jjboogie]

These days I just won't ship a guitar or amp anymore, but back when I did, I double boxed and all that other good stuff outside the case. In the case, every empty air space was packed with bubblewrap. Never had a guitar busted in any way during shipping. The same went for travelling with a guitar - I just assumed they would make me toss it into cargo, so the case was always stuffed with padding in there.


Well from now on I am going to make sure my cases are packed with either bubble wrap or newspaper or something.

My next concern now is if I am able to be reimbursed for my broken guitar.

[trisonic]

Airfreight separately in a wooden coffin arrangement (specially for multiple instruments).
Best, Pete.

[shoe]

I would never check a guitar that was not in a flight case. To that point, I always bring my instruments on board in a double guitar soft gig bag and put them in the overhead compartment.

I agree with Ed. I always ship guitars tuned to pitch.

[mitch236]

I wouldn't stuff the case with newspaper. Bubble wrap is the best since it is compressable and shock absorbing. If someone drops a crate corner on your case, the newspaper could transmit the impact where as the bubble wrap is less likely to transmit the impact. I would have a custom made flight case made for my guitar if I had to fly with it.

[Alvis]

Sorry for your unfortunate incident. SKB les Paul cases are abosolute S**t .I have one that lasted about 3 flights
I just don't fly with my good guitars anymore.By good ,I mean Les Pauls,old SGs ,stuff like that .If I do transport a Les Paul in a regular case ,Im carryin it on the plane .If they wanna take it from me once we get to the plane ,that's another story.

I know some folks have difficulty adjusting to scale lengths ,but for flyin gigs nowdays ,I just use a super strat or super tele in a double gig bag with a Danelectro. For me,only expendable guitars when it comes to flyin
these days .

I've been farily fortunate in the last 12 years of flying around the globe.Back in '96 I had a Headstock cracked on a Harmony 12 string in a ,you guessed it, SKB case .I fixed it,and it's still on the road .I had a push pull pot broken and a toggle switch tip .But that kinda stuff gets broken in the van ,so Im pretty lucky
It's been an ongoing battle ,flying with gear ,the new weight restrictions dont make it any easier ,that's for sure.I haven't flown that anvil Les Paul case since 2003 and doubt I will be anytime soon

Good luck JJ ,hopefully you can at least get them to pay for the repair

[Mickey Shane]

I used to fly with my Les Paul a lot in the '80s. Chainsaw case, tuned to pitch, and carried on. IIRC the max insurance for checked baggage was $400.00 at that time. Not enough.

I would just set the case standing up on the floor in front of me. A flight attendant would always take it up to a vacant seat in the front of my section and seatbelt the case into the seat. It would be dangerous as a flying projectile in the event of a crash.

[Gas-man]

Well from now on I am going to make sure my cases are packed with either bubble wrap or newspaper or something.

My next concern now is if I am able to be reimbursed for my broken guitar.

So it wasn't a flight case?

I don't think you are going to get bupkis.

[FeloniousBishop]

I used to fly a lot with my guitar (a Gibson). They would always let me take it in the cabin - this was long time ago when things were a lot mellower - but one time they said it had to go down in the hold as there was no room in the cabin. They said they'd hand carry it to and from the hold and return it to me at the gate at the end of the flight.

The temperature in the hold goes very cold and when I got the guitar back the finish was completely covered in a maze of cracks from the rapid temperature change.

[jjboogie]

So it wasn't a flight case?

I don't think you are going to get bupkis.


Well when I went into Guitar Center I told the sales guy that I needed a flight case that is ATA rated so he brought me out a nice looking solid SKB case and said it was ATA rated.

Two and a half weeks later after my guitar breaks and I contact SKB they said that particular model number is NOT ATA rated! I am so ticked.

I called to complain to the manager of Guitar Center but he was not there at the time.

At the time I was under the impression it was ATA rated and told the airlines that when I filed my claim.

[kldonegan]

I just had a short international tour. Coming home from Dubai we had to fly to London Heathrow. I got London for a layover and opened my guitar case to find my Les Paul snapped just above the nut! There was absolutely no damage to the case and I loosened my strings big time. It was in an SKB case and fit real snug so the guitar did not move around.

I believe someone might have opened the case and acciddently dropped the guitar or something....I don't know....I filed a claim with the airline and am waiting for a reply. They were initially really rude and said "How do we know it wasn't broken before you got on the plane?" UGH!!!!

Does anyone have any experience like this? Any suggestions or input?


jj


I've started photographing the gear that I check under the plane. I take the photos just in case... I had a pedalboard get lost flying home from L.A. a while ago, and that got me started doing the photographs. If you take them with a camera that will time-stamp things, you'll have pretty good proof that the guitar/pedalboard was intact.

The guitar probably fell forward or backward just right and the inertia snapped the headstock. That doesn't have to show damage to the case to do damage to the guitar. Very sorry that it happened to you.

[Gris]

I would never check a guitar that was not in a flight case. To that point, I always bring my instruments on board in a double guitar soft gig bag and put them in the overhead compartment.



That's what I do with the dear ones. I also carry my amp head and stow it in the OH compartment. In fact, that's why I use a (modded) old BM head - it meets the 24 wide or less inch rule. Cabs I check in flight cases. Pedals and board go in large checked suitcase.

[Terry McInturff]

I'd avoid using bubblewrap for any nitro finished guitar. I just helped to restore seven new guitars shipped from overseas that had imprints on the finish from bubblewrap!

[jjboogie]

That's what I do with the dear ones. I also carry my amp head and stow it in the OH compartment. In fact, that's why I use a (modded) old BM head - it meets the 24 wide or less inch rule. Cabs I check in flight cases. Pedals and board go in large checked suitcase.


I get wore out carrying guitars through airports and security. But I guess the hassle is now going to have to be worth it to avoid this again.

[kimock]

This is why I think string tension is a must. What's there to equal out that whiplash force if you've got no tension on the headstock.



Depends if they drop your guitar face down or face up, huh?:jo

[jrm]

Bummer man. Do you have instrument insurance? At least that would give you something to fall back on in case the airline tries to screw you over.

[jjboogie]

Bummer man. Do you have instrument insurance? At least that would give you something to fall back on in case the airline tries to screw you over.


It is insured and I am waiting a reply from my insurance guy who is checking the details of the coverage. Not sure if it is insured against theft or both theft and damage. I can't remember and either could he so he is checking on it. He is a friend of the family and has always seemed to be up front and honest with me.

[kldonegan]

Depends if they drop your guitar face down or face up, huh?:jo


:jo

I guess it does... Dropped on its back your string tension would help. Dropped face down, less tension would better your odds. Always the thinker, Mr. Kimock.


Damn. I guess tension plus padding is my best bet...

[les]

FWIW, I had a Les Paul headstock break due to a flight from LA to SF where I didn't loosen the string tension.

I was always told to loosen the strings when the air travel is involved and the luggage compartment isn't pressurized. Not sure why other replies have been to the contrary.

Doesn't the pressure increase the tension on the neck to the point where it can snap?


Insurance took care of the repair with no questions asked.

[semi-hollowbody]

Well when I went into Guitar Center I told the sales guy that I needed a flight case that is ATA rated so he brought me out a nice looking solid SKB case and said it was ATA rated.

Two and a half weeks later after my guitar breaks and I contact SKB they said that particular model number is NOT ATA rated! I am so ticked.

I called to complain to the manager of Guitar Center but he was not there at the time.

At the time I was under the impression it was ATA rated and told the airlines that when I filed my claim.
first off sorry to hear about it, its gotta hurt opening a guitar case to find your headstock snapped...hopefully it was repairable...

secondly, I WOULD NEVER trust what a GC salesperson tells me...I have a couple SKB cases and they are definitely NOT ATA rated...

was it a gibson? If so, then its probably worth the few hundy to have it repaired...if it were me Id get a guild or epiphone, upgrade it, and use that for plane travel, then a busted guitar hurts a bit less in the pocket book.
Ive considered buying another ticket and putting my guitar nex to me on the plane (not touring, just taking a guitar on vacation) but northwest says naynay, it has to be secured...

[sonhenry]

Sorry to hear about this. Heathrow is the ABSOLUTE worst. I've watched my guitar get thrown end-over-end from the plane to the baggage cart. And the only time I've ever checked my reso (back when they weren't allowing anything in the cabin at all) I got it back 6 weeks after I left. Someone had taken it out of the case, thrown out all the newspaper tuned it up and then put it back in the case and then stomped on it with a boot. Still have a photo of the bootprint.

I had all the documentation, the right case, and I got bupkis from the airline. At least mine was a metal body so I could hammer it back into shape. Fingers crossed for you that you'll do better-

[LTE]

I believe someone might have opened the case and acciddently dropped the guitar or something....I don't know....I filed a claim with the airline and am waiting for a reply. They were initially really rude and said "How do we know it wasn't broken before you got on the plane?" UGH!!!!



I normally break my guitar into two pieces when I travel. God help them if they break it into three, because that would just totally ruin it.

In all seriousness, I had a friend who had Delta break his handmade classical at the headstock. Delta offered him $500 for his guiar. Then he told them that it was worth $3000.

They told him there was no way.

Needless to say, the discussion took on a whole another level after that.

[cadduc]

we used to buy a seat for our guitars
or
we would charm our way with the attendants and have them
stowed in with the crew's locker and gear

later
we bought new gear and an ata case and checked them in, then we took a straight three year depreciation schedule for taxes

i think checking in something you dont want to lose, is not a long term winning strategy

[jackaroo]

At least now you'll have your roadready LP!

So sorry to hear about the snap.

Here's mine...ugly S.O.B

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/jack_devine/71%20LP%20Custom/IMG_1831.jpg

OUCH!!!
Thanks Northridge quake!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/jack_devine/71%20LP%20Custom/IMG_1836.jpg

[lcjc800]

Les Pauls and other Gibsons snap headstocks regularly regardless of anything, but a properly tuned, flight case insured one is less likely to get damaged...

here's mine.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/LCJC800/Picture200.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/LCJC800/Picture201.jpg

[splatt]

FWIW, I specify my guitars be shipped, ground and/or air with strings at tension.
ditto.
dt / spltrcl

[Gris]

There is also the 'gate check' where you carry your guitar to the end of the tube and give it the guy who then supposedly gingerly places in the cargo hold atop everything else. I don't do that though because I'm afraid that even if they do 'gingerly place' it, in flight turbulence may cause a severe 're-arrangement' of the stowed items.

[baxen]

I use a "wedge" of closed cell foam cut to fit the case cavity, wrapped in satin that is placed on the headstock before I close the ata case. It act like a semi flexible shim between the headstock and case cover. The satin protects the finish. THe other problem with bubble wrap is the bubbles shrink in cold conditions and everything gets to loose. I also take a time stamped picture of everything I fly with. I also use small plastic wire ties that way I can see if anyone has been snooping. Mabye someone builds a case with those new ata locks? I put ata locks on everything else.

[darth_vader]

Forgive my ignorance, but if the cargo hold isn't pressurized, won't all your bubble wrap explode during flight?

[Flyin' Brian]

If you're flying with guitars and you don't have an ATA case, carry them on ...PERIOD. As far as shipping them, it's been years since I worked in a music store but ALL guitars we got from manufacturers were tuned at or close to pitch, Fenders, Gibbys, Martins....all of them.

[DrSax]

Les Pauls and other Gibsons snap headstocks regularly regardless of anything, but a properly tuned, flight case insured one is less likely to get damaged...

here's mine.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/LCJC800/Picture200.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/LCJC800/Picture201.jpg

sorry for the slight derail, but could you tell me the manufacturer/where I could get one of those cases? Thanks, and beautiful LP!

[AlexF]

This is why I think string tension is a must. What's there to equal out that whiplash force if you've got no tension on the headstock.



only one problem with that - the vast majority of LP breaks are forward, probably all the whiplash injuries are forwards - the string tension makes that much worse...
Al

[Tonefish]

Man I fell bad for you..that's a major bummer!!

[sonhenry]

Forgive my ignorance, but if the cargo hold isn't pressurized, won't all your bubble wrap explode during flight?

Hmm. My dog would have exploded when I shipped him too if that was the case. I *think* they're both pressurized and heated, but I might be wrong.

[Luke Duke]

I've carried a strat, a Tele, and a D18 on a plane before with no incident. You just have to be willing to work with the crew on placing your guitar somewhere safe. It is more hassle, running it through the x-ray and opening the case for security, but the peace-of-mind makes it worthwhile to me.

The D18 went with me to Hawaii in July and it was only out of sight while I was on the American Eagle regional jet. On that part of the flight every carry on went in a specific compartment.

Luke

[jjboogie]

Well what a surprise! Emirates airlines responds to me with the "We are not responsible for the damage" line!

Well I have to say that this is what I expected but was a bit hopeful that if I was nice they would try to help.

Now I have to see what my insurance company will do. Pray for me! : )

[jrm]

weak.

[jjboogie]

The manager of Guitar Center has totally taken care of me! He hooked me up with a new real ATA rated case for free and is completely covering the costs of the repairs and will have my axe repaired by Tuesday!!!!

Whew! I am glad that is over with! And I appreciate there response in taken care of my situation.

[gkoelling]

If you're flying with guitars and you don't have an ATA case, carry them on ...PERIOD. As far as shipping them, it's been years since I worked in a music store but ALL guitars we got from manufacturers were tuned at or close to pitch, Fenders, Gibbys, Martins....all of them.

+1

I've worked on the wholesale side of the music industry for over 16 years and every guitar manufacturer I've worked with ships guitars tuned to pitch. I'm sure if the incidence of shipping damage was lower with strings slacked, that's exactly how they'd ship.

[jjboogie]

+1

I've worked on the wholesale side of the music industry for over 16 years and every guitar manufacturer I've worked with ships guitars tuned to pitch. I'm sure if the incidence of shipping damage was lower with strings slacked, that's exactly how they'd ship.


Yeah but most guitar manufacturers ship ground not in the air.

[mlynn02]

The manager of Guitar Center has totally taken care of me! He hooked me up with a new real ATA rated case for free and is completely covering the costs of the repairs and will have my axe repaired by Tuesday!!!!

Whew! I am glad that is over with! And I appreciate there response in taken care of my situation.

way to go GC!! that's great, i'm happy for you. do you think a "mom and pop" type of music store would have done that? some, maybe.

is this the GC in atlanta on 85?

[newking70]

invest in a good case: http://www.casextreme.com/

[bigkahuna2u]

Nothing like a Guitar Center happy ending!

[jjboogie]

way to go GC!! that's great, i'm happy for you. do you think a "mom and pop" type of music store would have done that? some, maybe.

is this the GC in atlanta on 85?


It was the manager of the Marietta location who really took care of me. I was so surprised and am very grateful!

Huge kudos for GC!!!!!

[57special]

These days I just won't ship a guitar or amp anymore, but back when I did, I double boxed and all that other good stuff outside the case. In the case, every empty air space was packed with bubblewrap. Never had a guitar busted in any way during shipping. The same went for travelling with a guitar - I just assumed they would make me toss it into cargo, so the case was always stuffed with padding in there.

I did that recently, then they opened it all up to be inspected. I offered to help them re-pack it, but it's against the rules for me to enter the inspection area. In my little airport i could direct them from the counter on how to re-pack it, but good luck at a bigger airport such as O'hare.

IMO, headstock breaks on airlines usually happen because the case is dropped from the plane/ loading vehicle. I've seen it happen from the window of my flight. Given the abysmal attitude at domestic U.S. airlines, you're taking a bigger chance than ever shipping anything. And good luck trying to claim something from United , Delta, or their ilk.

[Structo]

Glad that GC is taking care of you.

You don't hear much good about them anymore.

I'll bet the baggage handlers just love to see a guitar case on their cart.

They probably get real satisfaction when they throw it 15 feet into a pile.

Dirtbags.

Reminds me of the time I had an amp kit delivered by UPS to my house.

I had followed the tracking and was waiting for it.

The driver opened his door and carried up to my front door where I was waiting and literally dropped it at my feet.
Dude, what are you doing I screamed at him, didn't you notice all the Fragile stickers on the box?!!!

Well I didn't really call him dude but I did kind of yell at him about the Fragile stickers.
He just looked at me and thrust the signature thingy at me.....

Well luckily no damage although one of the power tubes redplated after about 8 hours.....

Bottom line?

They don't give a shit about your stuff!

[Chiba]

Unfortunately, that kind of headstock break is typical with many Gibsons. Sucks.

The upside is, once repaired, it'll be better than new!!

--chiba

[fusion58]

FWIW, I specify my guitars be shipped, ground and/or air with strings at tension.

+1

This has been always been my policy, and I've never had a problem either with shipping my own instruments or with guitars I've sold to Euro or Asian buyers on eBay, etc.

[TommyMambo]

As far as travel or shipping, I've had good luck in keeping the strings tightened on LP's and set neck guitars, and loosened on Fenders.

In 25 years, the airlines haven't broken one yet (knock on wood).