View Full Version : Girl Guitar Jam
jpervin
10-23-2008, 04:24 AM
This girl can PLAY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wnjR6MM38k&feature=related
Sorry, gotta disagree. She may have the notes down, but she keeps pushing ahead of the beat. . . and her playing has got no soul.
daddyo
10-23-2008, 01:03 PM
Sounded good to me.
nnick
10-23-2008, 01:28 PM
I have never seen someone play a guitar for that long while maintaining a completely expressionless face. It did not look like she enjoyed what she was doing at all.
I have never seen someone play a guitar for that long while maintaining a completely expressionless face. It did not look like she enjoyed what she was doing at all.
all of the related links seem to link to similar vids from the same company, gal on guitar with no smile busting her way through some technically proficient chops. is this like a fetish thing, where some creepy vidcam guy scouts gals who play guitar and makes them wear girlie stuff while ripping? at least the models at auto shows will flash a smile for the pervs:BOUNCE
prsflame
10-23-2008, 02:19 PM
I've seen plenty of male Jazz and Classical guitarists play with very little facial expression/affect.....She's not obligated to smile and look pretty.
But the type of music being played - if you aren't going to grin like Eddie Van Halen, wouldn't you want to at least generate a small face melting expression due to the heat of the chops you're putting out? Or if its emo, at least a sad mopey look, or a "I'm dead inside" type of expressionless face. Here, they just don't seem to care either way.
In Jazz, think Bud Powell - drunk off his ass and laughing like mad and singing along to his own improvisations...I'm not saying Jazz is now dead and thus so are the facial emotions, but I'm definitely saying that playing that kind of electric guitar music should generate some kind of facial response unless it's being treated as an academic exercise, you're not having fun, or you're missing the point. IMHO of course.
Edit - btw i do fear that for these particular videos these girls were indeed instructed to sit there, play, and look pretty. Which none of them seem too happy about.
eddie101
10-23-2008, 02:28 PM
She plays better than some of the adults that I know, including me.
aeolian
10-23-2008, 02:28 PM
Kind of painting by numbers. None of the phrases are "worked" to be musical. Everything is in the same place.
Not a knock on Asian women playing guitar. Interestingly, several years ago I was covering a clinic at the Guitar Activity Center for my buddy Ken Harrill (who had a last minute corporate gig that conflicted with a clinic he was supposed to chair). Group of regular folks were supposed to work out with Ken and the house band. One of the songs they were learning was Free Ride. This is one of those songs where that SRV scraping is appropriate. Get the right hand swinging and pull the chords out from there. Of all the students in the room that day, the one with the most swing was a middle aged Korean woman.
It's not the gender or ethnicity, it's whether the person feels it inside. That woman felt it. Sorry, I just don't think this girl feels it.
daddyo
10-23-2008, 02:39 PM
Remember, it is not culturally acceptable in many Asian countries for women to show emotion.
eddie101
10-23-2008, 02:44 PM
Remember, it is not culturally acceptable in many Asian countries for women to show emotion.
20 years ago, perhaps. Now, they are much more "liberal" than you and I combined, my friend... :)
Remember, it is not culturally acceptable in many Asian countries for women to show emotion.
Bingo...
cue joan armitrading music please!
20 years ago, perhaps. Now, they are much more "liberal" than you and I combined, my friend... :)
Exactly, it's not she's playing the Koto or something-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75uAD-XYs6U
This is electric guitar we're talking about, you're allowed to show that you're enjoying it a bit!
Oasis.Guitar
10-23-2008, 03:35 PM
I have never seen someone play a guitar for that long while maintaining a completely expressionless face. It did not look like she enjoyed what she was doing at all.
It is kind of difficult to watch but I don't think she sounds bad like one guy said. With that said, it's not really a performance setting...seems more like a session...where you might expect a bit more concentration and less emotion...just a guess.
Randaddy
10-23-2008, 03:40 PM
Man, you are a tough bunch of critics!
I thought she played very well. Great chops IMO.
Jon Silberman
10-23-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm with you, Randaddy. What a bunch of crabs we are here. I'd like to see some of our self-proclaimed critics post videos of their playing. She's in a studio-type setting with 'phones on, who the f- cares what facial expressions she's making?
Rock Johnson
10-23-2008, 05:22 PM
Man, you are a tough bunch of critics!
I thought she played very well. Great chops IMO.
Absolutely. Good tone, great chops.... and everybody's pissed because she doesn't make stupid faces when she plays? Sheesh. She's better than me.
Tuberoast
10-23-2008, 06:03 PM
I thought it was very good...jeez, everyone's acting all jaded and stuffy.
DEMENTED
10-23-2008, 06:17 PM
Talented player but the tune bored me....maybe she looks that way because it bored her too?
leofenderbender
10-23-2008, 06:18 PM
I thought it was excellent. I also think there are a bunch of *typical* guitar players with the stick-in-the-mud mentality posting about it here.
Audioholic
10-23-2008, 06:21 PM
Sorry, gotta disagree. She may have the notes down, but she keeps pushing ahead of the beat. . . and her playing has got no soul.
Ha
its always fun to see people find some fault in a good performance and skill. sheesh :argue
Flyin' Brian
10-23-2008, 06:21 PM
I'm with you, Randaddy. What a bunch of crabs we are here. I'd like to see some of our self-proclaimed critics post videos of their playing. She's in a studio-type setting with 'phones on, who the f- cares what facial expressions she's making?
Totally!! I'm with you guys as well. The song is a Larry Carlton tune called "Bubble Shuffle" and she's playing his solo note for note. Not with the feel or phrasing that he gets in it, but not bad.
Berlebster
10-23-2008, 11:36 PM
Man, you are a tough bunch of critics!
I thought she played very well. Great chops IMO.
thank God you said it polite , if it was from me i could have been suspended for awhile.
I can't understand such an attitude . Just go & visit an american music school , you'll hear and see really strange things.
In M.I they can teach a monkey with a baseball cap how to play kid charlemagne solo notefor note .........so give girls a break.
She can do it and a large number of us just cun't.
I didn't criticize her for being a woman, or being Asian, or not making ugly faces. She knows the notes, but she does not know what she's playing. If you guys can't sense the emptiness, then . . . .
Berlebster
10-24-2008, 12:15 AM
I didn't criticize her for being a woman, or being Asian, or not making ugly faces. She knows the notes, but she does not know what she's playing. If you guys can't sense the emptiness, then . . . .
Please remember you !!!!!
Have you ever been an empty student once or were you born that gifted and started gigs at 8years old.
Come on guys .................... :band
stevieboy
10-24-2008, 12:50 AM
She's not very old, some of you are calling her a woman, I don't think so. I wouldn't expect her to be technically proficient AND emotionally mature as a player... yet. She's a student, tackling some pretty advanced material and I think concentrating pretty hard on playing the notes as "written". She's pretty far along and just based on the one tune I'd say she has a lot of potential. I can't really see the point of judging her against Larry Carlton at this point of her life.
Maybe she isn't making faces, but I see enough body language to give me the impression she's into it.
daddyo
10-24-2008, 08:23 AM
I bet if she would have played the exact same thing but given off a few guitary "orgasm" faces the negative pundits here would be saying she rocked their world ;)
Red Suede
10-24-2008, 10:27 AM
That's the way you start, is by emulating great players. Sooner or later you change things around to make the notes your own. I know of one really great player who sounded like another well known player for years until one day I heard him and he sounded like himself. Sometimes it just takes time.
Here's my rule of thumb - if the performance is worthy of one of those "...Shreds" parodies, it works for me. Even Paco de Lucia got caught "shredding" - ain't no shame in showing that you're into the music you're playing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89zM9pZzt0U
French Fry
10-24-2008, 10:45 AM
wow, tough crowd.
I've seen stuff posted on the gear page that was far worse and didn't get this kind of reaction. Most of what I've seen posted in the past was pretty supportive of peoples clips.
I've tried that solo. It's not easy to play as good as carlton. That may not be her best take either.
I'd hate to consider the flaming I got if I posted my version.
Flyin' Brian
10-24-2008, 10:50 AM
Please remember you !!!!!
Have you ever been an empty student once or were you born that gifted and started gigs at 8years old.
Come on guys .................... :band
That's the way you start, is by emulating great players. Sooner or later you change things around to make the notes your own. I know of one really great player who sounded like another well known player for years until one day I heard him and he sounded like himself. Sometimes it just takes time.
I agree once again with all the people protesting the bashing that's going on here. I would like to see a YouTube performance from all those who were at the same student phase of their playing that this girl is. I think it would very revealing.
As far as the part I highlighted, there are many major players who still cop others. Larry Carlton did a song called "Strikes Twice" that was a direct rip of a Johnny Smith song. I've watched Larry Coryell play an exact note for note Johnny Smith solo in one of his songs. I've also seen Henry Johnson do that with Wes solos. Steve Miller's "Rock n Me" is a direct cop of Free's "All Right Now", and his riff in "The Stake" is right from Joe Walsh's "Rocky Mountain Way". Then there's the neat Dm riff that's heard in "Sultans of Swing" and for the most part in "The Wall" as well.
There are very few players who are truly and absolutely innovative and original all of the time. After all there are only 12 notes to work with.
There's an awful lot of judges here who ought to be a bit more relaxed.
A mind is like a parachute....it's useless if it isn't open.
eddie101
10-24-2008, 11:02 AM
......After all there are only 12 notes to work with.
And Edge said there are only 8 notes...:) ....FWIW, I like Edge, btw.
There's an awful lot of judges here who ought to be a bit more relaxed.
A mind is like a parachute....it's useless if it isn't open.
Well said and I am going to steal this "licks", too :D
Please remember you !!!!!
Have you ever been an empty student once or were you born that gifted and started gigs at 8years old.
Come on guys .................... :band
My responses have been based solely on the hype of the OP; the word "play" in all caps and ending with an exclamation point. If he/she wants to have an O over this girl's playing, that's fine. I do not have to agree.
aeolian
10-24-2008, 12:29 PM
If you look around, a lot of these girls are classical students. Someone is giving them an electric and getting them to play various electric guitar pieces. Technique with the pick is not being taught beyond just getting to the notes. Classical folks study tone production and developing the note. I suspect whoever is doing this doesn't understand tone production with a pick. Maybe someone should send them Eric Johnson's Total Electric Guitar or something.
There is one girl named Su who does play with some feel. Both on the electric pieces and the Paganini clip I saw. She feels the music rather than just walks though it as written.
To me, the development in technique should go hand in hand with the development of feel. They are locked together. If you don't know how to work a note to wring some feel out of it, it isn't going to help to learn to get to the next note quicker. At some point you'll either not be able to play with feel, or have to go back, tone down the chops and relearn the feel part.
Another thing I've noticed is that the bends don't have conviction to them. Even watching some clips of Nora Bucci, she sounds killer with great phrasing and ideas until she goes to bend a note. Then the pitch is tentative and the whole thing sounds out of place. I don't know if it has to do with small hands (although Laura Chavez certainly can wring out stop you in your tracks bends with small hands) or coming from the classical school of technique and then just doing the bend. Instead of viewing it (like many other aspects of playing an electric guitar) as a technique in itself. Studying and perfecting that techique the same as any other.
Audioholic
10-24-2008, 12:44 PM
So if she was like making fun faces as she was playing, it would be considered soul? Dude, she pretty much nailed the song, hit the notes, and yet we are still trying to find faults in appearance or lack of emotion or disconected playing? Give me a break. I don't make funny gestures or often times act like I am totally into what I am playing, I zone out in my head, and most often are not very animated, its just how I play. I personally don't like it when people are trying to be so expressionful as they play, its all cheese to me.
I personally think that anyone who starts critisizing a decent performance should automatically be required to post a video of thier playing the same thing as a comparison.... seriously, whos with me :-)
The "Face Melting" thing was a bit of a poke, but of course there are other ways to see if someone's feeling their music. For instance, look at Danny Gatton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5XH84mmI4
Did he crack a smile anywhere in there, or jump off a stack of Marshalls with some pyro flashing behind him? No. But you can tell with every bend and every riff that he's locked into that groove, he's in the moment, and even through how many years later, me sitting on this side of a youtube monitor, I'm feelin' the love. I've seen 4 year olds swinging their plastic Ukes against the wall and looking like they're having more fun making noises than in the vid in that OP - again, that's just my opinion.
Hootad Binky
10-24-2008, 01:07 PM
I saw some groovin' and head swingin' goin' on!
(It was Muzak, after all).
Thwap
10-24-2008, 01:13 PM
It was very polite.
At least that's how it felt to me.
aeolian
10-24-2008, 05:45 PM
Dude, she pretty much nailed the song, hit the notes,
The bold says it all. Pretty much nailing is what you call it as you learn something. There's more to music than "hitting the notes". Lots more. To be able to "hit the notes" at this level without having learned the delivery of those notes makes me think that there is one dimensional teaching or playing going on. Somebody thinks that just hitting the notes pretty much where and how they are supposed to be played is enough. And so chases more complicated songs and technical proficiency (and without the ability to deliver the notes musically, I hesitate to call this technical proficiency) instead of learning all the aspects of how to play the easier stuff.
This is common in the early study of classical music and the folks who work on the musical delivery as another aspect of their technical proficiency stand out as the real artists, and are the ones who go on to making records and concertizing.
Red Suede
10-24-2008, 06:45 PM
Nobody here knows where this girl will end up as a player. I did a play some years ago and the leader was a guy who went to Oberlin College as a classical player. One of the instructors told him that he was going to turn him into a blues/jazz player if it was the last thing he did. The play he was the leader of was called "Cookin At The Cookery" and the guy had played with Count Basie's band, Cab Calloway, and others. He could play either style with conviction and feel. Another friend I grew up with is named Peter Zafaris. He's the head of the legit department at some major conservatory in L.A. but he was the best rock player in town when we were growing up. You just don't know how people will come out the other end. She looks pretty young, guys.
Hey I went to Oberlin too! The best part of going there were all the free student concerts. You could tell they were serious, the intensity was dripping off them when they were performing, especially for exams. But even in performing "dead music" (of course, debatable but you know what I mean) those kids were pouring their heart into it, really trying to capture the spirit of that composition.
The OP vid still seems like she's in disconnect.
Found this channel, it's like the living dead over there:
http://www.youtube.com/user/bymusicman
pickaguitar
10-24-2008, 07:05 PM
She's great!
telecopter
10-24-2008, 07:16 PM
I prefer this one...she's funky to the max...!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqW-WU5Usk&feature=related
Bassomatic
10-24-2008, 07:16 PM
I've seen plenty of male Jazz and Classical guitarists play with very little facial expression/affect.....She's not obligated to smile and look pretty.
Right on, Jen.
aeolian
10-24-2008, 07:46 PM
I prefer this one...she's funky to the max...!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqW-WU5Usk&feature=related
That's the one I was referring to. She still seems a bit uncomfortable with the style but she swings it nonetheless. There's a blues thing where she's more out of her element.
Her she is in her element. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfkKm-dvTvY If she put the same effort into learning the electric technique and canon, she would be killer. Who know's which way she'll end up. But it will be music in any case.
I agree with the Su clips, here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI_fB2kY9Os&feature=related
Definitely seems like it's a "read off the page" solo, but the feel is there. She'll do just fine.
By the way, it's not about he or she. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrj5Nfw12IA&feature=channel
Plenty of body language, really getting into it, right? Don't worry about the fact that it's a crossdresser, it's all good under the hood!
barik01
10-25-2008, 04:47 AM
wow, tough crowd.
I've seen stuff posted on the gear page that was far worse and didn't get this kind of reaction. Most of what I've seen posted in the past was pretty supportive of peoples clips.
I've tried that solo. It's not easy to play as good as carlton. That may not be her best take either.
I'd hate to consider the flaming I got if I posted my version.
Youīre right.
I think thatīs pretty funny. If somebody wouldīve posted the same clip as an audio demonstrating his $10000-strat and monster rig, everyone would be raving about the amazing tone...donīt get it! She sounds really good to me. Stop looking at the screen and just listen to it and tell me why she isnīt a good guitarist. Also, as sheīs playing smooth jazz, she really should start banging her head and set this guitar on fire...I mean a little bit more emotion shown would be nice, but in the end only the playing counts, and I really like it.
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.