Axl, you gotta get an album out. You owe it to the people...and us.

[BMF Effects]

Seriously, how did Axl Rose manage to stall the record company 10+ years for "Chinese Democracy"? Someone had to be footing the bill for this one.

[daddyo]

$13m

[kludge]

To be crude, Axl missed his chance. If he'd just wrapped his Ferrari around a tree 15 years ago, he'd be a LEGEND today, not a pathetic has-been, a Spinal Tap parody of everything wrong with big-league rock.

I'm 98% certain that Chinese Democracy will suck. Remember, Axl didn't write the great songs of GnR's golden age... Izzy Stradlin did. And Buckethead, for all his prowness and nerdy cool, probably doesn't have the sort of authority that Slash did. After the breakup, we're stuck with Hired Guns n' Roses. Why has it taken so long? Because in his heart, Axl KNOWS it sucks. He KNOWS this is the end of his career.

You don't keep a mobile recording rig outside your mansion 24/7 for years just in case you feel inspired one day. If you're inspired, you throw yourself enthusiastically at the studio every day! If you're rockin', you don't navel-gaze and nitpick over which of the hundred takes is most perfect. You pick a good one and cope because you're chomping at the bit to do the NEXT one! Seriously, what's more productive... listening to a hundred different takes, or spending that time writing more songs and recording more takes?

There are thousands and thousands of albums that were recorded in mere days that will be better than Chinese Democracy. This has all the earmarks of being the Heaven's Gate of major label albums - not just the ruin of its creators, but the end of an entire way of making big-money art. Never, ever again will a performer be given the leniency Axl has received.

[BMF Effects]

I probably could have gotten away with naming the thread "The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle".

[kludge]

I probably could have gotten away with naming the thread "The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle".

"Do you ever feel like you've been cheated?"

Thanks, Johnny, for the most succinct critique of the music industry ever made.

[pickaguitar]

Well I heard a song on the radio from it...something about 'having time'.
While it wasn't the worst thing I've ever heard...it seemed waaaay too bassy. Seemed like a bad mix IMO.

[soulloud]

great songs of GnR's golden age... ??????????? I must have missed those songs.

[Luke]

Don't hold it all in, tell us how you really feel. :D

To be crude, Axl missed his chance. If he'd just wrapped his Ferrari around a tree 15 years ago, he'd be a LEGEND today, not a pathetic has-been, a Spinal Tap parody of everything wrong with big-league rock.

I'm 98% certain that Chinese Democracy will suck. Remember, Axl didn't write the great songs of GnR's golden age... Izzy Stradlin did. And Buckethead, for all his prowness and nerdy cool, probably doesn't have the sort of authority that Slash did. After the breakup, we're stuck with Hired Guns n' Roses. Why has it taken so long? Because in his heart, Axl KNOWS it sucks. He KNOWS this is the end of his career.

You don't keep a mobile recording rig outside your mansion 24/7 for years just in case you feel inspired one day. If you're inspired, you throw yourself enthusiastically at the studio every day! If you're rockin', you don't navel-gaze and nitpick over which of the hundred takes is most perfect. You pick a good one and cope because you're chomping at the bit to do the NEXT one! Seriously, what's more productive... listening to a hundred different takes, or spending that time writing more songs and recording more takes?

There are thousands and thousands of albums that were recorded in mere days that will be better than Chinese Democracy. This has all the earmarks of being the Heaven's Gate of major label albums - not just the ruin of its creators, but the end of an entire way of making big-money art. Never, ever again will a performer be given the leniency Axl has received.

[GtrWiz]

Someone had to be footing the bill for this one.

From what I heard, the label stopped paying at, I wanna say, $10 Million, the rest was out of his own pocket. :eek:

[Stike]

Hired Guns n' Roses

I had not heard that one before, it's PERFECT!

[kludge]

great songs of GnR's golden age... ??????????? I must have missed those songs.

Oh, they DID have some great songs. "Sweet Child o' Mine" is a pretty near perfect rock song. :RoCkIn But they couldn't sustain it.

[Rock Johnson]

Kludge, you nailed it.



I read an interesting story a while back that kinda sums it all up for me. On the song "November Rain," all the string parts are actually synths. Axl reportedly spent weeks on end tweaking the synth parts to get them to sound just exactly like strings, to the point where 99.9% of the folks out there think it's an orchestra doing those parts.

Point is... wouldn't it have been far easier just to record strings instead?

The whole Chinese Democracy album is an exercise in the same BS.

[kludge]

Don't hold it all in, tell us how you really feel. :D

Actually, how I really feel was best summed up by the character Patsy on the tv show Absolutely Fabulous...

"You know what's wrong with music these days? Nobody chokes to death on their own vomit anymore!"

She has a point. When you're a big rock star but don't have the talent/drive/sense to sustain it, your choices are to either burn out or fade away, as Neil Young so succinctly put it. Think about someone like Jimi Hendrix, or Nick Drake, or Jeff Buckley... by dying at their creative peak, they never had the chance to SUCK. They never had any embarrassing mid-period albums to quietly get out of print. And they sure as hell never sunk millions of dollars into a white elephant like Chinese Democracy.

Do you know about Heaven's Gate? It was a movie that ended the golden age of director-driven movies in Hollywood. It was the brainchild of Oscar-winning director Michael Cirmino (The Deer Hunter). The basic premise of the movie was terrific. But the director's "vision" got completely out of hand. It fell far behind schedule and drastically over budget, and came out in an unwatchable 5+ hour form. But most importantly, it sucked. Believe me, I've seen it. It's dreadful - poorly paced, poorly acted, sprawling (in a bad way), and utterly boring. After Heaven's Gate, Hollywood stopped allowing directors free reign to do their own movies without oversight. It ended an era of cinematic masterpieces, of course - no more movies like The Godfather or Easyrider. But Hollywood was no longer willing to risk so much money on potential boondoggles.

Right now, the record industry faces declining sales overall, a surge in alternative (and uncontrolled) indie promotion via the Internet, and the ability to do pro-quality recordings at home. Their platinum-record economic model is no longer viable, and they're not going to tolerate has-beens like Axl Rose spending millions on ego-trip albums much longer.

[cody_scu]

To be crude, Axl missed his chance. If he'd just wrapped his Ferrari around a tree 15 years ago, he'd be a LEGEND today, not a pathetic has-been, a Spinal Tap parody of everything wrong with big-league rock.

I'm 98% certain that Chinese Democracy will suck. Remember, Axl didn't write the great songs of GnR's golden age... Izzy Stradlin did. And Buckethead, for all his prowness and nerdy cool, probably doesn't have the sort of authority that Slash did. After the breakup, we're stuck with Hired Guns n' Roses. Why has it taken so long? Because in his heart, Axl KNOWS it sucks. He KNOWS this is the end of his career.

You don't keep a mobile recording rig outside your mansion 24/7 for years just in case you feel inspired one day. If you're inspired, you throw yourself enthusiastically at the studio every day! If you're rockin', you don't navel-gaze and nitpick over which of the hundred takes is most perfect. You pick a good one and cope because you're chomping at the bit to do the NEXT one! Seriously, what's more productive... listening to a hundred different takes, or spending that time writing more songs and recording more takes?

There are thousands and thousands of albums that were recorded in mere days that will be better than Chinese Democracy. This has all the earmarks of being the Heaven's Gate of major label albums - not just the ruin of its creators, but the end of an entire way of making big-money art. Never, ever again will a performer be given the leniency Axl has received.

+100000

IMO, GnR is Slash, Duff, Izzy, Axl, (insert Drummer), etc. I don't feel that Axl owes me anything. GnR has been dead as a band for a long time.

[MBreinin]

They made one great album. They made rock history. There is not a bad song on AFD. However, the beginning was also the end. I have no interest in Chinese Democracy. I waited in line to buy Illusion I & II at a midnight release, and probably listened to the CDs for a couple of months. I have bought AFD THREE TIMES, and still listen to it to this day.

Mike

[guitarsnguns04]

I heard the new title track as well..not bad but didnt fire me up much. I guess Buckethead and Bubmlefoot do the guitar work along with the guy from Nine inch nails on the album..hopefull for them the variety is good and Axl let them have some input .

[Hootad Binky]

Anyone who has stood up as many huge, enthusiastic, paying audiences as Axl Rose has, deserves oblivion.

[Axemeister]

From what I have heard, there is no shortage of guitar talent on the album, from a bunch of contributing players, but I imagine that it has all been distilled and redistilled over the years of production. This is still Axl's product and he is going nowhere as far as I am concerned.

[bocaboy]

Here is a new tune. I think it is pretty cool.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5R3D6ZyGZsg

It takes about 45 seconds to get into the song.

[donnievaz]

great songs of GnR's golden age... ??????????? I must have missed those songs.

A little thing called Appetite for Destruction ring a bell?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:4slnV543gMKaaM:http://www.did-art.fr/images/ORIG_1162295573_Guns_N_Roses__AppetiteForDestructi on_front.jpg

[blood5150]

http://www.webruler.com/artellephant/Axl_Rose2.jpg

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/news/00014953.jpg


WTH Happened....

I never really thought that anything they did after Appetite was that good anyway...

just my opinion.

[Josh O]

A little thing called Appetite for Destruction ring a bell?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:4slnV543gMKaaM:http://www.did-art.fr/images/ORIG_1162295573_Guns_N_Roses__AppetiteForDestructi on_front.jpg

:agree

This album was the start of turning Aqua Net MTV friendly metal on it's ear, Nirvana and the grunge movement did the rest. This album was definetely a breath of fresh air when it came out and got me interested in new music again. In your face rock from start to finish. When I saw Velvet Revolver last year, the 16 year old came out of me when they played It's So Easy.

[melondaoust]

I heard the title track of Chinese Democracy on the GNR site - I enjoyed it, but you have to keep the fact that It's Axl and friends (Guns N' Roses in name only) in mind when you listen to it.

I don't think that you can compare it to AFD or the Illusion records - different personnel, etc. If anything, it will have to stand on its own merits.

Mind you, I will not be rushing out to buy it on the release date...

[soulloud]

I hate when someone posts on a thread just to say how much they think someone sucks. So, please disregard my earlier post. Continue....

[michaelvincent]

WTH Happened....
Um....Axl Rose isn't 25 anymore? I don't really get the idea that everyone was expecting skinny, young, bandana'd Axl Rose to come out of hiding 15 years later and pick up where we left off in 1991. Everyone gets older unfortunately.

Personally, the whole saga around this project fascinates me. I don't know why, but it just does. It's way to absurd to not find it interesting. A lot has happened since GnR last put out an album, and I can't honestly fault the guy for wanting to try some new things, and break away from what he did in 1987. Of the material I've heard, I'd say some of it is pretty mediocre, and some of it is downright cool. But it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses so it isn't going to get a fair shake. How many of you are still playing the same style of music you were 20 years ago? 10 years ago? He made his mark on music history, good or bad as it may be, so I'm willing to give him a pass and not get so bent out of shape if he wants to do whatever the hell he wants.

I don't think he would be getting the amount of flack he's getting if he had put it out as a solo album....or anything but Guns N' Roses. He could have gone on for another 10 years quietly fiddling away with his music and no one would have thought twice about it.

[stratzrus]

Axl, you gotta get an album out. You owe it to the people.With all due respect, they don't owe you squat.

[jaycee]

Anyone who has stood up as many huge, enthusiastic, paying audiences as Axl Rose has, deserves oblivion.

I couldn't agree more.

[stratman34]

I think we should start a new rule. When more than 75% of the band has been replaced, you should be REQUIRED to change the name. GNR died after Use Your Illusion II. It is no more.

This is an Axl solo album, and I will listen to it online and give it a chance. But GNR, it is not.

[CharAznable]

Indeed. It should say Axl Rose on the cover, not Guns N Roses.

Not that I'm terribly impressed.

[kludge]

Um....Axl Rose isn't 25 anymore? I don't really get the idea that everyone was expecting skinny, young, bandana'd Axl Rose to come out of hiding 15 years later and pick up where we left off in 1991. Everyone gets older unfortunately.

Personally, the whole saga around this project fascinates me. I don't know why, but it just does. It's way to absurd to not find it interesting. A lot has happened since GnR last put out an album, and I can't honestly fault the guy for wanting to try some new things, and break away from what he did in 1987. Of the material I've heard, I'd say some of it is pretty mediocre, and some of it is downright cool. But it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses so it isn't going to get a fair shake. How many of you are still playing the same style of music you were 20 years ago? 10 years ago? He made his mark on music history, good or bad as it may be, so I'm willing to give him a pass and not get so bent out of shape if he wants to do whatever the hell he wants.

I don't think he would be getting the amount of flack he's getting if he had put it out as a solo album....or anything but Guns N' Roses. He could have gone on for another 10 years quietly fiddling away with his music and no one would have thought twice about it.

Getting older and changing isn't the issue. Many, many artists put out some of their best work twenty years or more after their first hit. And if Chinese Democracy turns out to be as good or better than AFD - on its own merits - I will gladly eat my words, publicly apologize to Axl for doubting him, and buy extra copies for xmas gifts.

But honestly, I have little hope that it will be a great album. I have little hope it'll even be a GOOD album. Like I said, if you're inspired, you don't pay to park a mobile recording rig outside your mansion in case you feel inspired that day. No, you wake up to an adrenaline rush, cheerfully drive to the studio, work your butt off all day, and go to bed exhausted, with a head full of plans about what you'll do in the studio the next day! I've been there, I know how that rush feels.

And if you're NOT inspired, you aren't going to make a great album, period. Instead, you sit around listening to 100 different takes of the same thing, nitpicking over tiny details about which one is "best". If you're INSPIRED, if you know what you want to do, you don't have TIME to nitpick like that! You choose one and go on to the next thing! And you sure as hell don't sit around for eleven years perfecting your work... you get it done and out the door, so you can work on the NEXT inspiration.

[blood5150]

I was not talking about AXL getting older... its the fact that he has shot his face full of friggen BOTOX

[fizbin]

"Axl, you gotta get an album out. You owe it to the people...and us."

Be careful what you wish for...