Thoughts on firing a band member because you found someone better?

[kselbee]

So we had another singer come out and jam with us and we sounded better than we've ever sounded. A couple of us are pretty geeked and really are considering making a change. But some other members are saying there's no reason to fire our existing singer... he's there, knows the material and gets some gigs. He's not without flaw though (lots of drama with his girlfriend at gigs, likes to tweek our amps, his voice cracks...).

Any opinions? Would this be a terrible thing to do? Or is it just business?

[jaycee]

Rough call. If you fire him you have to at least be honest. Tell him there's someone who just fits better. Tweaking amps and chick drama at gigs is a definite no-no.

[Lightningrt]

Will he be with you 6 months down the line? If your current guy is a stayer, he may be a better investment in the long run... My experience of singers is that they tend to get poached easier than other members of the band, so getting a stayer who is loyal to you is important.

[therhodeo]

I would say no if the current guy just wasn't quite as good. If he has other flaws like you mentioned its worth looking into.

[cvansickle]

Jaycee and Lightningrt both make valid points.

IMO, if the current guy has merits but also has issues, first discuss the issues with him. Give him a "warning" that he is "on notice." Give him a chance to correct the issues.

[paddywhack]

...if a singer tweaked my amp i'd not only fire him...i'd drop his microphone in an unflushed toilet....

[TNJ]

Our r&b band is going through the same thing right now...with a drummer change. We found a young kid who just plays his A$$ off, and our current drummer plays like he's immersed in sludge. No sustainable tempo skills, and this guy gives lessons and has been playing for 30 years. :eek:
WTF? So...what we're doing is scratching our heads, trying to think of a way to let our current guy down easy...you know, not ruffle any ego feathers. Personally, I dont see how this can be avoided. The other problem is, our current drummer found us a killer lead singer (we were still looking for a singer), and now I think he perceives himself golden, as he got us a good front man. Quite the conundrum...we not only have to get rid of the old drummer, we have to hang onto the lead singer he brought us. Cold? I guess you could see it that way. But, the decision to stay will be the lead singer's. And the old drummer has 2-3 other bands anyway...plus a ton of students.
The long and the short of it is, honesty is the best policy.
Always strive to improve the band, and try to balance that with loyalties and friendships. If you and your mates are dissatisfied with a member in the band, and that member cant/wont change or improve...what choice do you have?

My .02,

S.
j

[Miles]

Done it twice. Once for a drummer, once for a singer. Both times I was the one doing the firing. Just be compassionate up front and honest. Don't beat around the bush, it will bite you later.

Make sure this person knows ahead of time that he/she is not cutting it as much as they should. This way, they're not just blindsided. Just as you would in a business situation, the player needs to know that they aren't cutting it. Even if you have another agenda in mind (bringing a new person in), I would let this person know that they're not performing up to desired level, and be honest about it.

Having said all that, it's extremely hard to do, it's stressful as hell, and I hated doing it both times. Especially since I was either the one bringing in the new awesome drummer, or taking over lead vox.

[jtm622]

How many gigs does he get?

[ecbluesman54]

Are you friends with the current singer outside of the band? if not then that will ease the burden.
BTW - A singer should never touch a guitartists amp

[BIGGERSTAFF]

It depends. If another player flat out sucks, or has become a serious liability to the band, I'd consider a replacement. I do have issues with firing folks for incremental improvements. One day that could happen to you, if there's no loyalty within the band. It's better to be in a band with folks that are good, and that you have excellent rapport with, than be in a supergroup full of raging pricks.

[kselbee]

He gets about half of our gigs (we only gig about once a month which is plenty for us). We're not really friends with him otherwise. He's almost half our age and sometimes it's hard to find common ground musically (other plus of the other singer... he's our age).

[bkd_guitarist]

...if a singer tweaked my amp i'd not only fire him...i'd drop his microphone in an unflushed toilet....

Exactly. Any singer who touched my amp on a gig would be gone immediately. Or I'd be gone, if it was his band. I've NEVER had that happen and it amazes me to hear it.

[The Guy]

i havent been in a band in about 7 years because, well, having a band is like having a girlfriend. various girlfriends. this situation is proof positive that thats the case.

the bottom line, however, is that you always need to do whats best for the music. after all, the music is what its all about, isnt it?

[Phil M]

It depends. If another player flat out sucks, or has become a serious liability to the band, I'd consider a replacement. I do have issues with firing folks for incremental improvements. One day that could happen to you, if there's no loyalty within the band. It's better to be in a band with folks that are good, and that you have excellent rapport with, than be in a supergroup full of raging pricks.

Good post with several points although it's hard to make recommendations without being there. How long has the band been together and how long has your singer been in it? It's hard to tell, but it doesn't sound like the current singer sucks, you just think this other guy might be a little better. Heck, that could happent to you. Unless there are major issues with who you currently have, I wouldn't do it.

[Caretaker]

No one should ever touch an amp that doesn`t belong to them
If there is lack of common musical ground that is an issue that should have already been addressed.
Issues with girlfriends at gigd will always be there. The band has to determine if it is worth putting up with.
If this truly is a BAND, any change should be discussed and voted on as a a band.

Having said all that, the job of new singer would have been available the minute the old singer touched my guitar or amp. Tough to sing being unconscious.

[stuagu]

everybody deserves honesty so i would give the singer you got time to shape up, the new guy that you're considering will have his own negatives that you dont know about yet... girlfriends? its all part of it, voice cracking? few of us do this for a living...
... as for letting him tweak your amps... you must be joking!:mad:

[semi-hollowbody]

sounds like your problem with the existing singer is not just his ability, but outside bs...that to me is almost worse than mediocre talent...an ok singer will still draw as much of a bar crowd as a great singer, most bar bands have mediocre to pi$$ poor singers (the ones Ive seen)...go with the one with the least drama and work on the other flaws...

[AlexF]

ok here's what you do, list the pluses and minuses (actual and potential of each), have a band meeting (without them) and take a concensus and go with it. You have to be honest if its a sacking. The one doing it (me in our bands case) ends up being unpopular in some quarters. Do I care? No I cant afford to. All I can be is honest with people, if they dont like it, that's tough. If you dont like being unpopular, you need to put that into the decision making pot as well.
Al

[Gris]

My experience of singers is that they tend to get poached easier than other members of the band, so getting a stayer who is loyal to you is important.Bingo! the prima donna effect, LOL. Definitely consider that angle. Good singers ARE like bees flitting from flower to flower...

OTOH, if it was a drummer that was head and shoulders over the old guy I'd do it in a skinny minute!

[therhodeo]

i havent been in a band in about 7 years because, well, having a band is like having a girlfriend. various girlfriends. this situation is proof positive that thats the case.


Probably best that you're not in a band then. It is alot like having a relationship. For it to work all parties have to be involved in making it happen.

[mr.blacksummer]

So we had another singer come out and jam with us and we sounded better than we've ever sounded. A couple of us are pretty geeked and really are considering making a change. But some other members are saying there's no reason to fire our existing singer... he's there, knows the material and gets some gigs. He's not without flaw though (lots of drama with his girlfriend at gigs, likes to tweek our amps, his voice cracks...).

Any opinions? Would this be a terrible thing to do? Or is it just business?

there are a few important factors here..variables.
is the new guy really committed?
is he as at least as cool (likable) as the current guy?
what does each guy REALLY bring to the table, business/gig/putting heads in the club/etc...
this kinda stuff.

in the end...rock & roll is big business...and it should always be a goal to get better, and more badass...at almost any band member cost IMHO. and any member should be on board with this....even the guy getting the boot. it should inspire him to get better at his craft.
this advice hasn't left me a trail of best-mate-ex-band-members...
but my band is always the best it can be...and honestly, that allows me to sleep better at night...and has definitely made me a better player and writer.
if the commitment is there, you like the guy, and he is THAT much better...seems the choice is made for you.
obviously be as cool and compassionate to the fella getting the boot...he might get a lot better..or get in a band you'd wanna gig with...and its just good form.
good luck,
scott

[GuitarsFromMars]

drama sux.get rid of him.

[dave s]

Trust me, the shine of the new guy will rub off more quickly than you'd imagine. If the current guy is doing the job, is easy to work with and your band is getting (and keeping) gigs, please keep him.

dave

[Luke]

Should I keep the wife or kick her to the curb? She's fattened up and sags in all the wrong places, and we don't have sex much, but the kids are use to her. Or do I stop seeing the girlfriend? Decisions decisions.......

If you are trying people out behind his back the relationship is ALREADY OVER, you are just looking for the security of having someone's arms to fall into.

[macheesmo3]

I think the things posted in this thread are one of the main reasons that music has gone to shit in this country recently. All this talk of "business" and " making the right decisions" ick.... if your music is a "product" then maybe you should go into the car sales business. I play music because I love it and it is a hell of a lot of fun. I understand that some people play for a living and that's great , but once you lose track of why you ever started playing to begin with and start talking about " business" you've lost all credibilty and have become a tool of your own design.

I think loyalty is the highest form of civilization. There is always someone better than you and always someone better than them. Once you start kicking people out expressly because there is a better guy , you have crossed the loyalty line and it could very well be you next !

[Deacon]

The whole tweaking other people's gear and chick stuff is out of line, but if you decide to fire him cause you found a "better" singer then that's what you should tell him.

Remember, though ... one great jam with a new singer doth not a perfect band member make. :puh New guy might (read: almost certainly WILL) have his own baggage too.

IMO, you just have to tell the other guy why he's being let go. It's ok to be less cruel about it ... like saying the other singer is a better fit or whatever ... but IMO you shouldn't trump up some other excuse if that's really why you're doing it.

[Ed DeGenaro]

It depends. If another player flat out sucks, or has become a serious liability to the band, I'd consider a replacement. I do have issues with firing folks for incremental improvements. One day that could happen to you, if there's no loyalty within the band. It's better to be in a band with folks that are good, and that you have excellent rapport with, than be in a supergroup full of raging pricks.
Totally agree. I look at it as with any relationship, if all I'm concerned with i "advancement" it's time for me to take a look into a mirrror.

[Tone_Terrific]

Some time ago I read a thread with an interesting philosophy put forward. The proposal was to replace any member whenever somebody better was found to be available.

It was pointed out that soon there would be a great band but NONE of them would be in it.
OTOH, trying to get yourself into the best possible playing situation may require vocalist changes. OTOOH, nobody's perfect.

[Austintone]

Here is my perspective - the front man is the most important part of the band. Good ones are hard to find. You mentioned girlfriend drama, tweaking amps, and that he is half your age (hard to find common musical ground). Those are all issues, but they can definitely be overcome with some open communication. Are you in an original band? Does he write? If this is a cover gig, and you have said that outside of the band you are not friends, I see no reason not to go for the guy that is a better fit. It sounds like you guys have already made up your mind by auditioning others behind his back. I wish I was in your spot - our singer quit 6 months ago and we are still searching for the right guy.

[mr.blacksummer]

I think the things posted in this thread are one of the main reasons that music has gone to shit in this country recently. All this talk of "business" and " making the right decisions" ick.... if your music is a "product" then maybe you should go into the car sales business. I play music because I love it and it is a hell of a lot of fun. I understand that some people play for a living and that's great , but once you lose track of why you ever started playing to begin with and start talking about " business" you've lost all credibilty and have become a tool of your own design.

I think loyalty is the highest form of civilization. There is always someone better than you and always someone better than them. Once you start kicking people out expressly because there is a better guy , you have crossed the loyalty line and it could very well be you next !

some good points.:AOK
not entirely practical..but the bit about loyalty..thats good.
unfortunately this isn't always the most inspiring situation...and for me, unless you do music with your closest musical pals, it really is a survival of the fittest kind of thing...just keeps the flame of inspiration burning brighter.
its not really a business thing as much as just wanting to staying excited or enlivened. and I agree...loyalty is a crucial factor...just have to gauge where the cutoff point is..the breaking point. JMHO

[tone4days]

another approach might be to speak with the current singer in a direct way

a) never touch our amps again, ever ... you may make a request, once, for a change - after that, our decision is final, like it or leave

b) any more distracting unprofessional drama with your gf at a gig and you are gone

c) yes, we've started looking for your replacement - you have no more leeway .. next screwup, your done

[billm408]

Option C: start a new band as a side project with the other singer and see where it goes. You may find that he's got the same issues as your current guy- you don't want jump from the frying pan to the fire. I was in a band that was in a constant stage of switching out people trying to "upgrade". It created a lot of uncertainty and distrust and eventually imploded after a short period of time.

[lhallam]

Some time ago I read a thread with an interesting philosophy put forward. The proposal was to replace any member whenever somebody better was found to be available.

It was pointed out that soon there would be a great band but NONE of them would be in it.
OTOH, trying to get yourself into the best possible playing situation may require vocalist changes. OTOOH, nobody's perfect.


Holy Cow - a Tom Terrific icon, I haven't thought of that cartoon in 40+ years!

On topic, As Tone Terrific points out, the new guy will most likely have his own B.S. to bring to the table as we all do. So you'll probably replace one annoying trait for another.

So whatever you decide, just remember that the grass is not always greener.

[sonhenry]

Hmmm, just to play devil's advocate for a second- singer touching guitar amps can also mean an unmanageable combination of a bad monitor mix and guitar players that won't turn down. Adds up to a painful throat after a long gig, and could indicate frustration from inconsiderate band mates. You won't find out if that knife cuts in both directions without a conversation. And you may replace the singer, have the same problem and have the new one quit and then really be screwed.

Make sure you understand all the issues before you can someone. 360 feedback is painful, but if you can give it, you gotta take it in return.

just sayin-

[musicman1]

Replace him. You're not the Beatles. Everyones replaceable. Someone better is a good thing. I dont consider MOST singers to really be musicians. Bands dont last forever anyway. 10, 20, 30 years from now it wont really matter so live for the day. In this shi**y economy you are lucky to have a few jobs and only the really good talent will keep working.

[Guitar Josh]

So we had another singer come out and jam with us and we sounded better than we've ever sounded. A couple of us are pretty geeked and really are considering making a change. But some other members are saying there's no reason to fire our existing singer... he's there, knows the material and gets some gigs. He's not without flaw though (lots of drama with his girlfriend at gigs, likes to tweek our amps, his voice cracks...).

Any opinions? Would this be a terrible thing to do? Or is it just business?

I'm still wondering what the question is... :)

Look, you are in this for the fun right, it sounds like it is MORE fun with the other dude. So go with him and don't look back.

[S.W.Erdnase]

...if a singer tweaked my amp i'd not only fire him...i'd drop his microphone in an unflushed toilet....

But I wonder whether "tweaked" is a euphemism for "turned me down a hair because I was at paint-blistering volumes and have no respect for the longevity of anyone else's hearing or the impact on the club's business"?

Is that what "tweaked" means? I was just wondering.

[lcjc800]

someone "tweaked" my amp













...once...

:Spank

[Millul]

Address the issues you have with your singer, directly.

After my former band dismantled, the drummer and me decided to go on together, and started searching the right guys to fill up the new band.

We found 'em, but the guitar player we found was always angry, 18 years old, and always makin' fun of me 'cause I'm short and I wear "as an old man" (I am 24, I simply wear as a man instead of as akid).
After a while, I simply told him to stop with this crap, or he was out and with some broken bones: I loved his playing, and wanted him in the band, but not as an asshole!

He stopped altogether to behave like an asshole.

I wonder why...

[S.W.Erdnase]

another approach might be to speak with the current singer in a direct way

a) never touch our amps again, ever ... you may make a request, once, for a change - after that, our decision is final, like it or leave

b) any more distracting unprofessional drama with your gf at a gig and you are gone

c) yes, we've started looking for your replacement - you have no more leeway .. next screwup, your done

I love the mighty internet tone. How about this:

another approach might be to speak with the current singer in a direct way

a) never touch our amps again, ever ... you may make a request, once, for a change - after that, our decision is final, like it or leave for lo we are the guitarists and our wrath knows no bounds. Fear us for we tweedle and wheedle mightily. Unlike the amp touching request ye may request to hear our mighty riffs at any time...

b) any more distracting unprofessional drama with your gf at a gig and you are gone, gone as the Caananites were cast from the Voodoo Lounge for taking set breaks of biblical proportions, gone as Jonah was cast from the whale like a hairball hacked from the throat of a mighty sea beast whose amp had been touched twice, gone (Ed: that's enough)

c) yes, we've started looking for your replacement - you have no more leeway .. next screwup, your done, done as the [Ed:quit it]

[FeloniousBishop]

This happened to me. Aa a band we voted out our singer. At the time he was my roomate so it ended up being a very harsh scene at my house involving Jack Daniels and tears (his).

And in the end the new singer, who was God's gift to the world and owned nothing but a microphone left us for new venture.

[S.W.Erdnase]

someone "tweaked" my amp













...once...

:Spank

Cool emoticon. Is that the guy who tweaked your amp tapping you on the shoulder because you can't hear a thing? I said, "Is that the g..." Nevermind.

[edwarddavis]

just fire him , sound like its going happen sooner or later , thats life

[edgewound]

I'm still wondering what the question is... :)

Look, you are in this for the fun right, it sounds like it is MORE fun with the other dude. So go with him and don't look back.


One thing that is more elusive than talent...is chemistry.

The band I play in has been together for nearly 20 years...same 5 guys. We're all great friends and have watched our kids grow up....we all laugh alot during our "paid hobby"....that's priceless. If it wasn't fun....especially only once a month....I'd quit and play more golf or build my hotrod.

If the new guy has a better chemistry, is closer to the same age, is more fun,....and sings better....not to mention the drama part....it sounds like a win-win-win. Maybe the new "old" guy will get more gigs for you.

The younger primadonna might learn something from your wisdom by letting him go. He might also find a better gig for himself.

Do him a favor.

[Tone Ball]

You sound like you're trying to justify breaking up with your girlfriend, pointing out reasons why it's not a good fit, her irritating habits, etc. The reality is it's probably just like that... and, just as with a bad girlfriend, you probably should break up with your singer. The reality is also that this new guy is probably going to be your "rebound" and not stick around all that long. Just a hunch... but you never know.

[DocLovett]

...if a singer tweaked my amp i'd not only fire him...i'd drop his microphone in an unflushed toilet....

Ditto.

[peachead1071]

This is why I am always either a hired gun or a feature member (my name on the group).
If a change needs to be made, weight like a member getting half the gigs or something of this nature is a real pain. I want to be able to walk or make the call.

[spectreman]

My wife, a singer, has repeatedly told me to turn down. She's never touched my amp.

[S.W.Erdnase]

My wife, a singer, has repeatedly told me to turn down. She's never touched my amp.

What are we supposed to infer from that?

[mikem]

I think the things posted in this thread are one of the main reasons that music has gone to shit in this country recently. All this talk of "business" and " making the right decisions" ick.... if your music is a "product" then maybe you should go into the car sales business. I play music because I love it and it is a hell of a lot of fun. I understand that some people play for a living and that's great , but once you lose track of why you ever started playing to begin with and start talking about " business" you've lost all credibilty and have become a tool of your own design.

I think loyalty is the highest form of civilization. There is always someone better than you and always someone better than them. Once you start kicking people out expressly because there is a better guy , you have crossed the loyalty line and it could very well be you next !

I agree with this. If the band is gigging and the other singer is cutting it, why **** with it? I hate bands that want to get rid of members just because they think they're the living shit and they want to "make it". All bullshit and the main reason I never did the music thing for a living. Loyalty rules- prima donna posers suck!

Mike

[S.W.Erdnase]

prima donna posers suck!

And you better not touch their amps!

[stratocat63]

Once you start kicking people out expressly because there is a better guy , you have crossed the loyalty line and it could very well be you next !

Definitely a slippery slope. Avoid that and start a side project, nobody gets kicked out and you get to play with the singer you like.

[tone4days]

I love the mighty internet tone. How about this:
yup, yours is better, andrews-san
:D

[lcjc800]

Cool emoticon. Is that the guy who tweaked your amp tapping you on the shoulder because you can't hear a thing? I said, "Is that the g..." Nevermind.

http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/2.gifoh, I get it...

[S.W.Erdnase]

An emoticon tells a thousand words. Aah. Happy times.

[kselbee]

But I wonder whether "tweaked" is a euphemism for "turned me down a hair because I was at paint-blistering volumes and have no respect for the longevity of anyone else's hearing or the impact on the club's business"?

Is that what "tweaked" means? I was just wondering.

When we start practice or a gig we all agree on volumes and believe it or not, NONE of us adjust our volumes (but as I mentioned, the singer may). We're all very cordial about volume. Actually more often than not I'm asking if I should turn down.

[kselbee]

Thanks for all the feedback... it's given me some new perspectives. We're going to have a band meeting on Monday but the intent is to just express some of our concerns to our existing singer without being threatening. We'll continue to occasionally jam with the other guy and wait and see what the future holds.

[RustyAxe]

So we had another singer come out and jam with us and we sounded better than we've ever sounded. A couple of us are pretty geeked and really are considering making a change. But some other members are saying there's no reason to fire our existing singer... he's there, knows the material and gets some gigs. He's not without flaw though (lots of drama with his girlfriend at gigs, likes to tweek our amps, his voice cracks...).

Any opinions? Would this be a terrible thing to do? Or is it just business?
Sure it's just business. Business can be conducted ethically, or unethically, though. Did you keep him on because he was easy and convenient (knew the set list and "gets some gigs")? Was the singer aware that the band wasn't satisfied with his performance and conduct? Was he aware that the band was looking for a replacement? It sounds like your singer was dedicated to the band, did the work of learning the set list, promoting, etc ... and was OK until this new guy arrived. Sure, he has some baggage, but doesn't everyone? If the prospective new guy is so good, why isn't he already working? And if he is, then why is he leaving his band? Lack of commitment, maybe?

The point I'm trying to make is that if the current singer was deficient that should have been made known to him, and the rest of the band (not just you) would have to concur. He should have been made aware.

Finally, you should beware. There's always someone better. Even better than YOU. What will you do when you're told, "We found someone much better than you, sorry, but you're out".

I think you just might experience a band break up (break down?) over this issue. It wouldn't be the first.

[michaelvincent]

The one point I keep wondering about is the girlfriend drama. I can't stand that nonsense. I've dealt with that before in a band with a super talented singer that just got into drama everywhere he went. After awhile the rest of us just couldn't take the constant phone calls during practice (like every 10 minutes), and the inevitable blow up arguments they'd get into at gigs before, sometimes during, and always after we'd play.

It's super unprofessional, it's annoying, and it puts them off their game because instead of getting psyched up to gig they've been outside the whole night having a screaming match with their girlfriend. Nobody wants to see someone else's dirty laundry, especially the rest of the band. People that don't have a concept of a proper place and time for everything almost always end up being a liability, whether it be in attitude, drive, being on time, contributing, or just not improving over time. Band time is band time and it isn't acceptable to bring all of your other problems with you.

[FuzzOff]

This is an easy one. If you're seriously making a run at the big time, you should never pass up a chance to upgrade your talent (if the difference is significant.) I would also caution you to do a thorough assessment...we all know there's more to success than talent. Great musicians that don't show up or get high all the time aren't worth. This is a business. Companies upgrade their talent the same way. It ain't always pretty, but you need to ask yourself how bad you want it.

If you're doing it for fun. personal relationships should be the first consideration.

[vhollund]

I dont seperate personal from professional that much

In music you have to be able to rely on the people you play with to be positive and open and share the music. Atleast in your own band that is.

If he is your friend tell him you are considering it, and why, and see what happens

If he starts to progress I would keep him, it shows that he has got guts
I'd rather play with a musician that is motivated and couragous for progress
Than some talented but lazy douche that doesnt have the rigth attitude towards beeing an artist.

I have let two major projcts go the last 5 years because I ended up loosing alot of energy in front of other peoples ego-plow everytime an effort had to be made for progress.
I learned my lesson (see my signature)

[pbradt]

I think the things posted in this thread are one of the main reasons that music has gone to shit in this country recently. All this talk of "business" and " making the right decisions" ick.... if your music is a "product" then maybe you should go into the car sales business.

If you've ever made a record, a real record, you'd realize this statement doesn't hold up in the real world. Even on a shoestring budget, there has to be attention paid to the bottom line and making good decisions. They don't call it the music "business" for nothing.

If you're happy making music purely for the love of it, and most of the time that's how it is for me, that's fine, but when we made a record, it was a promotional tool, but it was also considered to be a potential revenue stream and as such, we (mostly *I*) had to make decisions about how things sounded, what got used, what got cut, and so forth.

I'm proud of the record and since the band broke up, I own it (I bought out the other guys) and I'm still promoting it.

But it IS a business when you get beyond being a garage band and you have to make decisions based on money, unless you're wealthy (think Kevin Bacon and Dennis Quaid) and it's just a vanity project.

[FuzzOff]

If you've ever made a record, a real record, you'd realize this statement doesn't hold up in the real world. Even on a shoestring budget, there has to be attention paid to the bottom line and making good decisions. They don't call it the music "business" for nothing.

If you're happy making music purely for the love of it, and most of the time that's how it is for me, that's fine, but when we made a record, it was a promotional tool, but it was also considered to be a potential revenue stream and as such, we (mostly *I*) had to make decisions about how things sounded, what got used, what got cut, and so forth.

I'm proud of the record and since the band broke up, I own it (I bought out the other guys) and I'm still promoting it.

But it IS a business when you get beyond being a garage band and you have to make decisions based on money, unless you're wealthy (think Kevin Bacon and Dennis Quaid) and it's just a vanity project.

Spot on. Last time I checked, consumers still BUY records, just like toothpaste, cars, nintendos, etc. I classified my response to say "if you're serious about your music" then don't feel bad about upgrading your talent. I guess we should all do this for free.

[pbradt]

Spot on. Last time I checked, consumers still BUY records, just like toothpaste, cars, nintendos, etc. I classified my response to say "if you're serious about your music" then don't feel bad about upgrading your talent. I guess we should all do this for free.

If the economy keeps going the way it is, I think live local music will make a comeback. Granted it'll be bars, but when times are bad, people drink, they want to forget their worries. A lot of musicians played a lot of gigs during the Depression and since we're heading toward another like a runaway semi truck with its brake lines burned up, we might as well work on our chops.

[Lightningrt]

Thanks for all the feedback... it's given me some new perspectives. We're going to have a band meeting on Monday but the intent is to just express some of our concerns to our existing singer without being threatening. We'll continue to occasionally jam with the other guy and wait and see what the future holds.

I'd say you made the right decision there.