WCR's in a PRS Cu 22

[trixterq]

I recently traded for a really nice Cu 22 that looks brand new. Unfortunately, with the stock Dragons it has installed, the guitar to me sounds fairly lifeless compared to my Cu 24, 513 and my Suhr. I have been reading a lot lately about WCr's--the Darkbursts, the Crossroads, the Godwoods anfd the various combos, all of which get glowing reviews. Any advice from anyone on what they would recommend? I like to play mainly rock and blues--Clapton, ZZ, Jimmie Vaughan, Warren Haynes, Allman Bros style of music.

[stvnscott]

I would go with Darkbursts. I have a set in one of my CU22s that I changed over to McCarty switching. I love them.

[Bluesbuff]

You will love the darkbursts, I have them in a Carvin CT4 (PRS-like) guitar, mahogany/maple, ebony fingerboard. It's a pretty bright guitar on it's own. The Darkbursts brought it to life, perfect for my blues/rock band.

[trixterq]

How about the cossroads/darkburst combop or the darkburst /godwood combo?

Any thoughts?

[atomicmassunit]

I tried the Goodwoods and didn't like them as much as the Dragon IIs. Lollar Imperials and Tom Holmes both sounded great.

[trixterq]

I dont know much about the imperials or the Holmes

[bforest4]

Don't forget the Fillmore's, hot, yet smooth and clear, get them if the guitar sounds dark or muddy. Goodwoods have more of a mid bump, very cool, especially if your guitar sounds thin right now.

[Dearthian]

I've heard the Darkbursts in a friend's CU22 and they sound really good (especially the neck).
I have a Godwood/Darkburst in my Singlecut and they sound awesome (I really like the Godwood in the bridge).

[Fixxxer]

The Godwood bridge is a great pickup, very hard to beat. The darkbursts are great as well, and were the first set I bought from Jim. I'd never think of taking them out for anything. I have them wired for out of phase in the middle and they convert to single cuts with a push pull. Most versatile guitar I own.

Good luck, you really can't go wrong.

[Macman]

How about the cossroads/darkburst combop or the darkburst /godwood combo?

Any thoughts?

I have a set of DB neck/GW Bridge in my Hollowbody 1. Granted its not exactly a CU22 which I used to own, but in the HB1, it sounded much clearer, more punch and balanced than the stock McATs and PRS #10s I had in them previously. The single coil tones really shine in the neck positions. I had mine wired to a mini toggle that does inner/full hum/outer coils to get me into Thinline Strat/Tele type ballparks. Very nice and the single coils do sound very strat like imho. Does make the guitar pop out notes better in my opinion.

Many have also said that they think the Shredders are great. I have a set in my Brian Moore CP90 and they do sound killer (its a 25.5 scale btw). Clear as a bell when you roll the volume down and full of attitude when full up. Single coil tones are great and the low mids do pop out quite a bit more when was what I was looking for. Really blessed to have found a set since they are rare and Jim doesn't make them anymore.

Was talking to Jim about possibly another set of pickups and he suggested a set of Iron Mans for the PRS. Yes they are hot but knowing Jim, they will clean up good when you roll the volume down.

Some Pics for ya...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/veryloudah/DSC00351.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/veryloudah/DSC00304-1.jpg

[stvnscott]

One comment about the WCRs that you need to consider. They are only lightly potted, so they tend to feed back if you play with a lot of gain or medium gain at very high volumes. They way they are potted contributes a lot to their sound, but you should be aware of the fact before you buy.

[paintguy]

One comment about the WCRs that you need to consider. They are only lightly potted, so they tend to feed back if you play with a lot of gain or medium gain at very high volumes. They way they are potted contributes a lot to their sound, but you should be aware of the fact before you buy.

Are you sure? I use high gain most of time and never once had one feedback problem with the numerous Wcr's I have.:confused:

[stvnscott]

Are you sure? I use high gain most of time and never once had one feedback problem with the numerous Wcr's I have.:confused:

I recall Jim explaining this to me once upon a time. My PRS with DarkBursts does give me feedback headaches, whereas my PRS Dragon IIs does not. I could check into doing some extra shielding and see if that helps.

[boogieman90]

Jim's a great guy. Consult with him first about your desired tone, axe, and style of music, etc. He steered me to his "Billy Buckers" for my LP. Great improvement over stock pups. These are not listed on his site yet, but incredible tone/sound upgrade!

[trixterq]

I also have heard that with my PRS Cu22, given it has a five position switch, I am going to have to use the 4 conductors, switch one of the magnets and possibly change out the caps to get the 5 positions to work properly and to get the full effect of the WCRs on my PRS. Is this true, and is there anything else you can foresee me having to do? Or something alternate you would recommend short of putting in another small toggle switch?

Ron

[WCR]

Usually, the only time there has been a feedback issue is when covers are used, and not installed by me.
As an example, I went to see Iced Earth in SF the other night. Mostly all IceBuckers both covered and open. It was the LOUDEST concert I can even remember. I actually for the 1st time ever had to use earplugs half-way through it !! lol
But not even one single squeal the whole show and that is some extreme high-gain stuff Jon uses. I do NOT use wax (huge tone-killer in my book), I have my own material I came up with that works a lot better which still allows the resonations of the axe itself come through and won't suppress the character of that individual guitar..
Other things can cause that as well. The axe may be SO resonant that the entire pickup will "shiver" ( you can actually see it move) and not just a bad coil or improperly installed cover. In that case I have found using surgical tubing instead of springs helps alot. Also, I have had more then 1 tube do that to me as well. When the axe would start squealling, I grabbed the tubes one at a time and when I found the culprit, it would stop shrieking.

[stvnscott]

Usually, the only time there has been a feedback issue is when covers are used, and not installed by me.
As an example, I went to see Iced Earth in SF the other night. Mostly all IceBuckers both covered and open. It was the LOUDEST concert I can even remember. I actually for the 1st time ever had to use earplugs half-way throught it !! lol
But not even one single squeal the whole show and that is some extreme high-gain stuff Jon uses. I do NOT use wax (huge tone-killer in my book), I have my own material I came up with that works a lot better which still allows the resonations of the axe itself come through and won't suppress the character of that individual guitar..
Other things can cause that as well. The axe may be SO resonant that the entire pickup will "shiver" ( you can actually see it move) and not just a bad coil or improperly installed cover. In that case I have found using surgical tubing instead of springs helps alot. Also, I have had more that 1 tube do that to me as well. When the axe would start squealling, I grabbed the tubes one at a time and when I found the culprit, it would stop shreiking.

Word from the man himself! Thanks for chiming in!

Mine are in fact covered. I'll try pulling the covers off to see if it helps. Everything is dead silent until I plug into a high gain amp like my Soldano or one of my brutal homebrews. Then things start to squeal.

The Fillmores I had in my LP did the same thing. They were also covered. Man. I miss those pups. Just never could bond with the guitar. My Crossroads don't do it (also covered). Dunno. Could be a combination of the covers and the particular guitar.

Do you realize that out of 9 guitars, 5 have WCR pups? Hmmm...

[trixterq]

Jim, I am thrilled that you added to the thread. I have been studying your website and listening to the soundclips. I love the Crossroads set, but wonder if I will get a fuller sound with the crossroads/darkburst set (no soundclips on this or the darkburst/godwoodcombo that I could find . As I wrote earlier, I have read that with guitars such as my PRS Cu22, i will need the 4 lead version, PLUS, I may have to do some special things, i.e. special wiring, flipping magnets etc to ensure that I can still use the five position switch on my guitar. i have also heard that I may need to put in new caps etc, to really realize the full sound and effect of the WCr's. Can you please shed a little light on this. I would be happy to speak with you directly during the week sometime, but right now, I would like to have a bit more info, if you have the time.

Thanks,
Ron

[WCR]

Word from the man himself! Thanks for chiming in!

Mine are in fact covered. I'll try pulling the covers off to see if it helps. Everything is dead silent until I plug into a high gain amp like my Soldano or one of my brutal homebrews. Then things start to squeal.

The Fillmores I had in my LP did the same thing. They were also covered. Man. I miss those pups. Just never could bond with the guitar. My Crossroads don't do it (also covered). Dunno. Could be a combination of the covers and the particular guitar.

Do you realize that out of 9 guitars, 5 have WCR pups? Hmmm...

What can I say Brutha, you have great taste !!! lol Yeah, if I put the covers on, there is usually no problem. In fact, it is EASY for anyone to do it themselves. I have had a good amount of guys tell me they squeal, and turns out they did the covers themselves without knowing the "trick." I thought I had invented that, but my Florida Lab Rat told me Clapton's tech does the same thing...... Damn...!!!
I really need to try some of your amps. Let me know if you are going to be at NAMM, or the Greensboro Jam, or the LA AmpShow next year... etc. I myself really like high gain amps. Can't play worth a damn, but it's fun anyhow hahaha
I heard it helps to move away from the amp.......( hey, you KNOW I gotta give ya a jab or two.... lol)

Ron !
I'll tell ya what. By FAR the biggest seller I have is the American Steele set. Covers a HUGE range, used my Marshall Tucker, Buckcherry, Iced Earth, etc. Crossroads neck, Godwood bridge.
And I TRY to convince everyone that if you are putting in some high-quality pickups, what the hell are you doing leaving the stock electronics in there?
If you read this post-thread, it will give you a good idea I think.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=456292

Yes, for a 5 position you will want to get a coupla 4 conductors, one for each pickup. I have the perfect match in pots and caps on my site, and you only have to ask if you have any questions at all. I am almost ALWAYS in the shop, so calling me is never a problem. I also usually get right back to anyone leaving messages. I am NOT one of those guys that will leave anyone hanging. At least not on purpose.......hahahaha
I really can't do any selling here, just offer help, so I hope I didn't piss anyone off...... ;-)

If you want, I can build with the magnets installed opposite. Or, you can just do it yourself if you prefer. The way that I build these, it only takes a few minutes to do, and usually without un-soldering anything.

And, as far as clips for combos, you can usually hear something from either the neck or bridge pups by going to the correct section. For example, the American Steele. Go to Crossroads for the neck, and go to Godwoods for the bridge.

Man, you guys caught me on a rare day... I thought I'd relax some today for a change, but noooooooo............:rotflmao

[stvnscott]

Hey Jim. While you're here, let's make sure I have these wired right since your color scheme is a little different IIRC.

This is a set of DarkBursts with 4 conductor wiring. I bought the PRS wiring kit from RS with a 3 way switch and coil tap on the tone control.

I have the greens and shields going to ground, the blacks going to the 3 way switch, and the reds and whites going to the coil tap switch, where they are switched to ground.

Is this right?

Also, what is the trick for installing covers? I put the cover on each pickup and used a Quick Clamp to hold it together tightly while I put a bead of solder on each side.

Is there a better way to do it? I'm all ears! I really want to keep the covers on because the guitar looks so damn cool that way...

Do you think there is any value in shielding the pickup cavities with tape and running a ground wire back to the main control cavity?

[HEY!YOU!]

is there anything else you can foresee me having to do? Or something alternate you would recommend short of putting in another small toggle switch?Ron[/QUOTE]

For the music you play, you need a LP not a prs.

[WCR]

Hey Jim. While you're here, let's make sure I have these wired right since your color scheme is a little different IIRC.

This is a set of DarkBursts with 4 conductor wiring. I bought the PRS wiring kit from RS with a 3 way switch and coil tap on the tone control.

I have the greens and shields going to ground, the blacks going to the 3 way switch, and the reds and whites going to the coil tap switch, where they are switched to ground.

Is this right?

Also, what is the trick for installing covers? I put the cover on each pickup and used a Quick Clamp to hold it together tightly while I put a bead of solder on each side.

Is there a better way to do it? I'm all ears! I really want to keep the covers on because the guitar looks so damn cool that way...

Do you think there is any value in shielding the pickup cavities with tape and running a ground wire back to the main control cavity?

Sounds right. On this page, you will see the 4-conductor color-code, and pix-instructions on the covers.
http://www.wcrguitar.com/Install.html
The way you put them on is just lacking the silicone. You'll see how to do it there. Very easy, and eliminates the covers as a microphonic problem. You just need a spot of solder on them. They ain't goin' anywhere.. ;-)

Shielding never hurt anything, though I mostly do it in single-coil axes.
I have found this stuff to be the very best and easiest way to do it. Go to this site:
www.lessemf.com (http://www.lessemf.com)
and order the smallest can of CuPro-Cote Coating.
It will last through several guitars easily, and only takes 1 coat and about an hour to dry. WAY better than the black stuff that most guys use and know about, that takes at least 3 coats with 24 hours between each one.No comparison between the 2, the CuPro-Cote rules in my book. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

[sanhozay]

Fillmore & Darkburst pickups are awesome sounding pickups! Identify the sonic attributes of your guitar & then match the pickups to voice in concert with your objective.

[omni]

What set would you suggest for a chambered LP? I'm fixing to order a set.. I like Schenker and ols school Dave Meneketti.

[stvnscott]

Sounds right. On this page, you will see the 4-conductor color-code, and pix-instructions on the covers.
http://www.wcrguitar.com/Install.html
The way you put them on is just lacking the silicone. You'll see how to do it there. Very easy, and eliminates the covers as a microphonic problem. You just need a spot of solder on them. They ain't goin' anywhere.. ;-)

Shielding never hurt anything, though I mostly do it in single-coil axes.
I have found this stuff to be the very best and easiest way to do it. Go to this site:
www.lessemf.com (http://www.lessemf.com)
and order the smallest can of CuPro-Cote Coating.
It will last through several guitars easily, and only takes 1 coat and about an hour to dry. WAY better than the black stuff that most guys use and know about, that takes at least 3 coats with 24 hours between each one.No comparison between the 2, the CuPro-Cote rules in my book. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif


Just to follow up on this...

I reinstalled the covers per Jim's instructions and shielded the pickup cavities in my CU22. All my noise problems are gone. I don't know which one did the trick, but all is well with my axe now.

I also want to clarify that I only had a feedback problem when playing with very high gain, which I almost never do. So it's not like I was suffering or anything. But now I can dime the gain on my Avenger and run through the 80's playlist with this guitar and have no worries!

What we have here is operator error, folks!

:BEER

[Eric Pykala]

I was going to email Jim, but it might be helpful to others in this thread. I have a set of Goodwoods I bought a few years ago, and was wondering what the real-world difference was between the original Goodwood and the newer Godwood? I got an outstanding PRS Singlecut 245 Artist a short while back, and while I really like the stock pickups always wonder what more Wagner magic would do. Anyone swapped the 245s for Wagners?-Eric

[WCR]

A little more meat on them yet Eric. Over 10k ...
The earlier versions were mid 9's.
And thanx for that follow up s2amps, very much appreciated. Sorry I'm so late posting this, I've just been on the busy side of things...... ;-)

[Blue Strat]

How about the cossroads/darkburst combop or the darkburst /godwood combo?

Any thoughts?

I've got a Darkburst in the neck and Goodwood (earlier version) in the bridge. I find the Goodwood (with no cover) VERY bright in my CU22...must have a lot to do with the guitar. I've even changed to an alnico II magnet and still find it too bright. I may resort to using a small capacitor across that one pickup.

[big mike]

darkburst /godwood combo?

Any thoughts?

That would be my choice. Probably with an A2 loaded bridge pup.

With the trem (I assume?) I think it benefits from a bit bigger low end push of the GW.

[big mike]

I've got a Darkburst in the neck and Goodwood (earlier version) in the bridge. I find the Goodwood (with no cover) VERY bright in my CU22...must have a lot to do with the guitar. I've even changed to an alnico II magnet and still find it too bright. I may resort to using a small capacitor across that one pickup.

Weird. Just a bright guitar I guess? The A2 GW is what I tame a bright axe with.

[Blue Strat]

Weird. Just a bright guitar I guess? The A2 GW is what I tame a bright axe with.

Yeah, I can't figure it out. Mine is a GOODWood (earlier, lower wind version according to Jim WCR). Maybe that's the difference.

[amc]

I put a Darkburst at the neck position and a Fillmore at the bridge in my
'99 brazilian-necked McCarty.

Jim winds some exceptional pickups ............

[trixterq]

Agreed. In addition to the American Steele set that I had installed in my SG (listened to you guys about using a LP for these rather than my cu22), that by the way really has really transformed my SG, I was able to get one of the three sets of WCR "BillyBuckers" ( copy of what Jim made for Billy Yates) off eBay. I bought the long shaft half kit (pot and cap set) from WCR and now will have these installed in my Gibson LP DC.

Just one final note: When I installed the Americam Steeles in my SG, on Jim Wagner's suggestion, I switched out the original vol and tone electronics and installed his short shaft full kit. given what I have read from other TGPers, WCR'spot and caps set makes a very big difference.

[oscar100]

def cross roads neck

if you want extra phat bridge go good wood

id say an underwound darkburst myself