What to do when you can't get that solo right?

[jjboogie]

I have been playing a certain original song with my wife's band for a few years. For some reason I think I only was happy with the solo once and of course when that happened the tape was not rolling!

Now that we are recording I have about 30 takes of solos....and I hate them all pretty much.

Wondering how to step back and think outside the box or even really write something that fits the context of the song. For some reason this one really gets under my skin.

What do you do when you are stuck in a rut with your solo within a certain part of a song? Now its recording time and the rut seems deeper! :worried

[Gargloic]

Use another guitar, it sometimes changes dynamic and could bring sparkles

Good luck

Gargloic

[seiko]

Bunch of tactics for me:

- Cop the vocal melody and extend from there
- Find one note that works and play that listening to how it plays against the rhythm of the song and what sounds exciting/cool, rebuild it from there.
- Think about the "shape" of the solo and where it should go.
- Reverse what I had been playing.
- Try and play the solo with no pitched notes, just swells and scrapes.
- Start with the wrongest note I can find and try and work back to finish on a really "in" chord tone or vice versa
- Imagine what I would play if I was playing another instrument

[Bearded]

- Start with the wrongest note I can find and try and work back to finish on a really "in" chord tone or vice versa


We used to call this the "jazz" method :rotflmao

Seriously, though, great tips!

[derekd]

Anytime I feel my soloing in general is stale on all tunes or particular tune, I always default to using a simple 3-4 note motif, play it 2 or more times and then alter it, coming back to the original idea each time.

This method has never failed me, and always makes for interesting, but never spectacular solos. It is like "solos for idiots", and frankly I am surprised I don't hear more people do it.

Arguably the greatest musical piece is just a 4 note theme taken to amazing heights...Beethoven's 5th.

[jiml]

Open tunings, different tones (amps, guitars). Play it acoustic, that always helps me change things up..

[Shiny McShine]

I have been playing a certain original song with my wife's band for a few years. For some reason I think I only was happy with the solo once and of course when that happened the tape was not rolling!

Now that we are recording I have about 30 takes of solos....and I hate them all pretty much.

Wondering how to step back and think outside the box or even really write something that fits the context of the song. For some reason this one really gets under my skin.

What do you do when you are stuck in a rut with your solo within a certain part of a song? Now its recording time and the rut seems deeper! :worried

Neil Young has the solution for this: Alway roll tape whenever playing

[Joe Boy]

Break the solo time down into four parts.
Write your parts or notes thinking about how the drummer is hearing it.
Give him something to push and punch up the solo.

Then smile and look pretty as all the girlies start screaming.
Works everytime.

[The Guy]

try humming a solo. . . you will usually hum something differently than you would pick it.

[funkycam]

sing a solo.
another cool idea that can help is make a loop of the progression in a different key at a different speed & jam to that.
are there any parts that are keepers from the originals? CAn you work to link the good parts with new parts?

[90wreck]

Play melody.
Stay within the major scale that is related/ play it safe / minimalistic.
Play through the changes adding a different riff for each chord.
Last, Throw a capo on, play it in a different position and use alot of open strings/droning or BG style.

Finally...whip out the baritone or tune down a whole tone and that will take you in a whole nother direction.
Hope this helps!

[shane88]

change something.... step outside the thing, do something else, forget about it + come back in fresh

[darth_vader]

Take another song in the same key or with a similar chord progression and use it as a backing track. Play a solo over that other song - it doesn't have to be a great solo, jsut something that fits pretty well. Now, take that new solo and play it over the song you're having trouble with. See if anything jumps out to your ear and build on it.

Another good idea is to get someone else to play a solo over it and see if they do something that sparks your imagination and gets you going in a new direction. Often when I've done more than a few solos over a given progression I tend to fall into repetitive patterns without even realizing it and then no mater how many different take I do I just can't get something fresh and interesting. The key is to find a way to break out of that trap.

[drfrankencopter]

The key is to find a way to break out of that trap.

Agreed.

My suggestion is to roll tape, and try to play the absolute worst solo you can. Listen back to it, then try and play one even worse. It clears the head...and is usually good for a laugh, and in rare cases you can end up with something cool from it.

I remember one tune I was working on, a happy upbeat major key thing, and I just couldn't string together a solo on it. I gave up trying to make something fit, and ended up playing that was mostly percussive muted stums and out of key (and out of tune) unison bends, finally ending in a flurry of notes (mostly in key). Well, whatever it was, it worked for me and I kept alot of the ideas from that take.

Cheers, and good luck

Kris

[Guitar Slinger6]

I am kind of going through a simular thing now. I am changing my mood and the way I think when I play. Trying a different trajectory has helped me in a new approach. If you find something that really works for you let me know, good luck.

[HurricaneJesus]

Just think to yourself "What would Jim Campilongo do?"

[The Golden Boy]

Years ago I was in a band, and we were recording a demo (back when you went to "the studio" to do these sort of things) and I'd had the beginning and the end of the solo perfect in mind. It was the middle section- it was supposed to be a nutty fretetic type thing, and I didn't want it to be a pentatonic wank fest, typical of what I would normally do if I didn't have a clear idea of what I wanted. The day we were going in to do it I had been listening to Mountain, and specifically "Don't Look Around." I liked the way he did that hammer on/pull off thing and the bits around that- so I took the hammer on/pull off idea and dragged that into the right key, and rolled the middle section of the solo to fit the hammer on section and roll into the end.

So, basically, I took what I liked of "my" solo, took inspiration from someone else's solo, and constructed something that fit around that idea. I wouldn't have thought to do that Leslie West hammer on thing on my own, and once I had that in my head- it allowed me to follow a different thought pattern.

[Ulysses]

This may sound trite but if a tune fights me off for 20 or more takes and nothing is happening I just assume the song doesn't want a solo, or at least not from me and let someone else have it. Persistence is a noble thing but there's a time to walk away. In my later years I'm discovering that we get along better if I let music have its say from time to time.

[Lightningrt]

How about the engineer gives you a backing track of the song, then record the solo at home in your own time.

Use a Pod or Tonelab, whatever, put the headphones on, screw around, record something over and over whilst relaxed in your own environment.

You'll be amazed at how creative you can be without the pressure of "having" to nail the solo in the studio.

I could be wrong.

+1

Yep, mood is everything. Inspiration comes at different times of the day,and sometimes when you least expect it.

Is there no way you have a vague idea of that first solo you did?

You never know, it may only be your rose-tinted memory that thinks the first one was so good - happens to me sometimes when I hear back stuff I think I did really well, only to find it wasn't so good. It was how I felt that I remember rather than the notes.

Phew, heavy!

By the way, some excellent ideas here folks, mine wasn't much use, but great thread anyway!

[RichieRich]

Bunch of tactics for me:

- Cop the vocal melody and extend from there
- Find one note that works and play that listening to how it plays against the rhythm of the song and what sounds exciting/cool, rebuild it from there.
- Think about the "shape" of the solo and where it should go.
- Reverse what I had been playing.
- Try and play the solo with no pitched notes, just swells and scrapes.
- Start with the wrongest note I can find and try and work back to finish on a really "in" chord tone or vice versa
- Imagine what I would play if I was playing another instrument

fantastical input.

[seiko]

fantastical input.

Thanks, of course, my co-guitarist enjoys bridges with a stoopid amount of chord changes in them so the "one note that fits" approach can be a challenge. :D

[RichieRich]

Thanks, of course, my co-guitarist enjoys bridges with a stoopid amount of chord changes in them so the "one note that fits" approach can be a challenge. :D

I've come to really embrace the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) approach. It's amazing how much more an easy, melodic solo captures a listeners ear over bunch of fretboard masturbation.

[VikingAmps]

Bunch of tactics for me:

- Cop the vocal melody and extend from there
- Find one note that works and play that listening to how it plays against the rhythm of the song and what sounds exciting/cool, rebuild it from there.
- Think about the "shape" of the solo and where it should go.
- Reverse what I had been playing.
- Try and play the solo with no pitched notes, just swells and scrapes.
- Start with the wrongest note I can find and try and work back to finish on a really "in" chord tone or vice versa
- Imagine what I would play if I was playing another instrument

Those are all GREAT thoughts!

[Derwood]

Can you hear it in your head while listening to the song and not playing along?
If so, try to figure out what you are hearing. If not, maybe the song doesn't really need a solo.

[Phil M]

I'm making some assumptions about what kind of solos you're attempting, but try something completely different. Try a chord solo with chord fragments and arpeggios. See if that gets you where you want to be. Sort of that old cliche of a minin song within the song.

Hard to give advice without actually hearing the song or what you're playing...

[haymaker]

I'm in the same boat with the cats that say "hum" or "sing" the solo. Play a backing track of the song and record yourself humming or singing a solo over it. Then go back and listen to your vocal rendition of the solo and figure it out on guitar. I've come up with some real nice 'not my typical' phrases this way and I've always been satisfied and surprised by the results.

[jgyn]

Feedback.

[DocLovett]

I ask my singer and my bass player for input, both have great melodic sense and often give me great ideas to build on.

[rwe333]

Investigate some new inspirations: read up on music theory, buy some music you wouldn't usually, try some new gear, listen harder, avoid your standard approach, seek some input from those you respect, don't worry about "the one that got away" as there's more where that came from, etc...

[Todd Lynch]

Great advice, Wayne.

[Guitar55]

Try starting the solo at different points in the measure or on an upbeat.

[T.Wesley]

Improvise!

--chiba

[Tomo]

I have been playing a certain original song with my wife's band for a few years. For some reason I think I only was happy with the solo once and of course when that happened the tape was not rolling!

Now that we are recording I have about 30 takes of solos....and I hate them all pretty much.

Wondering how to step back and think outside the box or even really write something that fits the context of the song. For some reason this one really gets under my skin.

What do you do when you are stuck in a rut with your solo within a certain part of a song? Now its recording time and the rut seems deeper! :worried

First of all, for your recording, you don't need to do something on the spot.

You may want to prepare something... think about that tune... emotional aspect, pacing... building.... not so much specific lick...

If you play this tune or similar tune (similar chord progression) in different key... your solo still sounds same? Penta box? or when you take your solo.. even slightly... think about pentatonic ? name, shape? and you look at fretboard... then ... there is problem about your soloing concept (not about this song or...) over all.

30 is too much takes. When you can get 3-4 takes .. no good one. Take a walk or work on different tune or do your home work more... You seems working very hard ... one hard way?

Sing your solo... do not visualize at all.

Tomo

[RichieRich]

Sing your solo... do not visualize at all.

Tomo

I love that. Good stuff, Tomo!

[Tomo]

I love that. Good stuff, Tomo!

Thanks. I enjoy and learn from everyone at TGP! Very cool place.

I teach performance course at Berklee so I find often students who watch fingerboard instead of audiences... eye contact to people when you talk to person? I do. I do same way on guitar playing. Listen and talk!

Tomo

[harryjmic]

For me coping a good solo has to do with the rhythm of the band and not the chords played. Try playing a solo with just the drummer only, if your having trouble here the music won't make any difference.

When our band plays Superstition I usually sound kind of mediocore, but on other tunes I will kill. For whatever reason the pulse of Superstition just leaves me dry.

[jjboogie]

Thanks everyone for your input! So much great advice!

I originally was wanking across all six strings using minor pentatonic (my default scale) then I decided to try a straight dorian feel and my wife's ears perked up and she thought it sounded really sexy and more emotional. She did insist that I simplify what I was doing like many of you stated here.

Then instead of moving from low to high across all six strings I tried only using the top two forcing me to phrase in a completely different manner!

Anyways I finally got something I really liked and fits the songs context......and as it turned out I tried the Dorian thing several takes earlier but for some reason overlooked it.....stubborn I guess.

This is a very helpful thread and I hope it carries on!

peace
jj

[ndemattheis]

Probably my best performance playing lead (admittedly few and far bewteen) came following a telephone argument with my wife that left me angry and frustrated. Literally minutes later I was channeling these raw emotions into my playing and I actually surprised myself. I don't think I have ever come close to this playing since.

[mitch236]

My suggestion is to roll tape, and try to play the absolute worst solo you can. Listen back to it, then try and play one even worse.Kris

I heard a story (and I don't attest to its validity) that Journey was recording "Who's Cryin Now" and Neil was blazing away at the solo and the band was like, "can't you play something nice???" and Neil decided to play the worst solo he could and as slowly as he could, and the rest is history!!!!

[Brett Valentine]

Lot's of great suggestions (I will use some myself).

+1 on doing a take just playing the melody. Then do a take where you embelish the melody just a little bit. Sometimes that's all you need.

You can also play the "melody" take back and try playing a solo against that. You'll be "distracted from yourself" playing off the other guitar.

You can also concentrate on playing only when you exhale (like a singer or a horn player).

If you use a pick, put it down and try playing with your fingers; again, not anything earth shaking, just something different.

[Brett Valentine]

Thanks, of course, my co-guitarist enjoys bridges with a stoopid amount of chord changes in them so the "one note that fits" approach can be a challenge. :D


A good trick to that which works for me is to find the common notes in the progression and try to come up with a new melodic line that fits. It starts sort of like "fit the pieces in the puzzle" but it gives you a framework you can move around in pretty well.

[gainiac]

Right (picking) hand...........

The hell with the pitches. Start just grooving with what's going on both rhythmically and dynamically. Once you have a feel working then add "notes".

[Tone_Terrific]

Plagiarize.
The good stuff, of course.:BOUNCE

[slopeshoulder]

1. string section
2. chooglin'