Recording 16 tracks simutaniously on my PC

[alvagoldbook]

I could use some help from you guys here. I want to be able to record 16 tracks all at once on my PC using my Cubase software. I just don't know how.

Is it possible to hook up two 8 channel presonus firewires? Should I go about this a different way? How much RAM and processing power would be required?

[killerburst]

PreSonus FireStudio Tube has 16 analog inputs (2 two tube mic pres, 8 solid state mic pres, 6 TRS line inputs).
Need a relatively fast PC 2GHz CPU/2GB RAM or better. HD speed is very important. External FW 7200RPM drive for audio recording.

[GuitarsFromMars]

kb has got it-check the presonus site and spec...that would be the best way to do it in an affordable way.You could also do it with a mixer and a single Firestudio, depending on what tracking,you need to isolate.

[alvagoldbook]

I was looking at the presonus studio live which has 16, but geez, I don't wanna drop 2 grand on 16 inputs if I can avoid it. I've been looking at the Mackie 1640, but it's irritating that it doesn't come with firewire already installed, and I've heard of reliability issues. any other suggestions guys? I'd prefer not to use line inputs if possible, and something that has decent mic-pre's..

[killerburst]

Get a FireStudio and a DigiMax D8.

[alvagoldbook]

Get a FireStudio and a DigiMax D8.

Would that give me 16 channels or 8?

[GuitarsFromMars]

a-what are you looking to iso?-how many subgroups are you trying to get on a budget?

[GP_Hawk]

With the firestudio, you could rent an 8 channel mic pre to run into the 8 line inputs...Is this a 1 time thing?

[alvagoldbook]

This is to build a long term studio and make recording a full drum kit possible.

[franksguitar]

I'm in the same situation I have analog 16 track tape machine I want to convert to digital for edits and burning and gone to a few stores and inquired and done some research. I've looked at Presonus Firestudio which is in $700 range and a Phonic firewire mixer for about $500 and seen MOTU I/o 24 with has 24 analog inputs but over $1200 and requires their card interface. I have a laptop with 2GB of ram and got a firewire card and only have now an MAudio 2 channel which is slow USB with 4 channel Cubase. I plan to purchase one of these units. If you hook up 2 firewire 8 channel units you need lightpipe to daisy chain them. My concern is preventing latency issues.

[killerburst]

16 inputs w/ mic pres. You also have another ADAT input to add another D8 should you want 24 down the road.

Would that give me 16 channels or 8?

[bigredguy]

if you can find a Digi 001 (I got mine for 200$) and a very simple 8 channel Behringer ADAT (200$) you can have 16 simultaneous and pro tools LE.

Issues-
You need a PCI Motherboard, not PCI express and you can only use up to protools 6.4 which is still an amazing rock solid build.

then edit in whatever DAW you choose.

This is my primary tracking DAW and then I edit in both PT and Logic.

good luck, check e-bay

[cochese]

What version of Cubase are you running? Not every version will support unlimited input and output.

[alvagoldbook]

What version of Cubase are you running? Not every version will support unlimited input and output.

Right now I'm just using Cubase LE, but I'm thinking of getting a better computer first, so I'll probably get some other software for it, maybe cubase 4 or pro tools or something.

[GP_Hawk]

Not sure on your budget but this Allen & Heath Zed r16 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Heath-ZED-R16-16-Ch-Firewire-Recording-Mixer-NW_W0QQitemZ160294419753QQcmdZViewItem) might be worth a look. And then add Reaper (http://www.cockos.com/reaper/) to that and you got a decent set up.

[cochese]

Cubase LE will only give you 4 outputs and it doesn't matter what interface. I now use SL3. Cubase 4 I believe should be no problem for multiple outs but I would check first. You can daisy chain the Presonus Firepod for multiple ins and outs as well as the Motu interfaces. Now whether your PC will be up to the task is a completely different story. You really need to do some research and it will probably be easiest to pick out your interfaces and recording software after you decide on a new computer.

I use Cubase SL3 with a Motu 828MKII on an IMac G5 and it works well. I started on Cubase LE and ran into the aforementioned limited number of ins and outs. Also the more advance versions of Cubase use the Nuendo Audio Engine.

[jmoose]

Right now I'm just using Cubase LE, but I'm thinking of getting a better computer first, so I'll probably get some other software for it, maybe cubase 4 or pro tools or something.

ProToolz software will only work with ProToolz hardware... and Cubase LE won't support recording of more then 4 or 8 tracks at a time though the playback is unlimited.

You need to figure out the software half of it before you can figure out the hardware... otherwise it's an exercise in futility.

Keep in mind... you don't need to hang a dozen or more mics to record drums. Place four or five in the right spots and it'll sound great unless you're into metal. If you really feel the need to use a bajillion mics you could always get a small mixer and sub things together... put the five rack toms onto two tracks and be done with it.

What gear do you own now?

[alvagoldbook]

Well, my goal here is to be able to mic a drum kit pretty standard, as you would in a studio, and still have enough to mic the room, and be able to mix everything independently later. I have a lot saved up to accomplish this, but I don't want spend more than I have to.

I'm thinking I will most likely go for Cubase 4 software, but that's only because I'm comfortable with the Cubase LE. I don't know what the pros or cons are for any other kind of software, as I've never used any of them.

I'd prefer not to get a Mac, just because I'm comfortable using a PC (and Windows). Plus, I have a lot of plugs ins that I like that I think would only work in the Windows VST environment. But if a Mac is the way to go for this, then I'll learn the operating system, no problem.

I don't know what kind of processing power would be required. :dunno All I know is the 512mb of ram I got now ain't gonna cut it, and a USB connection won't either.

I don't have nearly enough mics at the moment, but basically, I'm trying to build a barely functional studio to a real semi-pro home studio. Something that I could comfortably record bands with and get good results. I have 10 to 15 grand I can put into this, but if I could accomplish this will a lot less, I would prefer it. I'm even considering building a good drum room in my back yard, or possibly as an extension to my house.

[GuitarsFromMars]

the process you're describing needs to be looked at with a jaundiced eye-try gearslutz.com.They will guide you to where you need to go...

[cochese]

I would suggest checking out the Cubase forum as there are sections there for the different Cubase software and recording platforms.
http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/

For myself I started with Cubase LE about 3 years ago and quickly switched to Cubase SL3 which is now Studio 4. Your results may vary but I tried first with a couple of PC's and had nothing but problems. Of course I chose Firewire and maybe this was my problem (on a PC at least.) I even installed a Firewire 800/400 card on our fast PC and it was lightning fast but Windows XP began to crash. I switched to Mac and have not looked back. This is not to say that PC's are bad I just couldn't seem to make them work.

I also tried a few different interfaces. After going through a Focusrite Saffire,2 Presonus Firebox's and the Mackie Onyx I ended up with the Motu 828. The studio I do some work for uses the Motu 24IO and 2408 and those work well for more tracks. At some point though I will probably go to the RME Fireface.

Getting a computer based system up and running is not an instantaneous affair. It takes research, time, patience and money. It also helps if you have a friend who is already there who can help. You want at least 2 hard drives, as much ram as you can afford and a stable and fast system. Good luck.

[alvagoldbook]

I would suggest checking out the Cubase forum as there are sections there for the different Cubase software and recording platforms.
http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/

For myself I started with Cubase LE about 3 years ago and quickly switched to Cubase SL3 which is now Studio 4. Your results may vary but I tried first with a couple of PC's and had nothing but problems. Of course I chose Firewire and maybe this was my problem (on a PC at least.) I even installed a Firewire 800/400 card on our fast PC and it was lightning fast but Windows XP began to crash. I switched to Mac and have not looked back. This is not to say that PC's are bad I just couldn't seem to make them work.

I also tried a few different interfaces. After going through a Focusrite Saffire,2 Presonus Firebox's and the Mackie Onyx I ended up with the Motu 828. The studio I do some work for uses the Motu 24IO and 2408 and those work well for more tracks. At some point though I will probably go to the RME Fireface.

Getting a computer based system up and running is not an instantaneous affair. It takes research, time, patience and money. It also helps if you have a friend who is already there who can help. You want at least 2 hard drives, as much ram as you can afford and a stable and fast system. Good luck.

Thanks for all the great information here guys. One thing I'm considering is getting a Motu. Should I get put an analog mixer in front of the Motu? How should the mixer connect to the Motu?

[cochese]

You don't need to but it is convenient. The Motu 828 is a mixer itself and they also give you a latency free (if there is such a thing) onboard software mixer so you don't have to monitor through your recording software.

I use a little Mackie 1202VLZ Pro as an external mixer. It comes in handy. You also have to decide what you want to do in terms of preamps. For instance the Motu 828 doesn't have 16 mic pre's. It only has two but I use external mic pres anyway.

In terms of connection my Motu interface feeds my external mixer (the Mackie) which is routed to my near fields. This way I can easily adjust volumes without having to use the computer. I'm still able to use the Mackie's mic pres if I want into the Motu and I can also run the outs of the Motu into other channels of the Mackie as well. You can do it all in the box if you think that will work better for you. It's the cheapest way but not always the best.

[aram]

the process you're describing needs to be looked at with a jaundiced eye-try gearslutz.com.They will guide you to where you need to go...

definately try gearslutz.

there's a lot of very knowledgable peeps on that board.

they'll help you focus in and get the most for you money.

[aram]

also, why do you need 16 tracks for drums?

seems a bit overkill.

personally, i've never been into the sound of clse mic'd/over micd' drums- it doesn't sound natural.

[alvagoldbook]

You don't need to but it is convenient. The Motu 828 is a mixer itself and they also give you a latency free (if there is such a thing) onboard software mixer so you don't have to monitor through your recording software.

I use a little Mackie 1202VLZ Pro as an external mixer. It comes in handy. You also have to decide what you want to do in terms of preamps. For instance the Motu 828 doesn't have 16 mic pre's. It only has two but I use external mic pres anyway.

In terms of connection my Motu interface feeds my external mixer (the Mackie) which is routed to my near fields. This way I can easily adjust volumes without having to use the computer. I'm still able to use the Mackie's mic pres if I want into the Motu and I can also run the outs of the Motu into other channels of the Mackie as well. You can do it all in the box if you think that will work better for you. It's the cheapest way but not always the best.

That's what I was thinking, mostly using a mixer as something to make things more handy, but most importantly for the mic pres.

I'll take a look at that other board.

The idea behind this is to record myself, but also have the option of recording other bands. And for that reason, it helps to have options since people have different tastes. I personally like the sound of drums in a good sounding room myself. Been thinking of experimenting with the recorderman technique.

[jmoose]

the process you're describing needs to be looked at with a jaundiced eye-try gearslutz.com.They will guide you to where you need to go...

As long as you take everything said there with a HUGE grain of salt...

:tapedshut

(I used to be a moderator there... used to... two key words)


Some random thoughts... $15k may seem like a lot of money, but it really isn't. Especially not when you consider building a room. That alone can & will eat the entire budget. Before doing anything you really need to examine your needs & desires, figure out how you'd like to work... ie; tracking bands or solo artists... Do you want to mix in a computer or would you rather have an analog mixer? How about compatibility with other studios? Are you working only on your own materail or do you need to talk to the rest of the world? How about midi & virtual instruments? Or is it all real instruments?

What level of quality are you aiming for in the finished product?

One solid 2-channel micamp will set you back $1500 or so... now, multiply that times a bunch of channels, add some outboard gear... cabling & patchbay alone could be $2000 or more... usually more. Headphones & cue system...

The "real" versions of Cubase are great. As good, if not better then PT depending on your needs. I've been running SX3 on a dedicated PC w/motu PCI interfaces for just over three years now and it's been great. Totally stable, no blue screen crashes. A large chunk of getting a PC to work right for audio is dedicating a machine to that purpose. No internet, no MS office... none of it. Do that and 95% of the problems go away.

You'll want and need a mixer of some sort in the rig... at the very least, for cue mixes & to feed the control room monitors. Personally, I much prefer working on a large format analog desk over working in the box. Not only to get around latency & control issues, but every mixerless setup I've used (many) has been cumbersome at best in a tracking situation as the function of the mixer is now split between several boxes.

Not to mention... that at least for rock music, which is all I do... working inside the DAW sounds pretty lousy. Got no balls. That, and half the mixing techniques I use don't even work. Maybe in another 5-10 years that plug-in delay compensation will be sorted out...

Somewhere between $3000-5000 could get you a hell of a desk these days... loaded with 24 or 32 great micpres and EQ. Maybe even a patchbay & some cabling! Of course, it might (read: probably) need some work & refurbishment which will add to the cost... but it'll be the heart of the studio for many years and is not a place to skimp.

Or, you could get a little 8 channel mixer and use it for cue mixes & whatnot. Either one is valid.

For me, the DAW is basically a giant tape machine & submixer. Nothing more, nothing less.