Danny Gatton and stringing up a Fender

[jaycee]

I was watching a Danny Gatton vid that someone posted on the tele forum and he says that when stringing a guitar, especially a Fender, that he winds the string all the way down the post. Anyone know why and why he says 'especially a Fender'?

Great vids, btw, check 'em out!

[rhinocaster]

I was watching a Danny Gatton vid that someone posted on the tele forum and he says that when stringing a guitar, especially a Fender, that he winds the string all the way down the post. Anyone know why and why he says 'especially a Fender'?

Great vids, btw, check 'em out!

A Fender doesn't have a backwards angle to the headstock. Winding the strings all the way down the post creates a stronger break over the nut.

[jaycee]

Oh cool. And the benefit is better tuning stability?

[rhinocaster]

It's more about eliminating buzz and creating a setup that allows for more accurate intonation. With too shallow an angle of break (Both at the nut and the bridge) things start sounding a bit weird.

[jaycee]

Dynamite. Thanks for chiming in.

[Lightningrt]

I read this 25 years ago in Guitar Player, but this is the fiorst time I've heard it since.

[kimock]

It's more about eliminating buzz and creating a setup that allows for more accurate intonation. With too shallow an angle of break (Both at the nut and the bridge) things start sounding a bit weird.

I think not. It sounds and feels different in much the same way that increasing down angle at the bridge on a stop tailpiece guitar does.
It's a playability issue mostly, a different distribution of tension at the nut.

I'm not sure how you would account for down angle effecting compensation except in the most extreme example of super short scale length and super heavy string gauge.
The above quote "It's more about eliminating buzz and creating a setup that allows for more accurate intonation." suggests that the individual saddle compensation is dependent on how many times the string goes around the tuning post, and I'm pretty sure that that's not the case.

I string all my instruments to take full advantage of available down angle at the nut, it just feels better.

[rhinocaster]

I think not. It sounds and feels different in much the same way that increasing down angle at the bridge on a stop tailpiece guitar does.
It's a playability issue mostly, a different distribution of tension at the nut.

I'm not sure how you would account for down angle effecting compensation except in the most extreme example of super short scale length and super heavy string gauge.
The above quote "It's more about eliminating buzz and creating a setup that allows for more accurate intonation." suggests that the individual saddle compensation is dependent on how many times the string goes around the tuning post, and I'm pretty sure that that's not the case.

I string all my instruments to take full advantage of available down angle at the nut, it just feels better.

I'm a little bit lost by your post, but string break angle definitely has an effect on how the guitar sounds. More turns on the post helps to create more positive contact with the nut and makes sure that you're string is maintaining the strongest possible contact. Try some Fender style guitars that don't have string trees or staggered posts. You'll often find that these guitars experience odd, sitar like overtones.

The same holds true for the bridge. Strange tones that result from a more "free floating" string create intonation problems as well.

Icky.

[squeally dan]

I was watching a Danny Gatton vid that someone posted on the tele forum and he says that when stringing a guitar, especially a Fender, that he winds the string all the way down the post. Anyone know why and why he says 'especially a Fender'?

Great vids, btw, check 'em out!

I must be a dope. What exactly do you mean by "winding it all the way down the post? Is he just saying to wrap the string around the post more times?

[Loni Specter]

I must be a dope. What exactly do you mean by "winding it all the way down the post? Is he just saying to wrap the string around the post more times?

When I string up, After inserting the string into the hole or slot, I always start by holding the string down against the peghead so the first wind is at the bottum of the shaft. I keep my finger pressing down on the string to keep subsequent winds at the lowest position on the shaft. I try not to let the new winds flip up and over the previous winds. All winds should be nice and in order forming a neat spiral on the shaft with the newest/last wind being the lowest. I also cut the strings before I start,specially the fat strings, cutting them two inches or so longer than the tuning peg position they will be strung on. Never let the strings overlap/lay on top of previous winds.
Hope I'm being clear enough.

[blueserv]

Thanks for this info! I never knew this. I hope it will correct some "issues" on my Tele.

[kimock]

I'm a little bit lost by your post, but string break angle definitely has an effect on how the guitar sounds. More turns on the post helps to create more positive contact with the nut and makes sure that you're string is maintaining the strongest possible contact. Try some Fender style guitars that don't have string trees or staggered posts. You'll often find that these guitars experience odd, sitar like overtones.

The same holds true for the bridge. Strange tones that result from a more "free floating" string create intonation problems as well.

Icky.

Hey Rhino, we must be misunderstanding each other, I think we're saying the same thing now.
It does sound different when you wind the string all the way down the post, right?
In your post #4, the one I quoted in my first post, I got the impression that you were saying that the primary benefit was improved intonation. I believe the primary benefit is playability/sound. YMMV, no contest.

We may have different definitions for 'intonation', but as long as we're on the same page regarding the additional down angle having a positive effect on the sound and playability of the instrument, we're agreeing with each other and with Danny Gattons' observations and preference.

Cool, right?

[lalaland]

http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z256/killlalaland/?action=view&current=DSC_7918.jpg

[Dana Olsen]

Hey John and Steve et al -

I agree that increased downward pressure on the nut from more windings does good things for string contact with the nut, which makes mo' bettah' tone.

You do lose a little tuning stability, IME, thouh it's more pronounced if you bend strings a long ways (I do sometimes ... GRIN) The more ya bend, the more you can pull some of the slack off the tuning posts causing your tuning to go flat.

I got a trick from John Phillips that's cool: For the low "E" and "A", I wind the first winding down on the post, and the second winding UP the post - it evens the string tension between the low and high strings some, but you do sacrifice a little downward pressure on the nut.

Lately, I have to admit, especially on Strats, I'm inclined to put more winding on, especially on the high strings, and not use the string trees. Done like this, the trem arm works way better and comes back to pitch better too.

I think there is no single right way to string a guitar. Each way has both benefits and causes probs, it's simply a matter of which tradeoffs one prefers.

My choices change all the time on this.

Thanks, Dana O.