Is a band leader responsible for taking care of the band when a gig goes bad? (LONG)

[jtw]

I just left a project I had been playing with for a couple of years. While the band leader is a sweetheart of a person, I feel like she routinely, though inadvertantly, threw the band under the bus.

Case in point, we played a gig Haloween night, and showed up at the time we were asked to be there. This was a warehouse party, so typical club times and operation were out the window. Ok, cool. Sound guy wasn't anywhere near ready for us. Again, no surprise given the situation, but ok. Once he is ready, we load our stuff up on the stage and get set up. We were the first band to play that night, and the stage was big enough to accommodate the other band setting up their gear right next to us on stage. Cool.

So we get set up and line check. We're about an hour and a half behind schedule at this point, but again, this is how some of these things go sometimes, and was not a surprise.

The real problem developed when we got up to start our first set and our band leader comes running up to the stage and says "The other band is here and wants to set up their stuff, so we will have to wait until they are done." To me, this was out of line, both for the other band for not being there on time to set up their stuff as was the agreed upon plan, and out of line for our band leader to let us get pushed around like that. Turns out the other band was (I KID YOU NOT) a 17-piece reggae band who proceeded to set up their gear literally ON TOP of our stuff and took over an hour to do it. Now even further behind schedule. They pushed our stuff out of the way, and crunched up some of our gear in the process. Our band leader stood their and watched it all happen, didn't do a thing. I stepped in and took care of my stuff, but that was it.

At the end of the night she said she was sorry for how it worked out, but it wasn't her fault. I understand that, of course, the situation was not her fault, but I do feel like she should have looked out for us better than she did.

This is just one example. We have been to gigs and promised money only to arrive and find out she had volunteered our time for free on our behalf when other bands were paid.

Ugh, maybe I'm just venting and I'm glad I'm out of the project now, but it just seems like the other groups I play in, the band leaders go to great extent to look after their players. It doesn't take much for me, but I think if you're a band leader there are certain things that fall on your shoulders.

Band leaders, can you help me understand this? I really would like to understand.

[TommyMambo]

"When Good Gigs Go Bad!" - sounds like a reality show.

Having led all the bands I've been in over the past 30 years, it does always fall upon your shoulders, and you learn to either deal with it or move on.

These experiences range from clubs not paying, double bookings, incompetent soundmen, fellow musicians with alcohol/substance problems, etc.

Ultimately, you become flexible enough to deal with things and improvise where need be, and make the changes you need to keep on moving, even if it means firing people that have become friends.

And that's probably why for the past 9 years, I've had a trio for live shows. It's pretty maneuverable!

[devinb]

I'm guessing she has good intentions, but is a weak person in terms of looking out for her (and your) interests. Lot's of people don't know how to become assertive when there is a need for it. If she can't learn how to be an a-hole when it's needed, then someone else needs to step up or be hired for that role.

I've done my share of promoting shows as well as playing them, any sort of one-off thing is always going to be a headache. My guess is that she was getting pressed by the people hosting the party to let the other band set up before you played, I'm guessing they didn't want a lot of dead time between bands, which is totally understandable.

As far as the pay issue, that's another story, but I certainly have had friends that seem to have trouble telling the truth about little things...not compulsive liars, just people that never want to be responsible for disappointing you before they have to.

[NyteOwl]

I believe any band leader that does not take care of their band won't have a band very long.

You caught a bad one this time around, who perhaps is a very nice person, but just not very good when it comes to looking out for her people. Has she been the de facto band leader from Day One, or did she just step up to fill a void when no one else would?

[GCDEF]

Depends what you mean "Band leader". If I were on stage and ready to play at a party like this, band leader or not, I would have politely told the other band they needed to wait, especially if there wasn't room on stage. Sounds like nobody in your band wanted to stand up for yourselves and you're just looking to blame her.

[Caretaker]

If by band "leader" you mean booker, etc, making the same as every other member of the band, it`s a band loss. If the band is not happy then someone else needs to be doing that job IMO. If it is a hired gun type thing(backing band, etc) and you work for this person, record company, etc, then you should be paid for every gig scheduled regardless if it is played or not. If you are on salary with a company and a machine breaks down and there is no work for 3 days, you still get your normal check. If there was ever an issue in my band, the band was paid before I was. JMO

[jtw]

Has she been the de facto band leader from Day One, or did she just step up to fill a void when no one else would?

This is her band, her project, has been from day one. The band has it's own name for booking purposes, but it's her songs, she books the gigs, she asked us to play with her.

[jtw]

Sounds like nobody in your band wanted to stand up for yourselves and you're just looking to blame her.

She's the leader. It's her ball-game, her team, and her place to "stand up" to other entities when it's called for. I did "stand up" to the issue, but when there's nothing you can do, there's nothing you can do.

[semi-hollowbody]

does she do anything else besides lead the band??
I mean, does she at least play an instrument or sing??

[jtw]

Yes, good question.

She is the songwriter/singer/acoustic player.

[duckbunny]

I We have been to gigs and promised money only to arrive and find out she had volunteered our time for free on our behalf when other bands were paid.

OK, now I have a big problem. I understand that it is her music and her band, etc. - but she feels she has a mandated right to volunteer your services without your knowledge or permission? If this has happened more than once, I'd seriously consider finding another gig.

Caretaker's post said it all really well. I'd play for him!



-db

[shihanderek]

If it was my band, it wouldn't have happened like that. I would have reminded the guy about the already screwed schedule, and that we have been happy to comply, but that I was drawing the line at that point and just look at him and wait for him to decide what he wanted to do next.

I am happy to compromise, but would not allow my guys to get screwed, bottom line.

[jtw]

You all are confirming the way I feel about this, which is helpful. Thanks so much.

This band has been playing on and off (but mostly off!) for about a year at this point. When it first kicked up, we had some good gigs for a while, made a little $. As time went on, the gigs dried up, and I started looking around for additional projects. I've since landed a really really great gig with some artists that are quite busy, and pay me regardless of the situation. They take very good care of their players, and we respect and appreciate them as a result.

The band leader in question here really is a very kind person, a good person. But as has already been mentioned she just doesn't have the stuff to confront less than ideal situations, and as a result the band ends up suffering for it.

[Jon C]

yes it was her fault... if she can't lead she has no business being the leader ... this warrants a calm, businesslike conversation about professionalism & expectations and taking care of business (meaning, too, taking care of the band).

I walked away from a situation like that a few yrs. ago, only the leader was talented but she wasn't that nice a person... no leadership skills at all though.

[Gas-man]

Call me a sexist, but the problem here is SHE.

lol.

[franksguitar]

A real leader stands up to BS and deals with management when things are FUBAR

[Bobby D]

Call me a sexist, but the problem here is SHE.

lol.


hahahahaha....sorry, but that made me laugh.

I played with a VERY well known blues artist that is managed by one of the most ornery, vindictive, and petty women I have ever met in my life.....and it ruined my relationship with that artist. And I am sure that she will still "diss" me to other people in the "biz" over that issue....which was a $50 charge for my ATA guitar case being too heavy for Lufthansa, and she wanted ME TO PAY the $50.......

[Jet Age Eric]

If you were opening, she probably had no leverage and, presumably, she thought it was gonna do the band some good so she didn't want to make waves; I'd let her slide on that. Really, as the opener, the later you go on the better off you are (presumably). All bands are not equal on a bill (for better or worse).

If she's volunteering you for free gigs without your consent, however, that's another matter and that, to me, is uncool. -E

[violetlove]

Call me a sexist, but the problem here is SHE.

lol.

Actually, it's not really sexist.
Sadly, females don't get taken as seriously in this world.

[jads57]

Show me the $ ! That`s all that really counts ,unfortunately!

[cadduc]

it is more difficult for females
but
one of the baddest i ever worked for was a female manager, she understood this was a business, contracts and enforcement of same were important, and as such she was always professional and always able to command respect

it is not that it is a woman, but rather she does not know how to deal with unpleasant situations,

and folks dealing with stuff when it turns out right is not the issue, dealing with snafus is where real leadership shows, like getting paid for that outside gig when you dont play because thunder and lightning are happening,

you can get paid, it is only right, acts of god not withstanding

[stratzrus]

...when there's nothing you can do, there's nothing you can do.Seems like you've answered your own question.

It's her band so it's really out of your hands no matter what seems reasonable. If I don't like the way things are going I say so. If they don't change I leave if I can't live with it.

[daddyo]

You all are confirming the way I feel about this, which is helpful. Thanks so much.

This band has been playing on and off (but mostly off!) for about a year at this point. When it first kicked up, we had some good gigs for a while, made a little $. As time went on, the gigs dried up, and I started looking around for additional projects. I've since landed a really really great gig with some artists that are quite busy, and pay me regardless of the situation. They take very good care of their players, and we respect and appreciate them as a result.

The band leader in question here really is a very kind person, a good person. But as has already been mentioned she just doesn't have the stuff to confront less than ideal situations, and as a result the band ends up suffering for it.
You landed on your feet. That's all that matters.

[gag halfrunt]

I agree that when you are little more than a hired gun, and the leader allows herself to get pushed around, you have to go along for the ride. Otherwise, you are not being professional (as the 'employee'). However, SHE OWES YOU MONEY for every gig she 'volunteered' you for without your knowledge. If she ever asks you to sit in on another gig, make sure she knows that, and that you would love to sit in as soon as she pays up. You were her employee, you worked, and got no pay. She should eat that, not the band/hired guns.

[violetlove]

You all are confirming the way I feel about this, which is helpful. Thanks so much.

This band has been playing on and off (but mostly off!) for about a year at this point. When it first kicked up, we had some good gigs for a while, made a little $. As time went on, the gigs dried up, and I started looking around for additional projects. I've since landed a really really great gig with some artists that are quite busy, and pay me regardless of the situation. They take very good care of their players, and we respect and appreciate them as a result.

The band leader in question here really is a very kind person, a good person. But as has already been mentioned she just doesn't have the stuff to confront less than ideal situations, and as a result the band ends up suffering for it.

Of course, you could always talk to her about this, and offer to play tough guys when needed.
If she is a female acoustic singer/songwriter, she may just be a gentle soul who avoids confrontation or does not understand it. Clearly she is not cut out for it, so maybe she just needs to delegate that role to someone who will do it better. Nothing wrong with that.

[drweller]

Opener is generally at the mercy of the headliner/promoter/venue. Headliner is the major draw, gets the lion's share of the budget, and is the priority. If participants (ie. band folks) weren't playing nice together (ego/attitude) and working together to expedite/resolve the setup matter then gear issues could happen - on purpose or not. At least the opener band wasn't completely bumped to accommodate the situation. As long as there is a contract to guarantee full payment, I wouldn't worry. I've been with label artists and had to go thru the same thing - including full bumps, extremely reduced sets, getting cut short, etc. to accomodate a headliner, sound company, weather, or other schedule issue.

1. Find out in advance who/what the other band is - setup/pieces/etc.
2. Inquire about sharing gear if possible (drum kit, bass rig, etc).
3. If the headliner is running late and you/promoter/event can't wait, setup up front as tight/small as possible (knowing another band would be setting up behind you as the main act). Keep the back area open (cases off stage, etc.) so they can setup as much as possible while you're playing and then finish up during the break.

Crap happens...have to learn to roll with it. It's going to be hard for the "artist" to get in someone's grill and irritate the person paying when it's their name/project/career (ie. hired gun/band member vs. singer/songwriter/core creative person). Someone else in the band, not the "artist", needs to be the 'Tour Manager'/Heavy in those situations so the artist can save face, keep the pleasant relationship, and not damage future gig opportunities (good cop/bad cop scenario). The artist can be neutral, the 'star'/'nice guy' and someone else can do the occasional polite but firm 'heavy' work. Of course, the band member/heavy should get a little something extra for their trouble - 'cause sometimes that role just isn't fun.

[jtw]

Again, thanks so much to all of you. I'm really trying to use this as a learning experience as best I can and move on. I really appreciate the input.