Review of David L Burge Perfect Pitch Ear Training Course

[lhallam]

Burge offers two courses, relative pitch and perfect pitch. You can purchase them separately or together, I paid $200 for both.

This post reviews the perfect pitch course, my review of the relative pitch course is here:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46236

The perfect pitch course is geared for anyone who wants to learn to identify by hearing and sing any named pitch without referring to an instrument. You will also be able to identify chords, notes within chords and keys of pieces more readily without referring to anything but your head.

Burge is very logical, excellent at explaining things and the course is laid-out to maximize your learning. The Perfect Pitch Supercourse has 8 CD's plus there are 2 bonus cd's for a total of 10.

You do not have to be able to read standard musical notation to take the course.

There is a 40 day money back guarantee. I think he tells you that you should notice a difference within a shorter time frame if you follow his instructions.

The course is largely a lot of lectures at the end of which he gives you exercises. You are not to spend more than 15 minutes a day on the exercises.

He provides two methodologies for learning perfect pitch:

1) with a partner - he says you will gain results faster this way

2) by yourself - may take longer but it will work. Note: his earlier version of this course did not have much in the way of option #2 - beware if you are buying it used, you may need a partner.

He explains what perfect pitch is, why it is useful, dispels many myths concerning the skill, and the various levels of perfect pitch.

For example, level one is the ability to identify pitches on your native instrument, level 2 is the ability to identify pitchs on any instrument, level 3 is the ability to sing any pitch off your head. He explains what to listen for and exercises for training your ear.

Every time I asked a musician including teachers how they hear an interval or if they have perfect pitch how they hear the tones,
the answer was always the same, "I don't know, I just hear it". That is why some instructors do not know how to teach ear training.

Most say that you have to be born with perfect pitch and dismiss you if you don't possess it.

David Burge had an interesting experience. He began to teach himself Perfect Pitch when he suddenly realized that he already had it, he just didn't know what to listen for.

Unlike my professors, Burge went through the transition conciously and was able to teach a friend what to listen for and she figured it out as well. You can read his account here:

http://www.perfectpitch.com/chapter1.htm

This is why he is able to teach it to others. He insists anyone can learn it. He has plenty of testimony and cites research done at universities at his website. His explanations at the site are better than what I am posting here.

I was able to comprehend and hear what color hearing is right off the bat. I did not have a partner and followed his instructions
rigorously. The color hearing seemed to come and go. Suddenly one night, I was able to hear all the pitches on the guitar as clear
as recognizing the difference between peoples voices. I got 100% of them right for 15 minutes of drilling and it was so clear to me that I couldn't believe I couldn't hear it before.

Alas, the next night I couldn't hear them as well. Burge says that this is to be expected however, I screwed up and stopped doing the exercises soon after. I still can play the open notes of my guitar and tune them close to pitch without a reference most of the time. I can hear that a note is flat or sharp.

I am close to level 1 of pitch color awareness and have a way to go before attaining the highest level. I am planning to get back into the exercises.

Based on my experience I would recommend this course. I can say without a shadow of a doubt my color hearing has grown, how far it will grow remains to be seen.

Each person is different and the time it takes for results will vary.

My complaint is that I think he should tell you up front about the partner thing. You don't need one, but it would be nice to know.

You need to do the exercises on your main instrument which could be a problem for some folks.

Burge says perfect pitch is the difference between watching black & white TV and color TV. When I told musician friends that
I was taking this course, they were uninterested and asked me "why?".

I played in a group with a blind keyboardist who could hear any note or chord or song once and play it instantly. That's where I want to be. Striving for musical excellence should never stop.

Any questions or comments feel free to e-mail me or post.

BTW - I am not affiliated with Burge in any way, these posts are my unbiased opinion and experience.

[Boogs]

thanks for posting that - that looks like a fabulous home course! i was convinced, upon seeing his ad, that he was a quack.


... something about his hair, i think... ;)

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Boogs
thanks for posting that - that looks like a fabulous home course! i was convinced, upon seeing his ad, that he was a quack.


... something about his hair, i think... ;)

You may conclude other things after hearing him speak and all the "David L Burge" announcements but one thing for sure, the guy is sharp as tack and has cracked a code that people have said is impossible for centuries. Including a scientific report I read while working on my MIS that stated unequivocally one cannot learn perfect pitch. :rolleyes:

[Boogs]

Originally posted by lhallam
Including a scientific report I read while working on my MIS that stated unequivocally one cannot learn perfect pitch. :rolleyes:

this is what i always believed! so it's not surprising that this guy shows up on the last page of Paste magazine with...that....hair..........saying he can teach us ALL perfect pitch, and i think he's a complete lunatic/con artist.

... but at least i never "stated unequivocally" that he was a wack job, that would have been out of line. ;)

[Shakkal]

Interesting ... does he suggest that there is any kind of age limit over which your ear cannot be trained anymore or it becomes more difficult? For example, lhallam, you seem to have obtained rather quick results, how old are you?

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Shakkal
Interesting ... does he suggest that there is any kind of age limit over which your ear cannot be trained anymore or it becomes more difficult? For example, lhallam, you seem to have obtained rather quick results, how old are you?

Burge says no age limit. There is no difficulty involved, you simply relax and listen. It has to come to you, you cannot make it happen.

Some folks could be older and are on the verge of color hearing but simply don't realize it. For example, Burge talks about a piano tuner who always noticed that F# sounded "twangy" and would try to tune it out. As it turns out, he already had color hearing and didn't realize that an F# has a "twangy" color to it.

I'm 49. I didn't tell you how long it took me and won't as I don't want to discourage anyone. I'm am not what I'd call a natural, everything I have attained has been through hard work and long hours. Burge says his friend caught on in short order, I did not.

We're all different.

[Shakkal]

Thanks, I must have misread that ... but your post definitely got me interested in trying that method out.

[EricT]

Thanks for the review!
Burge recommends taking the perfect pitch course together with the relative pitch course, what is your opinion?
I'm thinking that relative pitch is the most important for a musician, and that perfect pitch is more of a "gimmicky" thing.

[lhallam]

Originally posted by EricT
Thanks for the review!
Burge recommends taking the perfect pitch course together with the relative pitch course, what is your opinion?
I'm thinking that relative pitch is the most important for a musician, and that perfect pitch is more of a "gimmicky" thing.

Yes he does recommend the two together. The reason I slacked off on the PP was to finish the relative pitch course, I just didn't have the time & discipline to do both and I had stopped the relative pitch to do the PP. So now I'm stuck on the relative course and need to get back into the PP. Can't win eh? :)

I should follow his advice and do both! In fact, that's what I'm going to do, I'll get back to you on my progress.

I get that a lot concerning the unimportance of PP. I agree with Burge that to be totally rounded you need both. They work together. If you are going to do one or the other, I'd to the relative pitch.

When I was in HS we used to take 10 fingers and hit these clusters all over the keyboard and this PP guy named every note, he never failed. I want to be able to do that.

[EricT]

Just one more question, where did you get that price? On Burge's homepage it's $388 for both.

[lhallam]

Originally posted by EricT
Just one more question, where did you get that price? On Burge's homepage it's $388 for both.

Looks like the price has gone up plus I got a special deal for having the original tape version. Sorry for misleading you.

You've got mail.

[dkaplowitz]

Nice review.

I just started getting back into the relative pitch cassettes that I bought in the early '90s (along with the perfect pitch ones, though I'm not really focusing on PP). I used the relative pitch tapes to graduate to level 2 (out of 5 levels) and I got sidetracked from completing it. I just listened to the "level 1 - lesson 8" tape again and I am reminded how thorough this course is. It includes singing intervals and knowing the names of all the interval notes, practicing the intervals by playing them on your instrument while singing and reciting the notes, writing the notes down on paper, hearing chords, etc. etc. This is really a stellar way to learn music at a deeper level. Couldn't recommend it enough.

Though I've passed the drills on this tape before, I've gotten a little rusty. Out of about 30-40 intervals played rapidly either melodically or harmonically, I got about 3-4 wrong. I had a harder time with naming the notes because of my rustiness, but all in all I'm amazed at how well this stuff has stuck in my ears over 15 years of inactivity with it.

I can't wait to progress into the other levels now.

P.S. A good free web site for practicing some of this stuff is:
http://www.good-ear.com/

[amstaf]

Thanks for the info. I posted a question about this on Bam. I'm really interested in that. I just hate reading testemonials since they can be very vague. I'm going to check this out. thanks

[hear and play]

Originally posted by lhallam


[portion cut]

Burge says perfect pitch is the difference between watching black & white TV and color TV. When I told musician friends that
I was taking this course, they were uninterested and asked me "why?".

I played in a group with a blind keyboardist who could hear any note or chord or song once and play it instantly. That's where I want to be. Striving for musical excellence should never stop.

[remainder cut]



Do you think it's brought you closer to to being able to play anything you hear in your head in real time?

[meterman]

Originally posted by dkaplowitz
P.S. A good free web site for practicing some of this stuff is:
http://www.good-ear.com/

Great link man, thanks for posting that!

[dkaplowitz]

Originally posted by meterman
Great link man, thanks for posting that!
No probz! Here's another: http://www.earplane.com/

[lhallam]

Originally posted by hear and play
Do you think it's brought you closer to to being able to play anything you hear in your head in real time?

Closer yes, arrived no.

I am much better at hearing what other band members are doing and quickly interplay with them.

The relative pitch course helps in this more than the perfect pitch course.

[carltonh]

I got the course about 1994 or so. I started learning perfect pitch, and it was starting to work (I was doing it by myself.) However, learning it is like learning a new instrument. It can be done and takes time. I quit and have basically lost it all. Which is fine either way for me right now. I just don't find the time to do it. I never got further than using it to be able to properly tune my guitar by ear. I couldn't tell a note in a song, but if someone played a note live near me and sustained it, I could figure it out by the notes I had memorized in combination with relative pitch.

It is neither quackery nor an epiphany experience, just more work that will be worthwhile to some but not others. The partner system may make it quicker, I didn't do that.

[Ah Xoc Kin]

lhallam,
Thanks so much for posting your review. I just found the Perfect Pitch Course for $70 and the Relative Pitch Course for $190 on eBay.
They still have some left.
I'm looking forward to improving my hearing capabilities.
Once again, Thank You very much!

[daddyo]

Can you take the PP course first or do you need to start with the RP course?

[dkaplowitz]

Originally posted by daddyo
Can you take the PP course first or do you need to start with the RP course?
They are discrete units and can be studied together or separately. One does not require the other.

[rpavich]

I've done the same as some of you here...I tried this course and went to the RP exclusively. got through to 6th intervals and then had "life" intervene...so I didn't finish.

To this day, and that's been about 15 years, I can still recognize the pitch relations at once after hearing them...


I've just "re-bought" the course and am going to start again and see where it takes me...

But I do say that it's not fake or a scam...for several months after going through the RP course I'd involuntarily shout out "major 6!" or "minor 3rd" when hearing a door bell or a car horn or any couple of pitches one-after-another...lol...

I can say that this skill has paid off...when learning tunes, things go much easier when you have no question of the intervals involved...you can "just go" to the notes instead of "picking around" blindly at what you think they are....

bob

[LithiumLulu]

My uncle taught me RP. I don't know how he learned it, but I found it easy to learn and it has helped me a lot. I do the same thing rpavich mentioned with car horns and train whistles. I think having PP would be awesome.

[thelionsden]

I have a few friends with perfect pitch..the effortlessness with which they are able to learn music and play music that is in their heads is astounding and frankly, envy producing. :D My one good friend was the leader/ keyboard player of one of the best club bands in town at the age of 12. He would go and play gigs with other bands without any rehearsals. If he has ever heard the tune, he can pretty much play it. He picked up a guitar, and in no time at all, he could jam like crazy. He has been the star of the Broadway show Movin Out based on the Billy Joel tunes for the last couple years..I think it just closed this week..but now its off to Vegas for another nice gig. I am not sure how this perfect pitch connects with ease of playing, but I wish I had it!

[Strung Up]

Perfect pitch is nowhere near as important for improvising with a group as relative pitch. Lot's of good courses for that in books (check out Armen Donelian's stuff)and with teachers, schools etc.

[lhallam]

I have a few friends with perfect pitch..the effortlessness with which they are able to learn music and play music that is in their heads is astounding and frankly, envy producing. :D My one good friend was the leader/ keyboard player of one of the best club bands in town at the age of 12. He would go and play gigs with other bands without any rehearsals. If he has ever heard the tune, he can pretty much play it. He picked up a guitar, and in no time at all, he could jam like crazy. He has been the star of the Broadway show Movin Out based on the Billy Joel tunes for the last couple years..I think it just closed this week..but now its off to Vegas for another nice gig. I am not sure how this perfect pitch connects with ease of playing, but I wish I had it!

No doubt he has both perfect pitch and very good relative pitch. Burge's anology is that perfect pitch while listening to music is like flipping a book of different colored pages. They fly by too quick to see. PP combined with good relative pitch work together to see the full picture.

I lived with a blind keyboardist who blew my mind on a daily basis.

It's better to have good relative over PP but it's best to have both.

[thelionsden]

Yes he probably had both, but I think perfect pitch is required to round out the ease of playing and learning phenomenon because the only two people I have personally known who have amazed me with such an ability definitley posessed perfect pitch as I tested them on it playing notes and chords to them blind and having them name them to me without fail.:jo

Dennis

[Mike Gatien]

I have the PP course & he has a lot of good ideas but, his lectures are childish and very redundant. He needs to stop listening to himself and come up with something much more concise and to the point. Other courses such as Jamie Ambersold (relative pitch) are much more to the point & a lot less $.

[rpavich]

Well...I have to agree with Mike G somewhat...DLB's CD's are redundant and repetitive...

I'm guessing that that's part of the process...repetition...whatever, it works...
bob

[Strung Up]

Perfect pitch is nowhere near as important for improvising with a group as relative pitch. Lot's of good courses for that in books (check out Armen Donelian's stuff)and with teachers, schools etc.

Donelian's books/articles:

Training the Ear (Advance Music (sunnyside@sunnysiderecords.com), 1992; Japanese edition by ATN, Inc., 2001). A basic jazz ear training instructional book with 2 CDs of recorded musical examples found in the book. Covers intervals, triads, seventh chords, inversions, dominant cadences, blues progressions, tritone substitution, major scales in 12 keys. Exercises for singing, tapping, transcibing, sight-reading, composing and dictation. "The most clearly organized and comprehensive package of its type." - Lewis Porter, Rutgers Annual Review of Jazz Studies 7, Scarecrow Press, 1994-5
"Hearing Chords" (The Rutgers Annual Review of Jazz Studies 8, Scarecrow Press, 1997). A detailed article describing intermediate level jazz ear training techniques for working with triads, seventh chords, inversions, dominant cadences, chord extensions and modulations.
"Woodshed Pro Session: Hearing Jazz Chords" (Downbeat Magazine, Maher Publications, June, August, October, December 1997 and January 1998). A serialized version of "Hearing Chords." Edited and divided into five monthly articles with added musical examples, charts and photographs.

[ari]

Yes he probably had both, but I think perfect pitch is required to round out the ease of playing and learning phenomenon because the only two people I have personally known who have amazed me with such an ability definitley posessed perfect pitch as I tested them on it playing notes and chords to them blind and having them name them to me without fail.:jo

Dennis
Yes, PP is convenient at times, but a person with good RP can do most, if not all of that. The problem with PP is that without a solid RP you start thinking in pitch names, not in relations. This gets in the way big time when transposing stuff. Also PP by itself does not tell you whether two pitches are in tune with each other or not. When a pitch falls in the vicinity of an A, you think it's A. It's the work of RP that tells you that it's flat and not in tune with the C# or whatever the other pitch is.

I had PP all my life and never knew it (I thought everybody did) until I started studying music formally in college. And since then I'm trying to learn RP in spite of it. I'm not bad now but I do wish if I didn't recognize pitches so that I could really learn RP. It was sure easy in my ear training classes -- but the flip side of it was that I never learned anything from them.

RP is absolutely essential and necessary in pursuit of musicianship. If you don't have PP, then consider it a blessing. You can work on PP as an icing on the cake after you master RP.

ari

[dspblues]

Oddly enough, you can get the system for a cheaper price on their ebay store as opposed to their website.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZperfectpitch_comQQhtZ-1

[Luke]

I have the PP course & he has a lot of good ideas but, his lectures are childish and very redundant. He needs to stop listening to himself and come up with something much more concise and to the point.

I have both courses and never seem to get beyond the second CD, I am always like "shut the f*ck up already and teach me something", the guy babbles endlessly the same thing over and over again, like a need another wife!:jo

[AML]

I also have both courses, but found i've really only listened to the Relative Pitch course in short bursts. Luke, i have to agree with you about his incessant talking, he affects me the same way after awhile.

[dspblues]

After reading this review and seeing what some of the others had to say, I've purchased both the Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch systems.

SHHHH... I'm going to tell you all a secret. If you email them and tell them that you owned the system a few years ago, but lost the tapes, documentation, etc.... they will give you a very discounted rate. I'm not lying to them by the way, I bought it never used it, and lost it.

I got both systems for $228 including shipping.

[dspblues]

One question though... Were you able to take the course using the guitar as a reference or did you use a keyboard/piano?

[dkaplowitz]

One question though... Were you able to take the course using the guitar as a reference or did you use a keyboard/piano? It's more to do with singing the intervals, and he recommends you practice it all on your instrument. It applies to the guitar. If you played a non-chord instrument it might be hard, but guitar is no prob with this course. But the drills are on piano, so you'll be hearing a lot of it on piano too.

[countandduke]

I read these posts and it makes me want to go through the Relative pitch cd's. I too agree he can be a little on the chatty side but I think he is just over-enthusiastic and really wants to make sure you understand what's going on. I will say this, if you are interested in a VERY watered down but still very good book and double cd, Jamie Aebersold made a book entitled "Ear Training" in which he plays intervals and then some chords to which you then have to mark in the accompanying workbook if he played a major second or a minor second interval. So far, the cd's are great!!! You can find that book and MANY more at www.jazzbooks.com

Chris

[sethmeister]

I always figured the Burge stuff was snake oil and so I never tried it.

So is there anyone here who has taken the perfect pitch course and now has perfect pitch, i.e is able to identify pitches with no reference?

I've always had a great ear and can pick most anything out by listening top it without much of any effort. But I certainly don't have perfect pitch.

[dspblues]

So is there anyone here who has taken the perfect pitch course and now has perfect pitch, i.e is able to identify pitches with no reference?

lhallam (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/member.php?u=3344) took the class, see the review above.

[sethmeister]

lhallam (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/member.php?u=3344) took the class, see the review above.


I am close to level 1 of pitch color awareness and have a way to go before attaining the highest level. I am planning to get back into the exercises.

Based on my experience I would recommend this course. I can say without a shadow of a doubt my color hearing has grown, how far it will grow remains to be seen.


So does he have perfect pitch now or not? Maybe I'm dense but this seems inconclusive at best.

Lhallam: not busting your chops, just trying to quantify what you and others have actually gotten out of the course...

[sethmeister]

So does he have perfect pitch now or not? Maybe I'm dense but this seems inconclusive at best.

Lhallam: not busting your chops, just trying to quantify what you and others have actually gotten out of the course...


:):):)

[countandduke]

I never listened to the cd's long enough to actually develop PP but the prinicpal seems sound, pun intended. Meaning that you CAN hear subtle differences in notes. I believe the first note he starts you off with is an F# and you can hear a little bit of "hair" on that note. Again, I never listened to the cd's and have not put the time in to develop the ability but I think it would work.

Chris

[SwirlCrazy]

I never listened to the cd's long enough to actually develop PP but the prinicpal seems sound, pun intended. Meaning that you CAN hear subtle differences in notes. I believe the first note he starts you off with is an F# and you can hear a little bit of "hair" on that note. Again, I never listened to the cd's and have not put the time in to develop the ability but I think it would work.

Chris

Yeah, I bought the cassettes over 20 years ago and did not manage to stick with them; which seems to be the trend. So, I don't think the fault is in Burge's basic idea, but the execution of his lessons appear to have real problems. If so many people find it difficult to stick with his method, I think it's time to start questioning the method. Maybe his way is best and it's just something that requires more discipline than most are willing to exercise. Or, there may be a better way.

[countandduke]

I think his way is a fine way it's just finding the time and discipline to stick with it. I do believe his Relative Pitch course is used in some music colleges......

I think the PP course is like a dozen cd's but the relative pitch course is more like 30!!! These are the times I wish my commute to work were a bit longer. I only live about 10 minutes or less from work and I would listen to the cd's but.....................again, discipline problem. Maybe I should shut up and start listening to the cd's again......

Chris

[Dana]

I'm sorry if this sounds strong, but I had a friend who bought this product. I checked it out, and in my opinion, it's garbage.

While studying at Berklee I asked one of my teachers about David Burge and his method. His opinion was, it's garbage.

For the past two years I've been using this method http://home.scarlet.be/~abenbass/art_singer.html

I've been doing it an hour a day in the morning, 5 days a week, for about a year and a half. It's hard, but right now I'm at the point where I can hear and recognize 4 notes being played simultaneously. My goal is to eventually hear 12.

This is the same method used by guys like Mike Stern, Jerry Bergonzi, Rick Berlin, Wayne Krantz, and Mike Brecker, and it's free. All the instructions are right there on that link above. It's not easy. It's tough and frustrating at times.

I think David Burge makes it sound like it's an easy thing to learn, so people buy into it. It's like the same reason why there are so many diet method's out there. People keep looking for that magic formula.

Just my $.02.

[countandduke]

I think its a shame that people would call David's method garbage. It seemed to me to very logically presented and well thought out. He likes to talk alot but I always thought that was his way of really making sure that you understand what the heck he is talking about. I really liked that he uses a 3 strikes and your out method. Meaning that when you are being tested on intervals, you are only allowed to miss 3 out of 25 or whatever the number happens to be. After you miss your 4th interval, he recommends that you stop, study again and review the material and take the test at a later date. A friend of mine went to Berklee and got a C in his ear training class. That obviously means he isn't hearing things as well as he should. BTW, this is from David's Relative Pitch seminar.

Hearing 4 notes at a time and being able to tell what they are and what chord they make up is something the David addresses in his relative pitch course and THAT is the course I should start listening to again, the PP course is a seperate issue and one I feel not as important to overall musical ability.

Chris

[SwirlCrazy]

My comment was not meant to say that Burge's product is wothless. Obviously the info on this page is a small sample and anecdotal. However, the consensus seems to be that people have a hard time sticking with the program. Maybe there is a better way to present it.

[lhallam]

So does he have perfect pitch now or not? Maybe I'm dense but this seems inconclusive at best.

Lhallam: not busting your chops, just trying to quantify what you and others have actually gotten out of the course...

No problem. There are definitely some legitimate questions and commentary on this thread.

One comment that is prevalent and seems true is people not sticking to it. I started it once back in the 80's and gave it up largely because at that time it required a partner.

I then started it again with the upgraded method and after about a yr wrote this review. I had full intention of keeping it up no matter what but I have not. Long list of reasons why I stopped but it wasn't because I wasn't getting results as small as they were.

Like mentioned before there are a number of levels of PP.

I'm not even at the 1st level.

99% of the time, I can tune my gtr pretty good without any reference. That is, tune each string by itself just by feel without comparing to other strings.

99% of the time, I can sing an E with fairly good accuracy.

During testing, there were times I got 15-18 in a row.

That's as far as I've gotten. I hope to get back into it.

I really wish I could've done this during my college yrs when I didn't have work, kids, etc.

One thing that should be clear, no two people are alike.

I know a guy who can hear if a recording is out of pitch. He's not a musician never was, he doesn't have PP, but I'm pretty damn sure that if he worked at it, he could develop it.

I think folks are at different levels and some can develop it whereas others cannot or can only go so far.

For example, no matter how hard I train, I'll never run a 4 minute mile.

Point is, YMMV and there may be other methods that are more suited to you.

I can see why some folks can't get past his presentation and personality but the guy definitely knows about ear-training. You can skip parts and just go to the training methodologies.

[countandduke]

Agreed, perhaps there could be less talking or something but I do believe if one were to stick with the program, it would work. :)

Chris

[dkaplowitz]

You gotta differentiate between the PP course and the RP course. The RP course is damned good, and damned thorough. The PP course seems good too, but I'm more cynical about it.

The lack of follow through has more to do with your typical musician and a course that with dilligent work could take 3-9 months of work. Hell, how many people do you know who've done a 9 month correspondence course entirely on their own? The fault isn't with the course, it's with the people giving up either when things get tough or because they fail to make it a regular part of their routine.

Think about how many great sight reading guitar players you know compared to ones you know who don't read. The reason for that disparity will explain why not a lot of ppl finish the RP course.

Just my $0.02

[lhallam]

You gotta differentiate between the PP course and the RP course. The RP course is damned good, and damned thorough. The PP course seems good too, but I'm more cynical about it.

The lack of follow through has more to do with your typical musician and a course that with dilligent work could take 3-9 months of work. Hell, how many people do you know who've done a 9 month correspondence course entirely on their own? The fault isn't with the course, it's with the people giving up either when things get tough or because they fail to make it a regular part of their routine.

Think about how many great sight reading guitar players you know compared to ones you know who don't read. The reason for that disparity will explain why not a lot of ppl finish the RP course.

Just my $0.02

Absolutely. Don't confuse the two courses. I wouldn't recommend the PP course but I would recommend the Relative Pitch course. My results from the RP course have been outstanding plus it's probably more useful from a practical standpoint.

I purposefully have not revealled how long I've worked on these courses because I don't want to dissuade people, plus others may take less time. I am NOT a natural musician. Everything I've accomplished has taken yrs and yrs of very hard work. I worked on the PP course everyday, 15-20 minutes for about 1.5 yrs.

I wouldn't call the PP garbage because to me garbage means it's something worthless. I've gotten quite a bit out of the course. Is it worth the time and money? For me, yes. For you: who knows? Am I where I want to be? No.

[dkaplowitz]

I purposefully have not revealled how long I've worked on these courses because I don't want to dissuade people, plus others may take less time. You and I have probably owned this course the same amount of time. In fact, I still have my cassette versions of it. I got to level 2 in RP and it took me about 2 months of almost daily work. The work was fun, and never took more than about 15 minutes. Some days I'd go longer, but that was only b/c I was in the mood to. If I ever get a disciplined practice regimen together, I'll start from level2.

The drills are killer if you love a good challenge, some won't even allow you to get one wrong, and Burge is spamming out those intervals at a brisk clip! Always felt great to pass a really challenging drill.

[lhallam]

You and I have probably owned this course the same amount of time. In fact, I still have my cassette versions of it. I got to level 2 in RP and it took me about 2 months of almost daily work. The work was fun, and never took more than about 15 minutes. Some days I'd go longer, but that was only b/c I was in the mood to. If I ever get a disciplined practice regimen together, I'll start from level2.

The drills are killer if you love a good challenge, some won't even allow you to get one wrong, and Burge is spamming out those intervals at a brisk clip! Always felt great to pass a really challenging drill.

Funny, I've got the tapes and the CDs.

Absolutely, it is a very rewarding experience when you pass a drill.

I worked on it very hard everyday and made it up to the last level where I got stuck on a 10 minute drill of every 9th chord. 60 examples that you have to get with no strikes!

I've tried and tried and there is no way I can pass it as is. I need to make my own mini-drill of a couple problem chords for study and then I could probably pass.

I had the same problem confusing minor 6ths and minor 7ths, so I made my own study drill of just those intervals and then I was able to pass his drill.

[DigitalTube]

I haven't checked the Perfet Pitch course, but have looked at the Relative Pitch one, and highly recomend that to anyone, I bought it for my nefew as a present, and it's incredible how much he's getting out of it, I can bang 4 or 5 notes on the piano, and he can sing them all(not using perfect pitch to tell the note names) just using relative pitch, and singing all the notes from lowest to highest, or the other way around very easely..he's had it for about a year now.
E.B.

[dverna]

is this the type of product that you can make progress by listening to the cds on a daily 45 minute commute?

[dkaplowitz]

is this the type of product that you can make progress by listening to the cds on a daily 45 minute commute?
You could, but there's some singing exercises and some quizzes where you have to sing a missing note, or the next note/interval in a sequence. Also, it involves practicing (more singing/reciting) with the instrument in your hand. You could do it on any instrument, but it's not a passive learning system that you can do just by listening.

[dverna]

You could, but there's some singing exercises and some quizzes where you have to sing a missing note, or the next note/interval in a sequence. Also, it involves practicing (more singing/reciting) with the instrument in your hand. You could do it on any instrument, but it's not a passive learning system that you can do just by listening.



Thanks Dkaplowitz -- I meant using the commute listening as more reinforcement of what would be necessary hard work with the instrument in hand. Sounds like it is worth a look.

[dkaplowitz]

Thanks Dkaplowitz -- I meant using the commute listening as more reinforcement of what would be necessary hard work with the instrument in hand. Sounds like it is worth a look.
Just so you know there's places in the course where you can't listen past certain tests that might take you a while to pass. So if you get stuck on a particularly nasty test, you won't really be able to listen to the course until you pass it. (That is assuming you follow the directions of the course, of course you can listen to it all at once if you want ;)).

But the good part about it is, if you carry around a pitch pipe or a tuning fork, you can do a lot of the exercises quietly humming to yourself.

Best of luck!

Dave

[Gene]

I did look into Burge's method for perfect pitch years ago. There is a difference between absolute pitch and memorizing pitches. Burge's method is one way to try to memorize pitches. Not a good one in my opinion.

For a great read, checkout Psychology of Music by Diana Deutsch.

Don't underestimate innate ability. Much of what I've seen is that someone who did not know or remember they had absolute pitch in their youth "regain" it by doing Burge's exercise later in their life.

In my opinion, pitches can be memorized by brute force but you can not acquire absolute pitch if you weren't born with it. It really doesn't matter because relative pitch is the far more important one in music practice.

Gene Ess

[SwirlCrazy]

Just bought this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=200123402163

I have a hard time getting more than a couple of hours a month into playing. Being able to improve my listening abilities while working would be great. We'll see how it works.

[dverna]

I do think relative pitch is the area I want to focus on... I just want to make sure (as much as I can) that his method/product is the best approach.

[Gene]

In that case, I have to say "no". Burge's method is not the best approach to memorizing pitches.

Did you know that countries that speak tonal languages have very very high percentage/ratio of perfect pitch? There is a big big hint here.

[dkaplowitz]

I do think relative pitch is the area I want to focus on... I just want to make sure (as much as I can) that his method/product is the best approach.
Not sure it's the best, actually. But to be honest I've seen/been exposed to a few different methods and it's the best (relative pitch) method I've seen. Very thorough, names of notes, note relationships, building chords, etc. etc. It's a good course. A little expensive (and it hasn't been updated since it was created ---the tapes I bought in like 1989 are the same course as is being sold today), but ultimately worth the money.

If you find a better one, more power to you. Please post back b/c I'd like to know about it.

Dave