Sheets of Sound technical help needed...

[BFC]

In section 3, the arpeggio section, there are a few arpeggios that require sweeping across three strings at the same fret and presumably with the same finger. I can't quite seem to get a handle on playing these cleanly even at slow tempos. I have a tendency to smear the notes together in this situation. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Brian

[jzucker]

Try rolling the "barred" finger in the direction of the picking. Don't just lay it down across the frets. You want it to simultaneously lay on the string you are about to pick and then come up as you move to the next string.

[Joe]

Sweep picking takes a LOT of work, its almost like learning to play lefty. There is nothing easy or natural about sweep picking, but once you can do it, you have access to playing most can never touch.

[BFC]

I don't have any trouble rolling the barred finger across two adjacent strings but three or more is proving to be very difficult for me. I'm especially having trouble going down (2nd to 3rd to 4th string for example). I'll keep working at it.

Brian

[3Sides]

When you figure out how to roll cleanly on the way back up, let me know.

[jzucker]

Use your wrist to vary the angle of the finger on the strings as you roll forward or backwards. As far as sweeping up goes, make sure the flat plane of the pick is perpendicular to the guitar's face. If you hold your pick so that there is a less than 90 degree angle between the bottom edge and the plane of the top of the guitar, it will make sweeping down easier but sweeping up difficult. That's the main issue I've seen with folks who have problems sweeping up. (That and gravity) :D

[TonyV]

Jack,

In Shawn Lanes Book/CD/Video he advocates using a different finger for the same fret on adjacent strings. I have also read this in Andrew Green's Jazz Technique book.

It certainly feels more "assertive", the notes sound more distinct and more conviction. It is not uncomfortable to do but as far as getting it up to speed, well that is another matter.

What are your thoughts?

Tony

Edited to add:
In Andrew Green's book he notes that the longer finger goes to the lower string. IMO an important point, it feels quite natural that way.
for example it you are going fron the F on the A string to the Bb on the D string you could use your middle finger on the F and index on the Bb. The rule stays the same going in either direction.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by TonyV
Jack,

In Shawn Lanes Book/CD/Video he advocates using a different finger for the same fret on adjacent strings. I have also read this in Andrew Green's Jazz Technique book.

It certainly feels more "assertive", the notes sound more distinct and more conviction. It is not uncomfortable to do but as far as getting it up to speed, well that is another matter.

What are your thoughts?.

If you can do that, it's great and I think you'll end up with a cleaner sound but it wasn't worth the effort for me. Matte Henderson also advocates doing that. On the other hand, Gambale uses the same finger.

I've heard good things about Andrew Green's book. How is that?

[TonyV]

His technique book is interesting but his improv book is what I have spent more time with. His improv book (Jazz Guitar Structures) is about using 4 note cells as an improv tool and how the same cells can be superimposed over different chord types. The presentation is very well laid out, for each cell he gives fingerings then chord voicing then examples.

He has samples on his web site but I cannot find it again.
Edit to add:
Found Andrew Green's site
http://www.chopsfactory.com/

[BFC]

I'm improving a bit on this. Just a matter of persistence I think.

Brian

[johnc]

I find sweeping up to be the most difficult of the two.

I tend to use my right hand to mute the string that I've just played. So when you're sweeping up its hard for me to mute the string I've just played and then move my hand in an upward direction to play the next note on the next physically higher string.

I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense, but right hand muting just seems more natural when sweeping in a downward motion rather that an upward motion.

Anybody else have this problem?

Maybe I should be doing more muting with my left hand?

I'm really trying to correct my sloppiness so that certain notes don't continue to ring out after I've moved on to the next note when playing an arpeggio.

[3Sides]

Same problem here, in general I always have a problem muting when move up the strings. No one has ever been able to help me with that. Moving down and palm muting, no problem, movinig up and finger muting, total problem.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by johnc
I find sweeping up to be the most difficult of the two.

I tend to use my right hand to mute the string that I've just played. So when you're sweeping up its hard for me to mute the string I've just played and then move my hand in an upward direction to play the next note on the next physically higher string.

I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense, but right hand muting just seems more natural when sweeping in a downward motion rather that an upward motion.

Anybody else have this problem?

Maybe I should be doing more muting with my left hand?

I'm really trying to correct my sloppiness so that certain notes don't continue to ring out after I've moved on to the next note when playing an arpeggio.

Muting definitely needs to be both hands. You can't just rely on the right hand. I see where you're coming from now. However, judicious use of rolling of the fingers can accomplish quite a bit in terms of muting and note separation.

[BFC]

I'm starting to get the 'rolling barre' thing together now. It's not 100% yet but definetly within reach compared to where I was when I originally posted this.

I love this book, btw. My skill level is way up.

Brian

[Lucidology]

The 'Rolling Barre"..? This is a new one to me..

A few good sweepers I know,
who use a lot of overdrive are using "scrungys" or wrap around hair pieces,
to help mute the strings or excess noises from running into each other ..

[shredtheater]

thats not cool

[Lucidology]

Here's a pic with the great Dave Martone using a scrunchy ...
& you know that ain't no capo ...

Dave Martone :: Photos | Martone Live | F1010031 copy (http://www.davemartone.com/zenphoto/martone-live/F1010031+copy.jpg)

[Woodyworld]

I'm not sure it's not cool.

For practicing I would suggest it's better not to use such aids in order to ensure your naturally muting well. However, I sometimes wrap a cloth round my guitar when recording to keep the take as clean as possible. Many a good take has been buggered up by a ping or string catch.

Joseph can you buy these things somewhere?

Here's a pic with the great Dave Martone using a scrunchy ...
& you know that ain't no capo ...

Dave Martone :: Photos | Martone Live | F1010031 copy (http://www.davemartone.com/zenphoto/martone-live/F1010031+copy.jpg)

[jzucker]

thats not cool

Huh? A scrunchy's not cool so you wouldn't use one?!? :eek:

[Lucidology]

I'm not sure it's not cool.

For practicing I would suggest it's better not to use such aids in order to ensure your naturally muting well. However, I sometimes wrap a cloth round my guitar when recording to keep the take as clean as possible. Many a good take has been buggered up by a ping or string catch.

Joseph can you buy these things somewhere?


scrunchie / skrnch/ • n. a circular band of fabric-covered elastic used for fastening the hair.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/lucidology/Scruncy.jpg

Yo Woody ... you should be able to pick one up in any thrift store ...
Anywhere where they sound hair ties..

A lot of slap~funk bass players also use these to stop strings sounds from running into each other ...

[Lucidology]

Hair Band for Guitar or Bass?

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2863/320/victor.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4147/2863/1600/victor.jpg)
Beside using your hair band to tie your hair, Victor Wooten uses it on his bass.
He learned it from his brother, Regi Wooten, who does amazing things on the electric guitar.

So why do Victor & Regi put a hair band on their Guitar & Bass?

Well I think most of you who read about him will know that it is to reduce vibration when doing the thumb up and down technique. Not to mention that it mutes strings that might vibrate tones unintentionally, causing dissonance.

I got mine for 50 cents and it serve me well when I slap classical thump. Another bass player that follow Victor is Norm Stockton ( Grooving for Heaven).

Give it a try, no harm. You can watch Bass day 98 featuring victor wooten and also Victor Wooten & Cater Beauford DVD video to see more of the hair band mention.

[Dickie Fredericks]

I use a scrunchy around the neck or a piece of cloth under the strings (both at the 1st fret) when I do Joe Satriani's Midnight...

[Woodyworld]

Top man- thanks Joseph!

I've been searching the web trying to find one in the guitar stores - no wonder I wasn't havin any luck. I'll raid the miss's vanity box tonight see what I can find! oooerr

Jack sorry for slight derail.


scrunchie / skrnch/ • n. a circular band of fabric-covered elastic used for fastening the hair.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l12/lucidology/Scruncy.jpg

Yo Woody ... you should be able to pick one up in any thrift store ...
Anywhere where they sound hair ties..

A lot of slap~funk bass players also use these to stop strings sounds from running into each other ...

[drfrankencopter]

Use your wrist to vary the angle of the finger on the strings as you roll forward or backwards. As far as sweeping up goes, make sure the flat plane of the pick is perpendicular to the guitar's face. If you hold your pick so that there is a less than 90 degree angle between the bottom edge and the plane of the top of the guitar, it will make sweeping down easier but sweeping up difficult. That's the main issue I've seen with folks who have problems sweeping up. (That and gravity) :D

Ummm I tilt the pick when I sweep up (and when I strum up)....is this not correct? It's a bit of a thumb move to make it happen, but it seems to work for me...of couese perhaps I'm just doing it wrong.

Cheers

Kris

[jzucker]

Ummm I tilt the pick when I sweep up (and when I strum up)....is this not correct? It's a bit of a thumb move to make it happen, but it seems to work for me...of couese perhaps I'm just doing it wrong.

Cheers

Kris

I would advise against doing that. I go over that in one of my video lessons. Keep the pick at the same angle/tilt.

[drfrankencopter]

I would advise against doing that. I go over that in one of my video lessons. Keep the pick at the same angle/tilt.


Oh...that certainly makes things a little different. I tried it last night, and I think I can get faster with mini sweeps (3 strings) with the constant angle, but nailing the first direction change (from down to up stroke) is a bit of a challenge. It all falls apart for me though when I try to sweep 6 strings with this technique. More practice needed I suppose.

Can you tell me more specifically which video outlines the sweeping technique...

Cheers

Kris

[jzucker]

I can't access youtube from work so I'm not sure exactly which video but it's one of the waterfall / sweeping videos I believe.

Regarding the pick angle, keep the surface plane of the pick perpendicular to the strings. This will give you a constant angle over the strings and eventually make your downstrokes and upstrokes sound the same. It make take months of practice but eventually you will be thankful you spent the time doing this. It will also help your alternate picking by making your wrist movement symetrical.