Recession Or?

[SvenHock]

Last night the wife and I went out to dinner and we were a little early, not many people so we were seated and did are thing. As we sat there I noticed that the place was getting packed and there was a wait time to be seated.

We were seated at a window booth right next to a main drag, Rt 13, and I also noticed how much traffic was on the highway and thought "boy for a recession there are people everywhere".

Next stop the mall to pick up a couple of CD's and, you guessed it, the place was packed. Now I realize that people may just be getting out but after last night it would be hard to convince me that there was a recession except it has affected my line of work as well. What gives? Media making it worse than it really is or?

[scott757]

I don't think that the media is making it worse than it is. I think that most people don't understand that it might be hard times ahead. Also, most people still have credit available to them. So I think that until the credit lines get cut and/or people loose their jobs life will continue as is.

[Dotneck]

I was out yesterday too...bought some supplies at Sam's Club and it was packed. But yes its still a recession. Talk to almost any businessman...especially small business owners. Business is down. Sometimes drasticly down. I'm just hoping the holiday season puts some money in the bank.

So far my November is running almost 50% of November '07. Comparing September to November...this year's sales are almost 40% off from last year. I need to decide whether to renew my lease in January or just call it quits. I think you will see a lot of companies..especially retailers call it quits in January if we don't have a strong holiday season.

Yes. The recession is real in my world.

[rob2001]

I was thinking about this last night. I have some friends who are pretty much unaffected at the moment so they are spending as usual. Not unaffected, but thier jobs are safe, and finances are in order (I guess). So besides grocery and gas prices, it's not bothering them much.

But for me and several other people I know, the economy is issue number one. I worked in construction (not any more) and I know people attached to the auto industry. We're all very cautious these days and watching every dollar.

[Luke]

Spending was down 2.5% last month, not 50%. So it is quite possible to witness what would appear as brisk business at certain times whilst the overall economy is still slower than before.

Not only is there a recession, but it has to be here and for a long while. Why? The last few years have been unrealistic based on inflated home prices, people cashing in on their fantasy equity and spending ALL OF IT and maxing out their credit cards at the mall. Consumption should have been at least 10% less across the board IMO.

Didn't Barron's just project 42% of small businesses will close within 18 months?

[SvenHock]

I see the recession as well on my end, I am in the drywall/painting business and yes, it is real. I have laid one painter off and my drywall crew is barely getting by. Its just hard to believe when you see all these people out like that. I also think its a good thing as well. Its great for your mental state to see everyone out doing their thing and not sitting home with a black cloud woo is me attitude.

[rob2001]

Didn't Barron's just project 42% of small businesses will close within 18 months?

I used to work for a small Heating and cooling Co. that did mostly new construction. Worked there for 20 years. He's hanging by a thread, if not folded up. I haven't spoke to him in a few months. Yes, it's real!

[Bones]

a lot of people are in denial I think and spending like nothing has changed. I started tightening my belt 2 years ago as the construction industry started hitting the skids. I also invested money in more tools and diversified my skills and started taking jobs I normally would have passed on.

[Blue Strat]

Spending was down 2.5% last month, not 50%. So it is quite possible to witness what would appear as brisk business at certain times whilst the overall economy is still slower than before.

Not only is there a recession, but it has to be here and for a long while. Why? The last few years have been unrealistic based on inflated home prices, people cashing in on their fantasy equity and spending ALL OF IT and maxing out their credit cards at the mall. Consumption should have been at least 10% less across the board IMO.

Didn't Barron's just project 42% of small businesses will close within 18 months?


Wasn't the retail number -2.8%? Anyway, hard to believe that this is such a horrible drop. A lot of businesses are seeing a much steeper drop in business than that.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the following, but this is something I received in my email:

While we have not confirmed any of these stores, we are sure you can go on their web pages and get the latest information. Just use CAUTION.

Beware of buying gift cards form ANY store this Christmas!

STORE CLOSINGS AND LAYOFFS - If you have gift cards use them!!

Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide A company spokeswoman said the company hasn't revealed which stores will be shuttered. It will let the stores that will close this fiscal year know over the next month.

Eddie Bauer to close more stores, Eddie Bauer has already closed 27 shops in the first quarter and plans to close up to two more outlet stores by the end of the year.

Cache closing stores, Women's retailer Cache announced that it is closing 20 to 23 stores this year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Catherines - closing 150 stores nationwide The owner of retailers Lane Bryant , Fashion Bug , Catherines Plus Sizes will close about 150 under performing stores this year. The company hasn't provided a list of specific store closures and can't say when it will offer that info, spokeswoman Brooke Perry said today.

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores, About a month ago, Talbots announced that it will be shuttering all 78 of its kids and men's stores. Now the company says it will close another 22 under performing stores.. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and J. Jill, another chain it owns. The closures will occur this fiscal year, according to a company press release.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores, In addition to its namesake chain, Gap also owns Old Navy and Banana Republic . The company said the closures - all planned for fiscal 2008 - will be weighted toward the Gap brand.

Foot Locker to close 140 stores, In the company press release and during its conference call with analysts today, it did not specify where the future store closures all planned in fiscal 2008 will be. The company could not be immediately reached for comment.

Wickes Furniture is going out of business, Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores, Wickes, a 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed for bankruptcy protection last month.

Levitz / BOMBAY - closed already, The furniture retailer, which is going out of business. Levitz first announced it was going out of business and closing all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to 1910 when Richard Levitz opened his first furniture store in Lebanon, PA. In the 1960s, the warehouse/showroom concept brought Levitz to the forefront of the furniture industry. The local Levitz closures will follow the shutdown of Bombay.

Zales, Piercing Pagoda closing stores, The owner of Zales and Piercing Pagoda previously said it plans to close 82 by July 31. Today, it announced that it is closing another 23 under performing stores. The company said it's not providing a list of specific store closures. Of the 105 locations planned for closure, 50 are kiosks and 55 are stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores The Walt Disney Company announced it acquired about 220 Disney Stores from subsidiaries of The Children's Place Retail Stores. The exact number of stores acquired will depend on negotiations with landlords. Those subsidiaries of Children's Place filed for bankruptcy protection in late March. Walt Disney in the news release said it has also obtained the right to close about 98 Disney Stores in the U.S. The press release didn't list those stores.

Home Depot store closings (E. Brunswick, Rt 18 just put up their closing sign), ATLANTA - Nearly 7+ months after its chief executive said there were no plans to cut the number of its core retail stores, The Home Depot Inc. announced Thursday that it is shuttering 15 of them amid a slumping U.S. economy and housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship store for performance reasons. Its shares rose almost 5 percent. The Atlanta-based company said the under performing U.S.stores being closed represent less than 1 percent of its existing stores. They will be shuttered within the next two months.

CompUSA (CLOSED) clarifies details on store closings Any extended warranties purchased for products through CompUSA will be honored by a third-party provider, Assurant Solutions. Gift cards, rain checks, and rebates purchased prior to December 12 can be redeemed at any time during the final sale. For those who have a gadget currently in for service with CompUSA, the repair will be completed and the gadget will be returned to owners.

Macy's - 9 stores


Movie Gallery - 160 stores as part of reorganization plan to exit bankruptcy. The video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery and Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental chain closed last fall.

Pacific Sunwear - 153 Demo stores

Pep Boys - 33 stores

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations New Sprint Nextel CEO Dan Hesse appears to have inherited a company bleeding subscribers by the thousands, and will now officially be dropping the ax on 4,000 employees and 125 retail locations. Amid the loss of 639,000 postpaid customers in the fourth quarter, Sprint will be cutting a total of 6.7% of its work force (following the 5,000 layoffs last year) and 8% of company-owned brick-and-mortar stores, while remaining mute on other rumors that it will consolidate its headquarters in Kansas . Sprint Nextel shares are down $2.89, or nearly 25%, at the time of this writing.

Ethan Allen Interiors: The company announced plans to close 12 of 300+ stores in an effort to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts - 158 stores

Pacific Sunwear will close its 154 Demo stores after a review of strategic alternatives for the urban-apparel brand. Seventy-four under performing Demo stores closed last May.

Sharper Image: The company recently filed for bankruptcy protection and announced that 90 of its 184 stores are closing. The retailer will still operate 94 stores to pay off debts, but 90 of these stores have performed poorly and also may close.

Bombay Company: (Freehold Mall store closed) The company unveiled plans to close all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company stores. The company's online storefront has discontinued operations.

KB Toys posted a list of 356 stores that it is closing around the United States as part of its bankruptcy reorganization. To see the list of store closings, go to the KB Toys Information web site, and click on Press Information

Dillard's to Close More Stores, Dillard's Inc. said it will continue to focus on closing under performing stores, reducing expenses and improving its merchandise in 2008. At the company's annual shareholder meeting, CEO William Dillard II said the company will close another six under performing stores this year.

Linen-N-Things is closing their stores.There is already a sale in Hickory, NC.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot are scaling back Also add Kirklands and Pier 1 to the list.

[littlejohn]

Yes, there is a recession, but it can depend on the type of business, what area of the country you are in, big city, etc, my company has more sales leads than the areas we are in, we need to expand our footprint I guess.

The media reports, and then adds a little fear which makes for a good story, i.e. "look how everyone is cutting back this Christmas" How each person takes these things depends on their line of work, savings, where they live..like I said....but yea, a lot of folks are hurting for sure.

I was in a packed restaurant last night also, then my son bought an MP3 player an hour later, neither of these purchases were on credit, but bigger items are. I've posted a couple of times on the BMW dealer near my job still asking sticker for their cars, and I still see plenty of things selling on EBAY for $2,3,4K? A retailer just blew me off when I offered them $100 less for a used Hamer Studio @$1600, which the last time I ckecked, they were going for like $1100 or less? So when you look at it that way, well times must not be that tough? So while some firms cut back the others don't see a recession? Not sure?

Somebody still has money to spend on these things...I just got over bid on an $1800 amp on EBAY a few days ago, so? Just because there is a recession out there, doesn't mean "you" have to "participate" in it...at least until I really have to I guess.

[HEY!YOU!]

Life's too short......I spend like a drunken sailor.
Nothing lasts forever....even a recession/depression.

And nobody sucks the life out of party faster than Debbie Downer or the news.

[andyland6]

Life's too short......I spend like a drunken sailor.
Nothing lasts forever....even a recession/depression.

And nobody sucks the life out of party faster than Debbie Downer or the news.


Best post ever.

fin

[Droptop]

I remember being at the checkout line and seeing a caption on one of the grocery store rags that read "Man electrocuted by static cling". Nothing sells in the media like bad news...even if it means stretching the truth a little. There is no denying that layoffs are real and that the Financial Crisis is on most people's minds, however, more than 93% of the population is employed. The chairman of the Fed did his thesis on the Great Depression, countries all over the world are acting quickly to put in policies to ease us out of this and money is being pumped in to the system. Will the affects be immediate...no, but this crisis has also been brewing for years. This too shall pass. In the meantime, question what you read and don't get trapped in frenzy...look for opportunities. Just as people are losing money in this market there are ways to profit. I have not been experiencing ghost towns in the malls, but I have been encountering great deals. I have seen store closings, but in many cases, they weren't stores I was going to on a regular basis to begin with. We still have our basic necesities, food, shelter, transportation, clothing, etc. This will definitely get rid of some of the excess, but we will prevail. Now go out and buy a guitar : )

[davebc]

Hi Mike,
Geez that's one hell of a list!

They forgot to add Strarbucks to the list, also closing stores.
For some odd reason people have become reluctant to shell out 5 bucks for a cup of coffee, (still fun to drive by and see who's sitting in front)

I heard sales "projections" for this holiday season were expected to be -46%.
But, the mall parking lot where Macy's is the anchor was absolutely packed yesterday.(doesn't mean anyone is actually spending money)

There is no good news, not yet.
In fact, expect more bad news. There has been an awful lot of damage done.
Look for continued deleveraging (selling positions at any cost to raise capital) into these rallies as hedge funds must deal with forced redemptions.
Different than 87' you are not seeing the broad company share repurchase.
Banks(and no doubt many of us) are still hording cash.
Starting to see some thaw in the muni market, but we're not ready to build a snowman.
This too shall pass.

[SvenHock]

Life's too short......I spend like a drunken sailor.
Nothing lasts forever....even a recession/depression.

And nobody sucks the life out of party faster than Debbie Downer or the news.


Thank you!! I was beginning to wish I never started this thread. I also like the comment 93% employed. I wonder what percentage of the unemployed are people who can work but wont because of addictions, having babies or laziness?

[mge80]

more than 93% of the population is employed.

More than 93% of the population is employed? :dunno

:)

[Midnight Lady]

I wonder what percentage of the unemployed are people who can work but wont because of addictions, having babies or laziness?That percentage would remain much the same whether recession or inflationary times. Laziness and having babies would not change because of the economic condition.

Don't forget too - re store populations - that this is pre-Christmas so there would automatically be more people shopping. People will buy gifts for their kids even if they don't have a lot of money to spend. Just a thought.

[Luke]

however, more than 93% of the population is employed.

You meant to say only 7% are collecting unemployment benefits.

I know at least 20 people that are in their 50s & 60s that would love to find a job, but not at 20% of what they were making previously. So instead of being "unemployed", they are "retired". What most fail to realize is their SS benefits will be based on their last 10 quarters before eligibility.

[XKnight]

People are creatures of habit. They will keep spending and doing what they normally do until they can't.

[Blue Strat]

You meant to say only 7% are collecting unemployment benefits.

I know at least 20 people that are in their 50s & 60s that would love to find a job, but not at 20% of what they were making previously. So instead of being "unemployed", they are "retired". What most fail to realize is their SS benefits will be based on their last 10 quarters before eligibility.


Aren't the unemployment numbers actually compiled from telephone interviews? I'm 98% sure this is true and, yes, I find it amazing as well. Anyone here know of a person who ever received a call like this? ;)

[screamtone]

You meant to say only 7% are collecting unemployment benefits.


The unemployment rate includes people who are actively looking for work, not just those receiving benefits. The natural rate of unemployment in the US is somewhere around 5%, though some economists argue that it's higher.

Here's some good reading for those interested: http://www.quickmba.com/econ/macro/unemployment/ and Bureau of Labor Statistics. (http://www.bls.gov/CPS/)

[HoboMan]

The company I work for is definitely feeling the recession. We have not hit any projected sales goals in over 7 months. Two people have been laid off. (we have about 30 employees).

Most people with financial problems are not going to tell you about them. I recently found out that a fellow employee is losing their home to foreclosure and is filing for bankruptcy. A person who works in my office told me about someone she knows that is currently in foreclosure and has to be out of their house in two days.
There may be people you work with in similar situations but they are going to come to work talking about them.

As mentioned earlier, people still have credit available to them and will continue to use it.

[Shnook]

I've been scratching my head over this so called 'recession.' The business that I manage is making the most money we've made in 25 years of business with no signs of slowing down. Also, I made the mistake of going to the mall yesterday to find it packed as if it were the weekend before Christmas. The music store across from my house had a full parking lot all day as well. And people were coming out of the door with guitars and amps. Went to dinner last night and had to wait 20 minutes to be seated. If this is a recession, I can't wait for things to get booming again.

[XKnight]

I've been scratching my head over this so called 'recession.' The business that I manage is making the most money we've made in 25 years of business with no signs of slowing down.

It would be interesting to know what kind of business you manage.

[Shnook]

It would be interesting to know what kind of business you manage.

Dog grooming and kennels. People LOVE their dogs and will spend the money trust me. Our kennels have been full or just about full every weekend since summer. We're already over booked for the upcoming holidays. People are traveling and spending the money. I've already received $2000 in bonus money this year since things have gone so well. I'm very grateful.

[Bill Brasky]

Look at how right after 9/11/2001 almost everyone freaked out and overreacted, pulling their money out of the stock market, firing employees thinking it was the end of the world. Look how quickly all that was forgotten. We were told that if we didn't bail out these companies by that Wednesday that world financial markets would collapse. We didn't, then it was Friday we had to bail them out by, then Monday etc.. I think the media are trying to work everyone into a Y2K like panic. 6 months from now, this could all be forgotten. So many large retailers screwed themselves by building their operations to operate at a loss, always hoping to make their profits at Xmas time. What a stupid business model. Now if we don't blow all our money at the mall on Xmas gifts, they'll whine about retail sales as proof of a recession. My family and many others rejected the forced Xmas consumerism of feeling pressured to trade presents with everyone, every year.

[Blue Strat]

There's no doubt that the recession hasn't hit everyone yet, why else would malls and restaurants be full? To use these obsevations as proof that we're not in a recession may be naive.

People have been running up 10s of thousand$ in credit card debt and buying homes and vehicles that they really can't afford over the last decade. This proves that most people are in denial over things economic, in general.

[fredgarvin]

It's nice to know the dogs will be pretty during the apocalypse! Seriously though, business is in serious decline at the least, although it is nothing like the 80's yet, at least in my area. Construction is still going at a lesser rate and timber is being logged. Houses are not selling though which is a pretty bad sign. All of this is to be expected, I'd say but how far we slide is the question.

[Mike Anderson]

You can't judge the extent of the recession by going to your local mall or restaurant. The pain is not evenly distributed, geographically.

Go look at some towns in the midwest, places that used to be manufacturing bases. Or outer-suburban areas in Florida, Nevada or California with high foreclosure rates. These areas are basically in a depression.

Large urban areas that thrive on service and high-tech industries are hit less hard.


I think the media are trying to work everyone into a Y2K like panic. 6 months from now, this could all be forgotten.

I don't think so. The crisis is very real. This is going to hurt.

[Seditious]

I'm glad to hear the positive stories on here.

It's bad where I live. There's 4 forclosures on my street alone right now. I have 2 friends, who both own small business, who are declaring bankruptcy. Over 40 jobs lost right there. The only jobs you see in the classifieds or online are for nurses. I was told by the city manager that we are at 13% unemployment right now.

[Droptop]

I'm glad to hear the positive stories on here.

It's bad where I live. There's 4 forclosures on my street alone right now. I have 2 friends, who both own small business, who are declaring bankruptcy. Over 40 jobs lost right there. The only jobs you see in the classifieds or online are for nurses. I was told by the city manager that we are at 13% unemployment right now.

California does have one of the highest unemployment and foreclosure rates in the nation. I'm fortunate to be close to DC where unemployment is closer to 4.2%. We will make it through this.

[Blue Strat]

California does have one of the highest unemployment and foreclosure rates in the nation. I'm fortunate to be close to DC where unemployment is closer to 4.2%. We will make it through this.

Same here. I'm in Loudoun where 60-75% of recent home "sales" are to banks....ie. forclosures. Check you Sunday Post Metro section. In the back there are local home sales listings. I can't imagine that it's that much different anywhere else in the area.

[HoboMan]

The malls may be crowded but the big question is, are people buying.
The malls are commonly used as gathering places for social outings. A great place to have a cheap night out.

[HoboMan]

Dog grooming and kennels. People LOVE their dogs and will spend the money trust me. Our kennels have been full or just about full every weekend since summer. We're already over booked for the upcoming holidays. People are traveling and spending the money. I've already received $2000 in bonus money this year since things have gone so well. I'm very grateful.

A good business to be in. I heard a story on the news that doctors & dentists have a much harder time collecting payment than vets. People will pay thier pet bills much quicker.

[Shnook]

The malls may be crowded but the big question is, are people buying.
The malls are commonly used as gathering places for social outings. A great place to have a cheap night out.

They were buying where I was at yesterday. I was in American Eagle and they had 3 registers going and I still had at least a 10 minute wait to get thru the checkout line. I paid cash, but I imagine most were using credit cards.... :messedup I remember standing in line yesterday thinking, 'I thought we were in a recession.'

[Blue Strat]

A good business to be in. I heard a story on the news that doctors & dentists have a much harder time collecting payment than vets. People will pay thier pet bills much quicker.

People don't pay their vet and doctor bills on the way out the door? What planet does this happen on? ;)

[Droptop]

Same here. I'm in Loudoun where 60-75% of recent home "sales" are to banks....ie. forclosures. Check you Sunday Post Metro section. In the back there are local home sales listings. I can't imagine that it's that much different anywhere else in the area.
Loudon and Prince William County are having a tough time, but the inventory has been getting consumed. The last stats I saw were giving average consumption rates of 8-10 months as opposed to 14-16 months like a year ago. Arlington had 80 foreclosures last month and the numbers were also low for McLean and Vienna. On the flip side, its a great time to buy a house. There are some great deals out there.

[HoboMan]

People don't pay their vet and doctor bills on the way out the door? What planet does this happen on? ;)

I never pay for lab work, doctor or vet, up front. I always get billed for it.
I'm thinking your doctor & vet don't trust you.

[Droptop]

I always pay on the way out.

[getbent]

anecdote + anecdote ≠ data

there are whole chains of stores shutting down here and more to come... the foreclosures in our neighborhood were put on a map in the local paper... it was insane... the city is 'painting' the lawns of the foreclosed houses so that squatters don't readily see the vacant houses and dead lawns... and they are flying over the neighborhoods with helicopters spraying vacant pools for mosquitoes...

several people I know have decided to spend until they are out and then they'll 'get serious'....

enjoy the dinner and the cd's, but realize there are people who are gonna really get pounded by this... I'm lucky to have lived pretty carefully, but even so, if it gets bad enough, it could directly effect me too. Maybe this will be an opportunity to fix somethings, I dunno.

[Blue Strat]

I never pay for lab work, doctor or vet, up front. I always get billed for it.
I'm thinking your doctor & vet don't trust you.


I'm thinking we live in different worlds:) You're in the midwest, I'm on the east coast. Pretty much different worlds.

To be honest, I've never considered not paying at time of service. Maybe it's an option but that's not how I roll. I also have no debt. :BEER

[HoboMan]

I always pay my deductible at time of visit for a regular visit but never get charged for any lab work. I always get billed later.

I had a hernia operation a few years ago and didn't pay anything until it went thru my insurance. I wasn't billed until about two months after the fact.

I will say this much, grew up in NC and moved to the midwest from Los Angeles in 1999. The midwest is DEFINITELY different from other places.
I won't elaborate because I know there are other members here from the midwest.

[michael30]

The music store across from my house had a full parking lot all day as well. And people were coming out of the door with guitars and amps.

Could be a panic reaction. "If I don't buy this now, I won't be able to do it when things get bad". Been there, done that. :jo

[Blue Strat]

I always pay my deductible at time of visit for a regular visit but never get charged for any lab work. I always get billed later.

I had a hernia operation a few years ago and didn't pay anything until it went thru my insurance. I wasn't billed until about two months after the fact.

I will say this much, grew up in NC and moved to the midwest from Los Angeles in 1999. The midwest is DEFINITELY different from other places.
I won't elaborate because I know there are other members here from the midwest.

Re doctors visits, I've only paid co-pays in recent years (or longer) at time of service so my perspective on office visits is different.

On vet visits, I pay on the way out.

[pbradt]

Our total debt load is $1100. We rent. I'm still trying to convince J we should buy an RV because sooner or later our jobs are going to go away and we are going to need a roof for us and the cats.

We are headed for a depression that makes the 1930s look like good times. I'm stocking up on staples, water purifying gear and chemicals and certain other things I won't talk about here.

[bluesjuke]

Could be a panic reaction. "If I don't buy this now, I won't be able to do it when things get bad". Been there, done that. :jo


I think that will come to a screeching halt.

GC will be closing store en mass I'll bet.
I think we are in for a very long, rougher than anything time any of us here have ever been through or imagined.

I think there will be people even like myself that have +1 credit and always pay everything ahead of time, with a good job (now) that will end up losing everthing, house included.
My only debt is my mortgage and I still worry.

And I think it's sad.

[Droptop]

I think that will come to a screeching halt.

GC will be closing store en mass I'll bet.
I think we are in for a very long, rougher than anything time any of us here have ever been through or imagined.

I think there will be people even like myself that have +1 credit and always pay everything ahead of time, with a good job (now) that will end up losing everthing, house included.
My only debt is my mortgage and I still worry.

And I think it's sad.

This too shall pass.

[Solomon]

The world will not come to an end because we can no longer buy big screen TV's for every room in the house, SUV's for our 3 & 4 car garages, Viking ranges & Subzero refrigerators, etc. At the end of the day it is all just stuff. Disposable stuff at that. Yeah, it will hurt but let's get a grip.

[Kingbeegtrs]

all I'm gettng are offers for trades. I have had some really spectacular offers but I simply don't need any amps.

[Blue Strat]

Could be a panic reaction. "If I don't buy this now, I won't be able to do it when things get bad". Been there, done that. :jo


That's not all bad. At least it helps offset the "self fulfilling prophecy" aspect. ;) Hard assets also resist inflation and devaluation of currency.

[bluesjuke]

The world will not come to an end because we can no longer buy big screen TV's for every room in the house, SUV's for our 3 & 4 car garages, Viking ranges & Subzero refrigerators, etc. At the end of the day it is all just stuff. Disposable stuff at that. Yeah, it will hurt but let's get a grip.



The stuff isn't important.
Our concern will be more for income, food and shelter.

[Blue Strat]

The world will not come to an end because we can no longer buy big screen TV's for every room in the house, SUV's for our 3 & 4 car garages, Viking ranges & Subzero refrigerators, etc. At the end of the day it is all just stuff. Disposable stuff at that. Yeah, it will hurt but let's get a grip.


Some of the most optimistic projections predict we'll be much worse off than having to stop buying luxury items we can't afford. Time will tell.:BEER

[cottoneyedjoe]

Wasn't the retail number -2.8%? Anyway, hard to believe that this is such a horrible drop. A lot of businesses are seeing a much steeper drop in business than that.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the following, but this is something I received in my email:

While we have not confirmed any of these stores, we are sure you can go on their web pages and get the latest information. Just use CAUTION.

Beware of buying gift cards form ANY store this Christmas!

STORE CLOSINGS AND LAYOFFS - If you have gift cards use them!!

Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide A company spokeswoman said the company hasn't revealed which stores will be shuttered. It will let the stores that will close this fiscal year know over the next month.

Eddie Bauer to close more stores, Eddie Bauer has already closed 27 shops in the first quarter and plans to close up to two more outlet stores by the end of the year.

Cache closing stores, Women's retailer Cache announced that it is closing 20 to 23 stores this year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Catherines - closing 150 stores nationwide The owner of retailers Lane Bryant , Fashion Bug , Catherines Plus Sizes will close about 150 under performing stores this year. The company hasn't provided a list of specific store closures and can't say when it will offer that info, spokeswoman Brooke Perry said today.

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores, About a month ago, Talbots announced that it will be shuttering all 78 of its kids and men's stores. Now the company says it will close another 22 under performing stores.. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and J. Jill, another chain it owns. The closures will occur this fiscal year, according to a company press release.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores, In addition to its namesake chain, Gap also owns Old Navy and Banana Republic . The company said the closures - all planned for fiscal 2008 - will be weighted toward the Gap brand.

Foot Locker to close 140 stores, In the company press release and during its conference call with analysts today, it did not specify where the future store closures all planned in fiscal 2008 will be. The company could not be immediately reached for comment.

Wickes Furniture is going out of business, Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores, Wickes, a 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed for bankruptcy protection last month.

Levitz / BOMBAY - closed already, The furniture retailer, which is going out of business. Levitz first announced it was going out of business and closing all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to 1910 when Richard Levitz opened his first furniture store in Lebanon, PA. In the 1960s, the warehouse/showroom concept brought Levitz to the forefront of the furniture industry. The local Levitz closures will follow the shutdown of Bombay.

Zales, Piercing Pagoda closing stores, The owner of Zales and Piercing Pagoda previously said it plans to close 82 by July 31. Today, it announced that it is closing another 23 under performing stores. The company said it's not providing a list of specific store closures. Of the 105 locations planned for closure, 50 are kiosks and 55 are stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores The Walt Disney Company announced it acquired about 220 Disney Stores from subsidiaries of The Children's Place Retail Stores. The exact number of stores acquired will depend on negotiations with landlords. Those subsidiaries of Children's Place filed for bankruptcy protection in late March. Walt Disney in the news release said it has also obtained the right to close about 98 Disney Stores in the U.S. The press release didn't list those stores.

Home Depot store closings (E. Brunswick, Rt 18 just put up their closing sign), ATLANTA - Nearly 7+ months after its chief executive said there were no plans to cut the number of its core retail stores, The Home Depot Inc. announced Thursday that it is shuttering 15 of them amid a slumping U.S. economy and housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship store for performance reasons. Its shares rose almost 5 percent. The Atlanta-based company said the under performing U.S.stores being closed represent less than 1 percent of its existing stores. They will be shuttered within the next two months.

CompUSA (CLOSED) clarifies details on store closings Any extended warranties purchased for products through CompUSA will be honored by a third-party provider, Assurant Solutions. Gift cards, rain checks, and rebates purchased prior to December 12 can be redeemed at any time during the final sale. For those who have a gadget currently in for service with CompUSA, the repair will be completed and the gadget will be returned to owners.

Macy's - 9 stores


Movie Gallery - 160 stores as part of reorganization plan to exit bankruptcy. The video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery and Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental chain closed last fall.

Pacific Sunwear - 153 Demo stores

Pep Boys - 33 stores

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations New Sprint Nextel CEO Dan Hesse appears to have inherited a company bleeding subscribers by the thousands, and will now officially be dropping the ax on 4,000 employees and 125 retail locations. Amid the loss of 639,000 postpaid customers in the fourth quarter, Sprint will be cutting a total of 6.7% of its work force (following the 5,000 layoffs last year) and 8% of company-owned brick-and-mortar stores, while remaining mute on other rumors that it will consolidate its headquarters in Kansas . Sprint Nextel shares are down $2.89, or nearly 25%, at the time of this writing.

Ethan Allen Interiors: The company announced plans to close 12 of 300+ stores in an effort to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts - 158 stores

Pacific Sunwear will close its 154 Demo stores after a review of strategic alternatives for the urban-apparel brand. Seventy-four under performing Demo stores closed last May.

Sharper Image: The company recently filed for bankruptcy protection and announced that 90 of its 184 stores are closing. The retailer will still operate 94 stores to pay off debts, but 90 of these stores have performed poorly and also may close.

Bombay Company: (Freehold Mall store closed) The company unveiled plans to close all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company stores. The company's online storefront has discontinued operations.

KB Toys posted a list of 356 stores that it is closing around the United States as part of its bankruptcy reorganization. To see the list of store closings, go to the KB Toys Information web site, and click on Press Information

Dillard's to Close More Stores, Dillard's Inc. said it will continue to focus on closing under performing stores, reducing expenses and improving its merchandise in 2008. At the company's annual shareholder meeting, CEO William Dillard II said the company will close another six under performing stores this year.

Linen-N-Things is closing their stores.There is already a sale in Hickory, NC.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot are scaling back Also add Kirklands and Pier 1 to the list.

I worked for one of the above mentioned companies. The cutbacks in our case had nothing to do with economic times, but had EVERYTHING to do with poor, and I mean PISS POOR corporate management.

However, having said that, I know many people in upper levels of retail management. Spending is down across the board 30% compared to last year. If you work for a public company, comp (what you make this year vs. last) has a lot to say for your stock standing.

Many retailers are simply putting a hold on new projects. They are taking care of currently established projects, but limiting new merchandising and building plans.

The problem is that the jig is up. People are simply holding onto their money for the fact that they don't want to spend it to make somebody else more money they do not need. They have no confidence in upper or corporate management in many cases. That was the problem DIRECTLY with the company I worked for listed above. If you screw the customer again and again, while not adding new vital employees that bring fresh views to the table, you WILL have to close or reorganize. If you lose customer confidence you lose the company. That was not due to the economy, but poor management.

That is not an economic problem, that is a management problem. Also, being close to some other higher management in the companies you have listed as well go to prove my point also. I can name at least four companies on this list that had nothing to do with the economy but had everything to do with poor management techniques and customer service.

In a recession, only the best survive. Be the best and you have nothing to worry about. Make bad decisions and you have everything to worry about.

[A.Pulverizer]

I don't get out much as I've only worked 3 months this year (I work construction), but I live in a town of about 2500 and half the shops on main street are vacant/for rent. The Ford dealership went under and I think the "music store" went under too (I think it was more of a hang out for their kids anyway though) No projects coming up in my area. Lucky for me, I'm an ugly F-er, because if I had kids to support, I'd be worried. As it stands, just looking out for watashi should be doable.

[Solomon]

Well, if people are not going to be able to afford to buy lots of stuff then maybe they will once again learn to value and appreciate quality in what they can afford to buy. I think that is a pretty significant silver lining to this current mess.

[Droptop]

What businesses other than pet care can survive/thrive during these hard times?

[Mike Anderson]

What businesses other than pet care can survive/thrive during these hard times?

Bankruptcy lawyers have a lot of work.

[bluesjuke]

Well, if people are not going to be able to afford to buy lots of stuff then maybe they will once again learn to value and appreciate quality in what they can afford to buy. I think that is a pretty significant silver lining to this current mess.


The wisdom of Solomon!

You're right Solomon and it's something we all need to do even if times weren't like this.

SOmetimes we have to be steered in the right direction.

[amigo30]

The world will not come to an end because we can no longer buy big screen TV's for every room in the house, SUV's for our 3 & 4 car garages, Viking ranges & Subzero refrigerators, etc. At the end of the day it is all just stuff. Disposable stuff at that. Yeah, it will hurt but let's get a grip.

Yep. But then all the electronics stores and SUV stores close, and then the suppliers close. Then those guys are out of work, and quit buying stuff from Home Depot and Sears. Then those guys close, and their suppliers close, so the factories close.. Then everybody stops buying anything..

Pretty soon there are a whole lot of hungry people looking for a loaf of bread and a place to get out of the rain....

[Droptop]

Yep. But then all the electronics stores and SUV stores close, and then the suppliers close. Then those guys are out of work, and quit buying stuff from Home Depot and Sears. Then those guys close, and their suppliers close, so the factories close.. Then everybody stops buying anything..

Pretty soon there are a whole lot of hungry people looking for a loaf of bread and a place to get out of the rain....

That or the ones that lose their jobs get other jobs in other fields. The demand for electronic products will scale down, not disappear. This too shall soon pass.

[Solomon]

Yep. But then all the electronics stores and SUV stores close, and then the suppliers close. Then those guys are out of work, and quit buying stuff from Home Depot and Sears. Then those guys close, and their suppliers close, so the factories close.. Then everybody stops buying anything..

Pretty soon there are a whole lot of hungry people looking for a loaf of bread and a place to get out of the rain....

Possibly. Maybe even probable. So then it will be our time to step up and help those who are less fortunate and maybe we will come out the other side richer than we went into it. A challenge no doubt but since when have we been afraid of challenges?

By the way, I look forward to the day when our politicians and news media start calling us citizens/people again when they refer to us and not consumers. Think I am kidding? Start paying attention and you will see how prevalent that is the case.