Gigging Players and Your Bands

[SvenHock]

Being that we are in a very tight economical crunch and quite a few of us here are in bands because (duh) we like to play, if I may ask, what kind of money are you guys usually walking out with per gig/per man and have you been asked by club owners to work with them to get through this?

The reason I'm curious is the band I'm in, a couple of the guys are refusing to drop our price because they do not feel its right and we are "better than that". Sorry fellas but I do not agree with that frame of mind in today's economy.

I'm seeing some good, upcoming bands sliding into the clubs we have been playing and noticing that these new bands are hungry and they are also good at what they do.

We all have day jobs and this is extra income but the most resistive person is the one who owns all the P.A. equipment and he gets a cut off the top so hes has very strong feelings of not budging.

So what to do? Are these guys doing the right thing I'm playing with and I'm a complete moron about my stance on this or do you try and work with the clubs?

[Lucidology]

The "we are better then that" will utimately be your band's demise in today's club scene

Even been through situations where I had to start playing with
different musicians because that kind of prevailing attitude kept us, as a team,
from playing much at all ...

With the state of this particular economy ...
it's become more about quanity, as compared to quality of paying gigs..

At least in my case as a fulltime musician ..
it's all about how the money adds up at the end of the month...

Just a really good paying gig here & there simply isn't enough to pay the bills ...

[SvenHock]

The "we are better then that" will utimately be your band's demise in today's club scene

Even been through situations where I had to start playing with different musicians because that kind of prevailing attitude kept us, as a team, from playing at all ...

With the state of this particular economy ...
it's become more about quanity, as compared to quality of paying gigs..

At least in my case as a fulltime musician ..
it's all about how the money adds up at the end of the month...

Just a really good paying gig here and there doesn't pay the bills ...

I agree 100%!! I thought my thinking was pretty accurate on this subject. I just need to get some feedback.

I have been getting together with other musicians trying to get something else going and its not been easy so far.

I feel for you guys who do this for a living and the way things are out here. But then again, its hitting us all right now.

[DavidE]

We won't drop our price over what we got at a particular club this year, but we lost a good sound guy who wanted to up his price to us but we're not making more, so we're not paying more. There are others. We're booked at several clubs through December 2009. No raise for 2009. We're booking new places, but some places apparently can't or won't pay our price next year. We're also booking more acoustic duo gigs, but those have always been plentiful and are more lucrative. I like the combination myself. As it stands today, we're already getting pretty booked up for next year and we will be turning down gigs again. No, we're not great. No, we're not the most popular band in town. We just do a good job and have a way of getting people to spend money at the bar when they come to see us. The bar would rather see a 3/4 full room of alcohol drinkers than an overpacked room of water drinkers.

If you did a good job and the club made money, they'll want to keep you.

[matthet]

we get anywhere from 60 bucks a person to 100 bucks a person
it's a five piece
it mainly depends on the bar and size
some of em pay us based on the crowd we bring (that's usually the first time we play there)

most bars that know us, know how much promo we do, and know that we'll bring a good crowd so they guarantee us a decent pay, plus they feed us and offer a free tab, but we have a don't get drunk/drink at all rule so we don't suck any more than usual, that actually ends up putting more money in our pocket

[frank62]

We had to sell the Lear Jet last week. Times is hard, very hard. Last Monday we pulled down an amazing 245 US Dollars split 5 ways.

[8Painting]

never less than 400, were starting to ask for 5-6-700, depending on the bar traffic, i.e. how many people we can bring in, plus, normal volume.

If a bar has a built in crowed, like a college town bar, on a friday night, them paying you anything less than 500-600 is bullshit.

[SGNick]

Phht... We've been playing for free to high school kids because they're a better crowd!

[kevin hart]

I played with a 5 piece band for the last 10 years or so that was very successful both popularity wise and financially. We hired sound, lights and someone to book us. When the band ended last year I put together a 4 piece band with some friends and we bought or own sound & lights and book the band ourselves. We're not the biggest drawing band in town, but with a little extra work moving gear and booking gigs combined with a lower price to club owners and only 4 guys to divide the profits, we're working as much as any band in town and probably making more per man than most. Given the club scene in my town I think it was a smart move.

[Birddog]

I play in a bar band. And I love it.

We've had 7-800 dollar nights, but last weekend played for $250 at a small local bar who books us and one other band fairly regularly.

None of us are in it for the money. Would we like to make more? Yes. Do we think we're undercutting other bands? No. This bar would not have bands if they didn't play cheap. They can't afford it, I don't blame them, and I don't mind having a venue to play and have fun.

[Guitar Josh]

Lots of business will try and pass this off when it's not true. If they have the same volume, and are charging the same beer prices, then they can pay the same fees.

[loudboy]

Your price is your price - if it's not worth it to the guy who owns the PA, and several other of the guys, then don't take the gig. You all have day jobs, right? If you just want to play, give the other guys your cut?

There's ALWAYS going to be someone better than you, just as there's ALWAYS going to be someone who will play for less.

In this market, it's all about asses in seats - if you don't make the bar more than they're paying you, they won't have you back.

[HEAVENandHELL]

I've been in a cover band for years now but since we all have day jobs we've never taken it seriously. That being said, we solidified our lineup and decided to step up and do it right in 2008. We are currently booked 1 or 2 shows every weekend from now until Christmas (more solidly booked than we've ever wanted to be before). I now treat the band like a 2nd job, albeit a fun-as-hell 2nd job!

We are making more cash per show than ever in the past and are getting more gigs. Yes the economy is bad, but if your band is making it happen, there should be plenty of good gigs around. At least that is what we are finding out. Perhaps we are taking a slice of the gig-pie from other bands in our area, but if so we are not doing it by undercutting their price, unless they make BIG CASH.

[TNJ]

I play in a 5 piece (6 piece if you count the sound man, and I do) classic rock (80's/90's) outfit. We are really good and own our own lights/PA. The soundguy brings his preamp efx/board and mixes...good at it, too.
It's a HELL of alot of work to do a 2 nighter, and just kills my weekend (during the day I hide under the nearest rock). The gig is fun, though, because the band is tight and talented. We are packing them in now, wherever we play. The tragedy is, we get peanuts for playing. This past weekend, packed club, packed dance floor both nights...screaming patrons, enjoying themselves for 4 solid sets of rock. Our pay for 2 nights of sweaty, albeit, fun work? $700...for 6 guys. What's that... $116 or so apiece. $58 bucks a night...and the venue is an hour's drive from my house. We're worth more than that, but in these economic times, that may be the ceiling. I'm gonna call our booking agent, and demand that we get $60 per man/night after expenses (meaning his 12%). Anything below that, find another band. I'll see what he says, and get back to you.

S.
j

[billm408]

Like you Sven, my main band is a "just for fun" project and so far we haven't been asked to cut our rates, but we would if the choice was playing for less or not playing at all. We have our own PA and lights which helps and we typically get $500 for a bar gig. Historically, people tend to drink more in hard economic times and we noticed better than average crowds at our last two gigs. I don't think it's because we got better. Just sayin'

[neastguy]

we play for fun... this past Saturday I got paid.. $65 lol... but we had fun...first time playing without any pedals.. not even a tuner...lol........ normally its in the $90 - $100 range...

well I had a laser tuner in my pocket....

[Dennis Rayburn]

I'm in a 5 piece cover band in Connecticut that plays about 3-6 times per month. We're all 45-60 years old, we play mostly 60's and 70's dance material (motown, classic rock, disco, some country) and we mostly appeal to people over 30. We get $80 to $100 apiece for clubs and $100-$130 or so for a cruise we play regularly in the summer.

We're busier now than we've been the last 3 or 4 years and we don't anticipate a downturn. Our two main clubs are kind of upscale (they're nice restaurants as well). If we couldn't get the money we're used to want I imagine we'd go with the flow and take less because we all take gigging very seriously and love to do it, and none of us depends on the money.

[SvenHock]

If we couldn't get the money we're used to want I imagine we'd go with the flow and take less because we all take gigging very seriously and love to do it, and none of us depends on the money.

This is exactly how I feel but a couple of them do not. The bass player made a major investment (we did not ask him to) in P.A. gear before we even started the band. He already had the gear and told us he needed to make X amount of $$ per gig to pay for the gear. Two of the original members that were at that meeting are long gone, one left almost right away because of the money thing and the second member within months.

[Lt_Core]

I play in a 5-piece rock cover band in northeast Wisconsin. Our music scene is pretty good right now. We're in our mid-to-late 30's and this is just our weekend fun job, as we all have kids/families and good jobs.

We've been playing live for almost 4 years. We average around $1200 per show. Most bar gigs are between $1000 and $1400. Private/corporate parties are a lot more, as well as big outdoor festivals and stuff like that.

[DavidE]

This is exactly how I feel but a couple of them do not. The bass player made a major investment (we did not ask him to) in P.A. gear before we even started the band. He already had the gear and told us he needed to make X amount of $$ per gig to pay for the gear. Two of the original members that were at that meeting are long gone, one left almost right away because of the money thing and the second member within months.


Pay the sound guy first. If he's a band member, pay him some agreed upon amount for the p.a. use and then split the rest.

[DavidE]

I play in a 5-piece rock cover band in northeast Wisconsin. Our music scene is pretty good right now. We're in our mid-to-late 30's and this is just our weekend fun job, as we all have kids/families and good jobs.

We've been playing live for almost 4 years. We average around $1200 per show. Most bar gigs are between $1000 and $1400. Private/corporate parties are a lot more, as well as big outdoor festivals and stuff like that.

Are those numbers average for any band or just a small number of bands?

[devinb]

My first thought is this: If you agree to take less now because of the state of the economy, do you really expect to get more money when things turn around? In my experience, pay for live music is the sort of thing that has rarely moved in the direction that most of us want it to.

Second, unless you're in the union, and you're playing places that use union musicians, someone will take those shows for less...so where do you draw the line? Do you enable the bars to rip you and others off, or do you make a moral stand and just miss out all together?

[scorpio]

I am an older guy in a 4 piece classic rock band. Every one of us has a good daytime job. We do this because we like it but we do take it seriously. We play about twice a month which is really all we want to play. Every time we play somewhere, a new opportunity arises to play other places. We don't promote ourselves. When we play, the bar usually does well. That is what keeps us booked. We usually make about $125-$175 per man. We do not travel over 20 miles to gig. I guess we are lucky because we live in a small community and competition for the type music that we do is practically non- existent.
Would we play for less? Probably. We will not play at a loss just to play though. We are just as happy practicing and not moving all that equipment.

[ezyrydr]

My band played at a bar several times where we were on pretty good terms with the owner. We came up with some unusual terms that worked out really well.

We played from 9-2, this included breaks.
At the end of the night he cashed out the register, with us there. Showed us the receipt and as previously agreed we got 20% of everything the bar made between 9 and 2.

Win win because we tried to get as many people there as possible and encouraged everyone throughout the night to eat and drink so we got more $ because of it. And they gave the band free dinner and an open bar tab.

This only works when you can really trust the owner of the bar and you know you're going to have a nice turnout.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Depends on the gig with the working band between 1500-3000, average 100 gigs/yr. which translates to 250$ average a guy per gig.

[Phil M]

I play in a 5-piece rock cover band in northeast Wisconsin. Our music scene is pretty good right now. We're in our mid-to-late 30's and this is just our weekend fun job, as we all have kids/families and good jobs.

We've been playing live for almost 4 years. We average around $1200 per show. Most bar gigs are between $1000 and $1400. Private/corporate parties are a lot more, as well as big outdoor festivals and stuff like that.

That's pretty great (IMO).

[matthet]

That's pretty great (IMO).
yea, that's pretty dang solid
we're a local band, that normally hurts our pay. most bars seem to think because you're local you get paid less

[MikeNiteRail]

I try to do at least $80 a guy...anywhere from two to five pieces. I might take less if gigs are slow or we need to get a foot in the door. In one of my bands, we had a few gigs over $1,000 for a four piece. In my band the most has been $800 for a four piece. I do not cover top 40 or play any bar standards in that band.

[stratotonedude]

It really depends on the situation. But I'd like to think that the time I put in to become the experienced versatile musician that I am is worth at least something. I like to think of myself as an experienced versatile musician for hire. I give my card out to experienced band leaders who get paying gigs. When they need me to play a date or a series of dates they call me and I mark the dates on my calendar. I tend to gig pretty regularly.

[BigJamesyBoy]

For original, promotional gigs the pay is usually pretty bad. But we also do covers to get the paying gigs which average between $1000-$3000. I also put myself out as a musician for hire on the nights where I have nothing booked which is usually another $100-$200 per night.

[Warse22]

Well, in Canada our economy has held out a little better, but the city I'm from basically runs on the oil and gas economy and with the drop in prices I did have one gig canceled because the company said they were "cutting back" on Christmas party expenses. That one was going to be $400 per guy, so that stung. Luckily, we had a contract signed with them so they'll be paying me $175 to play somewhere else that night.

I find that genre also has a lot to do with pay. I play guitar for a fairly well know Canadian pop artist that pays great - $250 or more per appearance. I play keys for a Funk/Soul/RnB band that does corporate parties that also pays very well, usually in the $300 range. I do two jazz gigs on keys as well and it's usually considerably less, one house gig right now is paying $90/guy and it's a great band.

[Lt_Core]

Are those numbers average for any band or just a small number of bands?

I would say there are around 10-15 really good bands in the area all making that, give or take. We always pay our sound guy first. We had two goals when we started:

1. Professional sound & lights starting with our first show. The best band in the world will sound like crap through a horrible PA. We're there to entertain so lights and sound are a big deal to us.

2. When this band becomes a "job" then we're closing up shop. I don't need another job. We started as a 6-piece but we've been a 5-piece for almost 2 years. I'm the only guitarist now. Everyone still gets along with not many arguments. Just a really great bunch of guys and the bassist is my brother so it's cool that way, too.

The best thing we did was buy an Allen & Heath monitor board and five PSM-600 wireless systems. Our monitor mix is the same for every show and our soundchecks are barely half a song since we use the same sound guys.

[m@2]

wow, i guess we are really underpaid. $500 for a bar gig in this town is pretty rare. (we did get that in the 90's, but not these days) it's usually 100-250 for a gig.

[drgonzoguitar]

The trio I am in gets $375 to $500 a night. We split even 3 ways. It is less money than what I used to make playing, but that is life. I can pay for my student loans (a.k.a. mortgage on my brain) and my daughters preschool with the money I make.

For the OP, you might have to find another group to play with (as Lucid mentioned) to keep playing.

[Guitar Dave T]

Dallas Fort Worth Club Scale is generally around $100 a man on weekends in the circles I travel. Weeknights you can generally make as much if you scale down from a 4 to 3 piece. I will do it for as little as $80 or $90 if the club is known for good tipping. We used to pull in $15 to $30 per man in tips, $40 on a real good night, but now we're averaging $10 to $18.

Last weekend we did substantially better on tips, plus $400 flat pay ($100 a man) by putting the tip jar up high on a cymbal stand in front of the stage. Next week we're going to mount some LED lights pointing up under it. The jar also pops easily off the stand so someone can walk it through the crowd.

Oh, and we do not play rooms that charge cover. No one wins in this market when there's a cover.

[Guitar Dave T]

wow, i guess we are really underpaid. $500 for a bar gig in this town is pretty rare. (we did get that in the 90's, but not these days) it's usually 100-250 for a gig.

Damn. How can the scale be so low in a place where the cost of living is so high? My heart goes out to ya, man.

[Lt_Core]

Damn. How can the scale be so low in a place where the cost of living is so high? My heart goes out to ya, man.

Same here....that doesn't make sense. Is the market totally flooded with bands, driving the price down with so much competition?

We also don't like playing for cover charges. Very rarely we'll take a set amount plus a percentage of the door when we know it will work out to our advantage.

All new shows we book in 2009 are $1200-1300 minimum and we book out 6 to 9 months in advance. We'd better enjoy it while it lasts.

[Guitar Dave T]

Same here....that doesn't make sense. Is the market totally flooded with bands, driving the price down with so much competition?

We also don't like playing for cover charges. Very rarely we'll take a set amount plus a percentage of the door when we know it will work out to our advantage.

All new shows we book in 2009 are $1200-1300 minimum and we book out 6 to 9 months in advance. We'd better enjoy it while it lasts.

$1,200 - $1,300 minimum would be the low water mark for private parties, but clubs pay much less in our market. What venues are you playing for that kind of scale?

[Lt_Core]

$1,200 - $1,300 minimum would be the low water mark for private parties, but clubs pay much less in our market. What venues are you playing for that kind of scale?

The $1200 price are small to medium-sized local clubs and bars. We played a Halloween show at a local bar and had 500 people show up. New Year's Eve we average between 500-800 usually. Most regular bar gigs we get between 125-200 people on average.

Private/corporate parties are around twice as much, if not more. Outdoor festivals are also big money in the summer.

[jpastras]

Originally Posted by Guitar Dave T http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5046504#post5046504)
$1,200 - $1,300 minimum would be the low water mark for private parties, but clubs pay much less in our market. What venues are you playing for that kind of scale?


LT_Core, I echo Guitar Dave T's sentiments. That money seems about right for private parties around Atlanta, but the club market here pays considerably less. The kind of money you're pulling in for club dates is kind of suprising to me.

Usually, a good band can demand a minimum of $125 per man on a Friday or Saturday night, less during the week. The maximum for a cub would never be as high as $200, and you're probably going to work as no more than four piece to make that money.

To be clear, these are small-to medium sized venues that cater to blues and covers.

[Lt_Core]

LT_Core, I echo Guitar Dave T's sentiments. That money seems about right for private parties around Atlanta, but the club market here pays considerably less. The kind of money you're pulling in for club dates is kind of suprising to me.

Usually, a good band can demand a minimum of $125 per man on a Friday or Saturday night, less during the week. The maximum for a cub would never be as high as $200, and you're probably going to work as no more than four piece to make that money.

To be clear, these are small-to medium sized venues that cater to blues and covers.

Yes, small-to-medium sized venues with cover bands. Not a lot of blues up here in Wisconsin. Mostly rock cover bands of various types. I'm not trying to brag at all, this is what most of the bands in the area are getting for regular weekend bar gigs. Northeast Wisconsin has always had a great local bar scene for music. My brother's former band in the late 90's, early 2000's was getting $2000 and up for regular bar gigs. Crazy!

[jpastras]

Well, I am really happy that there are parts of the US that still show that much love for live music!

[franksguitar]

Being in cover bands varied. When doing clubs as a 5 piece avg was $100 a man plus tips. Corporate gigs paid the big bucks 2-3 grand a night. Best one was 2 gigs in one weekend when we made $5 grand & tips and customer paid our hotel & expenses and took home a grand plus each. BBQ Blues joints pay the worst $50 + tips. I freelance and make $100-150 a night. Nowadays with the economy gigs are harder to get.

[guitrr]

I play in a 5-piece rock cover band in northeast Wisconsin. Our music scene is pretty good right now. We're in our mid-to-late 30's and this is just our weekend fun job, as we all have kids/families and good jobs.

We've been playing live for almost 4 years. We average around $1200 per show. Most bar gigs are between $1000 and $1400. Private/corporate parties are a lot more, as well as big outdoor festivals and stuff like that.

Holy crap! I need to move to Wisconsin, LOL!

My main group is a 4 piece, and we frequently hire an additional percussionist. We're all mid 40's to mid 50's in age, all with regular jobs, and we play the normal american middle aged demographic rock/blues/R&B bar mix of material. I own the PA, the bass play owns a small rudimentary light setup, and we do our own sound from onstage, playing small and midsize clubs in the Daytona Beach area, with occasional forays into the Orlando area (but charge more to travel).

The clubs around here pay between $300-$500 a night, regardless of whether you're a three piece or a ten piece band. I'd say the norm for our type of band is around $400, for a 9-1am show. Tips vary wildly; we've made as much as $200. and as little as $4.00. Corporate and private gigs are few around here, but generally pay between $800. - $1500.

One thing we do for extra money is this: Closing time here is 2am, yet bands are booked from 9-1. If 1am rolls around, the dance floor is cooking and the bar is busy, we'll offer to play an additional 30 or 60 minutes, for 50 or 100 bucks respectively. We've never had a bar manager refuse that offer.

Country bands gig the most and make the best money here in Central Florida. Rock and blues bands do alright, and jazz players barely make anything, simply because hardly anyone books jazz here. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

Kane

[JohnnyRock]

Lt Core's numbers are about right in the ballpark for what we get paid as well -- upper midwest -- small to medium size bars -- 4 piece band -- private parties and special events (such as NYE) are quite a bit more.

[DavidE]

When you guys say $100 or $125 per man, is that PLUS money for sound or running the sound yourself?

[Guitar Dave T]

When you guys say $100 or $125 per man, is that PLUS money for sound or running the sound yourself?

Small to midsize bars, we run our own, using a 600 watt Yamaha powered mixer. We generally only mic vocals and kick; The backline is plenty loud on its own, and not to brag, but we're actually quite good at getting balanced stage level.


Bigger gigs, either we contract or the venue contracts sound and lights.

So what about lights? We set four cans on top of each main, which are on speaker stands. They don't flash, and cannot be programmed, but they make us look 100% more real than most other bands playing the same venues.

[franksguitar]

Some clubs have PAs and some you bring your own. Usually you get a band tab for food and drinks allowance or a discount depending on the club, As long as nobody doesn't pull a Blues Brothers routine "You made $200 but drank $600 worth of beer"!

[TommyMambo]

... As long as nobody doesn't pull a Blues Brothers routine "You made $200 but drank $600 worth of beer"!

That actually happened to my old group in the '80's, and we ended up playing the next night just to make up for our bar tab. These days, we're sober!

The downturn in the economy has impacted us greatly. Even before the sh*t hit the fan economically, the number of original music clubs in New England was way down.

[stratzrus]

Our funk/jazz gig tomorrow night is paying $600 for a four piece band. It's this band's first gig and I expect that if we stay together that we should be making between $125-200 per person each night whenever we gig during the course of 2009. If we grow together as a group and put out a marketable CD I would expect that to increase.

It's not a fortune by any standards, but for a group of musicians who have day jobs and don't currently have a record released, I'm not complaining at all and am glad to have the work.

[jimfog]

Our funk/jazz gig tomorrow night is paying $600 for a four piece band. It's this band's first gig and I expect that if we stay together that we should be making between $125-200 per person each night whenever we gig during the course of 2009. If we grow together as a group and put out a marketable CD I would expect that to increase.

It's not a fortune by any standards, but for a group of musicians who have day jobs and don't currently have a record released, I'm not complaining at all and am glad to have the work.

Hey,

Where are you playing? I'm actually off tomorrow.......rare weekend night where I can catch music.

[Lt_Core]

Some clubs have PAs and some you bring your own. Usually you get a band tab for food and drinks allowance or a discount depending on the club, As long as nobody doesn't pull a Blues Brothers routine "You made $200 but drank $600 worth of beer"!

I would say 95% of the time, free beer is in our contracts from our agent. Price of doing business ;)

Good thing is that no one in the band abuses it. You get thirsty playing under those lights...haha!

Even if a club has a PA we still hire professional sound for every show so we know what we're getting from sound quality to lighting cues.

[Dexter.Sinister]

Its about 100 each now. Sometimes plus a bit of bar take. Sometimes plus extra for travel. Sometimes plus hotel accomodation.

For example for upcoming jazz festival its 100 apiece plus room and board at a resort in Keys for a couple days.

DS

[Elmer]

We get $450-500 a night (5 man outfit). No agents taking a cut, we put together a professional media kit ourselves and book all our own gigs. We have our own PA, run our own sound, have our own lights. We all have day jobs, this is a just for fun 1-2 gigs a month deal.

We are very professional - sound check several hours beforehand, show up on time, play a full 3 hours out of a typical 8PM-12AM time slot (4x45 minute sets, 15 minute breaks, period), we don't run up a bar tab, and generally bring our own crowd of co-workers, friends, family, etc. We don't drive more than 30 minutes or so for a gig - and in DFW, that's shorter than a lot of people's commute to work.

We have more places wanting us to play than we can handle, which in this economy is a blessing - but we have worked for every bit of it.

[Guitar Dave T]

We get $450-500 a night (5 man outfit). No agents taking a cut, we put together a professional media kit ourselves and book all our own gigs. We have our own PA, run our own sound, have our own lights. We all have day jobs, this is a just for fun 1-2 gigs a month deal.

We are very professional - sound check several hours beforehand, show up on time, play a full 3 hours out of a typical 8PM-12AM time slot (4x45 minute sets, 15 minute breaks, period), we don't run up a bar tab, and generally bring our own crowd of co-workers, friends, family, etc. We don't drive more than 30 minutes or so for a gig - and in DFW, that's shorter than a lot of people's commute to work.

We have more places wanting us to play than we can handle, which in this economy is a blessing - but we have worked for every bit of it.

Glad to hear someone's pulling down better than average dollars here in DFW for club work. We work in the $400 range, don't run up tabs, show up on time with our own lighting and sound, stay sober, play 3 sets with 2 breaks, the first break being around 25 minutes, the second around 10 in order to retain the late night crowd. Our music is probably less classic rock and more blues, soul and r&b than yours, and we definitely work more the blues-ish clubs (Nate's, The Hole, you know the places). At the end of the day, we're a 4 man band that gets at least $100 a man a night, so we're happy.

BTW, thanks for not selling short in the DFW market.

[Lucidology]

This is a nice-a thread-a ...
We is a sharing what we all-a make-a on a gig-a..

How nice is a that-a ...Capiece ...


http://www.33smiley.com/smiley5/love/8.gif

[DavidE]

The one thing I don't want to deal with anymore is carrying p.a. gear and running sound from the stage. In my many years of experience, there's no substitute for a good sound guy with a good p.a.

Except for acoustic gigs when we use my Bose.

[Guitar Dave T]

The one thing I don't want to deal with anymore is carrying p.a. gear and running sound from the stage. In my many years of experience, there's no substitute for a good sound guy with a good p.a.

Except for acoustic gigs when we use my Bose.

For smaller clubs, I've found the sound-guy/sound system to be a hindrance. It takes up valuable, revenue generating table space, costs the band an extra cut (or often more than a cut), and often adds too much volume when you take already loud enough drums and guitar amps (even lower watt guitar amps) and force them through the mains.

Even if you can isolate the drums and guitar amps, the end result through the mains is often overly produced and discards the organic acoustic interplay between the drums, instruments and room.

Finally, I've done gigs with many musicians who are so used to having their levels 'handled' by the sound guy that they do not have any clue how to achieve a balanced stage level. These gigs never go well, and dynamics, never mind balanced levels, are nonexistant.

For smaller clubs, in my many years experience, there is no substitute for a balanced stage mix.

[stratotonedude]

On weekend gigs in Virginia I put at least $100 in my pocket each night. More for private parties. The Thursday night gig where I am in a band that hosts a jam session I get $67. It is five minutes from my house.

[drgonzoguitar]

In my weekend cover band, we have our own PA. 18" subs, 15"mids, 1" HF Horn in a two way mix (PAS). We have gates for the drums, comp/limiters for the vocals, and separate drum and vocal effect units. It fits nicely into a single rack case (though a heavy one). I run sound from stage, all of our vocal verbs are footswitchable, and our drummer controls the lights. When we split money, there is no cost for PA/soundman plus, setup is less than 45 minutes.

Lt. Core is right---coverband gigging in MN, ND, and WI can be very lucrative. I made really good money when I was living in Fargo (10 years ago).

[DavidE]

Depends on the band and the venue. Wedding band? Rock band? Drums never sound as good just acoustically as they do kicking ass through a good p.a. with the kick drum thumping your chest and the gated reverbs etc...

I've done it all sorts of ways and I know what I prefer.

The band I'm in turns down gigs at clubs that aren't big enough to handle our typical p.a. setups.


For smaller clubs, I've found the sound-guy/sound system to be a hindrance. It takes up valuable, revenue generating table space, costs the band an extra cut (or often more than a cut), and often adds too much volume when you take already loud enough drums and guitar amps (even lower watt guitar amps) and force them through the mains.

Even if you can isolate the drums and guitar amps, the end result through the mains is often overly produced and discards the organic acoustic interplay between the drums, instruments and room.

Finally, I've done gigs with many musicians who are so used to having their levels 'handled' by the sound guy that they do not have any clue how to achieve a balanced stage level. These gigs never go well, and dynamics, never mind balanced levels, are nonexistant.

For smaller clubs, in my many years experience, there is no substitute for a balanced stage mix.

[Guitar Dave T]

Depends on the band and the venue. Wedding band? Rock band? Drums never sound as good just acoustically as they do kicking ass through a good p.a. with the kick drum thumping your chest and the gated reverbs etc...

I've done it all sorts of ways and I know what I prefer.

The band I'm in turns down gigs at clubs that aren't big enough to handle our typical p.a. setups.

We just don't have that many venues that a full remotely mixed FOH wouldn't be overkill. The largest rooms we play get a mic on the kick drum and that's about it.

OTOH, I played 19 years in a private party and we always used a sound man. Of course, we contracted out the whole sound and lights, equipment and all, back then. For an even split on an average $3-$4k night, everyone got their price, and I was out the door with my key in the ignition within a half hour of end of show.

[Lucidology]

We just don't have that many venues that a full remotely mixed FOH wouldn't be overkill. The largest rooms we play get a mic on the kick drum and that's about it.

...

EVen with a lot of venues a full system such as that would be overkill.

One of a funk band's prerequisites in a drummer is a TRULY heavy foot ...
That, in combination with a drummer who knows how to tune his kick drum RIGHT,
or use a really loud kick is all that's needed 9 out of 10 times ...

[Guitar Dave T]

EVen with a lot of venues a full system such as that would be overkill.

One of a funk band's prerequisites in a drummer is a TRULY heavy foot ...
That, in combination with a drummer who knows how to tune his kick drum RIGHT,
or use a really loud kick is all that's needed 9 out of 10 times ...

Exactly my experience. But like knowing how to get a good live backline mix, drummers who can tune are becoming less plentiful.

[jimfog]

Exactly my experience. But like knowing how to get a good live backline mix, drummers who can tune are becoming less plentiful.

One of my drummers (who actually has a great ear.....a studied musician) ALWAYS tunes his drums to the Olympics theme.......it's pretty funny, but effective.

Another guy I played with always tuned to "George of the Jungle".

[Guitar Dave T]

One of my drummers (who actually has a great ear.....a studied musician) ALWAYS tunes his drums to the Olympics theme.......it's pretty funny, but effective.

Another guy I played with always tuned to "George of the Jungle".

One of the better drummers I play with tunes his by ear and gets them spot on each time.

Can a drummer have perfect pitch? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? :Devil

[Scooter]

Weekend four piece cover band, upstate NY. We work every weekend with a few exceptions, averaging 6-7 gigs per month. There are two small clubs that throw us consistent work where we take $450 (nice people, nice beverage/food perks, comfy atmosphere, easy load in/out), but everywhere else we play is $600-800. We'll do three or four private functions a year and we get 1200-1500 for those. We run our own sound from the stage for most gigs (compact system with 18" subs), which we know is not ideal but in most places we play it doesn't matter. A few of the larger clubs we play have house sound (and soundmen that are not very good). The only effect we've seen regarding the current economy is one club canceling bands for the winter (the club is in a town that is very busy in the summer months but so-so in the off season). We haven't been asked to play for less - yet - and we have bookings out to 12/09 right now.

[Dave Orban]

The "we are better then that" will utimately be your band's demise in today's club scene
Yup.

[Bassomatic]

One of my drummers ...

Sure you're not one of his guitar players?

[jimfog]

Sure you're not one of his guitar players?

Positive......I won him in a bet, fair and square.

[Jazzydave]

I didn't have enough time to read all the responses on this but Lucid's first response sums it up.

It all comes down to why you are playing. Also, what type of relationship are you building in your area with the club/venue owners/bookers? In my experience, I usually try to work with them. There was a time when I was easily making $800+/night as a solo acoustic act. Considering I was playing at least 4 nights a week, it wasn't a bad living at all.

On the flipside, I also played a lot of free coffeeshop and other small venue shows. Most of the time it brought in more gigs bc someone would know someone who knew someone who owned such and such place, etc.

When I signed with the label, they were giving me the "you're better than that" speech constantly. They didn't want me playing those small places and they were trying to (IMHO) overcharge for my EP. I asked, "Why would someone pay more for MY CD than they could get a Dave Matthews disc at Target?"

For me, I've found that when you're there to have a good time, enjoy and share your love for music, show up on time, treat those around you with respect, you'll go pretty far in this business. Sure, there are always going to be a few people who suck but that's just life. I walked away from the label bc it didn't fit right with me. Most everyone thought I was crazy but I had to stay true to who I am and what I want to represent.

If you love what you do and don't agree with the others - it sounds like a pow wow is in order.

If you get a chance, pick up this book!!! It'll put a lot into perspective!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-One-Presents-Open-Ears/dp/1575603640/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230109962&sr=8-13

Being that we are in a very tight economical crunch and quite a few of us here are in bands because (duh) we like to play, if I may ask, what kind of money are you guys usually walking out with per gig/per man and have you been asked by club owners to work with them to get through this?

The reason I'm curious is the band I'm in, a couple of the guys are refusing to drop our price because they do not feel its right and we are "better than that". Sorry fellas but I do not agree with that frame of mind in today's economy.

I'm seeing some good, upcoming bands sliding into the clubs we have been playing and noticing that these new bands are hungry and they are also good at what they do.

We all have day jobs and this is extra income but the most resistive person is the one who owns all the P.A. equipment and he gets a cut off the top so hes has very strong feelings of not budging.

So what to do? Are these guys doing the right thing I'm playing with and I'm a complete moron about my stance on this or do you try and work with the clubs?

[soulmap]

Things have changed, no doubt, and just recently.
In general terms, around here, there are two types of live, local gigs;
1) setting up in a corner of a bar or restaurant and going home with $100 per person (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less).
2) Playing for the door.

Type one has dropped off dramatically; duo and solo gigs where there used to be a band, CD player where there used to be a live, solo guitar.
Last year, a new restaurant hired me to play solo guitar every Thursday; 2 hours, $100, good food and good tips…close to home, quick easy gig, played what I want… The owner was respectful – gave my family a discount, nice staff, friends liked the food and the hang. – Great gig!
But it wouldn’t grow past 3-5 tables of folks. I started taking $50 a night…then 30…the owner felt bad about it, but he was hurting – the election, the economy, the fear, whatever the cause – going out for dinner and drinks on a Thursday was a luxury hard to justify, I guess.
So, that gig is gone.

Type two has actually improved…well, sometimes. These are clubs or rooms where the music is the focus; it’s usually late, loud and high energy. People seem quite willing to drop $5 - $10 bucks at the door for the ritual of live music – they need it!
Some nights, I’ll go home with 20 – 30 bucks, but it was fun. Hell, I need “it”, too, ya know? But often, it’s more like $80 - $140 or so.

For me, a fixed price or no play would result in a lot of not playing

[Nick67]

The way things are economically we are willing to come down a bit on the price, where as six months ago we would not have thought of it. Money is money and gigs are gigs, and I like both. I am willing to do what must be done. Gotta roll with the times.

[aeolian]

The higher end resturants and clubs are taking a hit, but the regular joe places seem to be doing the same business as last year. A lot of people are using the excuse of the "bad economy" to squeeze more out of situations. But the overhead is the same, the crowd is the same, and the drinks cost more. So we've been holding firm. After awhile, the clubs have started to come around. Probably took a couple of months, but they see how the 2nd tier bands don't hold their usual crowd. And the few hundred they saved on the band didn't pay off at the end of the night. So now they're calling.

The offers for New Years were insulting so this will be the first year in awhile I'll be home. The couple of folks in the band will pick up casuals that ought to pay decent. Those of us with day jobs will just stay home. Wasn't worth doing some casual. Just as with the regular weekends, they'll come calling next year with more reasonable offers.

[Gas-man]

The key for us is staying a three piece.

That way, $400 aint so bad.

It's a lot of work though--no sprinkling cutsie flourishes here and there--when there's just three of ya.

[soulmap]

sprinkling cutsie flourishes here and there--

hey - that's my forte :o

[oxtone]

One of my regular church gigs recently asked me if I'd take a $20 pay cut per Sunday, until they get "back on their feet". Donations are down due to the recession, and the music dept. had their budget cut a bit.

So, in order to keep the gig, I agreed to work for $140.00 a Sunday, rather than $160, like I've gotten the last two years. Better than nothing, I guess.

[Gas-man]

One of my regular church gigs recently asked me if I'd take a $20 pay cut per Sunday, until they get "back on their feet". Donations are down due to the recession, and the music dept. had their budget cut a bit.

So, in order to keep the gig, I agreed to work for $140.00 a Sunday, rather than $160, like I've gotten the last two years. Better than nothing, I guess.


How long is the gig there Ox?

[johnzias]

I have about the best local gig in Tampa, playing weekly at Skipper's Smokehouse. In 2007, we averaged about $175 per man(6 pc band), per gig. In 2008, it fell to about $120.

Outside of that room, we strive for $100 per man minimum, and usually get that, but we've been doing gigs that go as low as $70 per man this year.

My other band, that plays originals, and features a lot of free-jazz style improv, gets about $75 per man in a good club, and has played for as little as $35 p/m, just to keep things active.

[VaughnC]

With my classic rock/variety trio-band in semi-retirement, we raised our prices a year ago to cut down on the number of bookings and now just skim the cream off the top by focusing mainly on private affairs. If we can't make at least $1500/gig, we just refer people to other bands we know and we play just enough to keep everyone in the band happy.

[arthur rotfeld]

Vaughn, that's $1500 for the trio? I'm guessing that's for 4-5 hours.....nice bread.

[VaughnC]

Vaughn, that's $1500 for the trio? I'm guessing that's for 4-5 hours.....nice bread.

Well, with private affairs, they're usually booked for 4 hours but, by the time they hand out corporate awards and the like or the typical wedding scenario and, with a 15 minute break/hour, we're lucky to actually play for 2 1/2 hours. And anything beyond the contracted booking start/finish times is time and a half (overtime). We run our band just like a business even though it's more of a hobby. I remember one booking last year where we played for some millionaires backyard summer pool party and we actually went home with more overtime money than the gig was actually booked for. Guy had a wad of $100's in his wallet and kept throwing them our way...on top of all the food & drink we could handle. Funny how that happens sometimes ;).

[Guitar Dave T]

Well, with private affairs, they're usually booked for 4 hours but, by the time they hand out corporate awards and the like or the typical wedding scenario and, with a 15 minute break/hour, we're lucky to actually play for 2 1/2 hours. And anything beyond the contracted booking start/finish times is time and a half (overtime). We run our band just like a business even though it's more of a hobby. I remember one booking last year where we played for some millionaires backyard summer pool party and we actually went home with more overtime money than the gig was actually booked for. Guy had a wad of $100's in his wallet and kept throwing them our way...on top of all the food & drink we could handle. Funny how that happens sometimes ;).

Sounds like a band I worked with for 19 years. Do you try and book a once-a-month upscale restaurant gig to give buyers a chance to see you and increase your marketability?

If so, how much do you charge for those?

We did those for about $600 - $650.

[VaughnC]

Sounds like a band I worked with for 19 years. Do you try and book a once-a-month upscale restaurant gig to give buyers a chance to see you and increase your marketability?

If so, how much do you charge for those?

We did those for about $600 - $650.

No, we don't see the need to do any other gigs than private affairs as we're playing enough as is. But, occasionally, if the money is right, we'll play in another State (and get re-exposed;)) and stay in a motel overnight. Most of our exposure comes by word of mouth. Most musicians don't get this...but we pay very close attention to what music the guy on the street wants to hear and try to be entertaining beyond the music as well. We're also very good at keeping the continuity going at these private affairs and people really appreciate that as it takes a burden off of them. Point being that there's more to being successful at a hobby band than just playing the music itself. Then, one gig usually leads to a few others, which leads to others, and we just go with the flow.

Also...we kind of have an inside joke in our band. We've been together about 18 years and we know each other so well that we know when someone is going to make a mistake in a song before they actually make it ;).

[Guitar Dave T]

No, we don't see the need to do any other gigs than private affairs as we're playing enough as is. But, occasionally, if the money is right, we'll play in another State (and get re-exposed;)) and stay in a motel overnight. Most of our exposure comes by word of mouth. Most musicians don't get this...but we pay very close attention to what music the guy on the street wants to hear and try to be entertaining beyond the music as well. We're also very good at keeping the continuity going at these private affairs and people really appreciate that as it takes a burden off of them. Point being that there's more to being successful at a hobby band than just playing the music itself. Then, one gig usually leads to a few others, which leads to others, and we just go with the flow.

Also...we kind of have an inside joke in our band. We've been together about 18 years and we know each other so well that we know when someone is going to make a mistake in a song before they actually make it ;).

Good approach and attitude for a private party band. Echos my experience and sentiment exactly. Would have stayed with the band if the front man didn't have so many issues. Sometimes we wouldn't know which extreme version of his personality was going to show up for a gig.

[VaughnC]

Good approach and attitude for a private party band. Echos my experience and sentiment exactly. Would have stayed with the band if the front man didn't have so many issues. Sometimes we wouldn't know which extreme version of his personality was going to show up for a gig.

Yup, been there, done that with "front" people. The three of us get along pretty well and we try to share the load as much as possible...and there are no "star" attitudes. We're just 3 guys of maybe average musical ability...but I think we sound a little better than the sum of the parts. However, while we keep things pretty simple and try to give 'em what they want to the best of our ability, I think entertaining people is actually more important than the music itself. Our primary goal is to provide "them" with a memorable experience...and it seems to work pretty well for us.

[oxtone]

How long is the gig there Ox?

Gas-man: I've played there for two years, and it's a mid-week rehearsal, plus playing two services on Sunday morning. We play about 30 minutes each service.