Can anyone please help me contact Clay Jones? [Archive]

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waveydb

11-17-2008, 12:58 PM

I accidentally fried my CJOD the other day!!!!:mad:
I'd been on the verge of selling it- decided to use it again on my board before letting it go- I fell back in love with it- decided to keep it.
The next day, while I was plugging it in separately from my board w/ a BOSS 9v adapter to record with- I ACCIDENTALLY picked up the tip of another adapter (that was plugged in out of my sight around the corner) and fried my CJOD by putting 12v through it!!!
I don't know if CJ will be willing to fix it- all I can do is hope and try asking- if I can find a way to contact him. Can anyone out there help?
Sincerely,sheepishly,mournfully,
Dave
waveyd@optonline.net

Mojoman

11-17-2008, 01:08 PM

I feel for you - wish I could be of more help, but I truly hope you can get it fixed.

waveydb

11-17-2008, 08:04 PM

Thanks Mojo. I nearly got sick after I did it.

Patch

11-17-2008, 08:43 PM

Try to contact Bob Burt.
I think they are friends.

http://www.bobburtcabinets.com/contact.html

jfromel

11-18-2008, 02:03 AM

I't most likely the op-amp, is it gooped?

waveydb

11-18-2008, 09:16 AM

Yes- it is gooped....

analogmike

11-18-2008, 09:43 AM

12V wont fry that pedal unless it's 12V AC. Test it with a battery and see if it's ok.

Mastervolume

11-18-2008, 09:53 AM

send it to me I will fix it. :)

waveydb

11-18-2008, 09:57 AM

I just tried it w/ a battery- no luck- it's fried.
It doesn't say on the adapter I accidentally plugged into it- but it must've been 12v AC.
Is there any hope of fixing this pedal?

nibus

11-18-2008, 10:11 AM

I'm sure it's fixable, but you may have to de-goop it in order to replace whatever has fried.

iwantmypie

11-18-2008, 10:15 AM

this here is one of the reasons that gooping is a bad idea, no way to see what could have gone wrong in the circuit with out "devaluing" the product. i still don't see the point of gooping a clone of a clone....or do i....

MotorCityMatamp

11-18-2008, 02:03 PM

:munch

Daeveed

11-18-2008, 02:21 PM

http://op-for.com/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

mfgobbi

11-18-2008, 02:45 PM

The irony is actually really funny. A 1,000 dollar "improved" tube screamer could have a diode to protect the circuit from the wrong polarity.... it's not just bad that it is gooped... it is an overhyped overpriced piece of junk.

whoismarykelly

11-18-2008, 02:59 PM

Try to contact Bob Burt.
I think they are friends.

http://www.bobburtcabinets.com/contact.html

From what I have read they are most certainly not friends in any sense of the word.

jfromel

11-18-2008, 05:43 PM

well without stepping on toes, or trying to expose a secret circuit, or getting into the reasons for or against gooping.

There is little that can go wrong in an overdrive that is based on a screamer, there I said it. Stripped down screamers sound very good but often have stripped down filtering on the power rail as well. It's not going cheap, the reduced filtering can affect the tone in a positive way. Any problem with the power supply and you could fry your op-amp. If the op-amp is of the very good sounding but very sensitive type such as an OPA-2134 it will fry.

My guess is that not only did you plug in a 12v supply it was also center pin positive, that would indeed have a profoundly negative effect on your pedal.

I have a collection started of OPA-2134's that are fried. But this is of course assuming that the CJOD is a screamer type circuit that uses an op-amp that is very sensitive.

It is fixable.

If you get your CJOD back up and running again may I suggest a copper top as your only source of power?

Shiny McShine

11-18-2008, 05:58 PM

Do not send it to anyone who might try to reverse engineer it. Clay has made is stance on this very clear and you will violate the original agreement you made with him. He's fixed another that someone else tried to degoop and sold on eBay. It was quite the scandal.

Patch

11-18-2008, 06:47 PM

From what I have read they are most certainly not friends in any sense of the word.

what did you read about that? (curious)

therhodeo

11-18-2008, 06:56 PM

waveydb

11-18-2008, 08:47 PM

I just checked- yeah, it was center pin positive.
I had been trying to sell the pedal- I started using it again, found a potential buyer- but I decided to keep it because I really do love it. The next day I fried it. I'd had a Boss 9v adapter in my hands that I'd just plugged in- only the tip I grabbed was to a power supply from a hard drive that was plugged in around the corner. It was an accident I wish hadn't happened. I haven't been able to reach Clay Jones. At this point, I'm pretty glum about this mess I made.

allmonochrome

11-18-2008, 08:53 PM

Do not send it to anyone who might try to reverse engineer it.

that would just be a waste of time. already done loooong ago :munch

jfromel

11-19-2008, 03:41 AM

If it's any consolation I don't think your standard 4001 diode across the power rail would have helped in your case.

If it's busted and Clay won't fix it that would just suck, especially if you are willing to pay him for the repair.

If Clay does agree to fix it ask him to only replace the broken parts and keep the original board, components, etc. If Clay uses Germainium Diodes or LED's in the clipping, another board with Ge Diodes or LED's just wont sound the same. Not exactly sure what he uses for that clipping circuit but my guess is RED 5MM LED's for part of it. I won't go into the why but Ge Diodes leak and LED's are designed to illuminate things not provide clipping in an overdrive circuit.

Using LED's as clippers is like making your toast with a 100w lightbulb. That light bulb just may make the best toast ever but it was never designed for that purpose and the makers of the lightbulb are concerned with how many lumens it produces and not so much concerned with how much heat it puts out. So its possible that two 100w lightbulbs put out different amounts of heat and would make inconsistent toasters.

Well get your op-amp swapped and you should be fine, there is a way to do this without de-gooping. Take a new op-amp and dead bug it like in the photo with the legs pointing up and out instead of straight down. Now the pins will match up with the pinout of the dead op-amp from the underneath side, the only thing you will need to be careful of is the location of pin one. Pin one had a dot by it, pin 4 goes to ground and pin 8 is the 9v supply. Solder the new op-amp on the underneath side of the PCB exactly where the fried one is. Since the old op-amp is fried it shouldn't have any effect on the new op-amp.

Rumor has it that the op-amp used in the CJOD is a Burr Brown OPA-2134 like the one in the picture, the one in the picture is also fried so I didn't mind bending up the leads of a $2.50 op amp. Funny this never happens with a $0.50 TL072 from Radio Shack.

Of course this fix will only work if indeed the CJOD is a stripped down screamer clone and the op-amp is fried. However doing this will not make the pedal sound any worse and is easily reversed. I think I have about 50 OPA-2134's here (I use them in my chorus pedal). Send me a PM if you want a couple and I will charge you what I have into them plus a couple bucks for postage.

If it does work you can goop the bottom of the pedal as well for more extra special MOJO.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/jfromel/L1070301.jpg

crosse79

11-19-2008, 04:22 AM

Zelja

11-19-2008, 07:56 PM

Well get your op-amp swapped and you should be fine, there is a way to do this without de-gooping. Take a new op-amp and dead bug it like in the photo with the legs pointing up and out instead of straight down. Now the pins will match up with the pinout of the dead op-amp from the underneath side, the only thing you will need to be careful of is the location of pin one. Pin one had a dot by it, pin 4 goes to ground and pin 8 is the 9v supply. Solder the new op-amp on the underneath side of the PCB exactly where the fried one is. Since the old op-amp is fried it shouldn't have any effect on the new op-amp.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/jfromel/L1070301.jpg

Wouldn't the pin outs be mirror imaged this way i.e. pin 1 to pin 5, Pin 2 to 7, 3 to 6, 4 to 5? None of the pins will match to the circuit :worried

allmonochrome

11-19-2008, 08:21 PM

Wouldn't the pin outs be mirror imaged this way i.e. pin 1 to pin 5, Pin 2 to 7, 3 to 6, 4 to 5? None of the pins will match to the circuit :worried

no, that's the whole point of bending the leads up.

Curly

11-19-2008, 09:20 PM

I believe Clay has fixed at least one of these that had problems. For no cost, BTW.

Zelja

11-19-2008, 10:56 PM

no, that's the whole point of bending the leads up.

Yep, I can see now that that's not the bottom of the chip but the top. Clever!

BMF Effects

11-20-2008, 08:00 AM

Clay Jones dropped out of sight about a year ago. I don't know that you'll see him again anytime soon. Maybe (hopefully) he'll see this thread and contact you.

Uma Floresta

11-20-2008, 09:59 AM

jfromel

11-20-2008, 10:47 AM

Yep, I can see now that that's not the bottom of the chip but the top. Clever!

If you wanted to get real fancy you could use a very small piece of double sided grey foam tape (not because grey has more mojo, it sticks better) to hold the new chip firmly in place before soldering, might even be able to verify that this is the problem with a TL072 from Radio Shack before commiting solder to it.

Structo

11-20-2008, 10:53 AM

So this chip is not socketed in the circuit board?

Not sure if it can be de-gooped.
He probably would have to put a new board in there.

BrianWampler

11-20-2008, 11:55 AM

Not sure if anyone knows or not, but the CJOD was already reversed and confirmed... the circuit is the exact same as the landgraff. Read allll about it at fs.org
bw

sockeye

11-20-2008, 12:08 PM

Here's a schematic of the Son of Screamer, I mean GrandLaff, I mean Landgraff that Clay Jones supposedly drew. My understanding is that the CJOD is exactly the same except that he used 5mm red LEDs instead of 3mm in the GrandLaff. That's all based on hearsay though.

http://www.nzguitars.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3042&sid=e9ec01311d7dd1172111e8f2e411c410

Mightn't the problem be in the votage dividing circuit shown at upper-right rather than in the op-amp? If that 1N914 were fried by 12V of reverse voltage, I would think the pedal would still work, but how about those 2 polarized caps? If they got fried I don't think you'd be supplying the right Vref to the rest of the circuit.

That 10uF polarized cap near the output could have been fried too. That would put the pedal into Helen Keller mode for sure.

But I really don't know a whole lot about this stuff, so take all that with a large grain of germanium.

BJF

11-20-2008, 02:41 PM

Hi,

Simply addressing a possibly fried reverse diode draped across powerline with no series current limiting resistor.
If such a diode would be a signal type like 1N4148, it would blow when reversed and it would go into shortcircuit protecting the rest of the circuit but the circuit would ofcourse be dead.

It would be easy to resistans measure the battery terminals with battery removed butground through minus terminal on inputjack connected, so that the actual resistans can be measured-if this resistans is lower than 100 Ohms there's a short in the internal powersupply as in such a diode as above shortcircuited.

I would be quite sure that Clay would fix this pedal regardless of what has fried in it.
Unfortunately I do not know how to get in touch with him these days.

Be well
BJ

Affiliations
BJF electronics
Sweden
www.bjfe.org (http://www.bjfe.org)
www.mpamp.com (http://www.mpamp.com)
www.louderandmore.com (http://www.louderandmore.com)

BMF Effects

11-20-2008, 02:45 PM

I think part of the OP's problem may be that the part(s) are inaccessible. If I remember correctly, the CJOD is epoxied from wall to wall.

jfromel

11-21-2008, 03:12 AM

If indeed the above schem was drawn by Clay (which I doub't) I can't see any good reason to put a 1n914 across the Power Supply, it would basically be using a 1n914 as a DC Fuse. But a lot of builders have chimed in here that all know more than me so perhaps I am missing something.

If Clay did use a 1n914 across the rail, when reverse voltage was applied it would simply heat up until it released its magic smoke then no longer work. I just tried this with a 914 and a Boss PSA120T, only took about 6 seconds to release the magic smoke. The diode would is burnt, not shorted, and would leave the circuit intact but no longer offer the little protection a small signal diode could offer on a 9v rail.

But like I said BJF, BMF, and Indy all know more than me and perhaps I am missing something.

I really just want to help this guy get his OD making OD, but the discussion of the circuit has been good, perhaps we will all learn something

sockeye

11-21-2008, 06:14 AM

I don't know how predictable blown diodes are, but I think I have read that in this scenario, they short at first, and if power is maintained, the short will then blow open.

Interestingly, last night I traced a BBE Green Screamer, and it has a diode in the exact same spot. It's a black one, and I'm guessing it's a 1N4001.

Jack Orman's Son of Screamer design also has a 914 in this spot:

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/underground/8475/schematics/backup/scream.gif

If these diodes don't blow short, then I have no idea what they are doing there. If they had a resistor in series, I would get it, it would just act as a high-impedence short if polarity were reversed. But without a resistor the idea must be that it acts as a fuse, and if it blows open it defeats the purpose.

sockeye

11-21-2008, 06:41 AM

Oh...just thought of another reason for this diode...for protection if an AC power supply is connected (rectification). That probably makes more sense, huh? I don't think 9-12V AC would present enough continuous reverse voltage to blow the diode, but it would be there to protect the rest of the circuit.

Back to the matter at hand: if it blew, would it always blow open or might it sometimes blow shut?

This is all a very good argument against gooping circuits, particularly when the builder may be hard to reach in the future.

Marz

11-21-2008, 06:57 AM

A properly rated surface mount chip fuse inline with power used in conjunction with the diode would provide better reverse voltage protection. Also, the fuse could be left out of the goop!

:JAM

analogmike

11-21-2008, 07:40 AM

Bjorn and others are right, the small diode will turn into a short circuit. Many pedals are built like that, including tube screamers, we often have to fix that problem.

Do the continuity test across the battery termininals or power jack from 9V to ground and if shorted out, the diode is dead. If you can scrape away enough goop near the power jack or where the power wires go into the board you will find the diode and can simply cut it in half, or cut one end off. it will work fine without it.

Good luck!

jpagey

11-21-2008, 10:14 AM

"Confirmed schematic" is one of the phrases that is too loosely thrown around here.

Unless it a verified, bonded, insured, authentic, affidavit, licensed, approved, corroborated, certified and sworn schematic by an electrical engineer and subject to cross-examination, it ISN'T "confirmed".

jfromel

11-21-2008, 11:03 AM

ok so now that the can has been opened and we are still trying to fix a CJOD, why use a 1n914 when a 1n4001 would offer better protection of the circuit? I don't really want to run a test of 1n914's to see how many short vs how many blow open when neg voltage is applied but the one on my desk blew open which would have the same effect as removing the diode from the circuit.

Perhaps this is a questio for another thread but I have to ask, why not just reguate the rail with a 7809?

BJF

11-21-2008, 05:46 PM

Hi,

If a diode would instead be connected in series with supply line it will survive and current will be limited.
One could argue there's a slight voltage loss but one can choose diodes that have low forward voltage...powerdiodes or schottcy's orgermanium diodes come to mind.

A regulator would be most fine only standard types require about 3V's higher voltage at input for them to work properly while there are of course low drop regulators while thos generally are sensitive to voltage at input, at laest in the first generation and later generations can take more voltage but may be bigger, even so a regulator needs protection and would fuse if forced to work backwards.
It's a hard nut to crack wether battery operation should be valid or if unit should be internally regulated

Indeed it would take only a few seconds before smoke with a parallel diode without currentlimiting and it can be easily removed most likely.
Yes I have replaced several on BOSS and Ibanez and the like pedals and circuit has survived but diode gone in short. I would imagine analog Mike has replaced a substansial amount ......
It would be possible that some signaldiodes also would blow into open circuit....always fun experiment if you happen to be into firecrackers.
Educational too as then groups can be formed of open and short and one type choosen for desired protection.......

Yes one could arguee why goop something that would break easily and predictably?
I would be sure there would be reasons though......

Have fun
BJ

Affiliations
BJF Electronics
Sweden
www.bjfe.org
www.mpamp.com
www.louderandmore.com

John Hurtt

11-21-2008, 06:29 PM

http://op-for.com/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

Nice, I hope you feel the same when a piece of your gear goes belly up...:nono

John Hurtt

11-21-2008, 06:31 PM

.... it's not just bad that it is gooped... it is an overhyped overpriced piece of junk.

The CJOD is a pretty cool pedal that was built and sold by Clay for a fraction of what it sells for now. But, posts like yours are part of the reason that Clay didn't build any others.

John Hurtt

11-21-2008, 06:32 PM

From what I have read they are most certainly not friends in any sense of the word.

I believe that this is correct and had a falling out. But, things might have changed over the past year.

John Hurtt

11-21-2008, 06:34 PM

that would just be a waste of time. already done loooong ago :munch

While this might be the case, I've played through two different "confirmed clones" and they didn't sound the same.

landru64

11-21-2008, 06:36 PM

i loved my cjod sound wise, but even at the original price, i object to a gooped pedal. if the maker gets hit by a bus, i'm out of luck. it's the wrong way to do business, imho.

p.s. i got one alleged clone and it wasn't anything the same as the cjod. not saying there is any magic to the cjod, but something wasn't right.

John Hurtt

11-21-2008, 06:37 PM

landru64

11-21-2008, 06:40 PM

It seems to be more and more common to do this. Who was the first that gooped his circuit....Mike Fuller?

i think i can remember gooping going further back than mike fuller (other electronic categories) but in any case, i sold all my fulltone stuff except one item .... but only because fulltone was so rude and unresponsive. goop didn't play in that decision :)

analogmike

11-21-2008, 06:54 PM

goop master : ampeg scrambler, paperweight if any problems

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/close%20shots/ampeg-scrambler-inside.jpg

ibobunot

11-21-2008, 07:15 PM

They should make a movie out of "The Goose, the Middleman, the Idolmaker and Gomer Pyle (written by CS Jones) that would be epic.

... :cool:

dick wiewy

11-21-2008, 07:48 PM

They should make a movie out of "The Goose, the Middleman, the Idolmaker and Gomer Pyle (written by CS Jones) that would be epic.

... :cool:

It's classical Mythology isn't it? The origin of the phrase "sour grapes".

To the original poster, if you haven't already started, begin picking at the Goop with small, sharp tools in the area of the IC chip. After exposing all 8 legs, desolder said chip, replace with an 8 pin socket, then insert Clay's "happy accident", the Burr-Brown OPA2134. The poster who mentioned a reversed polarity protection diode gets a treat in his stocking this Xmas!

Put a 1N914 [or any 1N400x diode, part # is immaterial] immediately after the only 100uf cap where the DC entrance occurs. (Anode to Earthed connections i.e. band around diode goes to the +DC voltage!)

Have fun with FX,

DW