Tips for learning the fretboard?

[GAD]

I'm one of those guys that can play just about anything if I set my mind to it, but my theory is weak and my knowledge of the fretboard is worse. I've played for 30 years, mostly self-taught. I can play by ear, can read tabs, and can read music. I can only really apply music to the first four frets on the guitar though. I learned to read music playing band instruments where the idea of one note being possible in multiple positions is simply impossible.

I'm taking lessons for the theory which is great, but it (of course) relies on knowledge of the fretboard when applied to the guitar.

I view the fretboard as seen from the E-strings. As a kid I learned two barre-chords - E-shape and A-shape, so I also know the A-string pretty well. I've since learned a lot more technique and chords, but my fretboard knowledge is lacking, which I find to be very limiting.

Problem is, I can view the E-string instinctively, but the rest of the fretboard requires conscious thought. I want to know the whole fretboard without thinking about it.

I've tried lots of my own ideas. I know that the D-string matches the low E-string only two frets higher. I know the G-String matches the A-string the same way. This still requires thinking though - I don't immediately know that an F# is where it is on the D-string.

Any tips to help this old dog learn what I should have learned 30 years ago?

GAD

[nondeplume]

I learned the fretboard via sightreading, in all positions, with a metronome (in time), Berklee made me do this, no choice, wanna pass, play a piece in any position asked, otherwise, I'd be in your boat, looking for a paddle...start slow with the metronome, of course....it is there, in part, to aid in 'forcing' the issue on your brain.

...On the bright side, after the 12th fret you should be gold...so really, it's only half as daunting as it seems.

now someone might come along with any 'easier' way....but this worked for me....since you already 'know' notes on a staff....just apply them to the guitar (physically)....then, as your falling asleep at night, driving the car, trying to abstain from premature ejaculation :p ....reapply them (mentally)......after awhile, becomes a part of the....just is...shrug.

also, if you start to 'memorize' the piece, move on, muscle memory is quick...change positions, change the tune, play the tune only on one string, on two, on three etc...just don't let your fingers do the walking, the brain has to be apart of the dance....for awhile.

[lagomorphian]

http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior//fretboard/fretboard.html

I found I need to turn the sound off, otherwise I'm using my ears to "cheat."

[FirstBassman]

I have a very easy way to learn the fretboard.
It had to be easy, because I am not the brightest guy on the planet.

I keep planning to do an instructional video for YouTube but I never get around to it.

[Cap'n Fingers]

I think the one string at a time approach is good. You've got a handle on
the Es and A. Memorize the notes on each of the other strings one string
at a time. Honestly I've got a handle on the Es, A and B much more so
than the D & G. I think mainly that's because my runs tend to start and
end on those strings more often. Not to mention chord root orientation is
mostly to those strings for me.

[daddyo]

Find the Es on every string from fret 1 - 11. That should be easy as the outside open strings are both Es. Then go up 1 fret and you have the Fs. Add 2 frets and you have the Gs. Play that little 3 note fragment all over the plce EFG EFG. Do the same with CD (1 open string). Then AB (2 open strings). The accidentals fall between. Ecerytyhing repeats at the 12th fret. Just like learning the times table.

[diego]

Learn the note names. Follow the cycle of fifths (C G D A E B F#/Gb C#/Db Ab Eb Bb F). Play all the "C" notes, on strings 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and back, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. For "C" you would play frets 8, 3, 10, 5, 1, and 8, and then back. Work between the first and twelfth frets. Notice that to play a unison between strings and moving up the strings, you move down five frets except between strings three and four you move down four rets (just like the tuning!) (string 6: fret 8, string five: fret 3... 8 - 5 = 3), to play an octave, you move up seven frets, except between strings three and two you move up eight frets.

[lhallam]

Memorize these rules.

Rule #1

Notes go:
A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A..etc

Look at this keyboard:
http://www.smu.edu/totw/keybrd2.gif

There is a pattern of three black keys, two adjacent white keys, two black keys, then two adjacent white keys.

The note "A", is the first adjacent white key to the left of the last of the three black keys.

Going from left to right playing only the white keys they go A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A.

When you play a white key and then an adjacent black key, that sound is termed a minor second AKA one half step. For example play "A" and then the next black key to the right you get "A#" AKA "Bb".

Now notice that there is no black key between B and C and no black key between E and F.

That is because playing a B and then a C the sound is one half step. The same applies for E to F.

Rule #2

From B to C = one half step AKA minor 2nd
From E to F = one half step AKA minor 2nd
All the rest are whole steps AKA Major 2nd.

In other words, play an A and then a B the sound is one whole step,

B to C = 1/2 step or minor 2nd
C-D = whole step or Major 2nd
D-E = whole step or Major 2nd
E-F = 1/2 step or minor 2nd
F-G = whole step or Major 2nd
G-A = whole step or Major 2nd.

Rule #3

Each fret on the guitar equals one half step.

Two frets on the guitar equals one whole step.

That's it. Based on these rules you can figure out every note on the guitar.
So starting on the low E string (6th string) play an E, then put your finger on the first fret. That note is an F. (E to F = one 1/2 step or 1 fret). Put your finger on the third fret to play a G (F to G = one whole step or two frets).

Here's your homework.

Starting on the 6th string, play open and name the note OUT LOUD.

Then play an F, name the note OUT LOUD.

Keep going up the neck playing each natural note (ie. No sharps or flats) until you get the to the 12th fret which is E an octave higher from the open string and name each note out loud.

Now go BACK DOWN the neck and play & name each natural note out loud until you get to open E.

E = open
F = 1st fret
G = 3rd fret
A = 5th fret
B = 7th fret
C = 8th fret
D = 10th fret
E = 12th fret

Do this everyday and within a week or so, you should have it down. Now to find sharps, just go up one fret from the natural note. ex F# = 2nd fret.

To find the flats go down one fret from the natural note. ex. Ab = 4th fret

Once you get the E string down, start on the next string (5th open A). Figure out the notes using the above rules. My serious students got the whole gtr down in about 5 weeks (one string a week). Once you learn E, you've got the 1st string.

Note that the pattern repeats from the 12th up to the 21st or 22nd fret. So once you memorize up to the 12th, you've got the rest.

[Redhouse-Blues]

How I learned was with a note relay, I take one note like the A note and find it on each string, then I turn on the metronome and keep playing the notes in time by jumping around from one to the next. Spend 10 mins a day doing a different note and in a short time you'll have them all down.

[Ooogie]

It doesn't hurt to use all the techniques described, at least give them a try and hopefully one or two of them will really work for you. Before you know it you'll start visualizing the notes on the fretboard.

Here are a couple of things I've used to make it easier and keep it fresh...

-Pick a note and find it everywhere on the fretboard, work from the first fret down. Just spend a few minutes doing this every time you pick up the guitar for awhile, pick different notes and you'll start to see the patterns of where the notes fall in relation to each other.

-When you're playing start thinking about how the chords you're using are built, why are you putting your fingers in those positions? Which string is the 3rd? The 5th? The 7th, 9th, etc depending on what chord you're playing. Do the same thing in all the chord positions you know for that chord on the neck. Can you find some new ones?

-When soloing start to think about what notes you're playing in the licks you always use rather than the patterns. Why do they sound good in a particular key? Make a conscious effort to start and end your solos on the root so you have to be thinking about where the root is all the time. Then move on to a different interval and do the same thing. Maybe make it a point to start every chord change in a progression on that chord's 3rd or flat-7.

Just think up exercises that make you find notes, composing solos is a great way to do it...

Mark

[90wreck]

Learn the "Box system"
5 boxes to memorize and you will able to play over ANY changes by shifting the right box over the chord type.
Nuff said...Simple and will you will be up and running in no time flat.
Do a search.
Best kept secret amongst experienced players.
Most are reluctant to teach it as it spills everything in terms of theory and what notes to play in a very short period of time.
LEARN THE 5 BOXES!(and what type of chords that are associated to each box.)
Also...The boxes are progressive..they connect to one another.
Once you have them down...Your world will open up.
Good luck and have fun.

[todd richman]

90, do you mean the 5 pentatonic boxes? That is a great way to experiment. You can also get a bit moreoutside by applying a box position over a chord that doesn't normally go with that box-a modal appraoch in some ways. Are there any links to more advanced 5 box system playing?

[Catoogie]

I think the best way is for you to put in the time. No easy way really, just start doing it. Go back to when you were a kid and plot it out that way. Write the notes down if you need to. You should probably know the order of notes by now so..........you say you know the E and A strings right? Well if you play A on the E string, where's the octave on the D string? 7th fret. Two steps down (5th fret) is what? G. Where is the octave of the D on the A string 5th fret? G string 7th fret. Two half steps down, F. It all slowly unfolds.

You gotta put in the time. It's hard work but extremely enjoyable and rewarding once it all comes together.

[90wreck]

90, do you mean the 5 pentatonic boxes? That is a great way to experiment. You can also get a bit moreoutside by applying a box position over a chord that doesn't normally go with that box-a modal appraoch in some ways. Are there any links to more advanced 5 box system playing?
Yup.
There are 2 versions.
The 5 box penatonic and the 5 box with all the inside notes.
Learn the one with the inside notes and you can switch from either(Jazz/country to a straight pentatonic rock scale boxes)
Plus it is just fun to learn them and easy.(I did it YEARS ago)
You are right, switch the normal box for aanother to see how outside you can get.
Remember, the boxes are for visual/ear type playing.
Learn 1-5 and just shift them up and down the neck.

[GAD]

I don't think I explained myself well judging by many of the responses. The responses are all awesome and I deeply thank you all for taking the time to respond. This is a tough problem, and I've gone through more than a few teachers who can't seem to understand how I can know so much, play as well as I do, and have little idea about notes on the fretboard. Like I've said elsewhere though, most of the teachers I've met are used to teaching kids who don't practice Red River Valley.

I know the space between notes. I know there's no accidentals between E/F and B/C. I know how music fundamentlly works. I know what a minor third is and I even know why it's called a minor third. I know how chords are built, and I know how a piano is laid out and why. I even understand how a guitar is laid out and why.

I can figure out any note on the fretboard. I don't want to have to figure it out though. I know all the patterns. Hell I even made this while studying:

http://www.gad.net/GAD/Guitar/NotePattern600.gif

I think the best advice I've seen so far is sitting down every day, picking a note and naming them all out loud over and over for xx minutes, then next day pick a different note. I like the idea of playing a song in any position too. I think that would be a huge help and fits with the way my brain works.

GAD

[harryjmic]

Learning the fretboard is the first thing I teach my students. It's like driving without knowing where the destination is going to be.

Learn the chromatic scale and apply it to every string. Start with the low E, once you get that add the A string. These should be easy because a lot of guitar chords have the bass on one of these two strings.

Once you get this add all the others, one by one until you have all of them.

[Cap'n Fingers]

Learn the "Box system"

But don't forget to think outside the box. ;)

[Drew W]

I can relate to your problem. Like you, I have the low E and the A string memorized (as well as the high E). Then I use an octave off the low E for the D string and an octave off the A for the G--but I really need to learn those without having to look at the octave. I also need to memorize the B string.

[MGT]

I was in the same mindset that you were a few years ago and then started learning a little jazz, chord theory, etc.

Given that I only knew the E and A strings well (hey, that's half of them!), I memorized the notes at the fifth fret and then 8th fret...this gave me a couple more reference points when trying to identify notes on the fretboard. Shortly after that, I added a couple more reference frets (notes across a particular fret). After spending a lot of time mapping chord shapes and inversions onto the neck, it started coming together.

Good luck!

[rwe333]

Lotsa good advice above...
Also learn a couple of good major and natural minor scale positions - these (of course) link together by relative minor association.
You'll be able to map-out the fretboard in a range of keys - then begin to visualize the fretboard horizontally and not just vertically by box position...

[rwe333]

Best kept secret amongst experienced players.
Most are reluctant to teach it as it spills everything in terms of theory and what notes to play in a very short period of time.

Secret? It's the oft-discussed and oft-taught CAGED system.
A good resource indeed for mapping out the 'board.
That said, there's fingerings/orientations beyond five positions and knowing five positions doesn't necessarily translate into knowing the fretboard, IMHO.

[Anthony M]

This thread is hurting my head. :confused:

[diego]

Practicing chords and their inversions in all keys, and scales in all keys help, esp. if you find them by knowing where the roots are. You could also practice major scales along the strings. Lots of ways to do this... you could practice the scales in three-note sequence... for example, C major on the top string.... efg, fga, gab, abc, etc. paying special attention to where the root of the scale is, and where the new sharp or flat is from the last key you played.

[angus99]

Another option is a book devoted to the subject. Barrett Tagliarino's "Guitar Fretboard Workbook" is both a fine primer on the subject and a useful tool for people like me who can play a little, but never really memorized the board. He uses a very structured approach and, if you learn well that way, it really works.

angus

[slyzspyz]

For me, when I was about 16 I used to practice scales, 3 notes per string (every string, not traditional fixed postions where one string has two notes) in every key in every position, saying the note name out loud. If you do this for Major scales, not counting octave repeats, there would be 7 positions, 12 keys (well, 15 really if you are thorough with enharmonics F#/Gb etc) = 84 scales, and a sore forearm. Please do not mistake these for 'modes' (aarrrggh the most misused term by guitar players) - you are playing the whole neck in one key. Then pick other scales eg Jazz minor, Wholetone etc
Then practice patterns or intervals etc, but saying the name of the note can be the trick to giving a particular fret an identity.
Bear in mind this is not crucial to playing well, I just happened to find it helpful at the time. I probably did this only 3 or 4 times to the extent I described, but I know my fretboard inside out. The result for me is I don't need to think shapes or positions - the notes are just 'there' and it doesn't matter what finger you start on, you can get to any other note on any string because it is also just 'there'. Doesn't hurt to know theory and be able to read well either.
Guitar is dualistic sometimes, it helps to think patterns/intervals/function as well as 'note names' at other times.
I also think all musicians should understand keyboard; try visualising the guitar as 6 pianos laid next to each other at staggered distances apart.

[slyzspyz]

May I also add that this approach, if you explore it, frees you up from 'chord shapes'; you can create 'harmony' the same way a piano player can. Just play the notes you want (obviously it is hard work, but the fundamentals of this way of thinking are so simple)
Having said that I would recommend the traditional approaches as well, the Will Leavitt Modern Method books are great for getting down to it

[Drew W]

http://www.download.com/Fretboard-Warrior/3000-2133_4-10169003.html

Awesome! I played several times and I noticed my score was directly related to how many notes on the B string came up.

[shaneygoo]

guitar grimoire

[harryjmic]

This thread boggles my mind, how can learning the notes on the guitar be such impossible task?

I would imagine most people know how to navigate around their neighborhood, and most of you probably know the streets and landmarks in order to know where your going.

Learning the neck is no different, you don't need fancy methods or systems, all you need to do is know the chromatic scale and start learning one string at a time.

[eBay]

I think another trick could be helpful...

Memorize this pattern: 1 4 7 b3 5 1

It's the intervals if you bar across any fret starting on the 6th string.

Then this one: 5 1 4 7 2 5

Now when you're playing, if you know either the note on the 6th string or the 5th string, you know what interval the note across from it is.

-courtesy of Jim Scollard, Spokane Washington