Event TR8 speakers - Crap?!?

[jzucker]

Event TR8 speakers - Crap?!?

Just bought a pair of Event TR-8 speakers. They don't seem to be able to handle loud guitar content at all. Fizz out and distort. I guess they'll go back to guitar center.

I tried to sort through the muck in the other monitor thread. Is there a decent (new) pair of powered monitors at that price point? I liked the sound of the 20/20 monitors in the store but they were $500 more.

[LSchefman]

Are you sure it's not the preamp you're running the guitar into that's distorting?

Of course, monitors can't handle gig level guitars, but it's really odd for even the worst monitors to distort merely reproducing a track, or while monitoring during tracking. I doubt the monitors are doing the distortion, based on what I've read about them. I'll bet it's your input levels that are just a little too hot.

Try a pair of headphones while you record the guitar at the same levels, and see if they distort, too. If so, you have your input levels set too high on your console.

PS - any more of these questions, and I'm gonna have to write a book and call it "Sheets of Schefman..."

[jzucker]

Originally posted by LSchefman
Are you sure it's not the preamp you're running the guitar into that's distorting?

Of course, monitors can't handle gig level guitars, but it's really odd for even the worst monitors to distort merely reproducing a track, or while monitoring during tracking. I doubt the monitors are doing the distortion, based on what I've read about them. I'll bet it's your input levels that are just a little too hot.

Try a pair of headphones while you record the guitar at the same levels, and see if they distort, too. If so, you have your input levels set too high on your console.

PS - any more of these questions, and I'm gonna have to write a book and call it "Sheets of Schefman..."

I already tested with headphones. Clean as a whistle. I'm not playing back at gig volumes by the way. Loud but not anywhere near as loud as I'd play on a gig. This is jazz stuff too, not rock or fusion so it's all clean sounds...

[MichaelK]

Hard to say... I don't know what you mean by "loud." They're meant to monitor recordings, not amplify a guitar.

But I agree with Les, it sounds like you haven't ruled out that the overload could be at a different gain stage.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by MichaelK
Hard to say... I don't know what you mean by "loud." They're meant to monitor recordings, not amplify a guitar.

But I agree with Les, it sounds like you haven't ruled out that the overload could be at a different gain stage.

If it doesn't distort with headphones plugged into the mixer (preamp) it's almost certainly the speakers.

[Scott Peterson]

Do you have any other pair - even cheapie powered computer speakers - to plug in to at least double check?

I was under the impression the TR8's were the newer Events? A buddy of mine runs the older Events VERY loud (he does lots of dance music) and they can get very loud with no distortion.

Wierd.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by Scott Peterson
Do you have any other pair - even cheapie powered computer speakers - to plug in to at least double check?

I was under the impression the TR8's were the newer Events? A buddy of mine runs the older Events VERY loud (he does lots of dance music) and they can get very loud with no distortion.

Wierd.

I don't have another set of speakers I feel like carting down to the basement to compare them with but to me, the headphone test tells me it's not the preamp or other component distorting.

To test, play the following clip loud on your monitors:

www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/alight.mp3

The first 10-12 seconds distort badly on the events.

I posted this in the cakewalk forum and several folks with event speakers confirmed that this mp3 distorts with their event speakers but several other folks were getting clean results. The conclusion was that the particular midrange frequencies accentuated by my solo guitar with flatwounds happens to bring out a resonant frequency buzz in the cabinets of the events. One guy with a pair of 20/20 speakers found the same issue. The buzzing also does not corrospond to the peaks in the wave. I think it is a mechanical bug in the design of these speakers.

What do you guys think of KRK speakers?

And also, I put on a Chick Corea electric band CD and blasted it 25% louder than what I could get this clip up to. Absolutely clean on the Chick Corea CD. It's a resonant frequency issue.

[jzucker]

A followup...I plugged in a pair of Mackie HR-624 speakers. Absolutely no distortion or buzzing, plus they sound a helluva lot better.

I guess you actually do get what you pay for :D

[LSchefman]

>>A followup...I plugged in a pair of Mackie HR-624 speakers. Absolutely no distortion or buzzing, plus they sound a helluva lot better.

I guess you actually do get what you pay for<<

Well, the headphone test showed the result, I knew it would.

Glad the Mackie 624s worked for you. They are really good monitors, and worth the few extra dollars, because you can trust your mixes on them.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by LSchefman
>>A followup...I plugged in a pair of Mackie HR-624 speakers. Absolutely no distortion or buzzing, plus they sound a helluva lot better.

I guess you actually do get what you pay for<<

Well, the headphone test showed the result, I knew it would.

Glad the Mackie 624s worked for you. They are really good monitors, and worth the few extra dollars, because you can trust your mixes on them.

Yeah, as a long term investment it's worth the dough. They are more transparent than the Event TR8 speakers. Originally, I auditioned the Event 20/20, the TR8, and the 824. I thought the 20/20 sounded more transparent. The 824 sounded thick in the lower mids. The 624s seem to be nice and transparent. Someday I'll add a sub-woofer, I guess...

[MichaelK]

Glad the 624s are working out - but I thought I should mention that there seem to be several audible digital overs in your clip. The level is pretty hot, so overs are not surprising.

Pretty piece, by the way! :)

[jzucker]

Originally posted by MichaelK
Glad the 624s are working out - but I thought I should mention that there seem to be several audible digital overs in your clip. I listened to about a minute or so, and they are there.

Pretty piece, by the way.

The buzzing was in the intro. I don't think there are any overs in the intro. Where were the overs? That clip was recorded at -6db and then I used cakewalk's normalize function before rendering it to mp3 so there's either a bug in the normalize or the the mp3 rendering. The buzzing on the event speakers happened even on the original -6 db track so it definitely wasn't distortion at that level...

[MichaelK]

The speaker problem seems to be solved, so I wasn't referring back to that.

What I'm talking about sounded like occaisonal digital crackle, not buzzing. I only listened for about 45 seconds or so, but I heard it a few times.

Does the normalize function have a hard limit at, say -.5 dB? Did you insert any processing after normalizing, like EQ or compression? It's also possible that it occured at the A/D stage as you were tracking, or when using any internal digital processing.

I can't be much help troubleshooting it, but I definitely heard something... but it's not impossible that I'm wrong about it being overs.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by MichaelK
The speaker problem seems to be solved, so I wasn't referring back to that.

What I'm talking about sounded like occaisonal digital crackle, not buzzing. I only listened for about 45 seconds or so, but I heard it a few times.

Does the normalize function have a hard limit at, say -.5 dB? Did you insert any processing after normalizing, like EQ or compression? It's also possible that it occured at the A/D stage as you were tracking, or when using any internal digital processing.

I can't be much help troubleshooting it, but I definitely heard something... but it's not impossible that I'm wrong about it being overs.

I don't know the hard limit of the normalize function in sonar. I wish it gave you the option of the upper limit. I always normalize at the end of everything.

The digital noise may have been an artifact of the mp3 rendering.

[LSchefman]

Don't normalize.

Really. It screws up your sound. It's not good, unless you have an intractably low-level recording.

[GaryNattrass]

Its worth checking what the input sensitivity is:

Most Pro gear operates at a nominal level of +4bd's where semi pro gear operates at a nominal level of -10db's.

I had the same problem recently when I was trying to use my LA audio compressor with Pro Tools Digi 002 which operates at +4db.

The input to the LA audio compressor was just too hot as is is set up for -10db operation and all I got was distortion.

A lot of gear comes with dual settings so check that too.

[jzucker]

Originally posted by GaryNattrass
Its worth checking what the input sensitivity is:

Most Pro gear operates at a nominal level of +4bd's where semi pro gear operates at a nominal level of -10db's.

I had the same problem recently when I was trying to use my LA audio compressor with Pro Tools Digi 002 which operates at +4db.

The input to the LA audio compressor was just too hot as is is set up for -10db operation and all I got was distortion.

A lot of gear comes with dual settings so check that too.

My Mackie allows me to switch between -10db and +4. At one setting there was no signal to the speakers. I varied the input sensitivity pot on the speakers to see if an extra hot load made a diff. It did not.

[GaryNattrass]

Ah well at least you can rule that one out.

Maybe the mackie monitors are a better match for your desk, I've heard lots of good reports about them.

[jzucker]

yeah, it's like an addiction. For $300 more I can get the 824s... :D

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by jzucker
yeah, it's like an addiction. For $300 more I can get the 824s... :D
The 824s feel different to work with, IMO. I find them a bit harder on the ears after a while, but that's just me.

If I had the bucks right now to spare for these KRK E8Ts (http://www.krksys.com/v3/expose_e8t.asp) (retail about $5K for a pair) I'd be thinking about them. To my ears they're like the Mackie approach done to the nth degree. You need a lot of desk space though, they have a big footprint.

[LSchefman]

>>yeah, it's like an addiction. For $300 more I can get the 824s..<<

I actually prefer the 624s to the 824s. The tradeoff is a small amount of low end, and very high volume linearity.

However, what you get is a bit less fatiguing monitor.

I have sat behind many 824 sessions, and they affect me with somewhat more ear fatigue. It's not huge, but it did bother me.

At the time, I was using Genelec 1031 A monitors, which are admittedly three times the 824's price, but they're the same size and don't have fatigue.

With the 624s, I was so happy with the "translatability" of the response I actually sold the Genelecs, and bought myself a nice guitar with the difference! I'm getting what I consider to be more accurate mixes with them.

I am going to add the subwoofer at some point, and add a pair of PMC monitors as a high end "doublecheck", but I really like these little Mackies, and I think the 6" woofer causes fewer low end problems in some rooms.

If you'd like to hear a recent tune mixed on my little Mackies, I can email one. It sounds fantastic.

Just my two cents.

[MichaelK]

Well, so it's not "just me." :)

[jzucker]

Originally posted by LSchefman
>>yeah, it's like an addiction. For $300 more I can get the 824s..<<

I actually prefer the 624s to the 824s. The tradeoff is a small amount of low end, and very high volume linearity.

However, what you get is a bit less fatiguing monitor.

I have sat behind many 824 sessions, and they affect me with somewhat more ear fatigue. It's not huge, but it did bother me.

At the time, I was using Genelec 1031 A monitors, which are admittedly three times the 824's price, but they're the same size and don't have fatigue.

With the 624s, I was so happy with the "translatability" of the response I actually sold the Genelecs, and bought myself a nice guitar with the difference! I'm getting what I consider to be more accurate mixes with them.

I am going to add the subwoofer at some point, and add a pair of PMC monitors as a high end "doublecheck", but I really like these little Mackies, and I think the 6" woofer causes fewer low end problems in some rooms.

If you'd like to hear a recent tune mixed on my little Mackies, I can email one. It sounds fantastic.

Just my two cents.

I'd love to hear one of your mixes! :-)