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View Full Version : Reason to choose a Tim/Timmy over a Barber LTD?


gatordoc
11-18-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm pretty much sold on picking up an LTD SR but have never heard a Timmy or Tim live so not sure how they compare. All 3 of these pedals are loved around here but was wondering if there might be a particular benefit that one of these pedals may have over the others. This pedal would be mostly for low to mid gain rhythm. All my other ODs are TS types.

Preferences in no particular order: 1) tight bass, 2) warm, 3) slightly compressed, 4) smooth, 5) low noise.

I use a G&L S-500 about 75% of the time and a Heritage H157CM with SD '59s typically into a Mesa Boogie MK IV or SF Princeton Reverb just for reference.

Thazy
11-18-2008, 09:49 PM
I have both and run the Timmy into the Barber LTD SR and they make a great combo. I run the Timmy pretty clean and the SR with the gain at about 3:00. The internal trimmers for bass and presence in the SR can be tweaked to help fine tune it. Together, stacked they sound great too.

Jack
11-18-2008, 10:02 PM
Tim/timmy will give you more control over the eq. I think it's more flexible in that regard and can sculpt your sound differently. A lot of people leave the timmy on all the time at the end of the chain for "tone sculpting".

I prefer the Tim/timmy for those reasons. But, looking at your 5 criteria, I think it's a toss-up. The tims will give you more bass, but I don't know that it would be tighter.

High Voltage
11-18-2008, 10:15 PM
I use the LTD SR into the Timmy. The LTD stays on most of the time and just adds a bit of hair. I use the Timmy for med-gain rhythm.

boon
11-18-2008, 11:09 PM
I've had both pedals and they're both the best pedals out there for that cleanish overdriven sound. However, I found a barber cool drive and that has been my favorite since.

Jazzydave
11-18-2008, 11:13 PM
I just recently got a Timmy and can't believe that I've lived this long without it. I haven't tried the LTD but can strongly recommend the Timmy. It is definitely tight on the low end and I can agree with the above comment in regards to EQ.

I'm running it as my clean boost (although it gives a fantastic overdrive tone to my lead ch.) w/ an Aramat Green Machine to push it over the edge - very creamy overdrive combo!

Tripower455
11-18-2008, 11:21 PM
My Barber LTD Black has been my go to light OD for about a year now. I recently got a Tim, and have been playing with it for about 2 months. I am constantly messing with it, and can never get it quite right. I put the LTD back on the board for band practice last week, and bingo, there was the tone I was trying to dial in on the Tim.

YMMV and all that, but the LTD is a great OD.

I play P-90 and HB Gibsons (SG/LP) into Hiwatts FWIW....

Jazzydave
11-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Let me mention this as well - the Timmy/TIMs have a unique voice that everyone may not like. I've been a TS driver guy for a long time and it took me a little while to get used to the Timmy but once I did I love it.

Not for everyone...as with all gear!

jony2
11-18-2008, 11:37 PM
LTD is going to be smoother than the TIM/Timmy.

TIM/Timmy has fantastic tone controls.

gatordoc
11-19-2008, 07:04 PM
Thanks for the input! So, it sounds like either one would probably fit my needs. I do like the extra EQ the Tim or Timmy would provide as I prefer to dial in the tone of each pedal rather than mess around with separate EQs downstream. Also, the Tim would allow me to have separate drive and boost in the same pedal.

Too many choices! Not to mention Dave Barber really confuses things by now making the LTD SR, LTD Black v2, Cool Drive, Low Gain DD, .........:huh

doralin
11-19-2008, 07:20 PM
Let's talk about the Timmy!
Have owned one for 3 months and all I can say is,
if you do not like your Timmy; you do not like your guitar; you do not like your amp.

Timmy is your gear and more of it.
When I set the bass and treble flat, I get 99.97% of my exact sound (numbers are to stress the fact).

However for TS afficianados, the Timmy may be unusual for you because unfortunately the Timmy doesn't color my tone.

If you're looking for other drive pedals I can recommend one.

A recent addition to my drive pedals (yes and I should make it a big S behind the pedal), is the NOC3 Pure Drive (Compact Version) which according to Nic at NOC3 has the same amount of gain on tap as the old big boxed version with boost switched on and maxed. He also refined the bass and treble response on it.

Well,
For ultimate compact tweakability, the NOC3 Pure Drive beats the Timmy.
I was able to get much more versatility from the Pure Drive. Transparency wise, Timmy was still ahead but not by miles. The Pure Drive has got 2 internal trimpots to tweak it to match your amp and guitar.

At gigs (where tone comes 2nd and versatility comes 1st, and where board space is dependent on gig size), NOC3 Pure Drive wins.
But for my future plans, I plan to get a rack switching system like 3 GCX and a GCP from Voodoo Labs so I can lug everything in a fridge rack.

I'm in both camps for OD's, I love my TS Clones and I also love the tone of my guitar straight to amp tone.

I recommend the Pure Drive and Timmy very highly.

Have not tried the Barber LTD yet but I have tried the Barb EQ and that was nothing to shout home about. Will be trying a Barber Custom B Cool as soon as I have funds (curse the economy).

Hope this helps!

Wei

Tripower455
11-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Let's talk about the Timmy!
Have owned one for 3 months and all I can say is,
if you do not like your Timmy; you do not like your guitar; you do not like your amp.




I disagree. I love my guitars and amps! I did not like my Timmy, and my Tim's days are numbered!

Jacobpaul81
11-19-2008, 10:07 PM
I disagree. I love my guitars and amps! I did not like my Timmy, and my Tim's days are numbered!

Interesting. How are you running your amps? Clean, mild breakup, full bore?


Here's my experiance with Timmy:

If you run your amps hot... Timmy will sound like your guitar and amp cranked up. Paul designed the pedal as an eq boost to use with his marshall rig. While designing the pedal, he decided to add a gain section. That gain section is "inspired" by the traditional RAT distortion pedal. so if you like Rat tones, this is a pedal worth trying. It's as non-ts as you can get. There's very minimal compression, so it's incredibly transparent.

RATs sound pretty farty in front of bedroom level volume and Timmy's pretty much the same. Alot of guys like TS pedals cause they can add distortion to a clean amp. Timmy can do that, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as when you get the amp really going, and allow it to push it. I've found that most guys who don't like them, run their amps clean.

Now me personally, I love the Timmy. I've tried alot of ODs, and for me, nothing works quite like a timmy. The gain range is huge, which lets it be used as a clean boost, low gain od, mid gain od, all the way up to mild distortion tones. I use it to produce such a wide range of tones, and the eq makes it very tweakable, so I can switch from amp to amp, and not have to use a different OD pedal.

If you're looking for an OD pedal with compression, Timmy's not the pedal for you. It won't color your tone.

It's certainly not for everybody. Think of it as Mike Campbell, not SRV. =)

BillyK
11-20-2008, 05:49 AM
I own/have owned the Tim, Timmy, LTD and LTD SR. All great pedals, for sure.

IMO, the LTD's introduce compression, slight as it might be, right away. With the gain up a bit on the LTD's, I think most players will think that it's a good pedal for single-note stuff as the compression provides some "singing" quality even at low volumes.

The Tim and especially the Timmy have no discernable compression when set low, and this allows for me to add a bit of gain while not moving so quickly to the more compressed "closed" (best term for me) sound of the LTD's and every other pedal I've tried for this purpose. I think this is why lots of players love the Timmy for chordwork. I live in an opposite reality - I love it for single-note work 'cause it sounds exactly like my '67 BFDR on 4/5 just starting to get hot/bothered, but at home practice levels. For more singing stuff I use Zens, Tim or an Eternity for starters, and a Keeley Rat or Humphrey Metal Zone (no kidding!) for more extreme stuff.

For me, for the role of super-low gain boost, the Timmy astounds.

tlee1183
11-20-2008, 07:16 AM
I use the LTD SR into the Timmy. The LTD stays on most of the time and just adds a bit of hair. I use the Timmy for med-gain rhythm.

+1. That's exactly how I do mine too. The LTD is a bit compressed and has a different flavor than the Timmy. LTD can work well as a treble booster too. Timmy is just really versatile for low/med gain stuff. Pretty much you can make it whatever you need. I run my at the default open setting but it can get compressed as well with the switches inside. The EQ on this thing is was sells me, very nice. I was worried when I got my Timmy that it would just be redundant with my LTD SR. I love my LTD SR and would hate to kick it off the board but to my relief they each can bring a little something different and work well together.

fr8_trane
11-20-2008, 08:11 AM
I'm pretty much sold on picking up an LTD SR but have never heard a Timmy or Tim live so not sure how they compare. All 3 of these pedals are loved around here but was wondering if there might be a particular benefit that one of these pedals may have over the others. This pedal would be mostly for low to mid gain rhythm. All my other ODs are TS types.

Preferences in no particular order: 1) tight bass, 2) warm, 3) slightly compressed, 4) smooth, 5) low noise.

I use a G&L S-500 about 75% of the time and a Heritage H157CM with SD '59s typically into a Mesa Boogie MK IV or SF Princeton Reverb just for reference.

Tight bass and low noise is no problem with the timmy.

That said the timmy is not compressed, warm or smooth. For that matter neither is the LTD although it has a bit more of a mid hump.

The timmy is gritty in a realllly nice way. Think, plexi, ac30, or deluxe reverb on 6 depending on the amp you play through. This makes it an amazing compliment to smooth od's which usually lack teeth, sound flat, stale, boring, etc to me.

I have heard that you can smooth out the timmy by swapping the stock chip for an LM1458 but why anyone would want to do that is beyond me. The musical grittiness is what MAKES the Timmy IMO.

Tripower455
11-20-2008, 09:13 AM
Interesting. How are you running your amps? Clean, mild breakup, full bore?


I run them clean, almost on the verge of breakup.


Here's my experiance with Timmy:

If you run your amps hot... Timmy will sound like your guitar and amp cranked up. Paul designed the pedal as an eq boost to use with his marshall rig. While designing the pedal, he decided to add a gain section. That gain section is "inspired" by the traditional RAT distortion pedal. so if you like Rat tones, this is a pedal worth trying. It's as non-ts as you can get. There's very minimal compression, so it's incredibly transparent.

Interesting. Paul C. mentioned to me that the Tim/Timmy was specifically designed for a Strat into a Marshall. I play HB and P-90 Gibsons, primarily an SG Std. and an R9 into Hiwatts almost exclusively.

I've been using a Keeley Rat for my heavier stuff for about 4 years now. It isn't going anywhere either. Great pedal!

RATs sound pretty farty in front of bedroom level volume and Timmy's pretty much the same. Alot of guys like TS pedals cause they can add distortion to a clean amp. Timmy can do that, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as when you get the amp really going, and allow it to push it. I've found that most guys who don't like them, run their amps clean.

That could be the issue. I've had a few TS inspired pedals, and hated the massive mid boost with my rig....

I play in a classic rock cover band, so versatility is the key and I do it with one amp.

I definitely don't play at bedroom volume, I play at loud, heavy handed drummer band volume, but set the amp so that the clean cuts through.

FWIW, the Rat sounds phenominal, but I have to have the both preamp and mv up or it does get thin sounding. It's one of the reasons I use Hiwatts. I can get that thick clean sound, and it responds so well to pedals.

Try as I might, I just can't get the Tim to do what I need it to. I agree that the LTD has a bit of a mid hump to it, but that definitely helps a little in the band mix. Ironically, with both the Tim and Timmy, I found that I loved both of them while playing by myself, but they almost dissapeared in the band.

I am not particularly enamored with the LTD by itself, but in the band situation, it kills for that low gain crunchy rythym stuff, and leads with another pedal for boost (I used to use a Boost n' Buff, but I built a JP Hiwatt with a built in boost stage in the pre, and now use that).

The LTD sounds like my Hiwatt cranked up a bit, even when the thing is attenuated! I've got some recordings of a gig we did in Sept., and it was a very noise sensitive venue. I used my UA, and on a couple of the recordings, which were taken from FOH, I can actually hear the pick hitting the strings over the guitar tone, which sounds like it is CRANKED.

Now me personally, I love the Timmy. I've tried alot of ODs, and for me, nothing works quite like a timmy. The gain range is huge, which lets it be used as a clean boost, low gain od, mid gain od, all the way up to mild distortion tones. I use it to produce such a wide range of tones, and the eq makes it very tweakable, so I can switch from amp to amp, and not have to use a different OD pedal.

Maybe I have to play with the Tim some more. This is exactly what happened after I sold my Timmy. One of these threads came up and I figured that I MUST'VE been using it wrong (and yes, I know that the tone controls work backwards), so I bought the Tim. I have been so close to putting the Tim on the Emporium in the last few weeks. I think I'll hang on to it for a little longer.......

If you're looking for an OD pedal with compression, Timmy's not the pedal for you. It won't color your tone.

I am definitely not looking for a lot of compression... That's why I play Hiwatts! This is the paradox I have with the Tim/Timmy. Everyone says that it is supposed to do exactly what I want (your amp, but more of it), but it doesn't!

It's certainly not for everybody. Think of it as Mike Campbell, not SRV. =)

As much can be said for pretty much ANYTHING guitar related! Which is a good thing.... If everyone sounded the same, it would be a very boring world!

fr8_trane
11-20-2008, 10:54 AM
Here's a description of the timmy in Paul's own words. Some of the geek-speak has been edited or distilled by me.

I made the [first] Tim pedal back in 1997.... for my rig, and I sold some to local guys at that time when they heard mine. It was not based off of a tube reamer or any other circuit like that. It is not a ts clone. There's more to a TS than an opamp and diodes...

Here's the deal - the pedal started life as a simple opamp booster to kick my marshall. I added a simple... filter to it to take off the highs to warm it up. Every now and then I'd hit the pedal hard, and it would [distort]. I didn't like the sound of that so i put in some diode [clippers] because they sounded better to me than the sound of [the op-amp clipping]. Then i felt that there was to much low end in the circuit when it was clipping, but i wanted to keep the low end for when it was clean. I wanted a pre clipping bass control to be able to control that, but i didn't want it to change the gain, so I made a simple cap mixer, and picked the values i like best.

If I had to say this pedal is like something I'd say it's 1/4 micro amp, 1/4 rat, 1/4 screamer, 1/4 something that was new to me 10 years ago.

BTW I'm pretty sure the clipping section is TS inspired, the treble filter control is rat inspired and the pre gain bass rolloff was his own concept. With the gain and EQ off the thing is basically a boutique clean booster - Pure volume boost, no clipping, and very transparent.

From there you can add nice gritty clipping while maintaining the transparent tone. As the clipping increases you need to roll off more highs and lows to maintain a pleasing tone. How much rolloff is up to you and your definition of pleasing tone. Its a well designed circuit that sounds great by itself and becomes even more useful when stacked with other pedals or pushing an amp.

The Barber SLTD I had was nice too but I still own the timmy.

thedroid
11-20-2008, 11:13 AM
I've got a Tim; never had an LTD. What separates the Tim from other ODs for me is that there's zero compression. I can get a nice drive sound on the lower strings and still pick out a few notes on the high ones and hear them ring. The sound is very clear. It can be set for a mild mid hump if you want.

When I pull the compression pot on the Tim (internal dip switches on the Timmy) it sounds more like other ODs, though the EQ is still more versatile.

I'm always surprised to hear someone say they couldn't get a sound they liked out of the Tim, because between the compression and EQ options, I think the Tim/Timmy can cover a lot more sounds than any OD I've come across. But if you want some compression and don't need that much control over EQ, there are definitely other ODs that will work just as well, and the Tim isn't capable of copping every OD sound.

FWIW, I have an amp that overdrives very easily, so my problem with pedals is often that they add too much drive/compression.

jfromel
11-20-2008, 11:19 AM
I have a Tim and played with the LTD but never owned one. You might want to try a Silver Kiss, I have two of them, one is an early prototype so they both sound different but the EQ makes it very easy to dial in a great sound.

I wouldn't get rid of the Tim or LTD though, both fantastic pedals.

gatordoc
11-20-2008, 11:24 AM
For all you who have tried or currently own a Tim or Timmy, are there any clips out there that you feel do a good job at showing what the pedal actually sounds like in person? I'm not opposed to getting a non-TS sound as I already have TS pedals. I just want to make sure I like the nature of the "grit" as I usually stay away from gritty pedals as it's not my personal preference in OD. Also, I don't use Marshall amps. My main amps are either Fender or Fender-like.

I should also have mentioned that I'm looking to use this for recording so my amps will be clean at studio volumes with the pedal doing most of the dirty work.

Jacobpaul81
11-20-2008, 12:18 PM
If I had to say this pedal is like something I'd say it's 1/4 micro amp, 1/4 rat, 1/4 screamer, 1/4 something that was new to me 10 years ago.


Paul's pretty much right on with his assessment. I use mine to fill both the micro amp and rat purposes.

Jacobpaul81
11-20-2008, 12:32 PM
Interesting. Paul C. mentioned to me that the Tim/Timmy was specifically designed for a Strat into a Marshall. I play HB and P-90 Gibsons, primarily an SG Std. and an R9 into Hiwatts almost exclusively.

I am definitely not looking for a lot of compression... That's why I play Hiwatts! This is the paradox I have with the Tim/Timmy. Everyone says that it is supposed to do exactly what I want (your amp, but more of it), but it doesn't!

Interesting. It's always good to hear counter opinions.

I'm not really all that well informed when it comes to Hiwatts. It's not an amp manufacuter that I've spent any time with. I assume they are on the brighter side if their cleans cut well? Like a bright Marshall? I wonder if they have trouble pairing with pedals?

I've got a little AMPEG JET that I swear by, but it hates pedals. They fart out in front of it. It's got super punchy cleans, even at high volume. The amp sounds so good, and cuts so well with it's cleans, that it makes most pedals sound like crap. I've tried a ton of pedals in front of it, including a moho mods rat. However, Timmy is really good at adding some grit to that amp without taking away from it's punchiness.

jamison162
11-20-2008, 12:46 PM
I've got a Timmy, LTD Silver and LTD/SR. I've had the older standard LTD but not the v2. The Silver LTD and my BOR sound more alike while the Timmy and LTD/SR are similar. What I'm saying is there's the Timmy, and then there's 3 different version of the LTD, so you could own both and cover different ground.

gatordoc
11-20-2008, 02:18 PM
The Barb E.Q. is an perfectly clean EQ, the rest of the pedals being discussed are light overdrive pedals...I agree, as a light overdrive pedal, the Barb E.Q. would be pretty boring if not terrible, but when you use the three classic E.Q. circuits that were designed by Fender and Marshall decades ago as an E.Q. it all seems to work out. :love:

So Dave, which would you choose, the Timmy/Tim or LTD?:D

goodhonk
11-20-2008, 02:27 PM
The Barb E.Q. is an perfectly clean EQ, the rest of the pedals being discussed are light overdrive pedals...I agree, as a light overdrive pedal, the Barb E.Q. would be pretty boring if not terrible, but when you use the three classic E.Q. circuits that were designed by Fender and Marshall decades ago as an E.Q. it all seems to work out. :love:


what happens if you run the barb e.q. into a drri? i thought it would be cool to have some more "amp" options, but didn't know if this was a good way to get them.

thedroid
11-20-2008, 02:33 PM
For all you who have tried or currently own a Tim or Timmy, are there any clips out there that you feel do a good job at showing what the pedal actually sounds like in person? I'm not opposed to getting a non-TS sound as I already have TS pedals. I just want to make sure I like the nature of the "grit" as I usually stay away from gritty pedals as it's not my personal preference in OD. Also, I don't use Marshall amps. My main amps are either Fender or Fender-like.

I should also have mentioned that I'm looking to use this for recording so my amps will be clean at studio volumes with the pedal doing most of the dirty work.

There's a youtube clip of a woman playing a couple of Gibsons through a Tim into a champ that I think is a good example. I don't hear "grit" in the pedal, as in a grainy OD sound. It's capable of a very subtle OD, like an amp turned up past clean but not at all saturated. (Perhaps this is what other mean but "grit.") The pedal will also do saturated sounds if you like, but it's this low-gain power-amp style distortion that sets it apart. I've only used it with two amps, but it does seem to me to sound different with different amps. I'm using low headroom amps set fairly clean.

Tripower455
11-20-2008, 02:58 PM
Interesting. It's always good to hear counter opinions.


I totally agree, and I really don't want to come off as bashing Paul C or his products, I am just trying to get my head around this thing. After posting this morning, I went out and put the Tim on my board. I started with a flat EQ and just went through some of the songs I use the LTD and also the Rat on. I am still getting used to setting up the new amp, as it is quite different from my normal Hiwatts. The jury is still out, but I was liking what I heard.

I'm not really all that well informed when it comes to Hiwatts. It's not an amp manufacuter that I've spent any time with. I assume they are on the brighter side if their cleans cut well? Like a bright Marshall?

They are more like a Fender on steroids. Lots of clean, punchy headroom, with plenty of presence and high end. The new one is a little more Marshally sounding, and it actually sounds better with the Tim than the more traditional ones I am used to.

I wonder if they have trouble pairing with pedals?

They are very pedal friendly. Moreso than my Twin Reverb. There are a few it doesn't work well with but it's a pretty short list.

I've got a little AMPEG JET that I swear by, but it hates pedals. They fart out in front of it. It's got super punchy cleans, even at high volume. The amp sounds so good, and cuts so well with it's cleans, that it makes most pedals sound like crap. I've tried a ton of pedals in front of it, including a moho mods rat. However, Timmy is really good at adding some grit to that amp without taking away from it's punchiness.


That sounds a lot like a Hiwatt, but the only time certain pedals fart out in front of them is if you have the MV and preamp volume set very low. Get them up about halfway and watch out......

I'm gonna play with the Tim some more.

gatordoc
11-21-2008, 03:00 PM
I own both! :AOK

Good answer!!

I'll probably wind up doing the same thing as I've always wanted to try one of Paul's pedals. Now if you can get my DD SS with the racing stripes ready to go soon, it'll be a very Merry Christmas!:drink

Just in case you stop back here, considering my current set-up, which one of your low-med ODs would you suggest? LTD v2, SR, DD LG, or Cool? It'll most likely be used with the MK IV/S-500 combination. Thanks.