Benedetto's worm-eaten guitar top

[MartinPiana]

Bob Benedetto has hired a team to make his models, which he oversees, while he makes one offs - both custom and from his imagination.

Check out this one, in particular, with a worm-eaten top. Partial description from the site:

"Brent Cole, owner of Alaska Specialty Woods (http://www.alaskawoods.com/), handed Bob some of his finest Sitka spruce -- including a bizarre example of the Teredo-eaten spruce -- he couldn’t resist but to take it and turn it into a fine archtop. Carrying around the bookmatched top for years, only recently did Bob have the time to create a guitar around the top."

http://www.benedettoguitars.com/bb-ilteredo.php (http://www.benedettoguitars.com/bb-ilteredo.php)

It was quickly snapped up with a price tag of $52,500. (How do they decided on that price, and not 52K or 53k? or $50k for that matter?)

[dr.morton]

Great guitar, not so great price.

[decay-o-caster]

At this moment I love the look of that guitar more than any guitar I have ever seen. Stunning!

[ford]

Wow.. I could buy ten awesome five thousand dollar guitars for that price! I mean that guitar looks cool... but ten five thousand dollar guitars! Truthfully, I don't even know of ten guitars I would buy that cost that much... so by being frugal and going used and new.. I'll buy 15-20 priced between the prices of 2-3 thousand dollars.

But those "worm" holes are crazy!

rock

bford

[tonefreak]

A very unique piece indeed! I love it!

[HurricaneJesus]

Eh. Weird for the sake of weird.

[gtraddict]

I dont think I could ever buy it either

[dr.morton]

Well, I could afford it but I would have to sell my wife and daughter into slavery...

[Jahn]

"Nature Made My Soundholes." Sounds like a folksong. You must only play this guitar while wearing Clamdiggers.

[Bobbyoso]

Think of it as annelid relicing

[JBG]

I like it. I think most people would overlook a piece of wood with that kind of "character".

[BettyFjord]

It's gorgeous.

http://www.benedettoguitars.com/images/bobsboutique/ilteredo-full1.jpg

[scott]

Its cool. it looks like the top is inset into another top.....there is purferling aound the recarve. Ive never seen that done before.




www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)

[Boomer]

I'm a bit confused. The purpose of the top is to resonate. It's always seemed to me that holes in the top would damp resonance.

At the big guitar show in Miami some months ago I met Ken Parker and talked to him while drooling over his $35,000 archtop. I did think that the placement of his sound hole was a little strange and asked about it. He explained that it didn't make sense to put a soundhole under the strings or near the bridge as that is the part of the guitar that you want vibrating. Now, you guys show me a $52,000 guitar with a top full of holes in random spots and of varying sizes with no thought to the placement of the holes as it's natures' way.

Obviously, there are going to be many theories on this subject. Anyone else have some thoughts on why one top would be better or worse or just different and why one might sound better than another?

[Jack Briggs]

Its cool. it looks like the top is inset into another top.....there is purferling aound the recarve. Ive never seen that done before.




www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)


Yeah - I think that's so they'd have a solid glue surface for the entire perimeter.

Character, indeed!


Cheers,

[atquinn]

That looks awesome to me. Wonder if it sounds better or worse than a traditional archtop.

-Austin

[gitman]

reminds me of the guitar he built using wood from the home depot store..... that one too had the tone and an absolutely unique look, complete with knots and all ! it proves a point.... a great piece. and a stylish chair.

[decay-o-caster]

...Now, you guys show me a $52,000 guitar with a top full of holes in random spots and of varying sizes with no thought to the placement of the holes as it's natures' way...


Isn't it just possible that someone of his skill level could take that top, shape it, work with the elements of the guitar to make something special out of it, "random" or not?

[JBG]

reminds me of the guitar he built using wood from the home depot store.....

Well.. there ya go. I think a lot people get too wrapped up in the science/techno/mumbo jumbo regarding wood and guitars. Sometimes it's better to build it & see what happens. If it sounds like poop, at least it'll look beautiful on the wall. But I HIGHLY doubt the tones would resemble anything in the deuce family.

[fusionbear]

Whenever I see that guitar, for better or worse, I keep thinking of "the emperor's new clothes"

[big mike]

Its cool. it looks like the top is inset into another top.....there is purferling aound the recarve. Ive never seen that done before.




www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)

Actually I've seen something similar out of Glendale...

I find this guitar rather off-putting. It's an interesting experience, and I'm glad someone had the stones to try the wood, but I don't care for it.

[XKnight]

Bob Benedetto has hired a team to make his models, which he oversees, while he makes one offs - both custom and from his imagination.

Check out this one, in particular, with a worm-eaten top.

So how much did the team of worms get payed to make this particular model?

[chumpguitars]

No offense to the makers of the guitar, but I kinda want to throw up when I looked at it. I cant bring myself to like a guitar who's wood has been eaten by some gross parasite. And to me, I dont think it looks that cool.

[Bassomatic]

Nice, as it should be at $52,500(!).

[Luke]

It is a conversation piece due to its oddity and the builder's fame. If you have money to burn, why not. I'm not interested at 5% of the price.

[phoenix 7]

Interesting. But not $52K worth of interesting (to me).

[jazzandmetal?]

I think that guitar is pretty cool. Wonder how it sounds!

[gitman]

he does get a lot of attention with this, don't he now ? ......
still, i'm sure Mr. B. is beyond that marketing hoopla and pretty much
does what he wants.
you all remember that horrid "sharkfin " archtop by
John D'Angelico ? some adventurous costumer in the late 50's with enough $$$ convinced the man to
carve an instrument that became the single most collectible archtop in existance and the centerpiece of the
famous Chinery Collection (now all gone....). my point : these instruments are rarely built to be used/played by a professional but rather as a show piece, an experiment and to prove a point regarding some construction technique, wood choice, etc. i was once lucky enough to own a veritable '88 Benedetto Fratello and compared it to the "home depot wood" guitar he built : it was an unbelievably close match in tone and playability. made me think hard about my prejudices regarding curls, quilts, stripes and knots ....
lastly : we could argue about aesthetics til the cows come home and never reach a consensus here .....

[Izy]

That looks awesome to me. Wonder if it sounds better or worse than a traditional archtop.

-Austin

Took the words right out of my mouth......

I'm really curious to hear the sound this guitar would produce.

Could the owner, whoever he is pose some clips to satisfy our curious minds??

:o

[Mark Kane]

That's called making lemonade out of a lemon.

[ford]

I'm ready to start my new business of aging wood with "killer" worms!:Devil

Who's ready for their worm eaten Taylor, Grosh, Fender CS.. etc....

ha

bford

[Sam Evans]

It's gorgeous.

http://www.benedettoguitars.com/images/bobsboutique/ilteredo-full1.jpg

I think so too. Dig the solid edge between the top and side.

EDIT- Oops. I see that Jack and Scott already pointed to the top's edge.

[Jon Silberman]

What specie of worm was it? I won't buy just any night-crawler-infested wood. It has to be an exotic specie.

[big mike]

What specie of worm was it? I won't buy just any night-crawler-infested wood. It has to be an exotic specie.

Oh no you didn't.
:roll

[Sam Evans]

What specie of worm was it? I won't buy just any night-crawler-infested wood. It has to be an exotic specie.
Or, what drill bits and soldering iron were used? That's a joke by the way.

I know a few mantle builders, and they mimic worm holes with the drill bit/dye/soldering iron technique. It's freaky how close they get.

S

[jzgtrguy]

That is beautiful! I"d buy it in a New York Minute!

[slopeshoulder]

IMO:
1. butt-ugly
2. probably sounds worse for wear
3. everything that is wrong with the collector mindset
4. in this economy?
YMMV
Vive La Difference...

[Sam Evans]

Vive La Difference...

Totally agree.

[loudboy]

Took the words right out of my mouth......

I'm really curious to hear the sound this guitar would produce.

Could the owner, whoever he is pose some clips to satisfy our curious minds??

:o

I highly doubt that anyone will ever PLAY that guitar.

At that price, it's going to sit in a case somewhere.

[nik]

i was once lucky enough to own a veritable '88 Benedetto Fratello and compared it to the "home depot wood" guitar he built : it was an unbelievably close match in tone and playability. made me think hard about my prejudices regarding curls, quilts, stripes and knots...

I think these master luthiers know how to make the sound they want with whatever wood they have available to them, by knowing what to do if the wood is very stiff or whatever differences they see from one piece to the next. This reminds me of what Ted Megas told me when I was looking into ordering a guitar from him and trying to decide if I wanted to upgrade the woods on it. He said if you're going to spend that kind of money on the guitar you might as well upgrade to better looking woods. It seems to help with resale and I think people will continue to do that as long as these "nice" looking woods are still available and affordable (of course what one thinks of as "nice" looking and affordable is still subjective and relative).

[stan p]

I am not a luthier, but from what I see, there seems to be more going on with this guitar than what's visible to the eye.

The "concentric" double top and "shower" soundholes may actually have a very powerful and unique effect on the sound.

In wonder if small random soundholes actually strenthen the top and make it work like no soundhole at all but without the air compression.

Each sounhole probably produces slightly different frequency and the sound probably radiates from the entire top of the guitar.

Luthiers, please correct me if I am wrong.

Also it is very interesting to see the relationship between the tops - I wonder if the the outter thing (that seems thinner) works as a suspension for the inner part?

[Rob Sharer]

Boys, those are some big-ass worms. I'm going to say shipworms, teredoes, piddocks, what have you...looks like this wood was submerged in the briny at some point. Cheers,

Rob

[Pa'ani]

That is so very cool and quite unique, Bob Benedetto is truly a genius and a Master Luthier and Craftman!

[BettyFjord]

Boys, those are some big-ass worms. I'm going to say shipworms, teredoes, piddocks, what have you...looks like this wood was submerged in the briny at some point.

That's a superb guess.

From the site: "Sometime between 1955-1964, massive Sitka spruce logs were cut and lashed together to form log floats. 20 or so floats were in-turn lashed together on which a logger’s camp was built (literally a floating town that was towed and anchored from bay to bay…floating homes for Alaskan loggers and their families.) While submerged, the log floats were victimized by the Teredo."

And the guitar's named... wait for it... Il Teredo.

[MartinPiana]

My opinion is that the world is a wee bit better and more interesting place thanks to this creation of Benedetto. I think it's gorgeous and imaginative, and would love to hear it.

[Saul Koll]

:pOne must be careful around these worms..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455067,00.html

[ford]

:pOne must be careful around these worms..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455067,00.html

Saul.. that is GROSS... and a bit scary.. thanks for pointing it out... I guess..:messedup

rock

bford

[Dave Orban]

I'm a bit confused. The purpose of the top is to resonate. It's always seemed to me that holes in the top would damp resonance.

At the big guitar show in Miami some months ago I met Ken Parker and talked to him while drooling over his $35,000 archtop. I did think that the placement of his sound hole was a little strange and asked about it. He explained that it didn't make sense to put a soundhole under the strings or near the bridge as that is the part of the guitar that you want vibrating. Now, you guys show me a $52,000 guitar with a top full of holes in random spots and of varying sizes with no thought to the placement of the holes as it's natures' way.

Obviously, there are going to be many theories on this subject. Anyone else have some thoughts on why one top would be better or worse or just different and why one might sound better than another?I'm guessing that Bob Benedetto knows a few more things about building an archtop than does Ken Parker.

[Jack Briggs]

I am not a luthier, but from what I see, there seems to be more going on with this guitar than what's visible to the eye.

The "concentric" double top and "shower" soundholes may actually have a very powerful and unique effect on the sound.

In wonder if small random soundholes actually strenthen the top and make it work like no soundhole at all but without the air compression.

Each sounhole probably produces slightly different frequency and the sound probably radiates from the entire top of the guitar.

Luthiers, please correct me if I am wrong.

Also it is very interesting to see the relationship between the tops - I wonder if the the outter thing (that seems thinner) works as a suspension for the inner part?


stan p,

You are seeing something that may be very true. Dr. Kasha revolutionized top plate tuning and bracing concepts by moving soundholes to the edges of a plate, rather than in the center, as tradition would dictate. The theory (and a sound one at that:phones) is that the top is a vibrating plate which must be able to move to regenerate sound waves, which are supported by the volume of the 'box' of the guitar's body. The holes enable the waves to eminate from the box into the room, thereby being heard by the listener's ears, a microphone, or what have you.

The outer part of a normal top plate of an archtop acoustic is very much a suspension with the recurve being the compliant part, sort of like the surround of a speaker cone. So maybe Benedetto, being the brilliant luthier that he is saw the opportunity to use a spruce or other softwood for the outer part of that top plate which would serve that very purpose, and give the top some sound (another pun:phones) glue surface to the linings inside the box.

One can only imagine if that particular top does in fact sound good, but it certainly is unique looking, to say the least!




Cheers,

[MartinPiana]

:pOne must be careful around these worms..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455067,00.html

That's what she gets for playing Il Teredo with her tongue.

[scott]

The price is about right I think. A lot of his Models are already that much or more. Ive seen so called "sculptures" that look like a kid made them go for over a Million dollars. A little marble and a grinder. Archtops take FOREVER to build! Ive built a few and its a long, patient job. $10,000 would be a minimum for any kind of archtop with nice woods, inlay and binding. Throw in Bobs excelent rep. His skill and talent...not to mention his fanbase and there you go. This is a ONE OFF from THE master archtop builder of the times. This guy is the Stradavarious of archtop builders. Im glad there are people out there willing to support an artist like him and pay him what he deserves to be paid for a liftime of dedication to his art. I should be so lucky.There is no reason a man cant make a comforable living doing what he loves. Any decent Chello or fiddle goes for at least that much or more.



www.heatleyguitars.com (http://www.heatleyguitars.com)

[Boomer]

I'm guessing that Bob Benedetto knows a few more things about building an archtop than does Ken Parker.
Why would you diss Ken Parker over a conclusion I drew?

[george4908]

Another Bendetto one-off:

http://www.jazzguitar.com/features/imgs/pizlogo.jpg

Info here: http://www.jazzguitar.com/features/pizzar.html

[Ian Anderson]

Very cool! I am sure it sounds amazing as well, I do not see how a guy like Mr. Benedetto could stand to make a bad sounding guitar for the sake of novelty.

[clemduolian]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Orban http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5053889#post5053889)
I'm guessing that Bob Benedetto knows a few more things about building an archtop than does Ken Parker.

Why would you diss Ken Parker over a conclusion I drew?

INDEED.

FWIW, before he founded the company that became Parker Guitars, Ken Parker was a respected and accomplished archtop builder. He is, without question, one of the most accomplished luthiers alive today and one look at his current cutting edge instruments would confirm that to anyone. As many contemporary luthiers have shown, with stunning visual and sonic results, the placement, shape and number of sound holes can vary hugely in guitars.

Both Benedetto and Parker are masters of their craft and, as master craftsmen, each is constantly striving to improve and grow with each instrument and design project they undertake AND each is rarely, if ever, fully satisfied with the result. Even when the results are awe inspiring.

O.K.rant and response over. (and if you haven't done so, its worth a visit to www.kenparkerarchtops.com). PAX.

[jcoloccia]

FWIW, I believe the back is more critical than the top to a great sounding archtop. Sure, the top has to move but I believe it's the back that really determines a large part of the tone. I believe that hole placement and shape is much less important than the total area of the holes.

If I were approaching this project, I would find a section of wood that would give me approximately the right area of holes, and fine tune from there with bracing, thickness, etc.

Anyhow, that's a fantastic example from someone at the top of his game. It's a shame that guitar makers never get to the top of their game until they're much older. It is truly a discipline that takes a lifetime to learn.

[mikeSF]

That is a gorgeous guitar indeed. Bravissimo to Mr. Benedetto!
I think i am most amazed at how he must have had to navigate all those worm holes to place his braces such that they cannot be seen. I assume this is X-braced?
Dang, i would love to hear what that sounds like.
I have owned a couple of Benedettos myself and have been fortunate to play many of his handmade guitars and he is truly a master of the highest order.:AOK
The price was right, obviously, if someone snapped it up so quickly...he prolly coulda gotten $60K for it...:dunno

[mikeSF]

Here is my beloved Benedetto seven string:

http://home.comcast.net/~bayareajazz/MikeSeven22.jpg

:love:

[Eicr]

i dont think that price was only for the collector in mind. Just because the guitar costs way more than guitars you're used to doesnt mean its not aimed at a player. guitars are much cheaper than most instruments. Ask the principal cellist at your local symphony orchestra how much they paid for their number 1 cello.

Im not trying to defend or oppose the high prices of instruments like these. Im not a professional musician. I make money from music, but its not my primary source of income. Thus, I dont really have the luxury of an opinion in that matter. Im merely pointing out that even though it has a high price, its still built with the intention of having it being played.

As for Ken Parker. His archtop pedigree is solid, as is Benedetto's, but there is much less science in guitar building than people would lead you to believe. Paul Jacobson wrote a great article on the scientific processes of guitar building. http://www.pjguitar.com/article4.htm you cant really say that one knows more about archtops than the other.

[hookakat1]

:pOne must be careful around these worms..
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455067,00.html

The guitar made from that woman's brain is gonna go for 100k easily.

[Tonefish]

seems like a cool novelty unless it sounds great (not that I will ever get the chance to hear it)

[Thor]

Adventurous functional art. I certainly hope it was purchased by a player, but I wouldn't be surprised if this unique one-off is now proudly displayed as part of a collection rather than on a stage entertaining people.

-Edward

[7StringJazz]

IMO:
1. butt-ugly
2. probably sounds worse for wear
3. everything that is wrong with the collector mindset
4. in this economy?
YMMV
Vive La Difference...

My thoughts exactly. :messedup

[Izy]

I highly doubt that anyone will ever PLAY that guitar.

At that price, it's going to sit in a case somewhere.

If no one is playing this guitar, then i would think its pretty sad.

guitars are instruments and they are mean to be played not just collected and sealed for eternity.

Anyway, i'm still hopeful one day, i will get to hear how it sounds.

:AOK

[dr.morton]

As for Ken Parker. His archtop pedigree is solid, as is Benedetto's, but there is much less science in guitar building than people would lead you to believe. Paul Jacobson wrote a great article on the scientific processes of guitar building. http://www.pjguitar.com/article4.htm you cant really say that one knows more about archtops than the other.

Great article...thanks.

[7StringJazz]

Here is my beloved Benedetto seven string:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebayareajazz/MikeSeven22.jpg

:love:

Very nice! :cool:

7 String Love! http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Terry McInturff]

I am confident that...maybe against all odds...it is a great guitar. I say this due to the fact that Bob does not make poor instruments, ever.

[meandi]

I was talking with Brent Cole in May or June of this year while ordering spruce for my projects & he was telling me about Benedetto having this wood.
It's a beautiful piece of work!
It looks like he has laminated a different piece of wood below the worm wood for a more solid base for gluing to the sides.
Like a previous poster on this thread, I'm curious as to how he arranged the bracing on this guitar.

[Barefoot]

I'm sure it's a top knotch guitar but....but worm eaten wood like that usually goes into the burn piles or its cut into large dimension stuff for landscaping timbers.....but maybe it sounds terrific. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that..but maybe it sounds terrific....52 G's???... .But maybe it sounds good.

[stan p]

Why would you diss Ken Parker over a conclusion I drew?


Both are genius in their own ways. BB kinda wrote the bible on Archtops and KP rewrote it :)

[stan p]

I red an article that <I believe> Torres put a classical guitar with back and sides out of paper and it still sounded like a "guitar". He did it to prove that top is the key factor. Not sure if the same theory works for archtops tho.

FWIW, I believe the back is more critical than the top to a great sounding archtop. Sure, the top has to move but I believe it's the back that really determines a large part of the tone. I believe that hole placement and shape is much less important than the total area of the holes.

If I were approaching this project, I would find a section of wood that would give me approximately the right area of holes, and fine tune from there with bracing, thickness, etc.

Anyhow, that's a fantastic example from someone at the top of his game. It's a shame that guitar makers never get to the top of their game until they're much older. It is truly a discipline that takes a lifetime to learn.

[stan p]

Jack,

Thank you for your comments. I am honored.

I wish we, the players, opened up more to the new ideas from the luthiers. I believe this could lead us to better or newer musicall ideas.

We are leaving in the middle of Renaissance of guitar-building art and we are all very lucky to be contemporaries of so many great builders!

Thak you again!
Stan



stan p,

You are seeing something that may be very true. Dr. Kasha revolutionized top plate tuning and bracing concepts by moving soundholes to the edges of a plate, rather than in the center, as tradition would dictate. The theory (and a sound one at that:phones) is that the top is a vibrating plate which must be able to move to regenerate sound waves, which are supported by the volume of the 'box' of the guitar's body. The holes enable the waves to eminate from the box into the room, thereby being heard by the listener's ears, a microphone, or what have you.

The outer part of a normal top plate of an archtop acoustic is very much a suspension with the recurve being the compliant part, sort of like the surround of a speaker cone. So maybe Benedetto, being the brilliant luthier that he is saw the opportunity to use a spruce or other softwood for the outer part of that top plate which would serve that very purpose, and give the top some sound (another pun:phones) glue surface to the linings inside the box.

One can only imagine if that particular top does in fact sound good, but it certainly is unique looking, to say the least!




Cheers,

[jcoloccia]

I red an article that <I believe> Torres put a classical guitar with back and sides out of paper and it still sounded like a "guitar". He did it to prove that top is the key factor. Not sure if the same theory works for archtops tho.

LOL. I'm not sure either! I wish I had the time to build 10 or 20 different archtops in "throwaway" configurations just for the sake of experimenting and really quantifying what's doing what.

[mikeSF]

I was talking with Brent Cole in May or June of this year while ordering spruce for my projects & he was telling me about Benedetto having this wood.
It's a beautiful piece of work!
It looks like he has laminated a different piece of wood below the worm wood for a more solid base for gluing to the sides.
Like a previous poster on this thread, I'm curious as to how he arranged the bracing on this guitar.

ive been following YOUR archtop build project in the other forum.
nice work!!:AOK

[mikeSF]

what's the upcharge to get the neck to bend like that :dunno

ha, it's easier to tweak a tuner on the fly this way...
haha.
actually, that other guitar in the photo used to belong to Frank Vignola.

[meandi]

ive been following YOUR archtop build project in the other forum.
nice work!!:AOK


Thank you. I appreciate the compliment!

[Neill]

Wow.. I could buy ten awesome five thousand dollar guitars for that price! I mean that guitar looks cool... but ten five thousand dollar guitars!

bford

you could also buy 340 korean fender squires, or 1,050,000 big red feat candies.

[Old Tele man]

...has he tried to sell it to Willie Nelson as a "high-end" substitute for "Trigger"?

[KRosser]

I want to like it but it kind of gives me the creeps to look at it.

[m.z.]

funky! I kinda dig it..... heh.... dig... not as much as the lil wormies!

[mikeSF]

those bores werent made by just ANY "lil wormies"...makes me think about those giant sandworms from the DUNE novels.

http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/pplHqhGZdXqnc90X1MH5rw101469/GW267H239

:eek::eek::eek:

[mikeSF]

...has he tried to sell it to Willie Nelson as a "high-end" substitute for "Trigger"?

nice!:AOK

[meandi]

...has he tried to sell it to Willie Nelson as a "high-end" substitute for "Trigger"?

Speaking of Trigger, Willie knows how "relic" a guitar!