CAGED - good for fretboard memorization?

[Prodigy]

I've got a fairly comprehensive CAGED section in my Guthrie Govan book, Creative Guitar. After reading through most of it, it almost seems counterintuitive to improvisation...The shapes of CAGED only apply to one chord. For example, when you look at CAGED on the neck, you see everywhere there's a C major chord, but you have to visualize 6 more CAGED chords all over the neck if you want to play in a key... That's my impression anyways...I'm likely mistaken! Am I looking at this thing the wrong way, or am I just wasting my time with it? I've been playing for 17 years and I can improvise over most anything, but I want to be able to see the shapes, patterns, and notes on the fretboard more clearly to take my improv skills to the next level...if possible.

[derekd]

CAGED seems to work for the majority of players. It does have it's limitations though. It appears to be the most popular approach, so there must be some reason for that. It is how I was first taught, but I quickly abandoned it when I began studying jazz.

[SnidelyWhiplash]

CAGED works for me.

[Bryan T]

The beauty of CAGED is that it covers the entire neck in a simple (5 shapes) manner. If you can find the root notes, then you can find ways to play the chords (and any scales and arpeggios by adding/deleting/tweaking tones). Is it the be-all, end-all? No, but as a visualization tool it works really well for a lot of players.

I teach my students using CAGED (plus a few other ways of visualizing) and it works for most of them. Some can't get past the pentatonic patterns they learned when they were 13, but the majority of them begin to visualize the fingerboard in ways they didn't think they were capable of.

Bryan

[gennation]

I use CAGED with my students and it ties together the "I know this fingering and this fingering, and this...", it shows them the rest of the fingerings for the chord, and why those are the fingerings.

It's a simple, easy to comprehend, map showing the logic of the fretboard using some of the first learned items...open chords...and nothing more.

But to fully show WHY it works, a basic understanding of intervals, triad and chord building, and triad inversions will take it to the next level.

The biggest use of CAGED in rock guitar is the chord fragments of CAGED. Here's where you'll find most of the great Keith Richards, Jimi Hendrix, etc...song riffs. IOW, once you understand the full CAGED forms for Major and Minor chords you'll see them used, through their fragments, in some of the greatest rock and roll riffs.

The other thing I show is how to find contained areas of chords in chord progressions such as I IV V, I VIm IV V, etc... So instead of moving chords up and down the fretboard, you can make small changes to the chord you are on and achieve the next chord...ONLY moving the notes that change between the chord. Kind of like a piano players right hand, they can change a series of chord and it only looks like they are moving one or two fingers and they are at the next chord. It makes nice "in context", "in one area" chord changes through a progression.

CAGED is the easy concept of the fretboard, and it's nothing else until you take it to the next step. It'll also get you to use the term "movable chords" rather than "barre chords".

[Lammy]

I think its use in jazz, is exceptional. Expanding CAGED into upper structures allows you to start marking what extension is what on chords and also applied to scales. Its an extremely logical way to visualize the fretboard.

[dimperdoo]

What I have found to be key with the CAGED system is the fundamental understanding it gives you of the major scale - it's basically a quick reference - not only to notes throughout the fretboard - but, also to that scale (which can be varied to apply to variations of the major scale?)

I think I learned it upside down since being self taught - I found it after chord construction and theory in general. If given the CAGED system - then using it as a building block to develop chord construction, intervals, and theory; I would say it's an invaluable shortcut.

[archtop]

I'm also a guitar teacher and have put together a book that fleshes out the CAGED concept for all the typical scales as well as getting into jazz melodic minor modes etc.

I think it's a great system that you can hang just about any idea on. I've been thinking about turning my book into a product.... one of these days.

[Prodigy]

It'll also get you to use the term "movable chords" rather than "barre chords".

I was at that point years and years ago...seems more of a concept for beginners.

[gennation]

I was at that point years and years ago...seems more of a concept for beginners.

It's what I teach my students. The first time they see it they may not be a beginner player, but only seeing it for the first time. Personally I had put "mapping the fretboard" together back in the mid-70's and used it for a few years then heard Joe Pass explain it, I never knew it was a documented concept. Now I see everyone using it.

The idea of the movable chords as opposed to calling them barre chords is that most guitarist learn their barre chords from the low E and A strings, the ones that have a "fuller" barre. But then, they learn that these two chords they've been playing for a while are actually part of a large system, or method that all "move" around the same...but don't have "full" barres.

[dimperdoo]

I would say it is a beginner's system - but many non-beginners have not been exposed to it.

[gennation]

I would say it is a beginner's system - but many non-beginners have not been exposed to it.

True, and a lot of pro's still use it, especially the fragments. It's not everything musically, but where the fretboard is concerned it's a solid method.

[Clifford-D]

Think of CAGED Chords as a simple five chord shape MAP of the neck.

The intervalic structure of R 3 5 R low to high, and R 5 R 3 low to high are the two
predominant interval structures in the CAGED chords.

That means all these chords are R35R
.....G............C...........hi E
|-----------------------8--|
|-------------1---------8--|
|---5---------0---------9--|
|---5---------2---------10-|
|---7---------3------------|
|---8----------------------|


And all these are R5R3
...low E...........A.............D
|------------------------12-|
|--------------5---------13-|
|---9----------5---------12-|
|---10---------5---------10-|
|---10---------3------------|
|---8-----------------------|

That means in the CAGED chord system there is really only
two shapes, two voicings of a C chord. A couple notes on
the G shape don't play the game right, but just a couple.

With only two chord shapes to deal with this simplifies things considerably.
Voicings all work the same, R 3 b7 9 is the same for three CAGED shapes.


The CAGED chords are only two intervalic shapes. That makes it so much easier.
That's ok with me.

[Bryan T]

The CAGED chords are only two intervalic shapes.

I teach CAGED more from the geometric standpoint. Saying that the C chord is stacked the same way as the G chord doesn't help the player much when they run into the B string. I stress the intervals within the shapes quite a bit, so the student does see that they share the same intervals, but they have the geometry to help them navigate the guitar's tuning idiosyncrasies.

Bryan

[Clifford-D]

I teach CAGED more from the geometric standpoint. Saying that the C chord is stacked the same way as the G chord doesn't help the player much when they run into the B string. I stress the intervals within the shapes quite a bit, so the student does see that they share the same intervals, but they have the geometry to help them navigate the guitar's tuning idiosyncrasies.

Bryan
I brought attention to the troblesome B/E string but in my opinion
that is too small of a point to not look at the symetries I layed out.
That symetry of the two interval shapes can't be denyed.
It's good that you see what I'm talking about. Many people don't. :)

[dewey decibel]

I've got a fairly comprehensive CAGED section in my Guthrie Govan book, Creative Guitar. After reading through most of it, it almost seems counterintuitive to improvisation...The shapes of CAGED only apply to one chord. For example, when you look at CAGED on the neck, you see everywhere there's a C major chord, but you have to visualize 6 more CAGED chords all over the neck if you want to play in a key... That's my impression anyways...I'm likely mistaken!


Don't confuse a shape with a chord. If you've been playing any amount of time you're aware that you can move things on the neck to change keys. It's the same with these shapes- don't get hung up on the specifics of CAGED- it really doesn't matter if it's an A shape, a G shape, etc. The main thing is to know what your root is. If you're trying to make a Bb chord with it's root on the low 'E' string then you have two options, an E shape or a G shape. If it's root is on the 'A' string then you have a C shape or an A shape. And they're similar- the E and A shape are similar and the G and C shape are similar. Once you understand this it gets much easier and you'll forget all about which shape it is and just think of it as a Bb chord.

I'm self taught and I figured out the CAGED method on my own. If you look at the guitar neck and attempt to build chords from a root on a given string CAGED is basically what you end up with- there's only so many ways you can fret a chord (without any complicated stretching anyway). I didn't know it was actually called something till much later on.

The other thing I always advise in these CAGED threads is to make sure you're learning what each note in the shape is in terms of intervals. Is it the 3rd? 5th? The reason is it makes it much easier to build a scale over that shape, or change that shape to get other chords and scales. Basically you should see this CAGED thing as a frame over the neck with which you can build other chords and scales.

[decay-o-caster]

Back to the OP's original question - is CAGED good for fretboard memorization? I would say absolutely yes. Just memorize a few easy things - the "D" shape on the fretboard dot positions, for example - and you know a lot more about the neck than you knew only knowing the E and A barres. If you know any scale and chord theory, knowing that the top 3 strings of the "D" shape are 5-1-3, low to high, that opens up even more of the neck. And since you also know the minor shapes of at least the "A", "E", and "D" shapes, and the 7th shapes, again, more of the neck is opened up. That gives you chord fragments to play and the ability to improvise over chord tones if you combine it with pentatonic shapes you know.

For me CAGED really made sense of the guitar neck better than anything else I ever tried over the course of 35+ years of playing. So yes, a beginner concept I'd wished I'd learned decades before.

[Macaroni]

Even better than CAGED (IMHO) is Kirk L'Orange's Plane Talk method...

http://www.thatllteachyou.com/

It includes the CAGED concepts, but takes it even further. Once you 'grok' what he's showing you, your mind will explode and the whole fret board will unfold in front of you with total clarity and simplicity, at all times.

Highly recommended. :D

Here's a blurb to get you started...

The easiest yet most powerful guitar lesson you will ever learn.

Does this sound like you? You know scales, you dabble with modes, you know your chords and you can handle a bit of improvising, but you're still wondering how it is that some players seem to have the whole fretboard at their disposal; they seem to know how, why and where to find every last fragment of music ... with total ease. The whole fingerboard seems to be friendly, familiar territory to them, no matter what the music is doing.


Enviable? Yes, and learnable.



Hi, I'm Kirk Lorange, author of PlaneTalk. You have obviously found this site because you've heard about it somewhere on the net and you're wondering what all the fuss is about. This book and DVD have been selling from this site for over ten years now, teaching thousands of players from all over the world a very simple way to map out the fretboard, how to decode that annoying 'kink in the tuning' and a mindset which enables you to freely improvise over any old chord progression without once thinking 'scale' or 'mode' or 'Pentatonic box'.



I never found those useful when it came to making real music. I learned them all, I still know them all, but they always just sounded like scales and failed completely over complex chord progressions. I moved on to something far more practical, powerful and musical years ago.



The basic mindset is nothing new -- follow the changes -- but that's easier said than done. That seems to imply that you follow chord progressions, but how? What do you think about? What do you look at down there on the fretboard? There are thousands of chords and anyway, what does that mean exactly?

[Bo Faulkner]

upon looking into the CAGED thing... I see that that is already how I look at the fretboard.