Not all that impressed with 'Let's crap on a guitar legend' threads.

[Suproman77]

Anyone else? :dunno

[ivers]

It takes great skill.

[joemesser]

Beats practicing.......

[Shnook]

I was so unimpressed with the title that I didn't even click onto the thread. :dunno

[epluribus]

But it wouldn't make any sense to dump on people nobody's ever heard of would it? :huh

[frank62]

But it wouldn't make any sense to dump on people nobody's ever heard of would it? :huh
We are very good at that as well.

[Suproman77]

But it wouldn't make any sense to dump on people nobody's ever heard of would it? :huh

Call me crazy, but I'd like to think it makes more sense to talk about what impresses you rather than what doesn't. :dunno

Maybe that makes me hypocritical to say that right now though...fighting fire with fire, and all.

[studiodunn]

wow, your really taking this Page thing hard......tissue?

It's the internet. Let it go.

[Suproman77]

wow, your really taking this Page thing hard......tissue?

It's the internet. Let it go.

How about you let it go first?

Awww, wanna tissue? I'm sorry. ;)

[edgewound]

I have never heard a recording of Jimmy Page live that has impressed me. His complete fear of playing in front of people led him to always seem to be in a severly altered state of consciousness via drugs and alcohol. He could barely stand up.

In the studio...on his records...on the other hand...is sheer artistic, sonic and musical brilliance.

The plagiarizing and lack of acknowledgements is another issue.

Jeff Beck...well that's the winner from that era that can still impress.

[shaneygoo]

Page is already in the history books as a god and legend

trashy people talk trashy...

at least he hasn't died on a toilet or overdosed so he can live up to the worlds idiotic rock star standards...

[Suproman77]

His complete fear of playing in front of people led him to always seem to be in a severly altered state of consciousness via drugs and alcohol.

Where did you hear that?

[rwe333]

I'm impressed w/ this thread.

[Jon Silberman]

Suproman, thanks for articulating what so many of us think. :)

[TwoTubMan]

Where did you hear that?

Probably on the internet, so it must be true!

[Suproman77]

Suproman, thanks for articulating what so many of us think. :)

You're welcome. :AOK

[Wagster]

I'm waiting for a I like to crap thread.Nothing like grabbing the morning paper and heading for the toilet.Ahh one of the many joys of life.

[ROKY]

Anyone else? :dunno

Get .. Brett .. Weir.. I said !!

[Suproman77]

Get .. Brett .. Weir.. I said !!

LOL! :roll

[edgewound]

Where did you hear that?

I didn't hear it...I read it in a guitar oriented magazine decades ago.

He was a heroine addict, and played drunk frequently.

He's infamous for being one of the sloppiest guitar playing legends...ever.

I cringe when I hear/see him recorded live. How can he be so great in the studio and so awful live?

Probably because the majority of his concert audiences were wasted at the time, too.

[jonlarsen002]

I guess TGP isn't a safe place to discuss what you prefer and what you don't prefer anymore. Everybody has got to escalate the issue to say that I am "crapping" on a legend by saying that I'm not as impressed or that I don't feel his vibe in this or that way.

I guess it's back to threads about which is the best version of the OCD.

[edgewound]

I guess TGP isn't a safe place to discuss what you prefer and what you don't prefer anymore .

Maybe you didn't get the memo that it's wrong in the US today to have a contrarian opinion on anything. The USPS probably lost it.

Everything's just peachy all around until you disagree with...anyone.:AOK

[Suproman77]

I didn't hear it...I read it in a guitar oriented magazine decades ago.

I think what you read was this...

"The general urgency and the pent-up whoa was in all of us. The mechanism was perfectly oiled. We started steaming in rehearsals. We did a lot of old rock and roll numbers just to loosen up a bit. 'For Your Life' was made up in the studio, right on the spot. I particularly enjoyed the guitar playing on the blues things. The solos never had that coloring before. I was so happy about it... especially since I have to warm up to solo. I get nervous about that kind of guitar playing. Really, very insecure about it. But that's the way I can really concentrate. I'm usually at my best when I'm really exhausted or under pressure or both. When you're exhausted all you want to know about is what you have to do."

He was talking about his studio work and banging out solos. Sorry, I'm a stickler for getting facts straight on Page because there is so much misinformation floating around about him.

Yes, he did his share of drugs and alcohol which effected his playing on stage later on in his Zeppelin career, but I don't believe it was because of stage freight. He just liked to party hard like most musicians of that era.


He's infamous for being one of the sloppiest guitar playing legends...ever.


Doesn't matter. I've heard plenty enough of his live shows that knocked my socks off with is amazing ability. That old cliche doesn't mean much when you put it into context with his incredible career.

[Jon Silberman]

I guess TGP isn't a safe place to discuss what you prefer and what you don't prefer anymore. Everybody has got to escalate the issue to say that I am "crapping" on a legend by saying that I'm not as impressed or that I don't feel his vibe in this or that way.
Congrats - you win the "maximum irony in a TGP post" award.

It should be perfectly safe for you to discuss what YOU don't prefer but then when someone like Suproman (w/my concurrence, FWIW) discusses how he doesn't prefer what you're posting then he becomes the "escalator?!"

You can't make this s- up, my friends! :D

[jtm622]

I guess TGP isn't a safe place to discuss what you prefer and what you don't prefer anymore. Everybody has got to escalate the issue to say that I am "crapping" on a legend by saying that I'm not as impressed or that I don't feel his vibe in this or that way.

I guess it's back to threads about which is the best version of the OCD.

I don't know, but a "thick skin" would definitely come in handy to anyone who deemed to start a thread which could easily be construed as "negative" by some folks...

P.S. - You can do whatever you want, of course, but I could see no reason to delete that thread...

[Wagster]

I've noticed that a lot of people on TGP get their panties all tied up in a wad over the littlest of things.I don't personally care for Jimmy page.I have never been a fan but that's just my personal taste, no big deal.I should have the right to discuss it like an adult.This is a public forum, right?

[edgewound]

I think what you read was this...

Thanks for reminding me of what I read, but i don't think that was it.



Yes, he did his share of drugs and alcohol which effected his playing on stage later on in his Zeppelin career, but I don't believe it was because of stage freight. He just liked to party hard like most musicians of that era.


I've never heard Beck, Clapton, Allman Brothers, etc. play that sloppy live.



Doesn't matter. I've heard plenty enough of his live shows that knocked my socks off with is amazing ability. That old cliche doesn't mean much when you put it into context with his incredible career


I never said his career wasn't/isn't incredible. In fact I give him high praise for what he has done...brilliance, genius.

But I do have an opinion on his live playing, and I don't care for it. If I spend my money to see an artist perform, he/she should be able to perform up to my standards that the artist has benchmarked for him/herself. It's a product. Isn't it?

I saw BB King a couple of years ago...in his 80's, no less. The man was a quintessential performer.

Love Page's studio stuff.

[Jon Silberman]

In my experience, when someone here accuses someone else of "getting his panties tied up in a wad," 99% of the time that's "code" for, "Hey guys - MY panties are in a wad."

But, of course, no one minds my having said this here because it surely couldn't apply to anyone on this thread. ;)

Signed, Pantymeister

[Wagster]

In my experience, when someone here accuses someone else of "getting his panties tied up in a wad," 99% of the time that's "code" for, "Hey guys - MY panties are in a wad."

But, of course, you don't mind my having said this because it surely doesn't apply to you.Same goes for you :banana

[Jon Silberman]

Of course, that's why I signed as Pantymeister! :o

[jonlarsen002]

Congrats - you win the "maximum irony in a TGP post" award.

It should be perfectly safe for you to discuss what YOU don't prefer but then when someone like Suproman (w/my concurrence, FWIW) discusses how he doesn't prefer what you're posting then he becomes the "escalator?!"

You can't make this s- up, my friends! :D
it's different... think about it... Suproman IS NOT saying that he disagrees or prefers otherwise.... he's saying that he's tired of the threads I'm posting. I didn't say that he can't post that opinion, only that I want to post whatever is on my mind in a civil manner. I'm definding that right, not saying that he doesn't also have that right.

this is really a conversation about a conversation... it's quite silly, and I feel dumb for getting caught up in this.

[Wagster]

Of course, that's why I signed as Pantymeister! :o:drink

[Suproman77]

Thanks for reminding me of what I read, but i don't think that was it.

Ok, if you happen to find what it actually was, then I'd love to read it myself. Let me know if you find it.


I've never heard Beck, Clapton, Allman Brothers, etc. play that sloppy live.

I've heard some sloppy Beck and Hendrix...definitely. Clapton is tight on stage, but he's kind of boring. If you've heard one, you've heard them all, kinda thing. Allman Brothers, I have no clue about...never listened to their live material.


I never said his career wasn't/isn't incredible. In fact I give him high praise for what he has done...brilliance, genius.

But I do have an opinion on his live playing, and I don't care for it. If I spend my money to see an artist perform, he/she should be able to perform up to my standards that the artist has benchmarked for him/herself. It's a product. Isn't it?

I saw BB King a couple of years ago...in his 80's, no less. The man was a quintessential performer.

Love Page's studio stuff.

Alright, you sound like a Page fan who doesn't appreciate his loose, improv style on stage and that's fine. I happen to love it, but I also think that much of what I've dug into of theirs was pretty tight overall. That reputation of being a sloppy player, I believe, came mostly from his '79, '80 live shows when he was completely strung out on heroine. I don't think anyone could play well like that.

[jtm622]

it's different... think about it... Suproman IS NOT saying that he disagrees or prefers otherwise.... he's saying that he's tired of the threads I'm posting. I didn't say that he can't post that opinion, only that I want to post whatever is on my mind in a civil manner. I'm definding that right, not saying that he doesn't also have that right.

this is really a conversation about a conversation... it's quite silly, and I feel dumb for getting caught up in this.

If you're not pissing off somebody with a post about one topic or another around here, then you're simply not trying hard enough... :AOK

[Jon Silberman]

it's different... think about it... Suproman IS NOT saying that he disagrees or prefers otherwise.... he's saying that he's tired of the threads I'm posting. I didn't say that he can't post that opinion, only that I want to post whatever is on my mind in a civil manner. I'm definding that right, not saying that he doesn't also have that right.

this is really a conversation about a conversation... it's quite silly, and I feel dumb for getting caught up in this.
Well, here's your chance to extricate yourself and end your involvement: give me the last word! :)

And here it is: it all boils down to this: you like what you say and you don't like what the other guy says. That's really it in a nutshell. All else is commentary.

AFAIC, both of you can say what you like as long as you're polite (which you are), same for me, and all is well. :BEER

[Tonefish]

Yeah, it sucks!! But nearly as unimpressive and unfortunately also as inviting are the threads that are started about player "x" being the worlds absolute greatest. People need to realize there's lots of room for everything and everyone without it having to be all or nothing.

[Suproman77]

it's different... think about it... Suproman IS NOT saying that he disagrees or prefers otherwise.... he's saying that he's tired of the threads I'm posting. I didn't say that he can't post that opinion, only that I want to post whatever is on my mind in a civil manner. I'm definding that right, not saying that he doesn't also have that right.

this is really a conversation about a conversation... it's quite silly, and I feel dumb for getting caught up in this.

Seriously, you don't think a thread like that in a guitar forum where so many people practically worship the guy is going to bait people into questioning your motives? You should have expected that much.

[edgewound]

Alright, you sound like a Page fan who doesn't appreciate his loose, improv style on stage and that's fine. I happen to love it, but I also think that much of what I've dug into of theirs was pretty tight overall. That reputation of being a sloppy player, I believe, came mostly from his '79, '80 live shows when he was completely strung out on heroine. I don't think anyone could play well like that.


If I find the reference, I'll try to get it to you...memory's not gonna cut it.

Yeah...I could listen to Physical Graffiti for days on end. Solos were songs inside of songs...So many textures, melodies, tones...what a palate of guitar painting artistry....Well that was corny...but true, to my ears anyway.

You should try to get Allman Bros.' "Live at the Fillmore East"

Kicks ass....

[Suproman77]

If I find the reference, I'll try to get it to you...memory's not gonna cut it.

Yeah...I could listen to Physical Graffiti for days on end. Solos were songs inside of songs...So many textures, melodies, tones...what a palate of guitar painting artistry....Well that was corny...but true, to my ears anyway.

You should try to get Allman Bros.' "Live at the Fillmore East"

Kicks ass....

I'll check that out sometime. Thanks. :AOK

[edgewound]

Yeah, it sucks!! But nearly as unimpressive and unfortunately also as inviting are the threads that are started about player "x" being the worlds absolute greatest. People need to realize there's lots of room for everything and everyone without it having to be all or nothing.

Agreed on that, for sure.

I love homemade macaronie and cheese....but not for every meal, everyday.

Now...In-n-Out Burger....:love:...

[studiodunn]

Yeah, it sucks!! But nearly as unimpressive and unfortunately also as inviting are the threads that are started about player "x" being the worlds absolute greatest. People need to realize there's lots of room for everything and everyone without it having to be all or nothing.

The problem with worshiping or idlolizing is, it is all or nothing.

[stevieboy]

... But nearly as unimpressive and unfortunately also as inviting are the threads that are started about player "x" being the worlds absolute greatest...

If someone posts a contrary opinion on that kind of thread, they are usually told in no uncertain terms that they shouldn't have opened the thread.

[epluribus]

We are very good at that as well.

Us being a full-service discussion group after all... :)

Call me crazy, but I'd like to think it makes more sense to talk about what impresses you rather than what doesn't. :dunno

Maybe that makes me hypocritical to say that right now though...fighting fire with fire, and all.

jk bro, I was takin' the thread title tongue-in-cheek as well. No offense or actual carping intended. :)

But it is necessarily a balance, tough though it is, that we must strike. I have to agree that much of what we (as artists) do involves seeking new paths, and that means determining where the old ones have already been. To that extent I think criticism is valid. But to be disrespectful or stinky about it--hate wastin' heartbeats on that stuff, and it just clouds up your vision anyway--1) I don't know everything, and 2) I just hate to slam doors in general.

--Ray

[Dave Orban]

I have never heard a recording of Jimmy Page live that has impressed me. His complete fear of playing in front of people led him to always seem to be in a severly altered state of consciousness via drugs and alcohol. He could barely stand up.

In the studio...on his records...on the other hand...is sheer artistic, sonic and musical brilliance.

The plagiarizing and lack of acknowledgements is another issue.

Jeff Beck...well that's the winner from that era that can still impress.Sounds about right.

[wire 247]

I have heard and seen Dickey Betts play quite sloppy a couple of different shows.. Hendrix I have heard bootlegs where he is playing sloppy, it happens... It is very hard to play with the same magic and intensity every night..

[edgewound]

I have heard and seen Dickey Betts play quite sloppy a couple of different shows.. Hendrix I have heard bootlegs where he is playing sloppy, it happens... It is very hard to play with the same magic and intensity every night..

Oh, I agree...But being totally jacked on stage when getting loads of money for your craft is to me like showing up for work drunk.

It's wrong and you'll probably get fired.

[Brian Scherzer]

My wish is that people keep it a discussion and not an argument. Say what you need to say and allow others to have their opinions. Here's mine.....

I saw Led Zep several times in the decades gone by and was not as impressed live as I was with their recordings. Of course, this is true for lots of bands. Bonham was often stated to be off-time, but most of us (the audiences) never noticed it. In fact, I remember Woodstock fondly. Just about every band sounded incredible (there may have been chemicals involved) and it was a great experience. However, go rent the movie "Woodstock" and you would never understand why 400,000 people thought it was an incredible set of performances! I cringed last time I watched it. I guess it was one of those things where you just had to be there.

[Neer]

It's just music. Guitar players/enthusiasts get caught up in the minutia of someone's playing, whether it's sloppy, perfect, etc. This is Rock and Roll we're talking about, it isn't classical music. If you could get inside of the head of the average listener, it's about what the music means to them. None of that guitar crap matters to anyone but guitar geeks. Sometimes a player plays with reckless abandon ala Neil Young, Jimmy Page and it may sound sloppy as hell. So what? Are we machines? When it's done well, you can get a lot of emotion from it.

[Suproman77]

It's just music. Guitar players/enthusiasts get caught up in the minutia of someone's playing, whether it's sloppy, perfect, etc. This is Rock and Roll we're talking about, it isn't classical music. If you could get inside of the head of the average listener, it's about what the music means to them. None of that guitar crap matters to anyone but guitar geeks. Sometimes a player plays with reckless abandon ala Neil Young, Jimmy Page and it may sound sloppy as hell. So what? Are we machines? When it's done well, you can get a lot of emotion from it.

That's basically what I get out of it...the emotion and feel of the performance. Even if Page never got to where he was going with a solo, I can see where he was going with it and that's enough for me.

You're right about the comparison to classical music. Rock isn't about nailing a technically flawless performance each and every time...at least, that's not what I ever thought it should be about and I know that most of the 'guitar gods' felt/feel the same way. They treat their music as a means of expressing whatever they happen to feel at any given moment and that's what makes it interesting. In a sense, rock music is anti-classical and not every performance is intended to be a technical home run.

[CocoTone]

I'm waiting for a I like to crap thread.Nothing like grabbing the morning paper and heading for the toilet.Ahh one of the many joys of life.

Almost as good as sex!

CT.

[tedzepplin]

Anyone else? :dunno

If I were to sit and write about all the guitarists, bands, musicians that I'm not into it would take several days for me to write about all of them. Maybe even longer if I wrote complete sentences. There are so many bands in the world it's easy to find music I don't like. I pretty much only have to turn on the radio and I'll hear music I don't like all day long. I'd rather spend my energy and time talking about music that I like rather than what I don't like.

I think that a person starting a thread simply saying they aren't impressed by a certain guitarist or band is simply trolling for a reaction.

Maybe if a person went into more depth of explaining that they used to like a certain band, but either the band changed or the listener changed, then maybe it would seem more like a discussion rather than the sort of thread that simply throws a topic out there for others to react to.

[jgyn]

I'll be way in the minority here, but I think rock music would be better off with LESS reverence. A sense of history is fine, but methinks it oftimes blankets the angry, chaotic and therefore revolutionary spirit of rock.

[Scott Auld]

Supro ... You absolutely must try Duane & the boys on LIVE AT FILLMORE EAST.

Boys should be issued a copy at birth.

[spectreman]

Tight but loose...that was Page's M.O. and sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

I know that when I play live, I want to take chances and push myself. Sometimes it works and sometimes it goes over like a lead balloon.

The Allman Bros Live at the Fillmore reissue (remastered by Tom Dowd) was the first CD I bought in the early 1990s. Amazing performance, but it helps to reinforce what taking chances (and having them become genious) is all about.

We all have different opinions and views on our "favorites" and I don't find anything wrong with that. If I happen to disagree, then I don't revisit that thread, because it is nearly impossible to change somebody's mind, especially on the 'net.

[paulg]

I've always been amazed when someone write a "love" thread. Give it about ten positive hits before the negative nellies start chiming in. A real shocker was the recent Santana thread. The second poster was blasting Carlos. There's no one truth (unless you believe in God( not EC!).