Steve Morse or Eric Johnson??

[mikeratan00]

Who is the bigger daddy, tough one .... Let's hear it...

[SL_22]

EJ over everyone. Morse is a fantastic player that's better than most.
His music doesn't appeal to me.

[rwe333]

Think each is the other's biggest fan. 'Nuff said...

Both totally badass, remarkably proficient, unique players who've carved out enviable careers.

The aforementioned w/ Rod Morgenstein:
http://www.rodmorgenstein.com/photos/rod-morse-e.jpg

[fenderball]

they are buds, but steve is it

[Stratofuzz]

Morse

[Funky Chicken]

Morse.
The guy has chops equal to or better than EJ, PLUS he's the better composer, arranger, and bandleader. Steve does way more things way better, and he doesn't care what brand of 9 Volt is in his pedals. He's also a really nice and approachable guy.

[BIGGERSTAFF]

Close call, but I'd go with Morse. He certainly has a wider stylistic variety.

[DamianL]

EJ for me...



To my ears Morse just doesn't have that X factor....:dunno

[Bryan T]

http://www.rodmorgenstein.com/photos/rod-morse-e.jpg

Arm wrestling? Steve, for sure!

[BIGGERSTAFF]

Arm wrestling? Steve, for sure!

Rod wins for the hair cut category though.:AOK

[Cap'n Fingers]

Think each is the other's biggest fan. 'Nuff said...

Both totally badass, remarkably proficient, unique players who've carved out enviable careers.

The aforementioned w/ Rod Morgenstein:
http://www.rodmorgenstein.com/photos/rod-morse-e.jpg

:agree

Composition wise,(IMO),Much of Steve's music would be more difficult to play.
But, depending on how you look at it, even that is a toss up.

[Wagster]

EJ's poodle mullet was unstoppable in those days.

[dets1]

i too would have to give it to morse for the same reasons stated. i think he's shown over the years to be one of, if not THE most versatile players in the world. but the biggest reason i would give morse the edge is this- HE DOESN'T SING ON HIS RECORDINGS!!!!

[atquinn]

I think they're both great! Too close to call for me.

-Austin

[bkd_guitarist]

That's a tough one...two of my favorite players, but in a desert island scenario, I guess I'd have to go with Morse. And I agree wholeheartedly with this:

the biggest reason i would give morse the edge is this- HE DOESN'T SING ON HIS RECORDINGS!!!!

Please, EJ, shut up and play.

[cugel]

personally i get a bit tired of looking at SM in tank tops.

[Strat335]

I have been listening to them both since the late 70s. Steve is awesome, I saw him twice with the Dixie Dreggs in a small club. He and Rod gave me "What If" album before it came out, backstage at The Texas Opry House. We talked about Eric, who they had just heard about a couple of weeks before but had not met or seen him play yet. Steve was a force of nature with that old Tele body with 5 pickups on it. lol....But I would prefer to listen to Eric's playing, singing, and songs any day. Not even close for me. Both super nice guys.

[fyrwyr]

Very tough choice, but being a fan of Steve since '82 and being so influenced by his style I would have to go with Steve. But I really dig Erics songs as "songs" if that makes any sense; Steve satisfies the prog side of my personality as Eric does the Jazzy/poppy side.

[Red Suede]

I like them both. They do different things, to me.

[iamdavea]

There was a time when I took a back seat to no one in my love and appreciation for EJ's music and chops, but he is nowhere near the player now that he was at his "Ah Via Musicom" peak--for me, "Bloom" is so bad, it's damn near unreleasable. But I'd be VERY hard-pressed to name two solos (just to pick two off the top off my head) more glorious, beautiful, and sonically amazing as those on "Victory" and "Desert Rose." I've seen EJ perhaps a dozen times live, and, in that setting, where his playing is more off-the-cuff and less groomed, he can often sound unfocussed and in the middle of a cat fight--his melodic sensibilities sometimes fail him badly. But I do consider him more of a fire-breather than Morse, who has never made the hairs on my neck stand up, and whose huge reputation I don't understand; yes, he's eclectic, but (having seen him in person at least four times) I've never thought his playing was particularly mind-blowing, and his reputation as a "chops-meister" is laughable when he's compared to at least 20 guys I could name right off the bat. Forgive me for reducing music to a contest, but if Shawn Lane is a 10, what's Morse? MAYBE a 4? You are now all free to hit me over the head with baseball bats.

[fusionbear]

Both are amazing, but its still EJ for me, and yes I am one of the few that enjoy his singing and piano playing....

[Road King]

EJ is great but for versatility and composition (esp in old dregs material) Morse wins out IMHO

[jazzandmetal?]

If I had to pick one, it would be Morse. Easily a better songwriter IMO and his stuff is more original to my ears. I like how he combines different styles and I like his tone better as well.



AND I can't stand EJs singing.

[wrxplayer]

Morse's style includes more different sounds than Johnson's by a fair margin. I'd rather have five Morse albums than five EJ albums for that reason. But if I could have only one five minute song, it might very well be an EJ recording over a SM song.

[rwe333]

I've never thought his playing was particularly mind-blowing, and his reputation as a "chops-meister" is laughable when he's compared to at least 20 guys I could name right off the bat.

I'll bet if you ask these 20 guys, they'll tell ya Morse is among their heroes. ;)
I'd be hard pressed to name many more proficient than Morse (not to mention his unique musical voice)...

[iamdavea]

Very good point by you, rwe333, but it's in the nature of amazing guitar players to be humble about players who inspired them; it's also in their nature to become better players than their heroes.

[DrSax]

i find it strange that people choose one or the other in terms of how "hard" their stuff is or how good their chops are. What does this matter at all? I don't get it.

[jazzandmetal?]

Very good point by you, rwe333, but it's in the nature of amazing guitar players to be humble about players who inspired them; it's also in their nature to become better players than their heroes.

Can you list those 20 players real quick? I am curious.:dunno

[rwe333]

Can you list those 20 players real quick? I am curious.:dunno

Indeed, the air gets pretty thin up there...
For example, "iamdavea" mentioned Shawn Lane...
Lane better than Morse? Nah... Morse better than Lane? Nah... One wouldn't steal the others gigs, ya know? Astonishing players (as is EJ).
Room for all - every player has his/her strengths/weaknesses.

[rwe333]

i find it strange that people choose one or the other in terms of how "hard" their stuff is or how good their chops are. What does this matter at all? I don't get it.

Indeed... Musicality, unique voice matter. Morse/EJ exhibit these...
Proficiency is a means to an end, not the point.

[iamdavea]

Here's a quick dozen:

Brett Garsed
Danny Gatton
Greg Howe
Paul Gilbert
Shawn Lane
Guthrie Govan
T.J. Helmerich
Jason Becker
Buckethead
Tony Macalpine
Dave Martone
Borislav Mitic
Chris Poland
Alejandro Silva

OK, that was quick 14, and that was without leaving my chair.

[jazzandmetal?]

Here's a quick dozen:

Brett Garsed
Danny Gatton
Greg Howe
Paul Gilbert
Shawn Lane
Guthrie Govan
T.J. Helmerich
Jason Becker
Buckethead
Tony Macalpine
Dave Martone
Borislav Mitic
Chris Poland
Alejandro Silva

OK, that was quick 14, and that was without leaving my chair.

I dig almost all of the guitarists you listed.....but how are you defining better? Judging by the hefty Shrapnel label roster you listed, I think you mean faster? Gatton and Lane are the only 2 guys you listed that are even on the same playing field as Morse. Steve Morse is a legend in the guitar world. And a huge influence on the guitar playing community. A lot of the people listed are influences as well, but not on the level Morse is.

I will give you Lane and Gatton........maybe Gilbert.

Please Try again.:Devil

[splatt]

you want blood?
trophies?
penis-(or, soul-, or wallet-) measuring contests?
what fun!

dt / spltrcl

[rwe333]

you want blood?
trophies?
penis-(or, soul-, or wallet-) measuring contests?
what fun!

dt / spltrcl

"We use a large, vibrating egg." (from Annie Hall)

[iamdavea]

Here's where I'm coming from: Guitar Player magazine, several months ago, had their big "Lessons From The Ages" issue, and included one from Morse. Introducing the lesson, the writer stated, "If Steve Morse isn't the leading guitar chops-meister, he's at least in the top two."' That notion is patently ridiculous. If we're talking STRICTLY technical facility, there are loads of players whose command of the instrument is demonstrably better than Morse's. And I'm referring ONLY to players who ALSO have the gifts of musicality and feel to go with the chops--please note that my list excludes the wankers like Rusty Cooley and Michael Batio and that whole batch of knuckleheads. Obviously, no one with a deep interest in actual music goes to a concert just to watch what a guy's fingers can do, but the fact remains that the better a technician you are, the less restrictions you have on what you can EXPRESS--if you can hear it in your head, your hands can translate it through your instrument. Let me add this: for all of his obvious skill, EVERY single Holdsworth solo I've ever heard sounds just like every other one; on the other hand, some of the most incredibly lyrical and soaring melodic work I've ever had the good fortune to hear came at Buckethead concerts.

[rwe333]

Here's where I'm coming from: Guitar Player magazine, several months ago, had their big "Lessons From The Ages" issue, and included one from Morse. Introducing the lesson, the writer stated, "If Steve Morse isn't the leading guitar chops-meister, he's at least in the top two."' That notion is patently ridiculous. If we're talking STRICTLY technical facility, there are loads of players whose command of the instrument is demonstrably better than Morse's. And I'm referring ONLY to players who ALSO have the gifts of musicality and feel to go with the chops--please note that my list excludes the wankers like Rusty Cooley and Michael Batio and that whole batch of knuckleheads. Obviously, no one with a deep interest in actual music goes to a concert just to watch what a guy's fingers can do, but the fact remains that the better a technician you are, the less restrictions you have on what you can EXPRESS--if you can hear it in your head, your hands can translate it through your instrument. Let me add this: for all of his obvious skill, EVERY single Holdsworth solo I've ever heard sounds just like every other one; on the other hand, some of the most incredibly lyrical and soaring melodic work I've ever had the good fortune to hear came at Buckethead concerts.

Sorry dude, but this is simply coming off as inexperienced...
Props to all the cats you mention (yes, Buckethead is badass), but if you're not hearing the difference in Holdsworth solos and not getting the proficiency/depth of the likes of Morse then you simply need to dig deeper.
You're welcome to your opinion, but (sorry) it's just not necessarily coming off as very informed...

[jazzandmetal?]

Sorry dude, but this is simply coming off as inexperienced...
Props to all the cats you mention (yes, Buckethead is badass), but if you're not hearing the difference in Holdsworth solos and not getting the proficiency/depth of the likes of Morse then you simply need to dig deeper.
You're welcome to your opinion, but (sorry) it's just not necessarily coming off as very informed...

What he said times 10.

I am a huge fan of Buckethead. Praxis, Cobra Strike, Bucket O' Bernie Brains and his solo stuff. But his solos, generally sound similar to each other as do the riffs on a lot of his albums. Listen to Praxis and Bucketheadland. Same riffs on some of these songs. Just saying to compare to what you said about Holdsworth.

I love a lot of the guitarists you mentioned. Huge Gilbert fan, love Howes playing and Chris Poland on Peace Sells and the Ohm stuff is killer. They just aren't in the same league as someone like Steve Morse. Half of the guys in your list wouldn't even be doing the stuff they are without him.

[iamdavea]

My opinion is, actually, exceptionally well-informed--you just happen to disagree with it. The fact that someone is a "legend" or "a huge influence" doesn't necessarily translate into the basic fact of their competence. If that were the case, we could be arguing over how Scotty Moore or Steve Cropper was "better" than Steve Morse.

[iamdavea]

I defy anyone to tell me where Steve Morse's influence is on any of the 14 players I named.

[jackaroo]

I like the Dregs and really get blown over by Morse's alt picking stuff. Lot's of admiration there. But his tone leaves me flat, and his playing and music has never hit me in the same emotional way that Eric Johnson's has. Eric is pretty incredible as a physical player too...so on the chops side he's a serious cat- BUT he's hit my spine and made it tingle a hundred times more often than Morse.

Eric Johnson for me thank you...with all due respect.

[rwe333]

I defy anyone to tell me where Steve Morse's influence is on any of the 14 players I named.

Ask them (seriously) - think you'll be surprised...
I respect your opinion...

Back to your regularly scheduled thread...

EJ - Venus Isle remains one of my fave discs of ever... Just hits me start to finish, performances/production/compositions.

Morse - I remember one Summer vacation w/ my folks in Florida. I brought nothing but cassette recordings of my Dixie Dregs records. All I listened to for weeks... Man, I learned a LOT!

[iamdavea]

I'm a new guy here (old-timer at Musictoyz), and am NOT trying to ruffle feathers, simply discuss. I'm happy to leave it here, and I thank everyone for an interesting hour on a Friday evening! How about this: may we ALL be better players tomorrow!

[rwe333]

I'm a new guy here (old-timer at Musictoyz), and am NOT trying to ruffle feathers, simply discuss. I'm happy to leave it here, and I thank everyone for an interesting hour on a Friday evening! How about this: may we ALL be better players tomorrow!

Cheers mate! :BEER

[iamdavea]

Indeed! (And that solo Eric uncorks on "Venus Isle"? Leaves me freakin' breathless).

[jazzandmetal?]

I defy anyone to tell me where Steve Morse's influence is on any of the 14 players I named.

I think you can hear a little Morse in some of Guthries lines, but maybe it is just my imagination.:rolleyes:

You are entitled to your opinion though! No worries! :BEER

[jazzandmetal?]

Indeed! (And that solo Eric uncorks on "Venus Isle"? Leaves me freakin' breathless).

Some of the lines in Camels Night Out and the chord work and harmonics in Manhattan do the same for me!

[iamdavea]

Thank you J&M! (I'm a noodler myself).

[banjoze]

I've never really heard anything from Morse that I cared to hear again, but for that matter haven't heard much of him... would love to be blown away by something of his...

if you Morse fans were to pick a song or two of his that really inspire you as great pieces of music for me to check out, what would you pick?

[jazzandmetal?]

I've never really heard anything from Morse that I cared to hear again, but for that matter haven't heard much of him... would love to be blown away by something of his...

if you Morse fans were to pick a song or two of his that really inspire you as great pieces of music for me to check out, what would you pick?

Tumeni Notes
Vista Grande
Stressfest

[HarrisonYeo]

EJ for me , I really like Eric's singing too.
But indeed Steve Morse is top notch too!

[Ben F.]

I've never really heard anything from Morse that I cared to hear again, but for that matter haven't heard much of him... would love to be blown away by something of his... if you Morse fans were to pick a song or two of his that really inspire you as great pieces of music for me to check out, what would you pick?


A very simple melody that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand at full attention is "Moment's Comfort" off the Split Decision album. Actually, I think that whole album sounds more mature than some of his other releases. Dave LaRue (bass) also made some great contributions to it.

-Ben

P.S. I'll take Shawn Lane over either.

[banjoze]

Thanks! Checking them out now...

Tumeni Notes
Vista Grande
Stressfest

[lhallam]

Steve's writing, arranging, and diverse taste all performed flawlessly makes him one of my favorite musicians.

I dig E.J. but he doesn't have the depth of Mr Morse. For one thing I prefer more instruments in an ensemble.

[banjoze]

has steve morse ever had a "hit" song on the radio?

[jazzandmetal?]

has steve morse ever had a "hit" song on the radio?

Not sure, but I don't think so. Nothing like Cliffs of Dover anyways. But then again, there aren't many guitarists that have had an instrumental hit like that in recent years besides Joe Satriani.

[banjoze]

wrt to Eric, I highly recommend his "Live from Austin Tx" album.... killer recording. Listening to it now..

[MickeyJi]

Does Steve Morse *ever* cover up his biceps? :D

[dets1]

I'm a new guy here (old-timer at Musictoyz), and am NOT trying to ruffle feathers, simply discuss. I'm happy to leave it here, and I thank everyone for an interesting hour on a Friday evening! How about this: may we ALL be better players tomorrow!
hopefully, we are all better players today. but we're still not better than steve morse or ej!:D

[Cuthbert]

Eric Johnson. His music is more soulful.

[rwe333]

has steve morse ever had a "hit" song on the radio?

Tumeni Notes did rather well.
The Dregs had regional and college success (plus Montreux).
Kansas got lots of US airplay when he was in it...
...and Deep Purple remain huge in Europe w/ Morse...

[bigkahuna2u]

I think they're both inspiring in different ways to different people. Generally EJ has a bit more soul and taps into that angelic quality, SM has a bit more compositional ability, and is more grounded in his playing. I'd bet on SM in a no holds barred brawl!

[lhallam]

has steve morse ever had a "hit" song on the radio?


"Cruise Control" from their first(?) LP was played on the non-top 40 stations back in the day.

[donostia13]

Why is everyone debating about two guys that didn't even make the Rolling Stone top 100? :D

Eric's playing has been the biggest influence on my musical life, so I guess I'll take him. I love his country style, acoustic work, fusion shredding, piano playing, Wes-style jazz stuff, the Jimi influence, tone, note choice etc. etc.

Who knew string-skipping could be so much fun ;)

[stratotonedude]

Steve Morse FTW. Both are excellent players. But I like Steve Morse's playing and music alot more.

[LavaMan]

I would have to go with Steve on this one :D

http://www.lavacable.com/images/markandsteveM.jpg

[notyalcer]

I listened to everything I could get my hands on by both SM and EJ for years, loved them both. Eventually burned out and took a several year hiatus from both. Now, when I listen again I find that SM with both the Dregs and the SMB seem fresher and more timeless. Its the compositional sophistication that does it. I think SM is very exciting and driving in his solos, and he has tons of soul in his own way. SM truly has crafted his own thing - no one else really sounds like him. EJ captures the feel of so many of the greats he emulated (or "amalgamated", in his own words), and can soak a note in feeling and tone, and Ah Via is a perfect guitaristic album - but I think his style is mostly derivative. So much use of "perfected" Jimi, Reed or Wes licks. He does have his signature style in his fast lead playing, as does SM, and both of them have influenced tons of players.

Technically SM plays harder single note stuff than EJ, while EJs chordal thing is mind-boggling, but there are so many players who have taken technique to the next level beyond both of them. I place SM with DiMiola and McLaughlin in inspiring that '70s wave of technical proficiency. I get the sense that SM could play faster but chooses not to. He has his groove and its great. You can always hear the line, it never becomes a blur. I also appreciate the sense of humor SM brings to his music - I don't think EJ brings that. Finally, SM is an exceptional classical player and if you've seen his live solo show he plays just beautifully.

[fyrwyr]

I listened to everything I could get my hands on by both SM and EJ for years, loved them both. Eventually burned out and took a several year hiatus from both. Now, when I listen again I find that SM with both the Dregs and the SMB seem fresher and more timeless. Its the compositional sophistication that does it. I think SM is very exciting and driving in his solos, and he has tons of soul in his own way. SM truly has crafted his own thing - no one else really sounds like him. EJ captures the feel of so many of the greats he emulated (or "amalgamated", in his own words), and can soak a note in feeling and tone, and Ah Via is a perfect guitaristic album - but I think his style is mostly derivative. So much use of "perfected" Jimi, Reed or Wes licks. He does have his signature style in his fast lead playing, as does SM, and both of them have influenced tons of players.

Technically SM plays harder single note stuff than EJ, while EJs chordal thing is mind-boggling, but there are so many players who have taken technique to the next level beyond both of them. I place SM with DiMiola and McLaughlin in inspiring that '70s wave of technical proficiency. I get the sense that SM could play faster but chooses not to. He has his groove and its great. You can always hear the line, it never becomes a blur. I also appreciate the sense of humor SM brings to his music - I don't think EJ brings that. Finally, SM is an exceptional classical player and if you've seen his live solo show he plays just beautifully.

:agree

What he said;)

[cugel]

the long and short of it would be "no. never." i bet he wears zubaz too

http://www.goodlookin.tv/news/zubaz_ful.jpgDoes Steve Morse *ever* cover up his biceps? :D