The economy: where can I get a non biased opinion on how this happened?

[straticus]

This is not a political thread and I don't want it to turn into a political thread!

I friend and I were talking about what's going on with the economy and neither of us could agree on why or how this happened. We weren't arguing, just discussing.

So, where can I go to get a non biased run down on how this started, where it started, who started it and who, if any one, tried to stop or warn about it?

It would probably be best if I could just get a link or two to another site that has this info vs. talking about it here.

[glahnb]

At this point it might be impossible. Everyone wants to blame someone else. There's a ton of "reasons" and an equal amount of rebuttals to those reasons.

[hogy]

Here:

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355

[trisonic]

Jeez, I just got back from doing some shopping and New Jersey is even more crazy than usual. Mobs of shoppers, parking lots full etc., etc. Gas is $1.85 per gallon..........
I had to keep pinching myself (or at least listen to talk radio for a bit - NOT)!

Best, Pete.

[jtm622]

There are no unbiased and apolitical opinions as to how this happened to the economy...

P.S.- You may not want this thread to turn political, but I can just about guarantee you that it will...

[XKnight]

Greed!

[Suproman77]

I couldn't even begin to describe how this all started if I didn't get political. The two are inseperable, unfortunately.

[DiazDude]

Impossible to do.

[AaeCee]

The answer is simply...you can't.

[StJimmy]

The root cause is the human species imperfection which manifests itself in greed, power, desire, lust, and the unintelligent decisions it can cause....even among individuals and institutions with overall good intentions. Throw those in a bowl of free enterprise and a culture that has evolved into immediate gratification without sacrifice, remorse or perceived consequences, and stir well.

Remember, "most" of what transpired that brought us here today was not illegal. It was unwise, many times unethical, and sometimes illegal on a very small scale. The illegal situations caused by some parties were not material enough to have prevented the current situation from occurring. It just makes it more egregious and gives people a poster child to rant against.

Answer this. The star highschool football player is driving his car on a long straightaway comes over a dangerous hill that has been the focus of many horrific accidents in the past. He's driving slightly under the speed limit, but it's dark and he is in a hurry because he doesn't want to get in trouble by his parents. The posted speed limit seems excessive to many people given the hill and history. The county has discussed smoothing out the hill but can't seem to work it into their budget. The young man comes over the hill and hits a cyclist riding without reflective clothing. The cyclist's small light on the bike has quit working due to a defective part.

Who's fault is it?
The kid for not recognizing that he should slow down MORE given the darkness and hill?
His parents who should have taught him better judgment about slowing down at night?
The police who weren't patrolling this road and acting as a deterrent even though they know it's a danger zone?
The county who didn't make changes to the speed limit or road topography given the history?
The cyclist who didn't use prudent decisions about when he rode or what he wore?
The bicycle light company who's product quit working before the warranty expired?
The subcontractor who made the part that quit working in the bike light?

Seems nothing truly illegal transpired, but there are plenty of ethical and judgment questions here. Yet, the bottom line is that the cyclist is dead, his family is devastated and their lives are changed forever. The driver is also devastated and ends up taking his life, which changes HIS family forever. The town is angry, hurt, and confused. A myriad of bad choices all came together to create a tragic situation.
Yeah, people will be sued and fault assessed and quantified through some judgment sent down by a jury or judge, but that's not the same thing. It's not a preventative measure.

Plenty of blame to go around in our current situation. Government bodies, financial institutions, regulators, private investors, .... all driven by individual or collective HUMAN judgments, that have to be decided within a framework set up by whatever entity they are part of..... be it Congress, executive branch, corporate, regulatory, municipality, mom & pop investment club or even family. It's just the human condition playing out. Sucks, don't it.

And as with many tragedies, innocent people get hurt.

[Mark C]

It's everyone's fault. Not just corporate mentality, not just politicians, and not just the individual. Outsourcing, Overspending, Greed, Cronyism, Special Interests, Bad Lending Practices, Individual Stupidity.........It's a pretty big list, and IMO, the only reason people are arguing is because nobody ever wants to admit their part in all of this.

[908SSP]

It's everyone's fault. Not just corporate mentality, not just politicians, and not just the individual. Outsourcing, Overspending, Greed, Cronyism, Special Interests, Bad Lending Practices, Individual Stupidity.........It's a pretty big list, and IMO, the only reason people are arguing is because nobody ever wants to admit their part in all of this.


:agreeI have to agree with this.

The route cause is the lack of real growth of Wealth. Wealth = Energy x Intelligence. When real growth happens it is reflected in all levels of society. When redistribution happens someone gets hurt. When you try and force growth and ignore the basic equation you end up with a realignment which is what we are experiencing now.

[Blue Strat]

It's everyone's fault. Not just corporate mentality, not just politicians, and not just the individual. Outsourcing, Overspending, Greed, Cronyism, Special Interests, Bad Lending Practices, Individual Stupidity.........It's a pretty big list, and IMO, the only reason people are arguing is because nobody ever wants to admit their part in all of this.


I agree that there's a lot of blame to go around. But people who live within their means, pay their bills, don't use credit stupidly, don't work in the loan origination or home appraisal field, don't work on Wall Street and don't work in the government probably aren't to blame. :)

[stevieboy]

There's no such thing as a non biased opinion.

[Mike Anderson]

Remember, "most" of what transpired that brought us here today was not illegal. It was unwise, many times unethical, and sometimes illegal on a very small scale. The illegal situations caused by some parties were not material enough to have prevented the current situation from occurring. It just makes it more egregious and gives people a poster child to rant against.


I have to disagree with this. I think there was a great deal of materially criminal behavior.

Let's start with the "Liar Loans". It was extremely common for people to mis-state their income and assets on mortgage applications. It was also common for their brokers to assist them in it. This is just blatant, garden-variety fraud, and there was a lot of it.

Now let's look at the rating agencies, e.g. Moody's, etc., who rated the securities "AAA" and so forth, thereby encouraging large entities and pension funds to buy into them. There is strong evidence that these analysts knew the securities they were rating were really crap. (Have you seen any of these emails?) Yet they depended for their fees on giving overly-optimistic ratings, so they did just that. This is criminal fraud on a slightly more complicated level (e.g. securities fraud), but it's criminal nonetheless.

Those are just two examples we know about. I'd be willing to bet that there are hundreds of thousands of emails out there that will show many, many people in power knew exactly what was going to happen, but defrauded their way through it for the short-term bucks. Add in civil liability (basically negligence), and the illegality is absolutely massive.

Unfortunately, the DOJ has decided not to make these crimes a priority... Something like 150 FBI agents nationally are devoted to it -- that's nothing. It's absolutely despicable, if you ask me.

[Blue Strat]

This is mostly for entertainment, but also factual if not all encompassing. It's a Power Point Presentation. It's worth hanging in til the end.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/250wfl

[eBay]

The economy: where can I get a non biased opinion on how this happened?

This is not a political thread and I don't want it to turn into a political thread!

I friend and I were talking about what's going on with the economy and neither of us could agree on why or how this happened. We weren't arguing, just discussing.

So, where can I go to get a non biased run down on how this started, where it started, who started it and who, if any one, tried to stop or warn about it?

It would probably be best if I could just get a link or two to another site that has this info vs. talking about it here.

Check out the movie In Debt We Trust. You'll find a lot of answers in this well made documentary.

There's actually no need for this thread to go political. Most of our issues are about unethical loan practices going on right now. There are three major factors--billions of dollars being siphoned off in interest by credit card companies, loan companies deliberately targeting the poor (aka Poverty Inc.), and runaway consumerism.

[hogy]

I guess none of you guys listened the the story at the link I provided. Oh well...

[Dave Orban]

In the end, though, it does all go back to greed.

[bigkahuna2u]

The short answer:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-8-fed-money-creation

The long answer:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

[guitarstan]

Ah yes, the ever so enlightened mobs.....;)

[Blue Strat]

Ah yes, the ever so enlightened mobs.....;)

...as opposed to what? ;)

[scoob]

Posting this again...I posted it in the wall street thread too, this is a great read and seems pretty unbiased (it's from the perspective of a guy that is trying to figure out what's going on and why when all the speculating and shorting was/is going on).

http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom?tid=true

[straticus]

I guess none of you guys listened the the story at the link I provided. Oh well...

I will check it out. I'm waiting until I have time set aside. Thanks for posting the link.

There's no such thing as a non biased opinion.

Agreed. I'd like to stick to "Just the facts" as much as possible. No political ranting, as it's not allowed here. On the other hand, isn't it possible to state a fact with out stating your opinion about it? But you're right, in the title I did ask for an opinion, not facts. I should have worded that differently.

[Droptop]

Consumer demand created a need for risky loan programs. This heated up to a point where banks become leveraged as much as 30 to 1. A majority of the loans were stated subprime loans that collapsed as rates are readjusted from the initial teaser rates to "normal" rates. The problem being that many people maxed their purchasing power on the initial teaser rate without putting virtually any money down. Rates adjust, people become upside down on their loans and the only way out is short sale or foreclosure. Only problem, in most cases there is little to no money down, so banks are stuck with losses. One or two losses, no problem, multiply that by thousands of loans...major problem. Banks are leveraged to the hilt with assets that are selling at a loss. Carry that up the chain and you get a global financial collapse. Whose to blame? The banks. Regulations should have been in place to not allow no loan docs and to require 10-20% equity to secure loans. We should have all seen the writing on the wall when interest only loans reared their ugly heads.

[Big Boss Man]

Most of the blame should go to former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan. He kept interest rates artifically low after the dot com bubble burst. We should have taken our medicine then. Instead another (the housing) bubble was created. Low interest rates is what made all those subprime loans possible. In all fairness Greenspan was under political pressure from both sides to do what he did, but still he deserves more of the blame than any other one person.

[eBay]

I guess none of you guys listened the the story at the link I provided. Oh well...

I got to it finally.

That NIVA/NINA loan they talked about works like this: Loan companies learned an interesting thing a few years back. That is that the very poor always try to pay they debts. So you find a large group of poor folks who need cars and houses and you loan them money. They start to make their payments but very quickly many find themselves unable to pay. They begin to fall behind on payments and then the bank/loan company repossesses. The bank wins because they've now extracted a bunch of money out of these folks and they now have the original assets to sell again.

The game also encourages those wanting loans to lie. The is a powerful temptation and many do. What it means is that the borrower is almost for sure going to get in over their heads.

They talk about common sense but the actual game is very shrewd and makes perfect sense.

[ripvanwinkle]

I'll take a shot at it...

the world started to industrialize more

new economys started increasing their gross national product generating money

the U.S. dollar was seen by the world as a safe place to invest

the treasury floated more treasury bonds to park other nations money that they wanted to invest

the money went into the US banking system

interest rates were reduced and left to remain low for too long

credit became easy to come by...this can be a great thing if the credit is used to generate profit producing assets. (i.e. if you spend trillions of dollars on an east west bullet train that people pay money to ride)

too much of the capital was destroyed over the past 10 years (late 90s internet bubble, financing war, too many houses, way too much retail development)

a lot of production was farmed out to other countries because labor was cheaper

the U.S. economy was increasingly fueled by consumer spending paid for on credit and bubble wealth (home increases, stock market gains) simply put a lot of our economy was a sham, financed with borrowed money from other nations

cheap leases let you buy expensive cars for 24 or 36 months, home equity lines let you buy luxury goods etc, widespread credit card issuance, etc

this is important: access to cheap capital whether through wall street or commercial banks, and little oversite, allowed certain bankers to go on a spending spree. they issued massive loans across all sectors and credit classes and their earnings grew, their stock price went up and they used that stock to buy other banks. the conservative banks needed to either play the easy credit game too, or risk getting swallowed by the wachovia and washington mutual types as the disparity in stock valuation increased. investors were too short sighted and let the wachovia and wamu stock go up because it SEEMED like the ability to bundle loans and get credit insurance defused the risk of lower credit quality

again, easy credit and lack of oversite allowed too much leverage in the system. congress was lobbied to increase the amount of leverage banks could carry. i believe they pointed to other countries leverage limits and used the "we need to be competitive" excuse. i know exactly who lobbied for it, but to keep it non-political lets just say it happened.

as credit got easy the price of the assets purchased with easy money increased, primarily real estate, residential and commercial. so like anything, you reach a point where trees do not grow to the sky, and the prices of homes stalled and the crazy credit terms came to roost when they could not be sold for a profit or refinanced. now you have the downward deflation spiral we are experiencing right now and people are frozen.

(this is my opinion) the fed knows the only way out of this mess is massive inflation..massive inflation. to the point where the dollar you hold now may be worth 50 to 60 cents in 10 years or less. they will pump money in the system to get it going. housing is too expensive. without increases in wages people will not be able to qualify under tighter credit. inflation helps debtors. if you have a 10 trillion dollar debt its easier to pay oof you can inflate your way out of it and make it seem like it's only 5 trillion.

I'm starting to ramble. sorry. there are ways out of this, a simple 3 point plan can get us out, but it will take work and compromise. i don't think we as a nation have the ability to come to terms, do the tough thing and get it done, congress doesnt work that way. japan did it the wrong way and are still suffering many years later. propping things up doesn't work.

it will be difficult, but it's not time to buy a cow and start farming your land. (unless you want to), but it is time to retrench, and start working hard again. commit capital to the correct projects that will create jobs and generate a return on investment. time for many to roll up their sleeves and get to work

[samarshll]

This guy predicted this in 2006 and he was ridiculed for it. I think the reasons he sites make a lot of sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o

[Mike Anderson]

I guess none of you guys listened the the story at the link I provided. Oh well...

I heard it. It's a very good explanation for the lay person. However, this is an incredibly complicated subject, and there's only so much you can explain in a 1-hour radio show.

[Droptop]

Most of the blame should go to former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan. He kept interest rates artifically low after the dot com bubble burst. We should have taken our medicine then. Instead another (the housing) bubble was created. Low interest rates is what made all those subprime loans possible. In all fairness Greenspan was under political pressure from both sides to do what he did, but still he deserves more of the blame than any other one person.

Low interest rates don't account for poor loan procedures on the banks part. No doc loans and interest rate only with less than 5 % should not have been allowed. I still say the corporate greed of banks caused this one.

[Greggy]

I have to disagree with this. I think there was a great deal of materially criminal behavior.

Let's start with the "Liar Loans". It was extremely common for people to mis-state their income and assets on mortgage applications. It was also common for their brokers to assist them in it. This is just blatant, garden-variety fraud, and there was a lot of it.

Now let's look at the rating agencies, e.g. Moody's, etc., who rated the securities "AAA" and so forth, thereby encouraging large entities and pension funds to buy into them. There is strong evidence that these analysts knew the securities they were rating were really crap. (Have you seen any of these emails?) Yet they depended for their fees on giving overly-optimistic ratings, so they did just that. This is criminal fraud on a slightly more complicated level (e.g. securities fraud), but it's criminal nonetheless.

Those are just two examples we know about. I'd be willing to bet that there are hundreds of thousands of emails out there that will show many, many people in power knew exactly what was going to happen, but defrauded their way through it for the short-term bucks. Add in civil liability (basically negligence), and the illegality is absolutely massive.

Unfortunately, the DOJ has decided not to make these crimes a priority... Something like 150 FBI agents nationally are devoted to it -- that's nothing. It's absolutely despicable, if you ask me.

I am in general agreement with the alleged complicity stated above. Yes, the devil is in the email. Electronic discovery consultants may earn a fortune here.:D

[Big Boss Man]

Low interest rates don't account for poor loan procedures on the banks part.

Sure they do. The lower the rate the bank pays, the more risk they can take on loans. When times were good, the lower rate banks paid was more than enough to offset failed loans. Additionally, Greenspan and the Fed lowered rates to the point where real interest rates (nominal rate - inflation rate) were negative. Negative real interest rates never lead to rational lending and borrowing decisions. It always ends in disaster. You would think someone who is in charge of the Federal Reserve would understand this.

[Big Boss Man]

One other thing I forgot to mention about Greenspan is that in a 2004 speech he actually encouraged people to take out adjustable rate mortgages instead of safer, more traditional fixed rate mortages. From his 2004 speech: "Indeed, recent research within the Federal Reserve suggests that many homeowners might have saved tens of thousands of dollars had they held adjustable-rate mortgages rather than fixed-rate mortgages during the past decade". Remember now, this was from the chairman of the Federal Reserve. The bad decisions started with well informed people at the top and trickled down to ordinary people who did not know any better.

[hogy]

I heard it. It's a very good explanation for the lay person. However, this is an incredibly complicated subject, and there's only so much you can explain in a 1-hour radio show.

Oh, it's not comprehensive coverage of the issue by a long shot. But since the OP asked for an unbiased explanation, this program came to mind. I find it very balanced and non sensationalistic.

[Mike Anderson]

I am in general agreement with the alleged complicity stated above. Yes, the devil is in the email. Electronic discovery consultants may earn a fortune here.:D

Not if the DOJ sits around too long.

Put your head out the window and listen carefully -- you hear that whirring and clicking sound?

That's the sound of millions of emails getting deleted and files getting shredded.

[camitchell]

I would recommend a movie called "The Corporation"


http://www.thecorporation.com/


and a book called "The Creature from Jekyll Island"


http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986212



Watch the movie, read the book and I think you'll have a good insight on why things are headed in the direction they are.


.

[Mike Anderson]

Oh, it's not comprehensive coverage of the issue by a long shot. But since the OP asked for an unbiased explanation, this program came to mind. I find it very balanced and non sensationalistic.

I agree, it's very good for that. It's also quite entertaining. TAL is one of my favorite radio shows.

[Mike Anderson]

Another entertaining piece, from the author of Liar's Poker: This is a great read. (http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom#page1)

[camitchell]

Low interest rates don't account for poor loan procedures on the banks part. No doc loans and interest rate only with less than 5 % should not have been allowed. I still say the corporate greed of banks caused this one.


Keep in mind, that those bundled mortgages are not totally worthless yet. Although there are a lot of people being foreclosed on, it's too early to tell if the "toxic mortgages" are truly toxic.

I'm guessing someone will be buying them up at pennies on the dollar and making for fortune in the next decade. But that is just a guess..... however, I'm certain there is a lot going on behind the curtain these days that the media is not reporting on at all.... as usual.

[triple_vee]

Here:

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355

And here is the follow up...

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1263

[brlfq]

Here's an unbiased opinion: (whether it's correct or not is debateable)

Lots of folks decided that (scratch that) they forgot that what goes up must come down. Business cycles up and down. It's been going on forever. There has been some serious gambling going on in financial circles and that contributed to the problem. A law was passed in 2000 IIRC that encouraged mortgage companies to loan money to folks who previously were not qualified to borrow the amounts they have been borrowing. This contributed to a run up in housing costs. Now that folks can't borrow as much, houses aren't selling.

Gas went up because the financial folks were using oil like it was just a commodity and not a necessity for the world's machines. Gas doubled in price in a few months and it scared us regular old folks. We started figuring out that a trip to the mall cost $12 just for the gas! (60 mile round trip at 20mpg) Then we started to cut back on everything. When everybody started cutting back, the churning that kept the money flowing stopped so there was less money to loan to folks who wanted to buy stuff. There was less money to loan to businesses who had become dependent on borrowing to finance day to day affairs. And then. .. whoops! Everybody got scared and stopped buying stock. (The stock market has been at it's highest EVER for several years now. Is anybody really all that surprised that it has had a reversal! Come on!)

You can count on my opinion. I learned all this stuff on the Gear Page.

This, too, shall pass.

[joemesser]

I think one of the simplest ways to understand what's happening is to just see that there rampant de-leveraging going on. Banks, companies, individuals, govt's, currencies, etc, are all leveraged out to the hilt, and that's collapsing. Greed drives it (massive leveraging) and it can only go so far.

This is a massive wealth transfer scheme, we're getting hosed, hardcore. Same old same old, but on an unbelievably audacious level.

[jtm622]

...The bad decisions started with well informed people at the top and trickled down to ordinary people who did not know any better.

So "ordinary" people are not well informed and don't know "know any better"?

Man, I don't even know where to begin...

[Droptop]

Sure they do. The lower the rate the bank pays, the more risk they can take on loans. When times were good, the lower rate banks paid was more than enough to offset failed loans. Additionally, Greenspan and the Fed lowered rates to the point where real interest rates (nominal rate - inflation rate) were negative. Negative real interest rates never lead to rational lending and borrowing decisions. It always ends in disaster. You would think someone who is in charge of the Federal Reserve would understand this.

The more risk THEY can take on loans. Responsibility falls on the bank.

[Jagsound]

So "ordinary" people are not well informed and don't know "know any better"?

Man, I don't even know where to begin...

You can't deny that at least 50% of any society wouldn't have a clue about the economy, don't want to know about it, and will never have any interest in it. Yes I pulled that 50% figure out of my arse, but it's roughly based on observations of people I meet and a comparison of the ratio of university students that study eco/finance versus those studying the many other university disciplines.

When you think about it, why should everybody have to bother with a load of boring economic claptrap? The system relies on there being a bunch of people who just do a decent job, get paid then go spend time with their families and friends and spend their wages on the goods and services provided in the economy. It is fundamental to the operation of any economy or society.

[Traintrack]

Do you really think that you are being told the facts concerning the collapse of the worlds financial markets?


The Federal Reserve uses the Fed Funds rates to attempt to control inflation and increase consumer spending. (Among other things.)

They made borrowing money so cheap that people just took it and ran. This created every bubble that occurred in the last 35 years.

Cheap money (low interest rates) was the start of all the problems that we are facing.

I am glad that most people (90%) do not know the extent of this present situation. There would be total panic world wide. I would like to take this time to beg all of the folks here that have children to take care of to start adding up the historical events that are happening each day. There is no fix, we are spinning into a situation that no one has any idea on how to correct.

There is no way on earth that we can ever pay back the money that is owed by the US Government. It's not 700 billion it's 2.5+ Trillion.

Credit Card defaults will blow your mind in the next 12-24 months.

Remember the biggest market in the world is the US Real Estate Market

Alt-A real estate loans (Liar loans) are just now being reset. California will be the center focal point of these toxic loans. You will hear about this soon. There will be no way to cover it up. Google it.

The Government is working full time to curve and calm the General Public. That is why most people do not have a clue as to how bad it really is. It is about to really get ugly. The tip of the problem has just started this fall. Wait for the main event. It will change your life forever.

[Traintrack]

The more risk THEY can take on loans. Responsibility falls on the bank.


100% correct!

If the bank lends me 10 bucks it is my problem
If a bank lends me 50 million, it is their problem.

[The Pipast]

Greed! Biased/unbiased,really doesn't matter...this one word post pretty much nails it! :bow

[Seditious]

Another entertaining piece, from the author of Liar's Poker: This is a great read. (http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom#page1)

That was fascinating Mike. And I found a way to understand most of it. It's like one of those Multi-level marketing schemes, They don't even know what they're selling or that they're ripping people off.

[Droptop]

Has anyone had a chance to read George Soros's latest book? He was predicting this, just curious if he had any potential solutions.

[arthur rotfeld]

I guess none of you guys listened the the story at the link I provided. Oh well...

I've been listening. Seems accurate to me and a must listen.

[triple_vee]

I've been listening. Seems accurate to me and a must listen.
i've been recommending the "this american life" program for a while now.

to all newcomers to this post, if you're reading this post, do yourself a favor and click the link posted by hogy on page 1.

[Jagsound]

100% correct!

If the bank lends me 10 bucks it is my problem
If a bank lends me 50 million, it is their problem.

That is actually very nicely put and easy to understand!

However, when it comes to mortgages the bank lends because they know they can take your house and sell it, but when bubbles burst, is the bank expected to be able to predict that? No, not accurately anyway, but we would expect an institution holding itself out as having lending and financial/economic expertise to be able to take a longer term view and manage the business so that it does well in the booms and also does ok in the downturns. Some institutions in the economy who hold enough resources to affect the overall health of the system have let everyone down - they are either incompetent or they are criminals.

[arthur rotfeld]

i've been recommending the "this american life" program for a while now.

to all to comers to this post, if you're reading this post, do yourself a favor and click the link posted by hogy on page 1.

I'm a big NPR listener/supporter and this is one of their best programs, I'm surprised I missed this and the follow up:


http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1263

[hogy]

Thanks for posting a link to the follow up show. I'd heard it on the radio, but somehow couldn't find it on their website.

"This American Life" is an excellent show, I always look forward to listening to it on a Sunday afternoon, along with "Radio Lab".

[Dickie Fredericks]

I predict it will get worse. Rich folks arent generally stupid. They know whats coming. You should too.