The hardest thing to be in life is...

[Suproman77]

...yourself.

Discuss.

[Bones]

disagree

[mge80]

Not for me. Maybe it took the better part of my life to understand that it is pointless to try and be what you think others WANT you to be, and just be yourself. Those who don't like you for it are those who you wouldn't want in your life anyway.

[Midnight Lady]

Not for me. Maybe it took the better part of my life to understand that it is pointless to try and be what you think others WANT you to be, and just be yourself. Those who don't like you for it are those who you wouldn't want in your life anyway.+1000 It took me the better part of my life to come to this conclusion but it's now my life philosophy. I am what I am. While I try to be the best that I am, I'm not going to change for anyone. The people who love you, love you for who you are. It is counter-productive to pretend to be something you're not.

It was a difficult journey to get to this point but it is so entirely comfortable that I'm sorry I wasted so many years trying to please other people. In the end, you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror, but that should be your only criteria for life.

[Suproman77]

Not for me. Maybe it took the better part of my life to understand that it is pointless to try and be what you think others WANT you to be, and just be yourself. Those who don't like you for it are those who you wouldn't want in your life anyway.

+1000 It took me the better part of my life to come to this conclusion but it's now my life philosophy. I am what I am. While I try to be the best that I am, I'm not going to change for anyone. The people who love you, love you for who you are. It is counter-productive to pretend to be something you're not.

It was a difficult journey to get to this point but it is so entirely comfortable that I'm sorry I wasted so many years trying to please other people. In the end, you need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror, but that should be your only criteria for life.

You're proving that saying true.

[Lawn Jockey]

........a crack dealer in a meth world.

[scottlr]

it is if you are a married man :D They're always trying to make you change. I ain't broke, quit tryin to fix me.

[Hootad Binky]

"I wouldn't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member." - Groucho Marx :)

[mge80]

You're proving that saying true.

Maybe. Maybe not. I have faced far more difficult challenges in my life than this one. While it may have taken a while for the light to come on, once it did, it definitely was not the "hardest thing in life". It might have been difficult to learn, but not to do. There IS a difference.

[lcjc800]

How would someone actually experience any other way? :huh

[JLaps]

How would someone actually experience any other way? :huh
I was just thinking this. Even if you try to act like someone else, you're still putting your own spin on things, whether you want to or not.

[Shine]

Humble

[Stratofuzz]

Honesty=enlightenment=truth
You must know who you are, to become your true self.

[Sadhaka]

Although I shouldn't speak for the OP, I think that in essence the OP's statement refers to yourself as being in complete contact with the 'consciousness' that drives you as opposed to the identity that you hold for yourself.

Are not these two things, although stunningly intertwined, completely different? The thing that drives you is a strange phenomenon - a silent observer - and your identity is what is challenged by opinions of others and your egoic ideas as to how you are. The identity can be challenged because it is a construct of the mind but the 'driver' can not.

Strangely, the thing that drives you has no real response to joy or sorrow. As an aside, reading through the thread titled "Crazy, Wierd and Trippy Once in a Lifetime Experiences" there seem to be a few examples when this has taken over the predominant consciousness of the individual. I always find it astounding when I read about these kind of experiences.

There is a writer named Eckhart Tolle who describes this condition well.

Another idea that I really love comes from the teachings of Sai Baba:

There are three aspects to who you are - That which you think you are; that which others think you are; and that which you truly are.

From this standpoint we are faced with a double edged sword. It is very hard to be yourself when the first two get in the way but paradoxically you can not be anything but yourself...

[Midnight Lady]

Another idea that I really love comes from the teachings of Sai Baba: There are three aspects to who you are - That which you think you are; that which others think you are; and that which you truly are..

If you are true to yourself, to your instincts, to your likes and dislikes, to your talents and gifts, then these three people will be all the same.

When you're young, you try to be the "good kid" that your parents encourage. You want to please them, please your teachers, please your friends -- so you alter your behavior to fit each situation.

Ultimately it is an exhausting and pointless exercise.

Mge80 was right when he said it was difficult to learn but not to do. It is indeed like a light coming on.

What people think of how I look, the house I live in, the car I drive and or my fashion sense matters exactly zero. These are unimportant.

[Suproman77]

Although I shouldn't speak for the OP, I think that in essence the OP's statement refers to yourself as being in complete contact with the 'consciousness' that drives you as opposed to the identity that you hold for yourself.

Are not these two things, although stunningly intertwined, completely different? The thing that drives you is a strange phenomenon - a silent observer - and your identity is what is challenged by opinions of others and your egoic ideas as to how you are. The identity can be challenged because it is a construct of the mind but the 'driver' can not.

Strangely, the thing that drives you has no real response to joy or sorrow. As an aside, reading through the thread titled "Crazy, Wierd and Trippy Once in a Lifetime Experiences" there seem to be a few examples when this has taken over the predominant consciousness of the individual. I always find it astounding when I read about these kind of experiences.

There is a writer named Eckhart Tolle who describes this condition well.

Another idea that I really love comes from the teachings of Sai Baba:

There are three aspects to who you are - That which you think you are; that which others think you are; and that which you truly are.

From this standpoint we are faced with a double edged sword. It is very hard to be yourself when the first two get in the way but paradoxically you can not be anything but yourself...

Very insightful...interesting.

What if I was to say this....Those that truly know themselves and live as themselves would never utter the words, 'I don't care what anyone else thinks of me.' What possible desire could saying that fullfill? Who is that person trying to convince and why would they care?

[Sadhaka]

If you are true to yourself, to your instincts, to your likes and dislikes, to your talents and gifts, then these three people will be all the same.

When you're young, you try to be the "good kid" that your parents encourage. You want to please them, please your teachers, please your friends -- so you alter your behavior to fit each situation.

Ultimately it is an exhausting and pointless exercise.

Mge80 was right when he said it was difficult to learn but not to do. It is indeed like a light coming on.

What people think of how I look, the house I live in, the car I drive and or my fashion sense matters exactly zero. These are unimportant.

Nice action Midnight Lady ;) I like your style.

Although I think we are on the same page, I might contend that these things do matter to the extent that they matter to the person that you think you are. Also I might revise that the light is always on. The synthesis that you speak of is rare at the moment because many people have their wants and needs in the way.

Don't children who act a certain way to evoke a response from their environment grow up to be adults who do the same thing? Pavlov's dogs syndrome in reverse... Many of us are just rattling a bell and salivating from the experience.

"What people think of how I look, the house I live in, the car I drive and or my fashion sense matters exactly zero". Does how you look, where you live etc matter to you? Do how 'they' look etc matter to you? (I mean 'you' as any reader of this thread - not necessarily you, Midnight Lady).

Does the reader of this post truly have no emotional/mental response to the race, religion, caste or action of another individual aside from a situation that may cause you or your family physical harm?

[Sadhaka]

Very insightful...interesting.

What if I was to say this....Those that truly know themselves and live as themselves would never utter the words, 'I don't care what anyone else thinks of me.' What possible desire could saying that fullfill? Who is that person trying to convince and why would they care?

That is awesome, and I think very true.

The above comment asserts affirmation to the "Person that you think you are". It strengthens the idea that their position in life is worthwhile.

The self probably does not care. It does observe. One who knew thyself would know thy neighbor as themselves. They would recognise any other object as being the same as to themselves.

I know we shouldn't discuss religion but here we go...

Nameste! The divine in me recognises the divine in you.

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

[Midnight Lady]

Those that truly know themselves and live as themselves would never utter the words, 'I don't care what anyone else thinks of me.' What possible desire could saying that fullfill? Who is that person trying to convince and why would they care?I said that because when I realized that's how I felt it was a revelation. And a tremendous relief at the same time. Not trying to convince anyone, just relating my experience and "epiphany".

Nice action Midnight Lady ;) I like your style.

thank you!!!Although I think we are on the same page, I might contend that these things do matter to the extent that they matter to the person that you think you are. Also I might revise that the light is always on. The synthesis that you speak of is rare at the moment because many people have their wants and needs in the way.

Don't children who act a certain way to evoke a response from their environment grow up to be adults who do the same thing? Pavlov's dogs syndrome in reverse... Many of us are just rattling a bell and salivating from the experience.

"What people think of how I look, the house I live in, the car I drive and or my fashion sense matters exactly zero". Does how you look, where you live etc matter to you? Do how 'they' look etc matter to you? (I mean 'you' as any reader of this thread - not necessarily you, Midnight Lady).

Does the reader of this post truly have no emotional/mental response to the race, religion, caste or action of another individual aside from a situation that may cause you or your family physical harm?Children behaving in a certain way is called manipulation, yes? If they are good, they get hugs and kisses. If they are bad, they don't, but they still get attention - and this is often the purpose.

If I have an emotional/mental response to people of different race, religion, caste, or their actions, it is a knee-jerk learned or perhaps absorbed from the beliefs of others. So I'm careful to really look at the reaction and see if I have any personal experience with these differences. If not, I disregard them.

Does how you look, where you live etc matter to you?

Essentially what I was trying to say here is that I am in no way a social climber. I don't need the "bigger" house or the "better" car and I don't claim to read certain books, drink certain coffee or prefer certain scotch just to make an impression on those around me. Actually, I like horror books, Tim Horton's coffee and I dislike scotch. This is who I am. If there are people who look down their nose at what I like or who I am, it says more about them than it does about me.

(yes we're on the same page, simply expressing it in a different way. I did not "research" how to behave, I simply look within and see how I feel and what I believe. If it does not fall into an acceptable slot or pigeon-hole, oh well).

[Sadhaka]

I said that because when I realized that's how I felt it was a revelation. And a tremendous relief at the same time. Not trying to convince anyone, just relating my experience and "epiphany".

Children behaving in a certain way is called manipulation, yes? If they are good, they get hugs and kisses. If they are bad, they don't, but they still get attention - and this is often the purpose.

If I have an emotional/mental response to people of different race, religion, caste, or their actions, it is a knee-jerk learned or perhaps absorbed from the beliefs of others. So I'm careful to really look at the reaction and see if I have any personal experience with these differences. If not, I disregard them.

Does how you look, where you live etc matter to you?

Essentially what I was trying to say here is that I am in no way a social climber. I don't need the "bigger" house or the "better" car and I don't claim to read certain books, drink certain coffee or prefer certain scotch just to make an impression on those around me. Actually, I like horror books, Tim Horton's coffee and I dislike scotch. This is who I am. If there are people who look down their nose at what I like or who I am, it says more about them than it does about me.

(yes we're on the same page, simply expressing it in a different way. I did not "research" how to behave, I simply look within and see how I feel and what I believe. If it does not fall into an acceptable slot or pigeon-hole, oh well).

Again, I think that is some sweet, sweet action ;)

[Suproman77]

I said that because when I realized that's how I felt it was a revelation. And a tremendous relief at the same time. Not trying to convince anyone, just relating my experience and "epiphany".

:D

Oh, I was only tuggin' on your ponytail with that one, Midnight. Admit it, I had you :huh for a minute, didn't I?

:p

[Midnight Lady]

*POUT* you meant it!!!!

But yes, you had me. And it's ok anyway if you feel that way. Last time I checked, you were entitled to your opinion and it doesn't have to be the same as mine.













(but smarten up, eh?)

:D

[Suproman77]

For the purposes of this discussion, we should try to seperate the ideas of self as there is more than one.

The way I look at it, there are two versions of 'self' that could apply here. First, there's the eastern philosophical self that is an egoless, selfless, perfection that wants for nothing and only desires peace and happyness for all. Then, there's the western version of 'self' which refers to an idea that no one else's opinion matters. A person true to themselves is not influenced by peer pressure, but rather seeks to rise above the needs of social conformity no matter the cost.

Now, there are some areas of overlap in this. The western version of self may very well be the eastern philsophical ideal, but doesn't have to be. In fact, this version of self may be the total opposite in some cases...a lying, thieving, thoughtless, careless person that only wants for themselves and couldn't care for anyone else, but if that is how a person truly is, then that's who they are.

Make sense?

[Suproman77]

*POUT* you meant it!!!!

But yes, you had me. And it's ok anyway if you feel that way. Last time I checked, you were entitled to your opinion and it doesn't have to be the same as mine.

(but smarten up, eh?)

:D

Haha, I sure will try, but I can't promise you anything. :rotflmao

[mge80]

For the purposes of this discussion, we should try to seperate the ideas of self as there is more than one.

The way I look at it, there are two versions of 'self' that could apply here. First, there's the eastern philosophical self that is an egoless, selfless, perfection that wants for nothing and only desires peace and happyness for all. Then, there's the western version of 'self' which refers to an idea that no one else's opinion matters. A person true to themselves is not influenced by peer pressure, but rather seeks to rise above the needs of social conformity no matter the cost.

Now, there are some areas of overlap in this. The western version of self may very well be the eastern philsophical ideal, but doesn't have to be. In fact, this version of self may be the total opposite in some cases...a lying, thieving, thoughtless, careless person that only wants for themselves and couldn't care for anyone else, but if that is how a person truly is, then that's who they are.

Make sense?

Sure. Just like this makes sense...

The Zen philosopher Basha once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish.'

[Suproman77]

Sure. Just like this makes sense...

The Zen philosopher Basha once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish.'

A flute with no holes is a.....tube.

:D

[Midnight Lady]

For the purposes of this discussion, we should try to seperate the ideas of self as there is more than one.

The way I look at it, there are two versions of 'self' that could apply here. First, there's the eastern philosophical self that is an egoless, selfless, perfection that wants for nothing and only desires peace and happyness for all. Then, there's the western version of 'self' which refers to an idea that no one else's opinion matters. A person true to themselves is not influenced by peer pressure, but rather seeks to rise above the needs of social conformity no matter the cost.

Now, there are some areas of overlap in this. The western version of self may very well be the eastern philsophical ideal, but doesn't have to be. In fact, this version of self may be the total opposite in some cases...a lying, thieving, thoughtless, careless person that only wants for themselves and couldn't care for anyone else, but if that is how a person truly is, then that's who they are.

Make sense?Interesting. As you said, the truth likely lies somewhere between these two philosophies. We like to think of ourselves as "wanting for nothing, peace, happiness" but most are not.

I know several of the people you refer to in your last paragraph ("a lying, thieving, thoughtless, careless person that only wants for themselves and couldn't care for anyone else"). But they are NOT friends of mine!!! :rotflmao

[swa]

Sure. Just like this makes sense...

The Zen philosopher Basha once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish.'


Well said, or quoted:agree

[Suproman77]

Interesting. As you said, the truth likely lies somewhere between these two philosophies. We like to think of ourselves as "wanting for nothing, peace, happiness" but most are not.

I know several of the people you refer to in your last paragraph. But they are NOT friends of mine!!! :rotflmao

Haha, yeah I know a few of them, too! They're lurking around this forum somewhere as we speak.

:hide

:p

[phoenix 7]

I think a lot of people don't even realize the difference between being who you are and being who the world wants you to be. It's not as easy to discern as some people may think. That's because we're programmed from an early age (through TV, the media, movies, parents, teachers, peers, etc.) to be who the world wants us to be. We think that who others want us to be is who we really are. Many people genuinely WANT to be what others want because they really want others' approval and accolades. So they think that they're being who they want to be, but this is a kind of delusion. After living for many years that way, it can be hard to admit that one's identity is inauthentic. Sartre has written extensively about the complexities of living authentically, of being who one really is.

[Midnight Lady]

I think a lot of people don't even realize the difference between being who you are and being who the world wants you to be. It's not as easy to discern as some people may think. That's because we're programmed from an early age (through TV, the media, movies, parents, teachers, peers, etc.) to be who the world wants us to be. We think that who others want us to be is who we really are. Many people genuinely WANT to be what others want because they really want others' approval and accolades. So they think that they're being who they want to be, but this is a kind of delusion. After living for many years that way, it can be hard to admit that one's identity is inauthentic. Sartre has written extensively about the complexities of living authentically, of being who one really is.As always John, your opinion is a perfect summation of the issue.

And how right you are that many people live with the delusion that they are what they want to be, or what they believe themselves to be, when in fact they are the total of what their parents, teachers, friends, siblings, co-workers, etc. wanted and expected them to be.

It's a big step to the realization that you want to cast off the opinions of others and be YOU.

[mouldynudger]

I can`t imagine why anyone would waste their time considering such an issue. Soon we will all be dead.

Damian.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

This thread is about life life, not internet life, right? :dunno


Well, in real life, character and personality usually differ in most people to some degree whether you think so or not. http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/redface.gif Some people are pretty well balanced and are basically who they are with little or no acting, while other people put on a whole different act around people compared to who they are alone.

For me, I aim to please most people I deal with and usually try and avoid confrontation and conflict....... but ultimately I end up stating my opinion and doing what I think is right and proper, or whatever is in my best interest rather than bending over backwards to cater to someone else who wants to manipulate me......


In internet life, http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/redface.gif I always figured you could cut loose and go craZy !!! I mean, who cares ? !! ..... just tap into that imagination and youthful energy that you still have bottled up so you don't have to do it in real life and look like some kind of idiot! :)

[phoenix 7]

I can`t imagine why anyone would waste their time considering such an issue. Soon we will all be dead.

Damian.

All the more reason to live authentically, and not worry about conforming to the standards of others.

But I can tell from the self-portrait in your avatar that this is not a problem for you. :D

[mouldynudger]

But I can tell from the self-portrait in your avatar that this is not a problem for you. :D


Ha! Very true.

Damian.

[LavaMan]

These topics always baffle me - who can you be but yourself? Regardless of behaviour you always remain you....

[Suproman77]

These topics always baffle me - who can you be but yourself? Regardless of behaviour you always remain you....

Your 'true' self...the one that you'd normally want to be if you knew no one was watching and judging. To be your true self amongst your peers is a tough thing to be.

[mouldynudger]

Your 'true' self...the one that you'd normally want to be if you knew no one was watching and judging. To be your true self amongst your peers is a tough thing to be.

It`s also terribly over-rated as a concept. Many peoples "true self" is something best modified by societal constraint.

Damian.

[Suproman77]

It`s also terribly over-rated as a concept. Many peoples "true self" is something best modified by societal constraint.

Damian.

I can't disagree with you there. Good point. :AOK

There's more to it than that though...the peer pressure/self-improvement aspect of it.

[Dickie Fredericks]

a good father...

[mouldynudger]

There's more to it than that though...the peer pressure/self-improvement aspect of it.


I never really understood the purpose of such ideas. I can see how some pople might, it just never really appealed to me.

Witness my car of choice in the "christmas car" thread. No affectation, my genuine car of choice given the money.

Damian.