Better for practice: GuitarPort or Band-in-a-Box?

[Pedro58]

That's my question... which one do you guys think is better for practicing in front of a computer? What are the issues? Which one will make me want to practice more (I'm thinking Line 6 wins here)? Which one is more flexible (BIB wins here)? I could be wrong on those issues and have overlooked plenty. Comments?

[spaceboy]

never heard of these, but they sound very interesting. wanna post a link to a homepage or describe them for me? :D

[Pedro58]

Sure! Here is BIB:

http://www.pgmusic.com/bandbox.htm (http://)

and the Line 6 Guitarport:

http://www.guitarport.com/ (http://)

Anyone have thoughts? Am I comparing apples to oranges?

[EricT]

I think it's two different things, and that they would work best together. You use Guitar Port to learn some new licks, and BIAB to play them over backings.
What I don't like about BIAB is that a lot the styles are pretty cheezy, the time feel is very stiff, and it's not very good for making arrangments(intros, fills, bridges etc).
Haven't used Guitar Port much, but it seems like it's good for learning some new licks, and the backing tracks are fun to play over.

[bluestein]

BIAB used to be the only/best option - but now that MIDI programs for the computer have come of age, it's a bit dated.

I would use the Guitarport......but consider your goals - Guitarport is more to get your guitar INTO the computer.

You might not need anything more than Windows Media Player if all you want to do is practice with MIDI backing.

Try this: Search Google for "MIDI" plus the name of any song you're interested in - download the file and double click. It might be all you need for practicing.

[Joe]

Go here for free backing tracks (http://nergal.nosdns.com/~guitarba/bt/data/)

[Pedro58]

I have looked at those MIDI files and they are pretty cool. Band-in-a-box allows you to program your own... a distinct advantage, I think, over just downloading MIDI files.
Of course, that's what GuitarPort lacks also...
I see how I am trying to compare things with different purposes. I just wanted to know how well each worked as a tool for practicing. I know that with GP you need to subscribe to their service to get a lot of the practice functions. But the tones are good, compared to BIB's wanky computer sounds. Maybe I should buy both...

[EricT]

What style of music do you play? And in what area of your playing do you want to improve?

[Pedro58]

Mostly blues and rock, but I'd like to be able to play over changes better, particulary jazzier arrangements. I'm not looking to be Joe Pass or anything. It's just that playing over blues is second nature to me (though I still goof from time to time...) and it's getting a little old, the I-IV-V thing. I also need lots of improvement in my rythym chops and different time signatures besides straight 4/4. I'm your typical blues rocker!;)

[EricT]

BIAB is handy in the sense that you can easily change the chords to work on different substitutions, slow down the tempo etc.
There aren't many styles in time signatures other than 4/4, though.

[bluestein]

Originally posted by Pedro58
Mostly blues and rock, but I'd like to be able to play over changes better, particulary jazzier arrangements. I'm not looking to be Joe Pass or anything. It's just that playing over blues is second nature to me (though I still goof from time to time...) and it's getting a little old, the I-IV-V thing. I also need lots of improvement in my rythym chops and different time signatures besides straight 4/4. I'm your typical blues rocker!;)

Pedro, it sounds like you're trying to get some jazz chops....


The best computer program I've come across for self-instruction in this area are the Jazz Guitar Masterclass discs by Oliver Gannon. These are from PG music - at the link for BIAB you posted earlier.

[Pedro58]

Okay, I looked. Gannon does a series that's just on guitar, not jazz-specific, that comes with an upgrade pack for the BIB. Maybe I could go with that. I'm not sure if I'm looking for jazz chops, that's a lifelong pursuit! In any case, bluestein, thanks for pointing that out to me!:dude

[Michael Rooney]

Originally posted by Joe
Go here for free backing tracks (http://nergal.nosdns.com/~guitarba/bt/data/)

Joe, I'm really enjoying those tracks. Thanks very much, you're very generous.

Rock on!

[Jim Martin]

I dig the GuitarPort, if only to put on a backing track recorded by the Blue Line and wail over it. OK, maybe only noodle. The also have a bunch of songs you can learn and play along with.

However, most of the songs are classic rock, heavy metal, blues, etc. Not a lot of jazz offerings. And you're limited to their selections - you can't enter a chord sequence like you can in BiaB.

The backing tracks are fun, the lessons are sometimes useful, plus you can use the GuitarPort to record your guitar into a computer-based recorder.

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Joe
Go here for free backing tracks (http://nergal.nosdns.com/~guitarba/bt/data/)

Joe what are these backing tracks?

Is this something you've done?

They sure cover a lot of territory.

Interesting version of Billy's Bounce.

Thanks for the post.

[Stephen Landry]

I'm going to guess that a lot if not all of those backing tracks are from old issues of Guitar Techniques magazine.

[Paul Skidmore]

I user the guitarport for practice & the occasional attempt at recordings. The backing tracks are pretty cool & fun to play over, I've got a subscription & I enjoy it a lot (although Guitarport Online could do with a bit more content). The backing tracks are on the whole good quality with decent session players. Here's an example with me playing over the top:-

http://www.paulskidmore.com/mp3s/ThrillIsGone.mp3

Cheers,
Paul

[aeolian]

For practicing/studying, I find BIB to be great. It's easy to set up what you want to work on. Practice some 2-5's? no problem, work though a circle of 4ths? One or two chord vamps to try scale substitutions over? Or maybe try to keep up with Giant Steps at 180BPM?
I agree that the canned sounds and arrangements are a bit cheesy if you're trying to record clips or perform over them. But for practice, it's awesome.

[BKRMON]

Originally posted by Joe
Go here for free backing tracks (http://nergal.nosdns.com/~guitarba/bt/data/)

Aaarggh! I missed 'em.:(

[AlexT]

I much prefer standalone v/s computer based backing tracks. I use:

- Tascam CD-GT1 for backing CDs.

- Boss Jam Station to program practice loops.

- Roland MC80 for MIDI loops.

Of the three, once a library of quality MIDIs is built-up, the MC80 is my favorite.

Alex

[bluesmostly]

Originally posted by Paul Skidmore
I user the guitarport for practice & the occasional attempt at recordings. The backing tracks are pretty cool & fun to play over, I've got a subscription & I enjoy it a lot (although Guitarport Online could do with a bit more content). The backing tracks are on the whole good quality with decent session players. Here's an example with me playing over the top:-

http://www.paulskidmore.com/mp3s/ThrillIsGone.mp3

Cheers,
Paul

That's great work Paul, is that you singing?

[Paul Skidmore]

That's great work Paul, is that you singing?

Thanks for the complement man, I appreciate it :), I just realised this is my first clip submission to the gear page, scary!

I'm not actually singing, just playing guitar on that track. The singer is actually a session guy hired by Line 6, pretty cool though. :dude

Cheers,
Paul

[jzucker]

Originally posted by aeolian
For practicing/studying, I find BIB to be great. It's easy to set up what you want to work on. Practice some 2-5's? no problem, work though a circle of 4ths? One or two chord vamps to try scale substitutions over? Or maybe try to keep up with Giant Steps at 180BPM?
I agree that the canned sounds and arrangements are a bit cheesy if you're trying to record clips or perform over them. But for practice, it's awesome.

I like BIAB but it's a poor substitute for a real band. The feel is just awful. The Abersole recordings are much better though they feel stilted as well.

[EricT]

I use BIAB quite a lot, but I agree with Jack that the Aebersold tracks are a lot more fun to play over, and probably much better for your time feel.

[aeolian]

A lot of folks will ask about outside tonalities, or how you get across a certain change. My feeling is that like myself, a lot of these folks don't have the discipline to record backings or program a session trainer. BIB is the quickest and easiest way I know of to set up a little something to hear things you are studying over.

I agree, that one should play with a good rhythm section, or at least a well done backing track to learn phrasing and development. The more the band swings, the better the chance that the student will get infected with it.

[RedLizard]

Great stuff on that clip, Paul. That's the kind of backing track I've been looking for. I've bought a bunch of blues jam track CD's and they've been consistent in their cheesyness... or goofyness or whatever you want to call it.

Anyone have any other suggestions on where I might find some nice blues tracks or have some they might want to forward?

Paul, any chance of getting that Thrill is Gone track? Guess I'll look into a Guitar Port subscription.

[Paul Skidmore]

Originally posted by RedLizard
Great stuff on that clip, Paul. That's the kind of backing track I've been looking for. I've bought a bunch of blues jam track CD's and they've been consistent in their cheesyness... or goofyness or whatever you want to call it.

Paul, any chance of getting that Thrill is Gone track? Guess I'll look into a Guitar Port subscription.

I'll see what I can do for ya,

Cheers,
Paul

[simeon]

i use BIAB t make backing tracks, but i dump the midi into Logic and then use Kontakt or Battery so that the sounds are really high quality

as an example, here's a backing track i made of Proto Cosmos (written by Alan Pasqua, on the Tony Williams New Lifetime album 'Believe It')

i used BIAB to create the midi and then did some editing on it. the sounds are - rhodes = Logic EVP88, drums = Native Instruments Studio Drums, kit #1, bass = a sample

Proto Cosmos (http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/proto_cosmos.mp3)

cheers

sim

[jzucker]

Originally posted by simeon
i use BIAB t make backing tracks, but i dump the midi into Logic and then use Kontakt or Battery so that the sounds are really high quality

as an example, here's a backing track i made of Proto Cosmos (written by Alan Pasqua, on the Tony Williams New Lifetime album 'Believe It')

i used BIAB to create the midi and then did some editing on it. the sounds are - rhodes = Logic EVP88, drums = Native Instruments Studio Drums, kit #1, bass = a sample

Proto Cosmos (http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/proto_cosmos.mp3)

cheers

sim

Wow! My BIAB stuff never sounded that good! Fabulous job...

[simeon]

thanks jz!

actually, it sounds pretty muddy, cos it was converted from an ogg vorbis file and it's only at 128kbs - sounds much better "live", as it were!

here are a couple of takes of me trying to play on it - both pretty awful, i'm afraid...

PC take 1 (http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/protocosmos.mp3) - stratty tone, di'd

PC take 2 (http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/proto_cosmos_2.mp3) - fusiony tone recorded badly with my mini-disc mic

concentrating so much on the textural side of things these days, that my chops have gone down the toilet! :(

feel free to download the bt and have a crack...

sim

[jzucker]

Originally posted by simeon
thanks jz!

actually, it sounds pretty muddy, cos it was converted from an ogg vorbis file and it's only at 128kbs - sounds much better "live", as it were!

here are a couple of takes of me trying to play on it - both pretty awful, i'm afraid...

PC take 1 (http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/protocosmos.mp3) - stratty tone, di'd

PC take 2 (http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/proto_cosmos_2.mp3) - fusiony tone recorded badly with my mini-disc mic

concentrating so much on the textural side of things these days, that my chops have gone down the toilet! :(

feel free to download the bt and have a crack...

sim

I'm listening to take 2 right now. Sounds pretty good to me. What did you use for the amp/guitar setup? Sounds a bit Pod-ish but not bad at all. I can hear some holdsworth in there!

Jaz

[jzucker]

For comparison, this is something I did with BIAB as the backing track. Your guitar sound and backing sounds much better!

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/birdbluefusion.mp3

[simeon]

thanks jaz - (btw, you forgot to post a link to your clip)

the tone on take 2 is awful, i actually prefer the tone on take 1

both sounds are from a triaxis, take 1 uses the speaker sim in a tc g-force and take 2 is going into a boogie 20/20 poweramp and a marshall 1x12.

both takes were played on my maple-topped custom headless.

so here's a tip - if you want your hugely expensive boogie rig to sound like a POD - use a minidisk microphone!

:D

sim

[jzucker]

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/birdbluefusion.mp3

[simeon]

nice playing - unfortunately, all i could hear of the backing track was the bass drum, but there's a tiny bit at the beginning where i caught a glimpse of the rest of it - indeed...cheese city...

the funny thing about BIAB, is that it actually puts out a huge amount of midi information (especially on the drums) and if you have module or a sampler that's capable of reproducing all the subtleties, then it sounds really superb. the little synth they bundle in with it just can't do it justice.
if you use BIAB a lot, then it's really worth getting something decent to play it through, as it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable and you tend to get tired of the tracks less quickly.

sim

btw - got your book, but havn't had a chance to start working through it yet...

[khud]

Originally posted by Joe
Go here for free backing tracks (http://nergal.nosdns.com/~guitarba/bt/data/)

Hey Joe ... I cannot open link. Have another access link?