Lack of ability to get good stage volume in current generation players

[Guitar Dave T]

Here's something I noticed and responded too in another thread, and thought I'd give it its own forum:

Some players are so used to having their sound and instrument so completely handled in FOH and monitors, that when you throw them into a small club with backline volume only, they don't seem to have any clue how to achieve and maintain a balanced live stage mix by using their instrument level and playing dynamics.

This is painfully obvious when listening and group dynamics are ignored.

Including, and especially, some drummers.

Please feel free to discuss amongst yourselves...

[oakfloor]

Here's something I noticed and responded too in another thread, and thought I'd give it its own forum:

Some players are so used to having their sound and instrument so completely handled in FOH and monitors, that when you throw them into a small club with backline volume only, they don't seem to have any clue how to achieve and maintain a balanced live stage mix by using their instrument level and playing dynamics.

This is painfully obvious when listening and group dynamics are ignored.

Including, and especially, some drummers.

Please feel free to discuss amongst yourselves...
Good point, we always had a "trusted" ear, to walk around out front during sound check and when performing to help get that balance. And then the singer would always ask if it was too loud. [a great way to get invited back BTW] In a smaller club I tried to soften the sound with more verb on everything but bass guitar, and have the bass player EQ out the resonant standing wave. Bartenders loved that, also everyone turned down one notch to start the set off.

[loudboy]

This should be taken care of in practice. Everyone's gear should be adjusted/placed so that everyone can hear themselves and everyone else. Solos should come up and down. Then, at the gig, the setup should be the same.

Also, I always mic the guitars/kbds - just a touch in the PA will help spread it out, mainly so the patrons can hear from anywhere in the room.

It doesn't take much - almost subliminal.

[GerryJ]

I'm not sure the players are any different than the 60s-70s; at least back then, the volume was limited by the PA vocals - a good loud PA cost a fortune and required a van to move. Now, the vocalist can be way too loud also.

[VCuomo]

This should be taken care of in practice. Everyone's gear should be adjusted/placed so that everyone can hear themselves and everyone else. Solos should come up and down. Then, at the gig, the setup should be the same...That would work only if the sound dynamics of your practice room are at least close to the rooms that you gig in. I have my own rehearsal/recording studio, and I guarantee you the dynamics in that room (due to fully insulated walls and ceilings, and sound deadening material on all walls) are nowhere close to the rooms that I gig in.

[SyKrash]

Scott Henderson uses a boss looper to record a scratch blues track, then he walks into the house all around and adjusts as necessary.

Pretty good idea I stole from him, I use my boss dd-20 to record a chorus of a song and then jump out into the house at soundcheck.

[Guitar Dave T]

This should be taken care of in practice. Everyone's gear should be adjusted/placed so that everyone can hear themselves and everyone else. Solos should come up and down. Then, at the gig, the setup should be the same.

Also, I always mic the guitars/kbds - just a touch in the PA will help spread it out, mainly so the patrons can hear from anywhere in the room.

It doesn't take much - almost subliminal.

In the rooms we play, which are mostly small, micing guitar amps just adds significantly to the overall volume, even with relatively low-watt amps on stage.

For our clubs, backline volume only, with a hint of kick in the mains, is the only appropriate measure.

[dirtyfingers]

Love that looper idea. Never thought of it.
Thanks
Pat

[shaneygoo]

this is why i want a bose system

[improviduto]

This should be taken care of in practice. Everyone's gear should be adjusted/placed so that everyone can hear themselves and everyone else. Solos should come up and down. Then, at the gig, the setup should be the same.


My practice settings are never the same as my gig settings, and my gig settings vary with the room I play in and how many folks are in the audience.

As for the OP's observation, I agree.

[imonabuss]

My only comment: Loud drummers are the devil.

[epluribus]

One thing I learned from a pro in the early days...to keep guys honest, feed 'em their channel in their monitor mix without any comp, etc. That way, they have to learn to control their playing to stay in the mix and work with the band as a whole. Helps rookies develop their band-sense bigtime.

BTW, recording totally uncomped mixes and playing them back at rehearsal...what a reality check!

--Ray

[Guitar Dave T]

My only comment: Loud drummers are the devil.

In my curent small venue world, I agree, Drummers always set the volume, and loud drummers set a loud volume resulting in end-of-night fatique and no room for dynamics.

[Guitar Dave T]

BTW, recording totally uncomped mixes and playing them back at rehearsal...what a reality check!

--Ray

I do the next best thing - record an uncomped stereo room mic. It tells you very closely if you're able to maintain a balanced level.

[Lucidology]

this is why i want a bose system

That's why I have two of 'em ...

You can hear me using one here:

Live gigging with Bose System~Youtube (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=276682)