GM considering sale of Pontiac, Saab, and Saturn. Is it a good idea?

[It's Time!]

I think it's a great idea and they should also get rid of Hummer and GMC :-)

According to a report by Bloomberg, GM is considering dropping Pontiac, Saab and Saturn as a way to cut costs and to increase the chance of the Detroit Big 3 getting $25 billion in federal loans. Bloomberg cited anonymous sources that said GM is considering eliminating or selling the brands to help it avoid running out of money - which it recently said could happen as soon as the second-quarter of 2009.

No GM spokesperson has commented on the report as of yet but it is widely believed that the move could be included in the restructuring plan GM will submit to Congress on Tuesday. Congress had asked Mulally, Wagoner and Nardelli to come up with a plan that would display that the company’s would become profitable enough to repay the $25 billion in federal loans.

GM has already announced that it is selling its Hummer brand. We’d love to hear what you think - so let us know what you think of this report and whether GM should sell the brands listed.

[The_Whale]

They can sell lines but won't get much money for them (who would buy H Hummer now, and how much can they get for it?; that won't solve their problems.

They have too many dealers so dropping lines will make a bigger difference in a shorter time; it's almost a given in a chapter 11 or in a major settlement with lenders/unions/etc....

[VCuomo]

I'd keep the Pontiac brand and sell off Buick instead. Or just add Buick to the above list.

[abergdahl]

As a Swede I hope that the manage to sell SAAB. SAAB had a rather good and unique profile which I hope they can get back if the are operated outside of GM. Right now SAABs are more or less Opels with a slightly different look. I actually see SAAB as a complement to BMW. They could be more exclusive but appeal to different persons than BMW. SAAB was one of the first with front wheel drive and one of the first Turbos. BMW stick with back wheel drive and non turbo engines, except for diesels.

[Melj]

They should retool the classic 900 T16 Aero, with some slight modernising improvements...might even lure me back from Subaru :)

[amigo30]

If you can look past the complete economic meltdown and immense suffering it would cause to the entire world...

Well then, GM should just be allowed to go under. They are a bureaucratic overgrown nightmare that simply can't unravel the mess they've created for themselves. Let somebody smaller, with some passion, and not so many shackles rise up and take their place. Let the new guys know that if they don't manage their business well and practice intelligent, responsible manufacturing with quality and innovation, they will go under also.

[twinrider1]

From what I've read, Buick is a strong brand in China.
Of those listed, I don't know if there is much demand for Pontiac. I can see the Saab and Saturn badges having some value.

[It's Time!]

From what I've read, Buick is a strong brand in China.
Of those listed, I don't know if there is much demand for Pontiac. I can see the Saab and Saturn badges having some value.

That's right, Buick is the #1 selling American brand in China and Buick stays.

Time to get rid of all those rebadged cars.

Ford should dump Mercury too!

[Mike9]

Hell yes!!! Then maybe someone who knows how to build cars will buy SAAB. They used to be such great cars.

[jetydosa]

I personally think GM needs to whittle itself down to just Chevrolet to have a chance. Chevy is the strongest brand as far as recognition goes with the most models. Stick with that.

Aside from a few models, they are basically duplicates of each other anyway. I never understood the need for Chevy AND GMC trucks?

GM never should have bought SAAB, Hummer. Saturn was a good idea back in the 90s but they strayed away from what made Saturn unique within the GM brand and went back to platform sharing.

[TwoTubMan]

I've noticed the other day that most of the new car commercials have already stopped mentioning fuel economy. It's apparently going to take more than a few tons of bricks to fall on their heads before they change their ways. They simply don't get it, and I doubt they'll get it even after they have to board the place up. Of course, the golden parachutes will fill the Detroit sky when that happens.

[jcoggins7]

IMHO, they can't afford to get rid of Saturn and Pontiac now. However, SAAB, Hummer, and GMC would be fine dropping. I think that GMC is kinda a dumb idea in the first place. It's a Chevy with a different name. Why bother? SAABs are their own thing, and Hummers are too, but Hummers are impractical (especially for GM and especially now). I would drop Buick before I dropped Pontiac and Saturn though. Big, gas guzzling old people cars (in a way like Oldsmobile, but at least Oldsmobile had the Cutlass). Pontiac's doing well IMO with stuff like the G6 and Saturn totally has a niche market that Chevy won't be able to compete with.

[The Golden Boy]

They are a bureaucratic overgrown nightmare


"Let the record show that no hands were raised."

[HeeHaw]

GM should consider dumping the union. That would go very far to helping their cause.

[sundaypunch]

It's a band-aid. They need some kind of bankruptcy deal that will allow them to renegotiate their labor contracts. Barring that they are going to continue to be uncompetetive.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I'd keep the Pontiac brand and sell off Buick instead. Or just add Buick to the above list.


Or maybe trim it down to one brand and then maybe concentrate on doing an over the top stellar job with quality, models offered and options. :drink

[K-Line]

Keep Pontiac and Saturn! Saturn should be their model. No union, green plant for the most part. I hope whatever they do the stock continues to rise. Bought in on some Monday, went up about 60% in 2 days!

[MudPies]

I agree, it's good but it's still a bandaid.

[Seakayak]

Sell them??? Just stop producing so many different lines. Keep one "name", maybe Chevrolet.

[daddyo]

I've heard scenarios about the big 3 keeping their overseas divisions and letting the local stuff wither. Chrysler would merge with Ford. Apparently, Chrysler's only profitable divisions are Jeep and the minivan plant in Ontario.

[kovachian]

Keep three brands:

Chevy - all-purpose all-loving brand for the meat-and-potatoes mainstream. Have a wide array of models for different market segments and all based on value without feeling cheap. Keep a few SS sporty equivalents around for those who want it.

Saturn - GM's import fighter (even though they're imports themselves). Small, quick, nimble and very economical. This should at the minimum be the entry gate for first time buyers to the world of GM.

Cadillac - top-dog, balls-to-the-wall luxury. Build the most lavish and jaw-dropping cars that technology will allow, NO bean counters allowed. If that means most models have to carry a price tag well into the six figure range then so be it; that'd be ok AS LONG AS Cadillac has the brand cache to justify such prices. Cadillac should be the crowning jewel of the American auto industry and represent nothing but the best of the best.

The vast majority of manufacturing should be as flexible as possible in order to quickly react to changing market conditions, particularly Chevy and Saturn; Cadillac should be more autonomous.

Forget selling Buicks in the US, no one other than grandpa wants one. Let GM's overseas operations take care of Buick in China, and wherever else they sell well.

Pontiac is just redundant, sorry. Bring the G8 under the Chevy umbrella, kill the 'first ever' (LOL) G6 and f*** the G3, that was a mistake. Kill the Solstice, not needed. Saturn would keep their platform equivalent but I think it's being cancelled soon for some reason.

Hummer - bye-bye, and thanks for the memories.

Saab - I still see potential in this brand. The cars aren't that bad, and cars with that quirky Scandinavian flavor can still do well. Sell Saab to someone in Europe if that's it takes but please don't pull Saab from America's shores.

GMC - huh? What? Go away.

[Tahitijack]

Yes, but the former big 3 have been in quicksand for decades now it will be too late. Probably only two be strong enough to compete during the next two years. Why should the American tax payer reward bad management and unions for making all the wrong moves? Look no further than the private jets to DC to see where these folks are.......

[spectreman]

The bottom line is they are going to be cutting brands.

Reports I have read suggest they will keep Chevy (cars), GMC (trucks/SUVs), and Buick (because of its international sales). If they ditch Buick, they might keep Cadillac instead.

I think you can kiss Saab, Hummer, Pontiac, and Saturn goodbye.

[loudboy]

GM has already announced that it is selling its Hummer brand.

I think "trying" to sell would be more correct. What company in their right mind would buy them?

Hasn't Saturn always been unprofitable?

I'm not sure about Pontiac - I seem more "Vibes" than about any other new car out there - hugely successful. A fun, practical, roomy car that gets 30+mpg - who'da thunk THAT would be a success? That's right - Toyota...

[kovachian]

I think "trying" to sell would be more correct. What company in their right mind would buy them?Why not Tata? They own Land Rover, and those sales are strong. They could probably work some magic on Hummer too.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/12/landrover2.jpg

[tonefreak]

GM should consider dumping the union. That would go very far to helping their cause.

Yes, this will have a more perminent, long term benefit for GM rather than the quick fix of selling some of their brands.

[tacorivers]

GM should consider dumping the union. That would go very far to helping their cause.

Actually, they should dump upper management with their multi-million dollar salaries and private jets. This would save much more money than cutting labor rates.

[tonefreak]

Actually, they should dump upper management with their multi-million dollar salaries and private jets. This would save much more money than cutting labor rates.

They need to do both... cutting salaries of the executives will help, but eliminating the union will still have a more lasting impact to GMs top and bottom line. Lower labor costs means that total cost per car is less and then they can pass that costs savings to the consumers thru more competitive price points.

[jcoggins7]

They need to do both... cutting salaries of the executives will help, but eliminating the union will still have a more lasting impact to GMs top and bottom line. Lower labor costs means that total cost per car is less and then they can pass that costs savings to the consumers thru more competitive price points.

This I can agree with.

[re-animator]

Of course its a good idea. none of them make giant SUVs... how could they possibly be profitable?

[RonH]

I think it's a great idea and they should also get rid of Hummer and GMC :-)



Just curious, why should they get rid of the Hummer and GMC?

Ron

[zekmoe]

Buicks are far more reliable and fun to drive than 99% of Hondas. Having owned many of both, I'll never buy another Honda.
Saturn, a good idea gone bad.

[StJimmy]

Too bad they can't build plants like the Ford plant in Brazil. The suppliers make their contributing parts right there onsite. The end of the video says that Ford would love to build plants like this in the US but the UAW is adverse to the "supplier integration" idea.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

[stephenT]

Hell yes!!! Then maybe someone who knows how to build cars will buy SAAB. They used to be such great cars.

I've owned over two dozen Saabs, still own two, a '02 9-5 sports wagon and a '92 900 convertible, my son is driving a '84 900 w/ 280k on the original drivetrain.

Give it up GM,.... please give me a Swedish designed and built Saab,....

[The Last Rebel]

I've owned over two dozen Saabs, still own two, a '02 9-5 sports wagon and a '92 900 convertible, my son is driving a '84 900 w/ 280k on the original drivetrain.

Give it up GM,.... please give me a Swedish designed and built Saab,....
Besides Koenigsegg and Saab are there any Swedish car makers?

I really think they should try to get VW to buy Saab. They've done a good job with almost every other car brand they've bought.

[Mr. Kite]

Most dealerships in America are family owned. I am a Ford dealer and I work with 135 people at my place (150 when times are good). I have invested a lot of blood sweat and tears into my place, years of work trying to learn expensive lessons. The business was my fathers and I am honored to follow in his large foot steps. My point is that we (the dealers and crew) are people too. We show up every day and do our best to sell and service the product. Think of all the people, service technicians, painters, bodymen, porters, title clerks, salespeople, accounts payable, receivable, billing clerk... We all have families and depend on our stores. We had squat to do with this situation. I think it's a bad idea to abandon these brands. There are folks in those dealerships that have devoted their lives to that store. The Grateful Dead said it best, "strange days indeed".

[Bulldog]

I'd keep the Pontiac brand and sell off Buick instead. Or just add Buick to the above list.

Buick's their #1 seller outside the US.. It's also their best made car. You won't see them sell that off anytime in the near future. It's what is keeping GM afloat.

[Bulldog]

Forget selling Buicks in the US, no one other than grandpa wants one. Let GM's overseas operations take care of Buick in China, and wherever else they sell well.


That's funny, I'm 27, and I buy a buick over any other POS built today. The styling has been stepped up over the old Buicks, and the quality is almost on par with the Cadillac line. If you haven't driven one, that's your loss.

[kovachian]

You're 27, and the average Buick owner is 65. Well then, hats off to you for bucking the trend. But anyways...I'm not talking about the styling which is entirely subjective anyways, I'm talking about build quality. My experience with Buick says they're garbage. If you're one of the GM faithful well then bless yer heart, I for one couldn't care less about Buick.

[cg]

I personally think GM needs to whittle itself down to just Chevrolet to have a chance. Chevy is the strongest brand as far as recognition goes with the most models. Stick with that.

Aside from a few models, they are basically duplicates of each other anyway. I never understood the need for Chevy AND GMC trucks?

GM never should have bought SAAB, Hummer. Saturn was a good idea back in the 90s but they strayed away from what made Saturn unique within the GM brand and went back to platform sharing.


I agree. I don't know how they can afford to maintain 8 brands - dealer networks, marketing campaigns, manufacturing plants, etc. Get down to Chevy and focus on making a single line of excellent automobiles.

[It's Time!]

Just curious, why should they get rid of the Hummer and GMC?

Ron

Because they're rebadged trucks.

[The Last Rebel]

I agree. I don't know how they can afford to maintain 8 brands - dealer networks, marketing campaigns, manufacturing plants, etc. Get down to Chevy and focus on making a single line of excellent automobiles.
Look at Volkswagen, they manage themselves plus Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti. Here's my idea for domestic GM actions. Sell Buick, Pontiac, Saab, and Hummer. Keep Chevy as the figurehead line. Have Cadillac as your upscale cars and Saturn for your first time/low-income market. Keep GMC as a commercial truck/van line ONLY. Overseas wise, sell Opel and Holden, but keep Vauxhall. GM needs to have some foreign recognition and Vauxhall's are good cars.

[RonH]

Because they're rebadged trucks.

I guess I don't get it. Not sure if you have something against trucks or Hummers but no big deal. I say keep them all and let people have a choice in what they want to drive. The only reason to get rid of a line of automobiles is if people are not buying them.

Ron

[Layne-o]

Why not trim off the "fat?" How many Pontiac, Saturns, or even GMC models can you name off the top of your head? Now compare that with Toyo or Honda's models -

YMMV (sic),

Layne

[abergdahl]

Besides Koenigsegg and Saab are there any Swedish car makers?

I really think they should try to get VW to buy Saab. They've done a good job with almost every other car brand they've bought.

Volvo... altough they are owned by Ford at the moment.

[Tuberoast]

Chevy and Buick should stay. Buick has a very strong demographic that does well in China but the US as well. Pontiac has exterior differences but like Olds, GMC, there are cross similarities that are redundant (GM has done this to death). It would allow GM to expand to lesser extend and cover style issues. Saturn should be a sell off as should SAAB. Let them become their own entities. The union should make MORE concessions as most of their demands lead to lay-offs as payroll is about 50-70% of the gross profit (or use to be). I believe the union should stay; people need some benefit protection (white collar benefits to retirees has taken a huge reduction) but as stated above, the unions must make concessions.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

GM should consider dumping the union. That would go very far to helping their cause.


That would be a major key in this whole mess, but I think the only way they can get away with it is to go chapter 11....... which is what would naturally happen if they don't get bailed out.

Chapter 11 wouldn't mean the end of GM and all the supporting jobs, but it would be a fresh start and eliminate the internal bleeding that's been going on.

Unfortunately, I think they are going to be bailed out. :messedup

[Rock Johnson]

GM should consider dumping the union. That would go very far to helping their cause.


Shhh... stop making sense.

There's car plants springing up all over the south. Kia, Toyota, BMW, Nissan, they're all building plants in the deep south as fast as they can.

There's only one reason they're not building plants in Detroit, and it ain't the Lions.

[NuSkoolTone]

I think GMC should go, I never understood why it was created in the first place when it's just a Chevy with different badges. Buick's perception problem is they haven't done ANYTHING COOL since the Gran National! Losing Pontiac I think would be a mistake, they just need to be more refined.

Cadillac getting MORE expensive is NOT a good idea! They need to compete better at the price they are already at. They need to update the style of Cadillac too, all the models are starting to look the same!

Saturn looks cheap IMO, axe em. Hummers good times are gone, and there's even a backlash, so let that go too.

Saab I never paid attention to, so no comment there.

[It's Time!]

I guess I don't get it. Not sure if you have something against trucks or Hummers but no big deal. I say keep them all and let people have a choice in what they want to drive. The only reason to get rid of a line of automobiles is if people are not buying them.

Ron

What the big 3 need to do is offer less variety and more reliability. It cost a fortune to offer the same car or truck and run a dealership with a different badge.

Now Toyota uses the same platform for many cars and SUV's. The Camry platform is used for the Highlander and the Lexus RX and the Lexus ES350, but there are major upgrades for the Lexus cars.

Just like Ford, it has the Ford Fusion and then there's the Mercury Milan and the new Taurus is coming out and so will the Sable.

Ford should retire Mercury and keep Lincoln.

[tacorivers]

They need to do both... cutting salaries of the executives will help, but eliminating the union will still have a more lasting impact to GMs top and bottom line. Lower labor costs means that total cost per car is less and then they can pass that costs savings to the consumers thru more competitive price points.

I'm not so sure this is the case, as I don't know the salary structure of GM. Most US corporations pay their top executives an obscene amount. I think that most of the reporting on GM's labor costs is heavily anti-union, so I do not think that we have a true picture of that either. Plus, management cost should also be included in the marginal cost of each car produced (it probably is not).

[RonH]

What the big 3 need to do is offer less variety and more reliability. It cost a fortune to offer the same car or truck and run a dealership with a different badge.

Now Toyota uses the same platform for many cars and SUV's. The Camry platform is used for the Highlander and the Lexus RX and the Lexus ES350, but there are major upgrades for the Lexus cars.

Just like Ford, it has the Ford Fusion and then there's the Mercury Milan and the new Taurus is coming out and so will the Sable.

Ford should retire Mercury and keep Lincoln.

Gotcha! IMO, they could do all of this and still not survive. Until they get out from under the crazy demands the unions have put on them, there is no hope, only prolonging of the inevitable. I believe the average wage for the big 3 works out to around 70+ dollars an hour and Toyota works out to about 40+ dollars an hour. No company can last when they are paying regular employers more than they are worth (or basically more than the employee adds to the company).

Ron

[lcjc800]

another thread for the Gear Page Economic genius's to show there lack of understanding and knowledge of the situation :jo
Will their never ending blame for the country's problems shy away from the working man's health, safety and economic viability ever stop coming from privileged few?

:munch

[RonH]

another thread for the Gear Page Economic genius's to show there lack of understanding and knowledge of the situation :jo
Will their never ending blame for the country's problems shy away from the working man's health, safety and economic viability ever stop coming from privileged few?

:munch

Then enlighten everyone and explain how everything works. Glad I don't fall into the privileged few. My life has been far from privileged :D

Ron

[lcjc800]

nah, you got it

[RonH]

nah, you got it

Suit yourself.

Ron

[Smakutus]

I think GMC should go, I never understood why it was created in the first place when it's just a Chevy with different badges.

I have a uncle that bought a 1/2 ton pickup back in the 90's. On one side it had the Chevy logo and on the other it had a GMC.

I'm bothered by all the anti-union talk at this site. If it wasn't for the union, wages and benefits wouldn't be as high. This goes not just for the union worker, but also workers in the same towns. The unions have made mistakes for sure but everybody made more because of those jobs.

Jeff

[RonH]

I have a uncle that bought a 1/2 ton pickup back in the 90's. On one side it had the Chevy logo and on the other it had a GMC.

I'm bothered by all the anti-union talk at this site. If it wasn't for the union, wages and benefits wouldn't be as high. This goes not just for the union worker, but also workers in the same towns. The unions have made mistakes for sure but everybody made more because of those jobs.

Jeff

I am going to stick to the college football thread and stay out of this one!

Ron

[RichieRich]

I have a uncle that bought a 1/2 ton pickup back in the 90's. On one side it had the Chevy logo and on the other it had a GMC.

I'm bothered by all the anti-union talk at this site. If it wasn't for the union, wages and benefits wouldn't be as high. This goes not just for the union worker, but also workers in the same towns. The unions have made mistakes for sure but everybody made more because of those jobs.

Jeff

yep, but if they did away with the union i'm sure there's a slew of people that would take up work for a sub-union wage.

there's an ass for every seat.

[tonefreak]

I have a uncle that bought a 1/2 ton pickup back in the 90's. On one side it had the Chevy logo and on the other it had a GMC.

I'm bothered by all the anti-union talk at this site. If it wasn't for the union, wages and benefits wouldn't be as high. This goes not just for the union worker, but also workers in the same towns. The unions have made mistakes for sure but everybody made more because of those jobs.

Jeff

People get paid what they are worth. During the height of the Internet boom, network admins were getting in excess of $80-100K per year. Bubble burst, market became flooded with out of work IT and salaries plummetted 30-50%.

Something gotta give... Union wants to keep wages high, executives want to keep their high salaries and bonuses, and all the while the US auto industry is bleeding heavily. Like any other business, they need to face the consequences of a failing business.

BTW, I was with two failed companies during the whole Internet mess... I lost my job twice. Bail-out... gimme a break. I had to hussle a new job twice w/ a mortgage, a new baby and car payments looming over me.

[tacorivers]

GM spent $40 million in executive compensation in 2007.