I Don't Get Sniping And Attitude Over Gear!

[LSchefman]

I guess this is an open letter to the TGP Community.

Why make posts personal, nasty, ugly, etc.? How does doing that improve your life or anyone else's?

Ask yourself: Does ugliness and mean-spiritedness make your life better in any way? Are you really happier when you're flaming people or being flamed about something as subject to opinion as a piece of gear?

Is it even possible to prove that you're "right" when opinions about MUSICAL EQUIPMENT are personal, especially on a board of what, 10,000 people? Who play diverse kinds of music, and who may have very different needs?

Get real!

We're seeing mean-spirited posts, attacks on various builders, sniping about such things as money spent on amps, trolls, attacks on whole categories of gear. And on and on. No one's immune from this once it gets going. And it gets stupid and ugly.

What's that about? You don't like something, fine, but back off the vitriol! All it does is incite flame wars. We all have opinions. It's cool to express them, but I mean, people DO have feelings, and people DO like their gear and will defend their decisions to buy it.

So why incite angry arguments? Why the sniping, the attitude, the BS? If you don't like something, all you have to say is, "Tried it, didn't work for me." Feel it isn't worth the asking price? What's wrong with keeping it to, "I didn't think it was worth what they want for it." Or, "Not worth the money to me."

You can express a negative opinion in a way that isn't offensive, it's just a statement of opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Think about having your work criticized; how would you want someone to tell you it wasn't their cup of meat?

Is it too much to ask people to be kind to each other?

I mean, we're all musicians here. We're all about talking about our fave gear, or discussing gear. We're here to have fun, learn, pass the time in peace. Let's treat each other the way we would if we actually appreciated lots of points of view. Pretend, if you have to. ;)

[Groovey Records]

I chalk it up to penis envy

[bigkahuna2u]

It's not just here it's all over the place.

[realityczech]

I chalk it up to that LSchefman started posting again.

[jimfog]

Middle aged boys with toys............and too much time on their hands.......what else would you expect?

No, seriously.

[XKnight]

Nothing like drudging up the issue again.

[Jarrett]

Is it too much to ask people to be kind to each other?

Les, I see this too on here and I've definitely been guilty of it in the past myself. I've had a series of changes in my life that have almost completely changed the way I view everything. And one of the byproducts of the change is that I've lost the urges that drive me to lash out at people.

Speaking from just my personal experience, I think it just boils down to people having hurts and pains in their life and no knowledge of how to deal with them. That can cause a lack of deep and meaningful relationships in our lives which deepens the bitterness. Which can ultimately make us want to lash out at other people and doing so from behind the keyboard is the safest way for us to do it.

Knowing where its coming from also helps me deal with it when I see it in others now. These are some scary times our society is facing today on many levels so I would expect that type of lashing out to probably grow until things bounce back to a more comfortable level for us.

[s2amps]

I think we have quite a few unhinged members on the board now. It doesn't matter what this type of person discusses. It is in his/her personality to act, well, unhinged.

[rockon1]

I guess this is an open letter to the TGP Community.

Why make posts personal, nasty, ugly, etc.? How does doing that improve your life or anyone else's?

Ask yourself: Does ugliness and mean-spiritedness make your life better in any way? Are you really happier when you're flaming people or being flamed about something as subject to opinion as a piece of gear?

Is it even possible to prove that you're "right" when opinions about MUSICAL EQUIPMENT are personal, especially on a board of what, 10,000 people? Who play diverse kinds of music, and who may have very different needs?

Get real!

We're seeing mean-spirited posts, attacks on various builders, sniping about such things as money spent on amps, trolls, attacks on whole categories of gear. And on and on. No one's immune from this once it gets going. And it gets stupid and ugly.

What's that about? You don't like something, fine, but back off the vitriol! All it does is incite flame wars. We all have opinions. It's cool to express them, but I mean, people DO have feelings, and people DO like their gear and will defend their decisions to buy it.

So why incite angry arguments? Why the sniping, the attitude, the BS? If you don't like something, all you have to say is, "Tried it, didn't work for me." Feel it isn't worth the asking price? What's wrong with keeping it to, "I didn't think it was worth what they want for it." Or, "Not worth the money to me."

You can express a negative opinion in a way that isn't offensive, it's just a statement of opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Think about having your work criticized; how would you want someone to tell you it wasn't their cup of meat?

Is it too much to ask people to be kind to each other?

I mean, we're all musicians here. We're all about talking about our fave gear, or discussing gear. We're here to have fun, learn, pass the time in peace. Let's treat each other the way we would if we actually appreciated lots of points of view. Pretend, if you have to. ;)

Another dull, long winded ,peace loving post.....:jo




























that I agree with! :)Bob

[QRSS]

i kinda enjoy the bickering. it's amusing. :)
it's only the internet. you could always do somethin' else for a while.

[guitarman_nebr]

hey, at least it is mostly about the gear.

check out the Harmony Central forums....it is about everything but gear!!

boobs, beer, bloopers, boobs, beer................yea, it is that bad

musicians can't get along in a band!! why would we agree on a discussion forum?

[oldmanmetal]

Healthy discussion can be good. People take stuff too personally when their favorite (insert here) gets questioned. Seems like some people attack the person, instead of realizing it is just an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

[cram]

the calvin stickers on pickup trucks come to mind...

[korby]

I hav'nt noticed it here . Go check out the Les Paul forum for a while and this place will seem like tea with grandma .

[Blueser]

Healthy discussion can be good. People take stuff too personally when their favorite (insert here) gets questioned. Seems like some people attack the person, instead of realizing it is just an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's one thing to question or state opinions on gear, but another thing to take passive aggressive shots while doing it. Gear is questioned and discussed all the time around here, but trolling to stir up shit or poking at people on internet forums is just cowardly. Plain and simple.

I don't expect my post or this thread to change anything. People are who they are. It's a shame that this place has been degraded over the past few years by morons that feel the need to shit all over everyone's gear, opinions, etc.

It takes more energy to be an asshole than to handle yourself with grace!

[oldmanmetal]

It's one thing to question or state opinions on gear, but another thing to take passive aggressive shots while doing it. Gear is questioned and discussed all the time around here, but trolling to stir up shit or poking at people on internet forums is just cowardly. Plain and simple.

I don't expect my post or this thread to change anything. People are who they are. It's a shame that this place has been degraded over the past few years by morons that feel the need to shit all over everyone's gear, opinions, etc.

It takes more energy to be an asshole than to handle yourself with grace!

Or use lots of profanity to make a point, while insulting someone. Grace?

[tennisplayer]

Or use lots of profanity to make a point, while insulting someone. Grace?

Wow, that's what I saw too. Nice!

[traviswalk]

Can't we all just get along???

http://myapologies.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/king_rodney.jpg

[gulliver]

It's all about respect ... next time driving, cut someone off and watch what they do (probably flip you the bird). Then cut someone off and waive to them. I found that giving someone a waive in a tight situation shows respect and earns instant forgiveness. It holds true with communication.

[The Guy]

hey, at least it is mostly about the gear.

check out the Harmony Central forums....it is about everything but gear!!

boobs, beer, bloopers, boobs, beer................yea, it is that bad

musicians can't get along in a band!! why would we agree on a discussion forum?

ive been on the HC forum just for S & Gs, and yes, it was that bad. this community is among the best, albeit flawed, just as any collection of diverse people would be.

but, as far as the internet goes, this forum is pretty damn civilized!

[RL in Fla]

Alpha mousepads , all keyed up with blo(g)where to go .

[Mr.Hanky]

Bah... yer all pissed cause my gear and my opinion is better then yours.

[tennisplayer]

Bah... yer all pissed cause my gear and my opinion is better then yours.

I want to sig. this! Good one Hanky! Everyone know you have junk gear and your opinion is always so wrong. Ha......

[oldmanmetal]

Bah... yer all pissed cause my gear and my opinion is better then yours.

Ha Ha. Nice.:stir

[LSchefman]

I've been around here (and its predecessor, the PRS Forum) for 8 years. I've made some good friends.

After a while, you come to the conclusion that there's simply no need for flame wars, and no excuse for them.

[Sean French]

There are some with the elitist attitude.Especially with D style amps.
I willing to bet that most of those culprits are some of the least accomplished players too.Just sayin'

[TNJ]

Thankfully...in real life, folks tend to behave better...more like themselves.
When all else fails, remember...it's only cyberspace. Virtually unreal.

Hope all is well, Les. :cool:


S.
j

[Jon Silberman]

The main reason I use my own, real name here is that it personalizes the situation. While I'm happy with the setup here, were I to ever host a forum of my own, I'd make using real names and avatars with mug shots a requirement to post. No, it wouldn't eliminate all of the sniping - it doesn't in person, either - but I believe it would help because it's harder under those conditions to dehumanize the other.

[oldmanmetal]

There are some with the elitist attitude.Especially with D style amps.
I willing to bet that most of those culprits are some of the least accomplished players too.Just sayin'

Very true. Been to many people's houses with the most amazing gear you have ever seen, and the money would have better been spent on lessons. 1 guy had 2 Dumbles, among other things, and a TON of vintage Gibsons, and was hands down the worst player I ever heard. Tone deaf. It's like the executive who puts on leather, bandanas, and acts like a biker on weekends with a 50,000 Harley.

[B_of_H]

I don't understand this attitude either.

I played a gig last night with my omega HRDX on the clean channel (reverb off) with dirt pedals and a bunch of guitarists who own really nice gear were raving about my tone.

Folks it's in the hands. :)

[oldmanmetal]

I don't understand this attitude either.

I played a gig last night with my omega HRDX on the clean channel (reverb off) with dirt pedals and a bunch of guitarists who own really nice gear were raving about my tone.

Folks it's in the hands. :)

Well stated.

[Thwap]

I think the whole idea of having your "musicial" identity attached somehow the gear you own is part of the situation.

It makes it relatively easy for someone who wants to start a pissing match to hit a nerve. It's all over the place here, and it seems like most people can take it for what it is, an opinion, or a troll, it's all in the delivery.

If you have great gear, but can't play, good for you. If you have okay gear and can play, good for you. And any other permutation of that...

But IMO, this sniping thing, it's always gonna be around. It's really non-productive, kinda funny to read sometimes, kinda sad others.

But to me anyway, it usually sounds like sour grapes of some sort, I just sort of mentally shrug my shoulders and move on. The beauty of the forum is that no one's holding a gun to my head making me read any of it.

[cottoneyedjoe]

I agree with your post, but my Les Paul is still better than your crappy Strat.

Just kiddin'

[Melodyman]

I guess this is an open letter to the TGP Community.

Why make posts personal, nasty, ugly, etc.? How does doing that improve your life or anyone else's?

Ask yourself: Does ugliness and mean-spiritedness make your life better in any way? Are you really happier when you're flaming people or being flamed about something as subject to opinion as a piece of gear?

Is it even possible to prove that you're "right" when opinions about MUSICAL EQUIPMENT are personal, especially on a board of what, 10,000 people? Who play diverse kinds of music, and who may have very different needs?

Get real!

We're seeing mean-spirited posts, attacks on various builders, sniping about such things as money spent on amps, trolls, attacks on whole categories of gear. And on and on. No one's immune from this once it gets going. And it gets stupid and ugly.

What's that about? You don't like something, fine, but back off the vitriol! All it does is incite flame wars. We all have opinions. It's cool to express them, but I mean, people DO have feelings, and people DO like their gear and will defend their decisions to buy it.

So why incite angry arguments? Why the sniping, the attitude, the BS? If you don't like something, all you have to say is, "Tried it, didn't work for me." Feel it isn't worth the asking price? What's wrong with keeping it to, "I didn't think it was worth what they want for it." Or, "Not worth the money to me."

You can express a negative opinion in a way that isn't offensive, it's just a statement of opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Think about having your work criticized; how would you want someone to tell you it wasn't their cup of meat?

Is it too much to ask people to be kind to each other?

I mean, we're all musicians here. We're all about talking about our fave gear, or discussing gear. We're here to have fun, learn, pass the time in peace. Let's treat each other the way we would if we actually appreciated lots of points of view. Pretend, if you have to. ;)

Welcome to the internet, no offense.

You'll see all the good and bad that humanity has to offer in online forums, much like the real world.

If you try to police or control it, it gets worse in some circumstances or simply apathy sets in when posting activity is too tightly controlled...

It's a fine line to walk, let your posting activity do the talking if you want things to be better by setting an example.

It's like trying to separate the ying from the yang, one feeds off the other...

[wstsidela]

A Dumble & a D'Pergo walk into a bar...

[Seditious]

I've been around here (and its predecessor, the PRS Forum) for 8 years. I've made some good friends.

After a while, you come to the conclusion that there's simply no need for flame wars, and no excuse for them.

I agree. I'm at the point where I usually post how I feel once and then never go back to that thread just so I don't feel the need to defend my point of view.

Or I avoid sensitive topics all together. :eek:

[JoeP]

Actually, I really think the problem comes from people living in a make believe world, and not in complete touch with reality, so they come on to the internet, and they get to be everything, and anything, that they aren't, won't be, can't ever be, or will never be, regardless of the amount of money or gear they have.

For all of the highly educated people that exist on this forum, it's too bad they haven't ever figured out, that even people's lies (generally on forums), are make believe. And you fall prey to believing in, and getting sucked into, the non existant world of lies, and fantasy.

So, you, (we), generally get sucked into a flame war, about make believe, made up lies.

So, we're generally reacting to stuff that just don't really exist.....

[epluribus]

Nuh-uh, I really am James Bond, just undercover as a "Jimmy Page." And my gear really is cooler than yours. M said so.

So there.

--Michael Jordan

[whitehall]

These are internet chat rooms, nothing more nothing less. If you don't like something.. simply log off... There. See how simple that was.

[sfarnell]

People post things that they would never say to someone's face without fear of being punched.

Just as in any group, there are bound to be people here who completely lack empathy and find it difficult to put themselves in the place of others. And, they seem to be the ones who have no clue about how their actions affect others, or why.

The 'ol golden rule is a nice guide: "...do unto others as ......"

[americananalog]

As long as no one is getting killed, what's the harm?
I work in sales, so I know how to handle insults, abuse, and rejection.
Bring on the flames!!

[DStefani]

Thankfully...in real life, folks tend to behave better...more like themselves.

WAL-MART!

For all your human reality needs!
Especially on Friday Nov. 28th. :stir

Seems like if folks here are not rushing and crushing others to death over discounted video games then perhaps just skipping the threads that appear to be below your tolerance level might help your blood pressure.

- D

[littlejohn]

Whatever piece of gear works for someone else is none of my business quite frankly. It's their hands, their sound, their time, their budget, etc.
That's really the bottom line.

[dgood]

Two cows are mooing angrily at each other in a crowded Toys R Us when their two bulls walk up and start goring each other to death. Then a rich, famous football player shoots himself in the leg and a bunch of animals stampede trying to get INTO a Wall-mart. I can understand a stampede to get out of a Wall-mart, but these sophisticates were trying to get IN.

:eek:
Happy Holidays!

F**k reality, I'll take the intraweb.

[phoenix 7]

I don't understand the vitriol and arrogance when it comes to gear either. It's petty.

But very little happens on TGP that I take seriously enough to let it bother me. At the end of the day, it's just an internet forum.

[Suproman77]

A Dumble & a D'Pergo walk into a bar...

The bartender says to the both of them, 'Hey, we have a lot of guitar players that come in here, so I don't want any trouble out of you guys.'

[Rumblefish]

I can understand if it's some young,immature turds getting into it online,but when it's middle-aged immature turds...that's really disappointing.:YinYang

[gkoelling]

I chalk it up to penis envy

Ummm......I think he was talking about a different type of gear. :)

However! I have this great boutique............

[semi-hollowbody]

MEH...MOST OF the heated gear discussions ive read on tgp resemble a couple of FRIENDS sitting atound, drinkin a beer, and talking smack..."your snow blower is a piece of garbage, did your wife buy it" LOL

After going on guitar, hockey, home improvement, and political forums, Ive developed a thick skin...I dont need someone to constantly remind me that what they are posting is their opinion...if someone says "fender amps are cheap garbage for hack players" I dont need to do research to know this is NOT fact, and it is just opinion...(i own fender amps by the way:))

I have been guilty of slamming some gear, mostly just the george l cables...but if someone tells me my planet waves are crap, i know its just opinion, I wont lose sleep over it, no hard feelings, I wont seek them out elsewhere and flame them, and I wont cry;)