Cut control vs. Presence control ?

[ROKY]

Is the Cut control circuit(a'la' Vox amps) a different concept from the presence circuit (Tweed/Blonde Fenders, Marshalls) ?

I realize one rolls off highs in the power amp, and the other taps highs
from the neg. feedback portion of the amp thus adding sparkle and
crunch .

BUT:

Is there a difference here, or is it fundamentally the same thing
electronically but going in opposite directions ?

Reason I'm asking is I have an amp that I want to have modified and
want to have both controls installed if it makes sense to do so - if
they aren't actually one-in-the-same ..

The amp in question is an early 70's Traynor MK.III head.
I want to have the tremelo circuit disconnected and use the speed
and intensity control pots as cut and presence knobs.

In normal mode I'd like to have the presence like a classic Marshall,
so I could roll the treble, back and add the ringing highs from the
neg. feedback loop/

There's a treble boost switch that makes the amp kind of like a
big Vox AC30 adding lots of high mids .. at which time I'd like to
have the cut control to roll off some highs in the pwr. section.

Thanks in advance to the tech minded folks, here, for your replies.

[RedMan]

Your best bet would probably be putting the cut pre PI.

[SatelliteAmps]

The cut control and a presence control from negative feedback are two different things. While some of the overall effect is similar, the way they do it is fundamentally different and affects the overall tone differently.

Some of the newer Vox's have both a cut and a presence control. They can work well together.

[ChickenLover]

ROKY, Keep in mind that in a Vox with a Cut control the amp has no NFB...none. If you put a typical Cut control in an amp with NFB it won't work very well because it is inside the NFB loop. So if you reduce highs by turning the Cut control...now less highs are being negatively fed back to the PI and the PI puts out MORE highs. If you consider 'Presence' and 'Cut' to be specific things (i.e. Presence as used in old Marshalls/etc. and 'Cut' as used in old Voxes) then IMO they aren't really compatible...one or the other (depending on the power section) but not both.

However, lots of amp companies put a completely different circuit in their amps but still label it 'Presence' or 'Cut'. The 'Presence' control for the Red Channel in a Mesa Dual Rectifier isn't a true 'Presence' control...it's just a treble bleed off of the tone stack.

So you can definitely have two controls, one labeled Presence and one labeled Cut, and have them serve similar purposes as the 'true' versions. One of them can be the true version but the other one will probably have to be something else.

[Roe]

the komet has both cut and presence - works well to