Don Felder's Book "Heaven and Hell"

[tommyg]

I just finished Don Felder's book "Heaven and Hell" and found it to be a really good read. He has a lot of respect for Henley but you can still tell he's bitter about Glenn Frey.

The part about the reunion was a real eye-open too! and the part about him smashing a Takemine after a show was hilarious!

Anyone read and have any thoughts on the book and the stories he tells?

[TNJ]

I lost alot of respect for Henley/Frey...but I guess I shouldnt be surprised.

Corporate America and Rock and Roll have shared the same bed for a very long time now.

That said...I think Felder comes off as a bit of a whiner, who always stirred the pot (between the lines).


S./
j

[fast ricky love]

I loved it too, and consider his POV to be entirely credible. I can see Frey and Henley being the snakes they are made out to be. I was so disappointed with Walsh and his reaction to Felder being cut!

[SnidelyWhiplash]

I'm no huge fan of the Eagles,but i thought the book was a good read.
I liked the way he portrayed Bernie Leadon & Randy Meisner. DF was
the best guitarist the Eagles ever had.

[Todd Lynch]

I recently finished Hotel California which is about the Laural Canyon music scene from the mid-60's to the late-70's - quite a few tid bits on the Eagles, etc. I've not read Felder's book, but wish to. I always dug Felder's guitar playing/parts (Leadon's too).

[mik777]

Don freaking Henley is a BIG HYPOCRITE!!!!

[Franklin]

I was so disappointed with Walsh and his reaction to Felder being cut!

What was Joe's reaction?

[Catoogie]

I thought the book was very good, I love Felder's playing. I didn't like how he treated the cheating on his wife thing, he sorta makes excuses for it.

Also, he becomes very 'poor, pitiful me' when he's now off the road and his wife is busy with her jewelry business. Wasn't she at home raising the kids for years while he was out touring the world, doing blow and ****ing groupies? Also, at one point he says something about "investing" money in her jewelry business. Wouldn't that be her money? They were married, half of his is hers.

Like I said, I liked the book but the end was sorta lame.

[telelion]

My reaction was that Henley and Frey were dickheads but we all knew that anyway. However I did feel that Felder did come off as a whiner and when in the end he was ready to cut any deal to stay a member he showed me he had no balls.

Felder got a good deal being granted a 100% membership after joining for the third album but to shaft him later on was inexcusable. Did Sting cut the other members of the Police when they reunited? Or does Phil Collins get more when he is in Genesis? Would John and Paul have docked George and Ringo if they reunited?

My point is that a good part of the sound of the early Eagles was Bernie Leadon. From the third album on, a very good part of the Eagles sound was Don Felder and he contributed far more than Frey when you come down to it, not to mention that if he did not write the music to "Hotel California" that the Eagles would be a tenth as big as they are now. So he did get screwed, he just played his hand bad. Felder does still get payed though as part of the deal.

[Smakutus]

My reaction was that Henley and Frey were dickheads but we all knew that anyway. However I did feel that Felder did come off as a whiner and when in the end he was ready to cut any deal to stay a member he showed me he had no balls.

Felder got a good deal being granted a 100% membership after joining for the third album but to shaft him later on was inexcusable. Did Sting cut the other members of the Police when they reunited?

I think it's interesting that Joe Walsh will not speak to him now. To me Felder came off as a major whiner in his book. He should have just shut up, played the music and cashed the checks.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Sting made more money then Andy and Stewart on their reunion tour. Hopefully I'm wrong but they're all set for life now anyways.

The reason the Grand Funk broke up again in the late 90's is that Farner wanted more money than the other two got.

Jeff

[fast ricky love]

What was Joe's reaction?

He basically was like 'Hey don't be a squeeky wheel, just play and get paid. It's the easiest way'.

And then he stopped associating with Felder afterwards.

I dunno, Felder is a talented guy who wanted more involvement than being a session player. I see his point entirely.

[GuitarsFromMars]

Anyone who perceives Felder as a whiner, needs to take a extremely careful look at Felder's output as an Eagle. He was in a very unhealthy relationship for a very long period of time. The Eagles were one of the best loved, and most profitable bands, on the planet, while they were together. Don Felder was promised a deal, 'the gods' reneged on that deal, kicked him out of the band, and subsequently got what they deserved in court.

[mr coffee]

there are interviews with felder on his book tour on YOUtube..
search for don felder..

[Jim85IROC]

I read the book and found it extremely interesting. To me he doesn't come off as a whiner at all... just somebody who's a bit upset with himself for staying in a bad situation for so long without trying to fix it. I had expected him to follow up the book with a solo album, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case. I'd really like to get more of his music!

[Cary Chilton]

I love the Eagles man. One of America's legendary bands for sure. Shitty about Felder, but that is what big egos including Felders can result in. To the Eagles defense, Timothy, Walsh, Don and Glenn have all written hits, too. In addition, they ARE the sound of the Eagles in the most paramount sense -VOCALS. Felder is probably equal to the skills of Walsh lead-wise and wrote their most popular tune ever- Hotel California which was revamped more by Henley and Frey before they finished it. If Felder didn't go up against the band demanding more royalties and stuff and pressing it to litigations, he would have definitely still been in the band making money.... so lesson learned the hard way I guess....

[trisonic]

What's weird is just how many photos of just himself are included in that book. Am I the only one to think it a little strange?

Best, Pete.

[Scott Peterson]

I read it, enjoyed reading it but until I read the other Eagle member's accounts I can't make a call on the personalities involved. We now know Don's side of the story; and it's a compelling one, but it's not the entire story at the same time.

It's pretty obvious where Don stands, right or wrong. I feel for the guy and have been a fan for as long as I can remember. But a lot of his issues (including his divorce, which to me is as much his fault as anyone's fault) are part and parcel with being an absentee for much of their life. Such is the life of a rock star.

[Zane]

Would John and Paul have docked George and Ringo if they reunited?


nah ...
Ringo WANTED to do "Thomas The Tank Engine" for a few years....
he had plenty of moola ;^)

[jtm622]

If old Joe avoids contact with Felder, it's most likely 'cause Felder put Joe "in the middle"...
IMO, experience has probably taught Joe that taking sides between two "warring factions" is not the best place to position himself at this point in his career... He's just very happy to be associated with "The Eagles" brand - which brings the opportunity to renew his career every few years.

[Gas-man]

My point is that a good part of the sound of the early Eagles was Bernie Leadon. From the third album on, a very good part of the Eagles sound was Don Felder and he contributed far more than Frey when you come down to it, not to mention that if he did not write the music to "Hotel California" that the Eagles would be a tenth as big as they are now. So he did get screwed, he just played his hand bad. Felder does still get payed though as part of the deal.

What else did he do that contributed so heavily to the Eagles sound?

The Eagles sound (as someone else pointed out) is about singing.

[JPF]

music is business
business is music
Eagles Inc.

"Hotel California" (the book, not the album) will provide a much broader background to Felder's story, in that the Eagles crashed the easy-going Laurel Canyon singer/soundwriter party scene with the grace and subtlety of a hostile corporate takeover. The Henley/Frey/Geffen triumvirate knew exactly what they wanted, and became captains of industry whilst their fellow talented musicians were passing the bong, man.

Different approaches, for sure, but regardless of which side of the rock-is-big-business fence we might sit on, it's hard to deny that the '60s and '70s were a wonderfully special and creative time for popular music.

[LocustXReign]

nah ...
Ringo WANTED to do "Thomas The Tank Engine" for a few years....
he had plenty of moola ;^)

HEY! I'm 21 now, and Ringo as Mr. Conductor was a very serious part of my childhood! Leave it alone maaaan, lol!


-DB

[LocustXReign]

What else did he do that contributed so heavily to the Eagles sound?

The Eagles sound (as someone else pointed out) is about singing.

My recording arts teacher is a guy named Eddie Mashal (take a look at the engineering credits on a good portion of Eagles recordings) and from the stories I've gotten outta him, he makes Felder's input during recording out to be a pretty integral part of the sound.

-DB

[Catoogie]

He should have just shut up, played the music and cashed the checks.


You obviously don't have any passion for music judging by that kind of thinking. Money is more important to you than your convictions or your love of music? Life is too short to be doing something you don't whole-heartedly believe in.

I think it's interesting that Joe Walsh will not speak to him now.

Why's that? Joe didn't have the financial security in The Eagles that Don Felder did and was willing to sell himself out to the band for a price. Don chose not to and was actually looking out for Joe Walsh and Tim Schmidt, he was a full member of the band and thought his clout would help serve them all better. They folded and left him hanging.

[Atmospheric]

Tim Schmidt joins for the last (very subpar) album and the Eagles revisionist history makes it seem as if he was the ONLY bassist they ever had.

Meisner wrote or co-wrote many of their biggest songs. How can they perform "Take It To The Limit" with a straight face after booting him out?

To me, the real Eagles will always be Frey, Henley, Leadon and Meisner. Everyone else is a hired gun (even Walsh).

YMMV.

And yeah... I dig Don Henley's songwriting, but I've heard he's a real dick to work with (his behind-the-back nickname is "Mr. Magoo" because he's so freaking blind).

[Smakutus]

You obviously don't have any passion for music judging by that kind of thinking. Money is more important to you than your convictions or your love of music? Life is too short to be doing something you don't whole-heartedly believe in.

Music is just one of the things I like to do.. But it has nothing to do with the way I feel about Don Felder here.

If just making music was as important to him as you think it is, he would have told those two assholes to f off and left them to do his own thing. Instead he was a pain in the ass to them over and over to the point to where they just had enough of him and told him to get lost. Then he cried and begged them to let him back in.


Why's that? Joe didn't have the financial security in The Eagles that Don Felder did and was willing to sell himself out to the band for a price. Don chose not to and was actually looking out for Joe Walsh and Tim Schmidt, he was a full member of the band and thought his clout would help serve them all better. They folded and left him hanging.If they had joined Felder in this they would all be gone now. Those guys were smart enough to realize who was buttering their bread the most.

You'd hope that Joe would have sat him down and told him to quit with the BS. Maybe he did and Don didn't listen.. Who knows for sure but both of those guys.

Felder can talk all he wants about song writing but how many hits has he had since the late 70's? I only know the one song on the Heavy Metal movie soundtrack that I ever heard on the radio. Joe Walsh has had way more hits than Don Felder.

Don Felder seems like a nice guy. Maybe too nice for the music business.

Jeff

[gtrfinder]

nah ...
Ringo WANTED to do "Thomas The Tank Engine" for a few years....
he had plenty of moola ;^)

Quote of the day!

[Boomer]

I enjoyed the book. I enjoy the Eagles. If the rest of them write books I'll read them too.

[korby]

I recently finished Hotel California which is about the Laural Canyon music scene from the mid-60's to the late-70's - quite a few tid bits on the Eagles, etc. I've not read Felder's book, but wish to. I always dug Felder's guitar playing/parts (Leadon's too).
Then you will love this . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAT2KldikME

[semi-hollowbody]

I gotta read it...I had the feeling felder was weak link to their current aspirations, he is a talented player and song writer, but they are more about pleasing the fans and playing old stuff...and felder didnt sing anything...if tim schmidt didnt sing "I cant tell you why" which is a HUGE crowd pleaser, he might have been replaced with a talented but cheap session player...and of course they would have had their reasons...
I knew Hennly was a **** but im surprised to hear Frey is also...I always pictured him as a cool dude...

The only two truly irreplacable eagles are frey and hennley...Joe Walsh is awesome but they could get away with canning him (I would not be happy about it)

[PSaulino]

Anyone who percieves Felder as a whiner,needs to take a extremely careful look at Felder's output as an Eagle.He was in a very unhealthy relationship for a very long period of time.The Eagles were one of the best loved,and most profitable bands',on the planet,while they were together.Don Felder was promised a deal,and 'the gods' reneged on that deal,kicked him out of the band,and subsequently,got what they deserved in court.



I agree with this post 100% - Felder was a HUGE part of their sound in the most successful period of output. Both as a writer and as a player. He was "cut in" for a reason - and Henly and and Frey knew it - that H&F "outgrew" everyone else is sad and representative of the way it works with egos.

P.

[PSaulino]

What else did he do that contributed so heavily to the Eagles sound?

The Eagles sound (as someone else pointed out) is about singing.



His sweet guitar playing is all over everything 1975 forward, not to mention his influence in the overall sound - THE signature sound that MADE this band.

P.

[GuitarsFromMars]

His sweet guitar playing is all over everything 1975 forward, not to mention his influence in the overall sound - THE signature sound that MADE this band.

P.

Felders chops/songs,are all over everything,in the Eagles songbook,from 'On the Border' onward,through 'The Long Run'.

[Strat]

[QUOTE=Catoogie;5120900]You obviously don't have any passion for music judging by that kind of thinking. Money is more important to you than your convictions or your love of music?

LOL !!! uhh..yeah...it's a profession. You know..a job ? Study hard for years, perfect one's craft and then go out and earn a living ? J-O-B


...funny stuff. But then hey -I've hated that band for over 30 years so what do I know ?

[Catoogie]

LOL !!! uhh..yeah...it's a profession. You know..a job ? Study hard for years, perfect one's craft and then go out and earn a living ? J-O-B


Jeez, I'd hate to be you. I NEVER view making music as a job. Even when I was making my living playing guitar I never viewed it that way. Most musicians I know play music because they don't have it in them to work a normal day gig.

There are creative, artistic people that play musicial instruments and then there are normal everyday people who play instruments, HUGE difference between the types of thinking. The everyday Joes can never truly comprehend why someone playing a gig that makes them astounding amounts of money, with fame and all that goes with it would want to rock the boat. It's not about the money. It's about making music and the thing you have to do, the thing that means more than anything to you.

You don't get it, and you never really will.

[gag halfrunt]

Jeez, I'd hate to be you. I NEVER view making music as a job. Even when I was making my living playing guitar I never viewed it that way. Most musicians I know play music because they don't have it in them to work a normal day gig.

There are creative, artistic people that play musicial instruments and then there are normal everyday people who play instruments, HUGE difference between the types of thinking. The everyday Joes can never truly comprehend why someone playing a gig that makes them astounding amounts of money, with fame and all that goes with it would want to rock the boat. It's not about the money. It's about making music and the thing you have to do, the thing that means more than anything to you.

You don't get it, and you never really will.
Wow, it must be nice being better than everybody else...

Don't break a leg climbing down from your high horse. :)

[Benclown]

As far as money goes.Sting got the bigger cut of the BestBuy pie of the 3 Police for the re-union.Sting wouldn't do the re-union if Miles (Stewart's)brother was managing.Stewart's...(mostly Miles) family was bitter except for Stewart who had waited patiently for 20 years to play those songs again.

[QUOTE Did Sting cut the other members of the Police when they reunited? Or does Phil Collins get more when he is in Genesis? Would John and Paul have docked George and Ringo if they reunited?

deal.[/QUOTE]

[GuitarsFromMars]

Wow, it must be nice being better than everybody else...

Don't break a leg climbing down from your high horse. :)

not very nice,or reasonable.

[telelion]

As far as money goes.Sting got the bigger cut of the BestBuy pie of the 3 Police for the re-union.Sting wouldn't do the re-union if Miles (Stewart's)brother was managing.Stewart's...(mostly Miles) family was bitter except for Stewart who had waited patiently for 20 years to play those songs again.

[QUOTE Did Sting cut the other members of the Police when they reunited? Or does Phil Collins get more when he is in Genesis? Would John and Paul have docked George and Ringo if they reunited?

deal.[/quote]

I did not know that. Not surprised about the management deal though. You are saying that Sting gets more at each gig than the rest or is the BestBuy reference to a video or something?

[gag halfrunt]

not very nice,or reasonable.
Granted, it was a little sharp, but eminently reasonable.

I was pointing out the arrogant condescension in the other person's post.

[Catoogie]

I was pointing out the arrogant condescension in the other person's post.

Really? I don't think I was being arrogant or condescending. I was only explaining the thinking of someone who wouldn't be willing to shut up and take the money for playing a gig that was fulfilling them creatively. Some people here can't imagine that sort of thinking and I was trying to give my side of it. I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else, I think there are many other musicians who share the same view as I do.

[Atmospheric]

Around the Holidays, many of the churches I've played in bring on paid ringers. Over the years, I've found it an interesting glimpse into the psyche of the average vocational musician. Many, (not all, but definitely the majority) will happily denigrate the gig in the green room, saying stuff like, "Ah, this is just a P+W gig. I can do this stuff in my sleep. Now, if it was a jazz gig, that would be cool."

I get it. It's your job. I also think it's kind of sad.

I'm thankful that I can relate to the whole experience differently.

My .02; YMMV.

Granted, it was a little sharp, but eminently reasonable.

I was pointing out the arrogant condescension in the other person's post.

[Catoogie]

Around the Holidays, many of the churches I've played in bring on paid ringers.

Is is because they feel the need to pump up the 'quality' when more eyes are on them or because the players who are dedicating themselves to the church every week aren't available as much?

[Atmospheric]

A lot of times, it's adding horns to the mix. Most MDs I know won't use amateur horn players because of intonation problems.

In some other cases, it's wanting to put what they consider to be their best foot forward. I get it.

Of course "best" depends on what one considers "good music" to be. Is it emotional depth and honesty? Or is it slick, utterly repeatable consistency?

While these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive disciplines, most of the time "good" is viewed to be more the latter than the former.

I get it. Most folks would rather hear a soulless note for note copy of a record they aleady know, rather than hear someone say something personal. For those situations, a proficient vocational musician is the right guy for the job.

Is is because they feel the need to pump up the 'quality' when more eyes are on them or because the players who are dedicating themselves to the church every week aren't available as much?

[gag halfrunt]

Really? I don't think I was being arrogant or condescending. I was only explaining the thinking of someone who wouldn't be willing to shut up and take the money for playing a gig that was fulfilling them creatively. Some people here can't imagine that sort of thinking and I was trying to give my side of it. I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else, I think there are many other musicians who share the same view as I do.
The way it came across (to me, anyway) was that you and some others are artistic and creative musicians. The other person you were addressing was not artistic and creative, because of his perspective on music sometimes being just a job.

Maybe I read too much into it. If I did, then I apologize. I was railing against the idea that exists in our community that some musicians just aren't artistic enough, and somehow lesser people/musicians because of it. It's a very condescending idea, and those who espouse it don't seem to mind dismissing others out of hand, as if ALL of the more 'practical' musicians were unfeeling robots.

[MBreinin]

Jeez, I'd hate to be you.

Arrogant.


There are creative, artistic people that play musicial instruments and then there are normal everyday people who play instruments, HUGE difference between the types of thinking.

Arrogant.


The everyday Joes can never truly comprehend why someone playing a gig that makes them astounding amounts of money, with fame and all that goes with it would want to rock the boat.

Condescending.

You don't get it, and you never really will.

Arrogant AND Condescending.

Mike

[T.Wesley]

You guys need to knock the petty back-and-forth crap off or this thread's going to disappear.

--chiba

[mark norwine]

To me, the real Eagles will always be Frey, Henley, Leadon and Meisner. Everyone else is a hired gun (even Walsh).

YMMV.

My mileage doesn't vary one iota!:BEER

[Catoogie]

I can never convince you because you are (EDITED: I believe you to be, judging soley by your responses to my opinion) the exact type of person I'm refering to. It's not meant as an insult or a slight or to me make me feel superior or you inferior. There's nothing wrong with someone not feeling about it the same way I do, it's a differing of views creative type people versus non-creative type people. My mom was a non-creative type person, I still love her and think she's amazing and smart and my favorite person ever.

Arrogant.




Arrogant.




Condescending.



Arrogant AND Condescending.

Mike

[Benclown]

Bestbuy(the chain) bought and paid for the tour up front in exchange for exclusive rights to promote its brand and sell the live record/dvd as well as any other thing they could get away with.They(the Police) had divided up the dough before they played a note.Sting got the biggest piece of the pie.




I did not know that. Not surprised about the management deal though. You are saying that Sting gets more at each gig than the rest or is the BestBuy reference to a video or something?[/QUOTE]

[StanG]

90% of artistic "inspiration" is craft. When you make comments that are value judgements about artistic "integrity",, etc. vs. playing for the money, please stop for a moment and think about the millions of people who work every day at a job they hate, or at best, tolerate, while being thankful they have the means to feed and clothe and house their families.

[Catoogie]

I'm not talking about people who "work every day at a job they hate, or at best, tolerate, while being thankful they have the means to feed and clothe and house their families". That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is someone who isn't as emotionally invested in music, doesn't feel the need to play as deeply as someone else. Music doesn't resonate in them the same way as a person who would rather not play music, than play something they weren't fully believing in.

There are tons of people out there who just love to play the instrument, they don't care what kind of music they play, as long as they're playing. Then there are people like me who no matter how much money you throw at them, can't be convinced to do something they wouldn't agree to if money wasn't involved.

There are too many people in this world who operate from the "everyone has their price" angle. That is completely not true. I would rather go back to laying blacktop or roofing than play music I'm not into. I never want to tarnish or lose the magical feeling I get when making music. I've played those gigs in the past and I never felt fulfilled or good about myself or my contributions afterwards. I view being able to create music, to be able to express myself through a musical instrument is so much more than a talent you can earn money from. It gives me so much pure joy that I neve want to exploit it. That's me. And again, I know there will be lots of people who can't relate to that type of thinking. Then there are others who will. I believe, it is my belief that those are the two types of people.

[Catoogie]

After reading my diatribe I got to thinking about a good friend of mine and how he just LOVES to play. He's a great musician, he's not a very creative type of person but he's a really strong player and really gets into it when he plays, who am I to say he doesn't feel it as deeply as someone else. Sorry for that.

Money isn't everything.

[MBreinin]

I can never convince you because you are (EDITED: I believe you to be, judging soley by your responses to my opinion) the exact type of person I'm refering to. It's not meant as an insult or a slight or to me make me feel superior or you inferior. There's nothing wrong with someone not feeling about it the same way I do, it's a differing of views creative type people versus non-creative type people. My mom was a non-creative type person, I still love her and think she's amazing and smart and my favorite person ever.

WRONG. But, by the same token, I am not going to convince you either.

[CDaughtry]

The Eagles seem a lot to me like a really bad marriage that has really great sex in it. The participants don't really like each other, would never voluntarily hang out with each other just for grins, but damnit...the sex is GREAT!


Personally like them or not, at their peak, they certainly painted a large part of the musical landscape of my life.

[semi-hollowbody]

The Eagles seem a lot to me like a really bad marriage that has really great sex in it...
I like that...good analogy!!:)

[Gas-man]

I'm not being arrogant or condescending, but all you people are beneath me and my opinion and takes and wishes and desires and thoughts.

Sure, you may think. But those thoughts are inferior. Sure, you may feel, but those feelings are shallow compared to mine.

Your mileage varies because it's not right, like mine.

[Catoogie]

I'm not being arrogant or condescending, but all you people are beneath me and my opinion and takes and wishes and desires and thoughts.

Sure, you may think. But those thoughts are inferior. Sure, you may feel, but those feelings are shallow compared to mine.

Your mileage varies because it's not right, like mine.

I never said that. In fact I addressed this already. I don't feel my way of thinking is superior or inferior, it is what it is. You may now continue to ignore the parts of my posts that don't fuel your argument.

[Catoogie]

WRONG. But, by the same token, I am not going to convince you either.

We're not gonna convince one another and I wasn't attempting to try and sway anyone to my way of thinking (not that I believe that is even possible) only try to have someone acknowledge there are two types of thinking. Neither one right or wrong.

Although I hate this saying, let's agree to disagree.

[paul p]

I enjoyed the book.

[ericjohnschwab]

Felders chops/songs,are all over everything,in the Eagles songbook,from 'On the Border' onward,through 'The Long Run'.

Felder was the best guitarist they had. He even slayed Walsh.

[DrumBob]

I'm reading it now. Just bought it yesterday with a coupon I had at Borders, but I did read the section about his firing from the band first, and Felder was treated extremely badly by those two blow-snorting jerkoffs. I really have grown to dislike Henley and Frey.

A similar scene occurred when Chicago fired drummer Danny Seraphine. I did the first interview with Danny right before he came out of retirement for a drum magazine I was writing for at the time. It took him 15 years to regain his confidence as a drummer and return to playing professionally. He was as good as destroyed by the experience. Being fired from a highy successful band is like experiencing a loss akin to the death of a loved one. Danny really opened up to me and told me lot of what he went through in those 15 years.

Felder is not a whiner by any means. He was royally sh** on by
"the gods." Those despicable scumballs.

[SteveO]

I have the Felder book, and have read one other Eagles bio written by someone not associated with the band (can't remember the author or title). Both books tell a similar story.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I think it's interesting that Joe Walsh will not speak to him now. To me Felder came off as a major whiner in his book. He should have just shut up, played the music and cashed the checks.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Sting made more money then Andy and Stewart on their reunion tour. Hopefully I'm wrong but they're all set for life now anyways.

The reason the Grand Funk broke up again in the late 90's is that Farner wanted more money than the other two got.

Jeff


Right, but in Farner's case, he wrote and sang 90% of the songs that put them on the map.... that and being the front man, I'd say that wasn't unreasonable. Same deal with Sting. With the Eagles, it's another deal altogether, and yep Felder should have realized he was replacable.

[telecopter]

I enjoyed the book although I quit really listening to the band around Hotel Calif. time. I prefer the country rock sound that they had.

I'm a big Joe Walsh fan, but I never thought that he was a good fit.

[semi-hollowbody]

I enjoyed the book although I quit really listening to the band around Hotel Calif. time. I prefer the country rock sound that they had.

I'm a big Joe Walsh fan, but I never thought that he was a good fit.
really?? He is probably the only reason i even own eagles albums... sure they had some pre-walsh hits, but imo their best work was done with him...

I really need to read this book...

[BassProCamaro97]

I read the book when it first came out. obviously it's biased since it's told from Don's point of view but I really enjoyed the read. With all that's been written about Fry and Henley I have no doubt most of,if not all of this book is true.

He was as good as destroyed by the experience. Being fired from a highy successful band is like experiencing a loss akin to the death of a loved one.

I recently read Dave Mustaine's book and your quote pretty much says it all for both Don F. and Dave M about being dropped from a hit band. I'm sure there are others also but those two came to mind when I read that.

I'm really surprised by the loss of friendship with Joe Walsh but I wouldn't be surprised if there is more there then what was written about.

~Jim~

[guitkrazy]

I recently read the book and found it a very good read. Speaking from experience, any and all bands have different personalities and egos. The way I view the Eagles as musicians is that they are extremely talented and their music is timeless and classic. What Felder did was shed some light on the "behind the scenes" of The Eagles. Henley and Frey definately as it seems took control. Felder is from my take on the book was like many of us musicians who like playing and putting out the best product you can- and due to the fact that he was easy going and really didn't rash or interject Henley and Frey's actions or decisions only enabled or fed the beast (or as H&F were referred to as The Gods). I believe that Felder's dismissal was due to the fact that he did begin to speak up and question the actions, but it was too late. I do feel bad for him. Departing from a band is much like a divorce; A line is made and sides will be taken, You as the departed must look ahead and move forward. I think Felder misses the band and I believe the band is not as strong now, but you must move forward. The book is definately worth reading.

[franksguitar]

I've read a few books about the Eagles and also Felder's book and Henley/Frey thing. Alot of this reminds me of what Axl Rose did and the original Guns & Roses of once partners that based on egos' & corporate greed and manipulation, relegate other player's to just "hired guns" and specific rules regardless of hit contributions.

[zestystrat]

Felder was treated extremely badly by those two blow-snorting jerkoffs. I really have grown to dislike Henley and Frey.


I know what will make you feel better, some Yacht Rock with the Gods getting smacked around by Steely Dan:

yb_XEwgfmDk

[motis1953]

I recently read the book and thought Mr. Felder came off as a very truthful person.

[Chrome Dinette]

When I saw the thread title, I was hoping Felder had written a book about Black Sabbath.

[shredtrash]

I recently finished Hotel California which is about the Laural Canyon music scene from the mid-60's to the late-70's - quite a few tid bits on the Eagles, etc. I've not read Felder's book, but wish to. I always dug Felder's guitar playing/parts (Leadon's too).

That was a great book!

As a long time Eagles fan, I'd really like to read "Heaven and Hell".

[Droptop]

I just finished the book and while I do think that Don Felder is an amazing talent, I too felt that some information was missing. I lost all respect for Glenn Fry, but thought that Henley was nowhere as bad as he was made out to be. In the end Felder sounded like a girl whinning to her friends about her asshole boyfriend who just dumped her. Again, Don is an amazing talent and I hope he is able to find happiness.

[Lucidology]

Follow this book up with "laura Canyon" ... everyone is covered from the L.A. sence in that book...
Including the Eagles

[Droptop]

Follow this book up with "laura Canyon" ... everyone is covered from the L.A. sence in that book...
Including the Eagles

Any further insight?

[Catoogie]

I recently read the book and thought Mr. Felder came off as a very truthful person.

Except in the end when it came to his wife's business and how he 'invested' in it. You don't invest in your wife's business, your money is her money. He acted surprised that after years and years of him being on the road partying and being unfaithful while she stayed at home holding down the fort and raising their kids that she would want to do something for herself and make her own life instead of waiting around for him.

All in all I thought it was a good book but he came off in the end like a clueless, crybaby. Again, in my opinion. AMAZING guitar player though.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Felder was the best guitarist they had. He even slayed Walsh.


Good guitar player, yes. Slayed Walsh, no. :red

really?? He is probably the only reason i even own eagles albums... sure they had some pre-walsh hits, but imo their best work was done with him...

I really need to read this book...

I thought that Joe's songs sounded like Joe Walsh rather than the Eagles. ' In the City ' for example..... great tune! I always thought it was Joe Walsh and was surprised to find it was the Eagles. Even so, what a great musician and he was a good addition to the Eagles ..... that slide guitar he does was a nice fit.

[kinggabbo]

"Good Day In Hell"---'nuff said.

[Droptop]

All in all I thought it was a good book but he came off in the end like a clueless, crybaby. Again, in my opinion. AMAZING guitar player though.

I agree. In the end it seemed like he was dishing as much dirt as he could on all of the remaining members to get back at them.

[Catoogie]

Follow this book up with "laura Canyon" ... everyone is covered from the L.A. sence in that book...
Including the Eagles

Do you mean Laurel Canyon? If so, I read the book and as much as I wanted to love it, I really didn't. The author seemed like he didn't have enough about Laurel Canyon to write about so he took these long detours about drugs and drug culture that were too involved and took the story too far away from the subject of Laurel Canyon. I have always had a rabid fascination regarding that area and I was HUGELY disappointed.

[John C]

Good guitar player, yes. Slayed Walsh, no. :red



I thought that Joe's songs sounded like Joe Walsh rather than the Eagles. ' In the City ' for example..... great tune! I always thought it was Joe Walsh and was surprised to find it was the Eagles. Even so, what a great musician and he was a good addition to the Eagles ..... that slide guitar he does was a nice fit.

Because it was a Joe Walsh solo song redone by the Eagles. It was first done by Joe solo on "The Warriors" soundtrack. I believe that his sideman contract with the Eagles mandated that he bring a song to "The Long Run" sessions; Joe just brought "In The City". The main difference is the Eagles version adds additional background vocals and Joe's main vocal sounds a bit "calmer" or "smoother" - it sounds a bit more like he is closer to screaming some of the vocals on "The Warriors" version.

Timothy B. Schmidt had the same deal with his sideman contract; he brought "I Can't Tell You Why" as his tune for the record.

By the way, my wife and I saw them here (the opening of the new arena) on 10/16; they still have 95% of the vocal chops - they just lowered some of the high notes and didn't appear to be tuning down. While I think Don Felder got a raw business deal, Steuart Smith sure does nice work filling in for him. Also Don Henley has now become their 4th guitarist; he never got behind a drum kit, but he did play behind more of a "stand up percussion" kit with congas, cymbles, and a few drums.

[kingsxman]

Good stuff

[Willie Johnson]

I will preface my thoughts by saying that Felder is one of my favorite guitar players because he consistently came up with great riffs and hooks. I realize that all things must change and if the other members of the band wanted him out and they wanted to replace him ….then OK. However, I have two problems with what “The Gods” did. First of all the way they went about trying to cut him out of what was (in my opinion) rightfully his. He fought them on that issue and got his day in court. But, the biggest slap in the face to me was that they replaced him with Steuart Smith and “demanded” that Steuart play Felder’s parts note for note. Steuart is a fabulous musician and could have come up with his own parts but apparently “The Gods” knew that Felder’s parts were irreplaceable. That, I think, is a huge statement about how much Felder’s playing has shaped the sound of the band.

[paul p]

I will preface my thoughts by saying that Felder is one of my favorite guitar players because he consistently came up with great riffs and hooks. I realize that all things must change and if the other members of the band wanted him out and they wanted to replace him ….then OK. However, I have two problems with what “The Gods” did. First of all the way they went about trying to cut him out of what was (in my opinion) rightfully his. He fought them on that issue and got his day in court. But, the biggest slap in the face to me was that they replaced him with Steuart Smith and “demanded” that Steuart play Felder’s parts note for note. Steuart is a fabulous musician and could have come up with his own parts but apparently “The Gods” knew that Felder’s parts were irreplaceable. That, I think, is a huge statement about how much Felder’s playing has shaped the sound of the band.

Well said Willie. :aok

[Droptop]

Even Felder comments on how the "gods" kept the rest of the band from moving around or changing any of the songs for the concerts. The one exception being the new intro that he added to Hotel California for the Hell Freezes Over Tour. Personally, a concert lacking any visual stimulus where the playing is exactly like the record bores me to tears. Especially at the price they were charging for their shows.

[semi-hollowbody]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I finally read the book...
As I mentioned before, I always thought henley was a douche and frey was cool...I grew up in metro detroit and actually used to know one of freys cousins...she had a LOT of inside info that painted frey as a cool guy, and henley as the dick...

After reading the book, I think frey was a bigger douche than henley...not by much...

I was also very disappointed in Walsh...but he chose to be a hired gun over his friendship I guess

Tim I cant blame him...he skated into a good paying gig at the end of their studio success, I wouldnt jeapordize that either...

Felder seemed like a nice guy...made a lot of bad decisions..very talented...it was a great read and Ive been listening to alot of eagles lately...although I would never spend another dime on them after reading the book...i would definitely like to see a frey or henley book...although most of it would probably be fiction!

[gmann]

Big Eagles fan, big fan of Felder's playin' too. I read the book, and I think he's a whiner. Haven't we all been in bands with someone who is talented but eventually just gets to be more trouble than their worth? In bands that get that big it eventually gets down to the songwriters, the guys that deliver the goods that make people buy the records. As an example, Fleetwood Mac. The guys that the band is named after are just the rhythm sect. for a talented group of singer/songwriters. As good as they are they could theoretically be replaced and we wouldn't know, it's the singers and the songs we focus on. For most of us here on theTGP it's the guitar playin' that we focus on but for most of the record buyin' public it's the songs, the singers and in this case those Eagles harmonies. Felder didn't really contribute in this area. Yeah, Hotel California is a great song but it's great because they, Frey and Henley, changed the key and added lyrics and along with the harmonies made it into the hit that it became. On his own w/o The Eagles that song would never have been heard. Everybody posts in this thread as if they really knew what went on in that band. They don't, I don't either. Lotsa "I've always heard Frey and Henley were assholes''. My personal feeling is that they did not take firing Felder lightly. He did contribute and was an integral part of the band for many yrs. It's just that over time he became more of a liability than an asset. The Frey and Henley just want all the money is a way too easy and convenient explanation. There's 5 guys that know the real story, 7 if you count Meisner and Leadon, my favorite period of the band btw. Everything else is heresay and speculation. It's always easy to find someone to blame and be the asshole. Felder's 'I don't know what happened, I'm a nice guy' shtick is lame. He says that he won the lawsuit and now he gets to play Eagles songs. Hey dickhead, you used to be in The Eagles, now you're in an Eagles cover band! Way to think it thru Don. Btw, I play Eagles songs and I didn't have to sue anybody to do it. I sure hope Henely doesn't find out 'cause we all know what an asshole he is! Then he writes a tell all book, very classy. I'm thinkin' it's all about money. Randy & Bernie are you listening? Felders a great guitarist and that's where it ends really. LA's full of 'em. Steurt Smith has no problem playin' his parts. And yes his parts are an itegral part of the band but it could have been any hotshot LA guitar player. Don was lucky as w/o The Eagles most of us would never have heard of him. Maybe someone could start an 'I hate Don and Glenn thread, that would be fun.

[semi-hollowbody]

^great points...If you think about it, who would sell more tickets:
1) Tim, Walsh, and Felder playing eagles hits
2) Henley and Frey playing eagles hits??

And yes Felder wrote hotel california...but there were a lot of ghost writers as well...Jackson Brown, JD Souther, Bob Segar...

I did think Felder was a little bit of a whiner...but you cant fault the guy for wanting to be an integral part of the band he helped make huge...

I watched the "hell Freezes Over" dvd last night and felder was right...most of the video was henley and frey, a little bit of walsh, and VERY little of felder...

Felder isnt the only one claiming henley and frey are douche bags...im sure Leadon and Meisner would agree with him...but they wouldnt write a tell all book ;)

[Lotis]

I liked it and thought he was quite genuine...not a whiner. It has to hurt bad when you get kicked out of a band you helped define.

[Fred Farkus]

I enjoyed the book although I quit really listening to the band around Hotel Calif. time. I prefer the country rock sound that they had.

I'm a big Joe Walsh fan, but I never thought that he was a good fit.

Agreed.

The Eagles were a fun little cowboy band on their early records and were enoyable to listen to. Bernie Leadon was "the man" back then as far as I was concerned and made it all work. Then they started taking themselves too seriously and become just another trite and banal band of douches. Felder didn't do a thing for me, and Walsh was better on his own. I loved Walsh's solo career before he joined them and always felt he had more talent in his little finger than the rest of the Eagles collectively. Business wise I suppose it was a good move for him as it allowed him to sustain his career more easily, but musically it was a big yawn AFAIC. Don Felder?? Not even on my radar screen... I saw the Eagles live in '76 and just about fell asleep.

[guitarz1972]

Read one time that toward the end of a show on "The Long Run" tour Felder leaned over to Frey and said something like "One song to go man, then I'm kicking your ---." Probably wasn't ever very much love lost between those guys.

[Gas-man]

Big Eagles fan, big fan of Felder's playin' too. I read the book, and I think he's a whiner. Haven't we all been in bands with someone who is talented but eventually just gets to be more trouble than their worth? In bands that get that big it eventually gets down to the songwriters, the guys that deliver the goods that make people buy the records. As an example, Fleetwood Mac. The guys that the band is named after are just the rhythm sect. for a talented group of singer/songwriters. As good as they are they could theoretically be replaced and we wouldn't know, it's the singers and the songs we focus on. For most of us here on theTGP it's the guitar playin' that we focus on but for most of the record buyin' public it's the songs, the singers and in this case those Eagles harmonies. Felder didn't really contribute in this area. Yeah, Hotel California is a great song but it's great because they, Frey and Henley, changed the key and added lyrics and along with the harmonies made it into the hit that it became. On his own w/o The Eagles that song would never have been heard. Everybody posts in this thread as if they really knew what went on in that band. They don't, I don't either. Lotsa "I've always heard Frey and Henley were assholes''. My personal feeling is that they did not take firing Felder lightly. He did contribute and was an integral part of the band for many yrs. It's just that over time he became more of a liability than an asset. The Frey and Henley just want all the money is a way too easy and convenient explanation. There's 5 guys that know the real story, 7 if you count Meisner and Leadon, my favorite period of the band btw. Everything else is heresay and speculation. It's always easy to find someone to blame and be the asshole. Felder's 'I don't know what happened, I'm a nice guy' shtick is lame. He says that he won the lawsuit and now he gets to play Eagles songs. Hey dickhead, you used to be in The Eagles, now you're in an Eagles cover band! Way to think it thru Don. Btw, I play Eagles songs and I didn't have to sue anybody to do it. I sure hope Henely doesn't find out 'cause we all know what an asshole he is! Then he writes a tell all book, very classy. I'm thinkin' it's all about money. Randy & Bernie are you listening? Felders a great guitarist and that's where it ends really. LA's full of 'em. Steurt Smith has no problem playin' his parts. And yes his parts are an itegral part of the band but it could have been any hotshot LA guitar player. Don was lucky as w/o The Eagles most of us would never have heard of him. Maybe someone could start an 'I hate Don and Glenn thread, that would be fun.

That is why I say if you only play guitar, Know Your Place.

Don didn't and it cost him.

Knowing Your Place means you have to eat some crap from the guys who write and sing the songs sometimes and you won't always be treated as an equal, because, well, you're not.

[guitarz1972]

That is why I say if you only play guitar, Know Your Place.

Don didn't and it cost him.

Knowing Your Place means you have to eat some crap from the guys who write and sing the songs sometimes and you won't always be treated as an equal, because, well, you're not.

In a perfect world of course, we'd say that's completely bogus. But alas it's not a perfect world, so I say "good point." :)

[bab]

That is why I say if you only play guitar, Know Your Place.

Don didn't and it cost him.

Knowing Your Place means you have to eat some crap from the guys who write and sing the songs sometimes and you won't always be treated as an equal, because, well, you're not.
I thought Felder wrote the music to Hotel California. Wasn't that the song that "made" them into a household name?

[gillman royce]

The book is a really good read and is an eye opener for anyone coming up in the ranks. I never liked the Eagles much as I knew from insiders that Henley & Frey were only in it for the money, which always leads to a revolving door situation and usually the music suffers. I agree with the post which stated that he didn't see Joe Walsh as a fit. Another excellent, eye opening read is Chuck Negron 's autobiography 3 Dog Nightmare

[2HBStrat]

.... Felders a great guitarist and that's where it ends really. LA's full of 'em. Steurt Smith has no problem playin' his parts. And yes his parts are an itegral part of the band but it could have been any hotshot LA guitar player. ....

People can play those parts, sure, but who WROTE them?!? Using that logic then anyone in ANY big name band can be replaced with a hotshot LA guitar player. I'm sure George Harrison's licks would have been EASY for anybody to write and play.:bonk NOT!

[MKB]

It was a good read. However the big thing that stuck out to me was how Felder pursued fame all he could, and destroyed his marriage in the process. He was a bad boy on the road, and came home stoned a lot of the time while his wife was raising the kids as almost a single parent, then he whined about how she became independent with her business later on. He reaped what he sowed.

Also, with all the delight he took in his riches, and in buying his kids all sorts of expensive toys, the toys did not make up for his not being there. And he seemed surprised when his son became rebellious.

Now I am a big Felder fan, and recognize his contribution in the band, but from a 20,000' view one thing stands out: the one of two mistakes the Eagles made was to bring in Felder as an equal partner. It just didn't fit in with the attitude the "gods" and Azoff had from early on, and they had a good deal of success before Felder. Maybe they needed him but couldn't get him without making him a full member.

The second mistake was firing him like they did. Big stupid move. They basically handed Felder a blank check.

It's fairly obvious that in many bands, if you are not a featured vocalist, you are expendable and far more replaceable. Meisner wasn't fired, he quit. Another way to look at it is to examine the post-Eagles successes of the various members. Walsh is a bit of an exception as he had two successful careers (solo and James Gang) before the Eagles. I suppose Schmidt is an exception also, as he had success with Poco. The only real success Felder had outside of the Eagles was with the Heavy Metal movie.

[Lution]

Tim Schmidt joins for the last (very subpar) album and the Eagles revisionist history makes it seem as if he was the ONLY bassist they ever had.

Meisner wrote or co-wrote many of their biggest songs. How can they perform "Take It To The Limit" with a straight face after booting him out?

To me, the real Eagles will always be Frey, Henley, Leadon and Meisner. Everyone else is a hired gun (even Walsh).

YMMV.

And yeah... I dig Don Henley's songwriting, but I've heard he's a real dick to work with (his behind-the-back nickname is "Mr. Magoo" because he's so freaking blind).

agree with all of this, especially the bold part.

[acguitar84]

People can play those parts, sure, but who WROTE them?!? Using that logic then anyone in ANY big name band can be replaced with a hotshot LA guitar player. I'm sure George Harrison's licks would have been EASY for anybody to write and play.:bonk NOT!

you beat me to it! I was thinking the same thing. It's one thing to play someone else's parts, and totally another to come up with those parts. I love Felder's playing...and his creativity!! I need to snag a copy of this book.

[Lution]

Another way to look at it is to examine the post-Eagles successes of the various members. Walsh is a bit of an exception as he had two successful careers (solo and James Gang) before the Eagles. I suppose Schmidt is an exception also, as he had success with Poco. The only real success Felder had outside of the Eagles was with the Heavy Metal movie.

Just an FYI, Randy wrote and recorded a couple of solo hits after leaving the Eagles: Hearts on Fire, Never Been in Love, Deep Inside my Heart. . . so yeah, Meisner was no doormat. He didn't have as much success as Frey and Henley in their solo careers, but he did enjoy some success before with Poco and after.

[Lution]

Cool version of Take it To The Limit . . . who is the lead guitarist? what a smoking solo!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4007805814868197307

[tiktok]

I read the book and concluded that Felder earned his musical props, earned his divorce, and that Glen Frey is not someone I'd want to share an elevator with.

[gmann]

People can play those parts, sure, but who WROTE them?!? Using that logic then anyone in ANY big name band can be replaced with a hotshot LA guitar player. I'm sure George Harrison's licks would have been EASY for anybody to write and play.:bonk NOT!
Well I see your point. No one could have written those particular licks and I did say I was a big fan of Felders playin' and that he did contribute to the band. As for Harrison, you just cannot seperate his licks fm those songs. The Beatles were those 4 particular guys, inseparable. The Eagles had success before Felder. As evidenced by the departures of Randy and Bernie, Eagles members were replaceable with the exception of Don & Glenn. When they decided to add another guitar player, if they hadn't gotten Don it would have been someone else and we'd be learning those licks and talkin' about how great a guitar player 'whomever' is. Joe Walsh was actually asked back then but had committments and his solo career was happening and he turned it down. Had Felder not joined we wouldn't have Hotel California but things would have played out more or less the same. Different but yet not so different probably. I still maintain that nobody really knows what went on and that it's easy to blame the Gods and not their hot licks guitar player. The reality is probably lotsa blame, and enough to go around several times.

[gmann]

Read one time that toward the end of a show on "The Long Run" tour Felder leaned over to Frey and said something like "One song to go man, then I'm kicking your ---." Probably wasn't ever very much love lost between those guys.

That was Frey to Meisner at the last show in Santa Monica. They had been going at it for most of the tour, the trouble starting with Randy not wanting to sing Take It To The Limit cause it hurt his throat. I don't really know as I wasn't there but I read it in the book 'Life In The Fast Lane'. Randy didn't get fired but the writing was on the wall after that. This is a very good book btw. Probably half truth, half fiction, much like Felders book.

[BarryE]

There was one part in the book that said Frey was real pissed at Felder for wanting an accounting of the band's money, Frey says something to the account he never wants to hear from the accountant ever again. Given the timing, right about when Felder was splitting from his wife, I wonder if it was the divorce precedings that forced Felder to have to account for his assets and want to open the books. That seemed to be when stuff heated up and he was fired. Maybe I misread that.

[telelion]

I thought Felder wrote the music to Hotel California. Wasn't that the song that "made" them into a household name?

I totally agree though tremendous props to Henley's lyrics as well but he needed the music or no HC.

I am big fan from the Leadon era for the record and think that Henley and Frey were overly generous in granting Felder full partnership but they did. He delivered bigtime so to then cut him out to me is unethical, greedy, and sleazy.

Someone else stated that without Hotel California their career would have been pretty much the same. IMO, no way. That one song defined them and made them ten times bigger at the time, and historically. They would have been regarded as a good singles group without it IMO. Other than the HC LP, and this is from a big fan, they were not a great group for LP's. Just as the follow-up, "The Long Run", proved, even considered a failure by the band, and the recent "Long Road Out of Eden" is highly forgettable IMO. The best song, "How Long" by Souther was written and should have been covered in the Leadon era.

Also, for me the best part of the "Long Run" on the entire LP was the brilliant and incredibly under-rated guitar arrangement from Felder on the title cut. Truly amazing work. It made the song. Yeah, sure, some LA hotshot studio player would have come up with that. I don't think so. But I do agree on some issues of the whining and failure in his personal life.

[Gas-man]

From a writing standpoint, what else did Felder come up with during his stint besides the music to HC?

I'm not talking about guitar parts here.

[JPF]

Listen to "Times We Used To Know" by Jethro Tull, who toured with the Eagles in '71-'72 - before Hotel California was written...

Ian Anderson is quite laid-back about it - search YouTube and you'll find another twist to the story of how Hotel California was born.

[rog951]

From a writing standpoint, what else did Felder come up with during his stint besides the music to HC?

I'm not talking about guitar parts here.

I don't think he really ever wrote any decent lyrics. You know, like that schlub Beethoven!

[EdMan57]

I liked the book and have always been a fan of Felder's playing and guitar tones.He seems to have been quite sensitive since early childhood,which might be why he comes off as a bit of a whiner to some.I think that a big reason that the last album was only so so [to me] was the absence of Felder's guitar work.


Ed

[Gas-man]

I don't think he really ever wrote any decent lyrics. You know, like that schlub Beethoven!


Apt comparison.

:huh

[Bluedano1]

From a writing standpoint, what else did Felder come up with during his stint besides the music to HC?

I'm not talking about guitar parts here.


My perspective is you have to look at it thru the "album oriented rock" lens as opposed to hit singles to appreciate Do Felder- he came to the Eagles during "On The Border" and that is a strong, more rock and R&R album, and it showcases Felder's guitar muscle (as well as Frey's)You have "on the Border", "Good Day in Hell", "James Dean" and if you want a hit> "Already Gone" was HUGE!

Skip to the next album and you have just a searing solo on "One of These Nights" also a Huge Hit !

I always loved all the Eagles guitars, was always bummed that GP mag did not do a feature/cover story of all the guitar work thru their career- the gear, etc.

[Hardtail63]

You obviously don't have any passion for music judging by that kind of thinking. Money is more important to you than your convictions or your love of music? Life is too short to be doing something you don't whole-heartedly believe in.


.

Respectfully disagree. Life is too short to be poor and bitter when you can be rich and bitter (not that any of these guys are poor); professionals almost always make concessions that they find offensive to their artistic sensibilities.

[Kanetoads]

I dug into H&H, and like most bios I have read, tried to get an idea on how these guys did what they did...fortunately Felder actually had something to say about the creative and recording process, where many of the bios just seem to be about the typical drugs, drama, pitfalls, etc.

Keep in mind that despite Felder's whining in the book...he won in court......he won...so that says something about how the money was being accounted for, and how obstinate Frey and Henley were being when it came to opening up the books and providing a little transparency and accountability.

I think this is my fifth bio, and despite everyone's point of view, opinions and such..all I have to do is play a few Eagles songs to appreciate the 'end result'...my take is that had Felder not been there, we might not have some of the epic guitar playing...but without Henley as a perfectionist, without Frey as the leader, probably none of this would have worked.

While I can perfectly understand band members getting sick of each other, I am left with trying to understand the reunion tours, and ponder that no matter how much the guys hate each other, I would guess that 20 years later when the money stops rolling in, the bills need to be paid, they start picking up the phone and start mending fences, because all the band drama and silliness is starting to take a big seat to kids college tuition that needs to be paid.

[Gas-man]

From a writing standpoint, what else did Felder come up with during his stint besides the music to HC?

I'm not talking about guitar parts here.


Bump for an answer to what else Felder wrote in terms of music for the Eagles.

All I have heard so far is the music for HC. That couldn't be his only contribution writing-wise.

[MKB]

Bump for an answer to what else Felder wrote in terms of music for the Eagles.

All I have heard so far is the music for HC. That couldn't be his only contribution writing-wise.
He wrote the bass and guitar parts for One Of These Nights, and he also wrote the entirety of Disco Strangler IIRC. Also was a co-writer on Those Shoes, and as he tells it Henley and Frey would only contribute a bit to the writing but make an equal share. So who really knows...

[Stratobuc]

From the third album on, a very good part of the Eagles sound was Don Felder and he contributed far more than Frey when you come down to it, not to mention that if he did not write the music to "Hotel California" that the Eagles would be a tenth as big as they are now. So he did get screwed, he just played his hand bad.

In the Early '70's the Eagles opened for Jethro Tull, who had a song in their show called "We Used To Know". A year later - the Eagles come out with "Hotel California" - a direct ripoff of the chord progression, and the solo at the end. Great composing there, DF.....

[StockRock]

I grew up in the 80s, and I do not have a dog in this hunt, other than that I appreciated Hotel California and thought the music was really good. Don't know many other Eagles songs I don't think.

Didn't know anything about Jethro Tull other than Aqualung the song.

Listenin to We Used to Know now - that's just creepy. A total rip-off. I thought yeah, those are the progressions, but the solo is right there too. So writing the music to Hotel California means nothing to me now.

[Allen in San Jose]

Keep in mind that money and fame do strange and sometimes bad things to a lot of people. So it's not really all that surprising, in retrospect, that Felder's relationship with the Eagles ended the way it did.

[telelion]

Bump for an answer to what else Felder wrote in terms of music for the Eagles.

All I have heard so far is the music for HC. That couldn't be his only contribution writing-wise.

Victim of Love(originated it), and co-writer of Visions, Too Many Hands, Disco Strangler, and Those Shoes. HC was his one great song.

Keep in mind that as much respect that I have for Henley and Frey I have seen them refer to struggling often with writers block and laziness which is why it took the Eagles numerous attempts and years to finally concoct the latest release(not very good IMO) and most of it co-written with the usual suspects. Henley always had a co-writer in his solo career, he being mostly responsible for the lyrics, and Frey did some decent things but not exactly super note worthy in his solo career.

Also, Take it Easy(Jackson Browne), Peaceful Easy Feeling(Jack Tempchin), New Kid in Town(JD Souther), Take It To the Limit(Randy Meisner), How Long(JD Souther) and the only Henley/Frey tunes on Hotel California albeit great ones were Wasted Time and The Last Resort. The riff of Life in the Fast Lane belongs to Joe Walsh. Henley and Frey often share credits but all but two of the songs on their "masterpiece" Hotel California, originated from other sources. It has been said many times, I guess where the frequent remarks of ghostwriting comes in, is that some of the tunes that Henley and Frey have attached their names to, actually they played a very small role in. So they very much relied on others for much of their greatest works.

[gmann]

Well Felder hasn't exactly been tearin' up the music world with his great songwriting and guitar playin' in the 11 yrs since he was fired which is kinda odd considering he was the real key to their success and all. Meanwhile, he old band is still makin' millions. As for the lawsuit, what did he win? The results of the lawsuit are sealed. He does mention he won the right to play Eagles songs. Everybody I know plays Eagles songs, so what. I would bet if they asked him back he would rejoin in a second. What does that tell you?

[Rockledge]

The last good album by the Eagles was "One Of These Nights"
. When Joe Walsh joined them it ruined two good things at the same time.

The most talented guys in the Eagles were Bernie Leadon, Don Felder, and Randy Meisner. I wish those guys would start a band, it would sound far more like the Eagles than the drummer , rhythm guitarist, and a bunch of generic studio players trying to mimic the Eagles is.
Bernie Leadons "Journey Of The Sourcerer" is likely the Eagles best track, and a perfect example of how much of a genius the guy is.
A LOT of the Eagles success is due to having two great producers, Glyn Johns and Bill Mxpytle or whatever. Producers make or break bands. These two guys shaped the bands sound.

I guess rock n roll era music is not any different from the rest of the work force, it is the perfect example of how supertalent is always a threat to hyperambition.


What's weird is just how many photos of just himself are included in that book. Am I the only one to think it a little strange?

Best, Pete.

The book is a bit biographical, I would expect it to have a lot of pictures. Who else would he put pictures of in it, John Wayne? Wayne Newton? Isaac Newton? Isaac Hayse?

What else did he do that contributed so heavily to the Eagles sound?

The Eagles sound (as someone else pointed out) is about singing.
This is not true by any stretch. They had good vocals for certain, but their music was a lot of things, including very interesting musicianship and guitar hooks. Don Felder came into the band on On The Border and gave them a much bigger jammin sound, his guitar work took them from being a good country rock band to being a ASS KICKIN rockncountry band.
If vocals were the main focus of the band that would most certainly have put Don Henly down a few on the totem, he certainly was not the best vocalist in the band. Or for that matter a particularly outstanding drummer.


Well Felder hasn't exactly been tearin' up the music world with his great songwriting and guitar playin' in the 11 yrs since he was fired which is kinda odd considering he was the real key to their success and all. Meanwhile, he old band is still makin' millions. As for the lawsuit, what did he win? The results of the lawsuit are sealed. He does mention he won the right to play Eagles songs. Everybody I know plays Eagles songs, so what. I would bet if they asked him back he would rejoin in a second. What does that tell you?
Of course not, it's all in the name. People recognize a mass marketed name like Eagles, other than guitarists and songwriters few people know who Don Felder is.
Grand Funk Railroad cover band tours all over using the name, and draws crowds from people who even while seeing them don't realize THE GUY that IS GFR is not there, and only their most staunch fans know that if they really want to see the talent in GFR they gotta go see a guy named Mark Farner.

The one thing the guys now calling themeselves the Eagles are VERY talented at is in marketing. They know how to exploint name brand recongition and presence in the community. The same way Fender still has a name in guitars, even though Leo Fender is dead and hasn't owned the company for decades.

I agree. In the end it seemed like he was dishing as much dirt as he could on all of the remaining members to get back at them.

I don't remember reading anywhere that he got sued for the book, which tells me that he must not have wrote anything in there that was untrue. You would think that someone whose ass you kicked in court that you mentioned in a book would do anything to find enough of a flaw in your writing to get some return compensation for the trouble.

[Rockledge]

90% of artistic "inspiration" is craft. When you make comments that are value judgements about artistic "integrity",, etc. vs. playing for the money, please stop for a moment and think about the millions of people who work every day at a job they hate, or at best, tolerate, while being thankful they have the means to feed and clothe and house their families.


I gotta respectfully disagree with this. Artistic inspiration and craft are two different things. Craft is the ability to express artistic inspiration.
A lot of people are artistically very creative and inspired but simply don't have the skills to express it. Just because someone can get a picture of a beautiful landscape scene in his mind doesn't mean he can express it.

Craft is the talent to make what is in your mind into something concrete and percievable by others. Artistry is the ability to concieve it to begin with.

The organists in churches use to read music from a book while playing, and play what was on the page. This was craftsmanship. The guy that wrote "Amazing Grace", now THAT is art.

Most of the Eagles creativity was in the ability to get cool sounds down onto tape because of extremely talented musicianship, mostly from Bernie Leadon, Randy Meisner, and Don Felder.
They could just as easily have been singing songs about rotting garbage or how bad todays traffic was than some of the drivel they were singing and it would have been just as good. What made what they wrote good was the musicianship, vocals, and particularly the production.

[Rockledge]

The book is a really good read and is an eye opener for anyone coming up in the ranks. I never liked the Eagles much as I knew from insiders that Henley & Frey were only in it for the money, which always leads to a revolving door situation and usually the music suffers. I agree with the post which stated that he didn't see Joe Walsh as a fit. Another excellent, eye opening read is Chuck Negron 's autobiography 3 Dog Nightmare

Indeed.
Ever heard an album by a band called Seven Separate Fools? It is Three Dog Night with different singers. MAN, great album.

[ak301]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xny0Uj4--tk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sJA_VF5c7U&feature=related

[telelion]

Well Felder hasn't exactly been tearin' up the music world with his great songwriting and guitar playin' in the 11 yrs since he was fired which is kinda odd considering he was the real key to their success and all. Meanwhile, he old band is still makin' millions. As for the lawsuit, what did he win? The results of the lawsuit are sealed. He does mention he won the right to play Eagles songs. Everybody I know plays Eagles songs, so what. I would bet if they asked him back he would rejoin in a second. What does that tell you?

True. I can't deny that Henley and Frey have raked in millions playing their old hits in recent years without Felder, of course with Steuart Smith playing Don Felder's parts note for note, including emulating his tone on his classic solos. But the Eagles took years and multiple attempts to produce their latest IMO very mediocre at best release, "Long Road out of Eden." Actually I consider it a disaster and I am a die hard Eagle fan. Not to mention there are a lot of outside writers on it and the best cut and only "hit' was JD Souther's "How Long" which was written back in 1972. I haven't noticed Henley or Frey producing anything of note this century either.

But I agree with you on Felder rejoining if he could. He has said so himself. All it it means is that Felder has decided that he would play for less and misses the spotlight, not that Henley and Frey were right. To me a contract that claims you to be an equal partner is to be honored unless there are egregrious reasons to make it nullified which was not the case. It was simple greed. Do you think that John and Paul should have renegotiate George and Ringo's status during their career, as they were not the principle writers or singers?

[franksguitar]

I seems that similar things happened with the original Guns & Roses with Axl Rose as well as Henley & Frey with the Eagles where lawyers wind up drawing up exclusive contracts relegating the rest of the members as paid sidemen when they could have been major contributors to the music. It seems the Eagles have become a cover band of themselves using hired guns.

[jabhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVaiRLDM628

[Chicken_feed]

What else did he do that contributed so heavily to the Eagles sound?

The Eagles sound (as someone else pointed out) is about singing.

It's about the guitars too. The dual singing lead guitars. Hotel California has one of the most famous guitar solos ever recorded. "One of These Nights," what would it be without that dual guitar intro?

Lyrics, absolutely are a major factor. But guitars are a major factor also. We're talking legendary guitars here.

[doublee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVaiRLDM628

Ha very good...

[semi-hollowbody]

I don't remember reading anywhere that he got sued for the book, which tells me that he must not have wrote anything in there that was untrue. You would think that someone whose ass you kicked in court that you mentioned in a book would do anything to find enough of a flaw in your writing to get some return compensation for the trouble.
I would imagine Henley and Frey dont want to draw any more attention to the book...a lawsuit would make the book sales skyrocket...not to mention there is a huge grey area between someones perspective and blatant slanderous lies...the book was probably HEAVILY skewed and biased in Felders favour, but nothing was a blatant lie that would hold up in court...I bet if Henley or Frey wrote books, their perspective would be completely different, but the BASIC facts would remain the same

It seemed like Frey was always defending the band relationships and hiding the real dynamic in interviews...there was already the buzz in the music biz on how difficult they were to work with...

I actually read the book again and Felder seemed like more of a baby than the first time...I think when Frey said the whole "eagles will be equal, no sidemen"...he didnt realize what a HUGE cash cow it would become...once it did, their managers recognized the core group (henley/frey) and probably did alot to convince them THEY were the eagles...

Think about it...If Henley, Frey, Tim, and Walsh toured as the eagles, and Felder, Meisner, Leadon also toured as the eagles, who would you pay big money to see...henley and frey could hire a bunch of sidemen, cut a few songs, and still make a ton of moolah

[Schafrocks]

I would imagine Henley and Frey dont want to draw any more attention to the book...a lawsuit would make the book sales skyrocket...not to mention there is a huge grey area between someones perspective and blatant slanderous lies...the book was probably HEAVILY skewed and biased in Felders favour, but nothing was a blatant lie that would hold up in court...I bet if Henley or Frey wrote books, their perspective would be completely different, but the BASIC facts would remain the same

It seemed like Frey was always defending the band relationships and hiding the real dynamic in interviews...there was already the buzz in the music biz on how difficult they were to work with...

I actually read the book again and Felder seemed like more of a baby than the first time...I think when Frey said the whole "eagles will be equal, no sidemen"...he didnt realize what a HUGE cash cow it would become...once it did, their managers recognized the core group (henley/frey) and probably did alot to convince them THEY were the eagles...

Think about it...If Henley, Frey, Tim, and Walsh toured as the eagles, and Felder, Meisner, Leadon also toured as the eagles, who would you pay big money to see...henley and frey could hire a bunch of sidemen, cut a few songs, and still make a ton of moolah

I agree. I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It's just a matter of who's telling the story.

Schaf

[Soul Man]

I haven't been able to read the book yet - how does Joe Walsh come off in Felder's eyes?

Also, I would love to see Felder, Meisner and Leadon together. Randy Meisner is so underrated.

[Smakutus]

I haven't been able to read the book yet - how does Joe Walsh come off in Felder's eyes?

He felt that Joe and Tim should have stuck with him to get more money or whatever.. But they didn't want anything to do with this.

Jeff

[2HBStrat]

I just checked out "Times we Used to Know" by Jethro Tull on Youtube. IMO while there are some similiar chord changes as compared to "Hotel California" there are probably just as many differences. There is a guitar solo at the end but it doesn't sound anything like the solo at the end of HC to me. The Eagles probably drew inspiration on tour with Jethro Tull, but The Eagles took that WAY past what JT was doing, again, IMO.

OTOH I heard a song today on Sirius/XM by Bob Dylan that was totally stolen from "All Your Love" by John Mayall, which I think was originally done by Otis Rush. I didn't write down the name of the song, however. If he didn't have a million albums I'd try to search it down...:bonk

I found it after all: "Beyond Here Lies Nothing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TbmP2vXeQs

[Steve_2020]

I finally got this book as a gift and read it. Rolling Stone's review of it called it a 'revenge book, but a good read." I'll go along with that.

Someone on this thread mentioned the Eagles never should have brought Don in as an equal partner. Well that's the way a lot of bands did things back then, though it would soon change for the Eagles. Just a bit later, Joe and Tim were brought in as well paid sidemen, pretty sure.

Don does come across as a whiner for sure, but this is in a book written after he was fired from the band, a band that was once on top of the freaking world and coked/partied out of their minds all at the same time - ultimate 70s superstar rock band story.

For sure Don helped take the Eagles to the next level-rockwise- in 1973/4 and when they wanted even more guitar firepower for stadiums, Joe Walsh- a bonafide 70s guitar hero, with power trio roots- was drafted/grafted into the group. It all worked for me. I love the early Eagles and the 'biggest American band of the 70s' later Eagles.

There were some Major issues going on in the Eagles during their biggest 70s years. They broke up for almost 15 years ferchrissakes.

What Don seemed to miss out understanding, and (very hard to believe) which apparently was not Spelled Out for him when they reunited, was the 70s dynamic of the band: Frey and Henley as leaders was now uber-official.

Walsh and Schmidt - who had never had equal shares to my knowledge- were overjoyed that the Eagles were getting back together. Like everyone involved, they knew it was a goldmine and they'd be set for life (which they weren't prior to the mid 90s reunion)- if the reunion lasted. Even if it didn't and there was only the Hell Freezes Over tour- still a huge payday for all the major players- even if Henley/Frey were now getting bigger money.

In his book, Don comes off as a whiner that things had changed...and (in his mind) is still operating under the equal partner deal of he came in under in the mid 1970s.

The Eagles should have redone their agreement with him - or maybe they were afraid he'd not do the reunion- though that's hard to believe. Or perhaps, as he claims, he was on very firm legal ground all along: an equal partner who would be very expensive to get rid of, buy out etc etc.

In anycase, the years long bad blood rift between him and Frey never really healed and it was Glenn who -in the end of the book- seems to be the main guy who can't stand Don's attitude and was probably the guy who pushed the button on the expensive firing of DF. Frey's "I don't ever want to see another effing letter from your lawyer" quote speaks volumes. How could Don NOT HAVE KNOWN he was hanging himself???

Still, for a major Eagles fan - this book was an interesting read. I know it's Don's version of things and there's a bunch of negativity in there- but it's still fun to get some of the backstage and studio ancedotes.
-----------------
Fwiw, a friend in the concert biz played golf with one of the two remaining "well paid Eagles sidemen" during their 2004/5 tour. I won't say whether it was Walsh or Schmidt because it's just a story I was told.

Apparently one of the members of the foursome that day was a close friend of The Eagle and (a bit away from my friend, but not out of earshot) asked how everything was going, how they were getting along etc on the tour. The Eagle (apparently) replied "oh we're getting along ok. And I'll clear $8 million after taxes this year." For playing something like 50-60 shows!

And they've done about 4 or so world tours (and one "California tour") since Felder was let go.

You Know Don Felder got a Huge settlement. It took Glenn Frey literally not being able to stand being in a band with him to get them to the point of firing him.

And there was no word from Felder for almost 5 years while the big settlement was worked out (& after things were settled, he spent a year or so writing his 'revenge book'...)

But even with a super lucrative settlement, Don Felder left millions (perhaps tens of millions) on the table. Money that Tim and Joe are still making. And they're out there playing for 15,000 adoring fans every night - as they enter their 60s.

And the Eagles gig is as first class as it gets: jetting from gig to gig, the best hotels...life on the road made as easy as it can possibly be. All while banking huge bucks. Sweet, sweet way to get ready for retirement.

Money and the Ride sort of aside; I don't care who you are, you gotta miss that kind of concert/performance rush at some point

I've read that a while back (last tour? tour before?) .. Randy Meisner communicated to the Eagles (through channels) that he'd love to come down and play a few songs at one their LA shows- just to Do It Again. Apparently he got no response back...and Glenn now sings "Take It To The Limit" every night..

Geeze. (sigh..)

If Don Felder would have just shut up and played his guitar, after their 1995 reunion. He's just not wired that way I guess. Never has been.

Many of us have been in bands with a member (or more) who was a major pain in the ass. I think the talented Don Felder was that guy for the Eagles- especially for Glenn Frey. And - though Don Henley is the most talented guy in the Eagles, and certainly has a major say in things-my take is that Glenn is the bandleader and definitely the wrong guy to repeatedly piss off.

imho, ymmv etc

[Stringbender11]

I havent read the book but plan to. Sad isnt it though, how greedy and shitty people in famous bands often are to each other. I really loved the Eagles but have a feeling I wont be loving them as much after I read that book. It always seems disappointing when you find out the details behind the scenes of bigtime rock acts.

[korby]

I just checked out "Times we Used to Know" by Jethro Tull on Youtube. IMO while there are some similiar chord changes as compared to "Hotel California" there are probably just as many differences. There is a guitar solo at the end but it doesn't sound anything like the solo at the end of HC to me. The Eagles probably drew inspiration on tour with Jethro Tull, but The Eagles took that WAY past what JT was doing, again, IMO.




Wow , sounds the same to me . Did Anderson ever call them on this ?

[gillman royce]

I havent read the book but plan to. Sad isnt it though, how greedy and shitty people in famous bands often are to each other. I really loved the Eagles but have a feeling I wont be loving them as much after I read that book. It always seems disappointing when you find out the details behind the scenes of bigtime rock acts.

There were a number of bands that came together ONLY for the money - not like they were friends before or that making great music was the goal - and The Eagles(Henley/Frey) were/are one of the greatest offenders. A few good songs but sh+t people.

[2HBStrat]

....Someone on this thread mentioned the Eagles never should have brought Don in as an equal partner. Well that's the way a lot of bands did things back then, though it would soon change for the Eagles. ....

How do you make someone an equal partner and then just take it away? How does that work?

Wow , sounds the same to me . Did Anderson ever call them on this ?

I don't know. I just heard about that song on this thread!

[Stratobuc]

Ian Anderson laughed it off (Martin Barre wrote the riff), but its obvious the eggles ripped it off. Hey - its only stealing if you get caught.

[DonW]

Fame & fortune are obscenely intoxicating when mixed with ego so these situations aren't that surprising but as a fan it's disappointing when it crumbles.

As for the song: Amateurs borrow, pros steal...:dunno

[robbinsteele]

c'mon guys-hc ain't no ripoff of tull-we used to know was years earlier and not a hit-everyone forgot about it.and the solo at the end?i don't hear no wahwah on felders'/walsh's solos...huh? oh

[coldinWI]

As far as the Hotel California riff, everything is stolen to some degree. That which is not based on something else is generally unlistenable.

I think Felder was integral in the songwriting in that they went from Country/Easy listening, to a Rock Band with country influences thanks to him. Don was also great in what he didn't play. "In the pocket" players are rare. As well, hooks are important and more rare still. His contribution is stout in the mid 70's Eagles.

Not to make excuses for Henley and Frey, but they were the main song writing partners of the Eagles. Most people who are talented, and driven to excel, often rub people the wrong way. You don't become successful by being lackadaisical and wishy washy, unless you inherit :rotflmao.

[Steve_2020]

Someone on this thread mentioned the Eagles never should have brought Don in as an equal partner. Well that's the way a lot of bands did things back then, though it would soon change for the Eagles.


How do you make someone an equal partner and then just take it away? How does that work?

I don't think it does work. The next line in my comments was:

"... a bit later, Joe and Tim were brought in as well paid sidemen, pretty sure."

Meaning Don Felder was the last guy to come on board as a equal partner. Guessing the main Eagles (Frey and Henley) and manager Irv Azoff saw more changes on the horizon.

When Joe and then Tim were brought in (in 1975 and 1977?) they were under different money deals, not equal partners...maybe more like the agreement Ron Wood has with the three official Rolling Stones.

Felder apparently remained a full partner in the reunited group until the Eagles-mainly Glen Frey- couldn't take his questioning and complaining anymore- and they fired him in the early 2000s...then took several years to hammer out an expensive settlement -in or out of court- and buy him out.

truthfully I can see both sides of the story.

If it were me, I probably would have acknowledged the 1990s reorg/ leadership change - or maybe the late 70s leadership: Glenn and Don Henley fully running things - was finally formalized under the new corporation set up to handle 1990s/onwards Eagles business. Also that the 2 leaders/primary stars of the band were now making more tour money than the others...

And I probably would have just dealt with it, being a non-singing and generally non-writing lead guitarist :) - like Don Felder is. And would still be in the band playing to sold out arena audiences on multiple tours into the twilight of my and the band's career. Not to mention going to the bank -repeatedly:)

Don Felder obviously felt differently and handled it differently.

No doubt Felder's a talented guy and contributed to their 70s success.. but, by his own admission- he was a relatively unknown (but connected) sideman who was extremely lucky to get invited to join a very popular band that already had a bunch of big hits and gold albums and still on their way up, trying to set things up guitar-wise to take their music in a different, rockier direction.

Sure, Don did his part: rocking things up and coming up with guitar hooks and solos and...yes...the somewhat familiar verse chord progression (similar to ones already used by Ian Anderson in 'We Used To Know' and Leon Russell in 'Home Sweet Oklahoma') that enabled the Eagles to come up with a huge, signature hit.

And he was very well paid for all his 70s work. Multiple houses, yachts (an airplane?).. no real money worries

So in my book, he's still a lucky guy.. All the Eagles are talented, lucky guys.

imho, ymmv

[hotraman]

Ian Anderson laughed it off (Martin Barre wrote the riff), but its obvious the eggles ripped it off. Hey - its only stealing if you get caught.

There's a youtube interview with Ian Anderson from Tull... He is all class. Rare these days!

[toocommercial]

Once Meisner and Leadon were out and the hired guns were in, Felder was on his own. That must have been a lonely place. In my opinion he did the right thing by going for the money in court. I'm sure he misses playing, but not with those two egotistical jerks.

[gmann]

Once Meisner and Leadon were out and the hired guns were in, Felder was on his own. That must have been a lonely place. In my opinion he did the right thing by going for the money in court. I'm sure he misses playing, but not with those two egotistical jerks.

You're sure? He has stated many times that he would return if asked.

[toocommercial]

You're sure? He has stated many times that he would return if asked.

Well that's just deluded on his part. Wow.

[gibsonguitar1988]

c'mon guys-hc ain't no ripoff of tull-we used to know was years earlier and not a hit-everyone forgot about it.and the solo at the end?i don't hear no wahwah on felders'/walsh's solos...huh? oh

+1 Agreed. They have a similar progression and Don Felder who wrote the progression for the song wasn't even in the band at the time the Eagles were opening for Tull.

[gibsonguitar1988]

I love the Eagles. My favorite band by far. Joe Walsh is my favorite guitarist of all time and my hero but Don Felder is right behind him at #1.5. They make up my favorite duo of all time. I do miss Don Felder but I will always love and respect the Eagles as they saved my life at a point where I was about to commit suicide. I heard Hotel California and that was the turning point in my life.

I've told the story many times of the day I heard Hotel California and it hit me like a ton of bricks, prior to hearing that I was preparing to kill myself. As I was doing that, I went through some music of my parents as it was recommended to me for therapeutic reasons. I didn't connect with most of it but when I heard Hotel California the chills went up and down my spine. Then those solos made me go "This is my purpose in life. Don't end it yet. This is what I am on earth to do. This is what I want to do with my life.". And the next week or so I started teaching myself guitar. A few years later I form an Eagles tribute band to celebrate the legacy and music of that band and it's members. I will keep their music alive and always hold it to the highest regard. That band is like family to me. I defend them as if they were my own blood. They aren't just a band to me. They are like a part of my life in some strange way. They saved my life. They prevented me from what I believe was a certain death. Everyone is or should be grateful for someone saving their life. It just so happens it was through music and by a famous rockstar named Joe Walsh (and Don Felder to a degree too). That album is the soundtrack of my life. That song, album, and band is the be all end all of music to me. If I had to pick one album to listen to for the rest of my life and no others - I'd have no problem picking Hotel California. I love every song on it. I learned later about the band members and their solo and other band projects. I also learned that my favorite part of the Hotel California solo was done by Joe Walsh and that I preferred his more play-by-feel looseness to Felder's more technical approach although I also love and admire Don Felder. But the Eagles are why I'm still alive.

I love the band period. I miss Don Felder but the band as a whole is bigger than any members separately. Felder didn't make or break the Eagles. It was a group effort in which Felder played a big part in. But Joe Walsh did a lot too.

I prefer Hotel California and Long Run era Eagles or some of the albums with Felder. I'm not a huge Bernie Leadon fan but I certainly respect him as a player and what he brought to the band during that time. The way I look at it - the Eagles started out Country. When they added Felder they went to Country-Rock. When Walsh joined and Leadon left - they became a Classic Rock Supergroup IMO. Best band of all time as far as I'm concerned. Joe Walsh is my god/idol/hero. But I still love Don Felder's parts too.

[Gandalf5150]

FANTASTIC thread. Many thanks to all contribotors for the Eagles education.

I've been an Eagles fan since I was about 15 years old, though I've never known much about the bands politics.

I've never read any Eagles biogs, but I will get Felders book and have a read.


Edited...Just ordered the book and this thread inspired me to order the Farewell 1 Tour-Live from Melbourne. It looks like a fantastic DVD. An interesting point is this is the first time The Eagles have used a drum machine in a live performance.:omg:rimshot

[rickc007]

Apparently one of the members of the foursome that day was a close friend of The Eagle and (a bit away from my friend, but not out of earshot) asked how everything was going, how they were getting along etc on the tour. The Eagle (apparently) replied "oh we're getting along ok. And I'll clear $8 million after taxes this year." For playing something like 50-60 shows!

And they've done about 4 or so world tours (and one "California tour") since Felder was let go.


But even with a super lucrative settlement, Don Felder left millions (perhaps tens of millions) on the table. Money that Tim and Joe are still making. And they're out there playing for 15,000 adoring fans every night - as they enter their 60s.

And the Eagles gig is as first class as it gets: jetting from gig to gig, the best hotels...life on the road made as easy as it can possibly be. All while banking huge bucks. Sweet, sweet way to get ready for retirement.

Money and the Ride sort of aside; I don't care who you are, you gotta miss that kind of concert/performance rush at some point



Remember hearing from a "reliable" source, that Felder scored HUGE !
And rightfully so, he was legally entitled to it.

Think it was like 60 to 80 million bucks.
The Eagles were already under contract for the tour, and at an agreed amount.

Felder was fired, but still got his share, and I think consideration for
"future earnings" .... perhaps royalties something, I can't remember.

I like what you say about the concert rush
The "Hell freezes over Tour", Felder is the only one to seem to be enjoying it.
Just probably Cha Ching $ for the others

[Guitar55]

I'm half-way through the book, so I'll comment on something other than 'the feud'.

At times his timeline seems to be off...he goes to see Miles Davis perform 'Bitches Brew" (released 1970) and a 'few months later' hears Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth'(released 1966) for the first time.

The best part for me was the stoy of how he filled in for an ailing David Lindley with Crosby & Nash at The Capitol Theater in NJ, since I was at that show!

[fenderlead]

Anyone who could actually play the simple chord progressions of Hotel California and Tull's We Used To Know would realize that Ian Anderson must be a great guy to let that pass.

It's not a common chord progression like a blues or whatever and the probability of 2 bands developing an unusual chord progression independently is quite low.

It's 8 uncommon chords in sequence and the major difference is that the Tull song is in 3/4 time compared to the Eagles 4/4, which is a simple and easy change, and the Eagles added a chorus and whacked on their guitar solo at the end and wrote their own lyrics about Hollywood self indulgence.

I'd like to see someone post another song example that uses these 8 chords in exact sequence.

There is one minor difference on the 7th chord which is an easy change to do in a turnaround.

As for Felder not being in the Eagles in the early 70s, well, people do listen to or hear other bands albums even though they are not in that band.

xny0Uj4--tk

EgO7MamJnqM

[Rockledge]

Anyone who could actually play the simple chord progressions of Hotel California and Tull's We Used To Know would realize that Ian Anderson must be a great guy to let that pass.

It's not a common chord progression like a blues or whatever and the probability of 2 bands developing an unusual chord progression independently is quite low.

It's 8 uncommon chords in sequence and the major difference is that the Tull song is in 3/4 time compared to the Eagles 4/4, which is a simple and easy change, and the Eagles added a chorus and whacked on their guitar solo at the end and wrote their own lyrics about Hollywood self indulgence.

I'd like to see someone post another song example that uses these 8 chords in exact sequence.

There is one minor difference on the 7th chord which is an easy change to do in a turnaround.

As for Felder not being in the Eagles in the early 70s, well, people do listen to or hear other bands albums even though they are not in that band.

xny0Uj4--tk

EgO7MamJnqM

Chord progressions are not normally protected by copyright, unless the chord progression itself carries a specific melody line. So, Ian Anderson and/or the songs publisher may not have any any legal standing.

[fenderlead]

What about the melody in the verses of the two songs?

They sound pretty similar but I havn't seen the actual transcriptions.

[Nickstrtcstr]

Chord progressions are not normally protected by copyright, unless the chord progression itself carries a specific melody line. So, Ian Anderson and/or the songs publisher may not have any any legal standing.
Interesting.......................................

[EdMan57]

The verse chords in Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" are quite similar to the chords in The Eagles "One Of The Nights",but I would never confuse the two songs.There are hundreds of great songs that share similar chord progressions.

5pidokakU4I


Ed

[mockoman]

"Second Coming" by Alice Cooper. Love it to Death album,1971(?).
Same chord sequence during the guitar solo.

[Nickstrtcstr]

The verse chords in Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" are quite similar to the chords in The Eagles "One Of The Nights",but I would never confuse the two songs.There are hundreds of great songs that share similar chord progressions.

5pidokakU4I


Ed
I don't know if I totally agree with this. Hotel California: Bm, F#, A, E, G, D, Em. Comfortably Numb Bm: A, G, (quick stop @ F#) then E. The tempo is different as well. Even before the 'Hell Freezes Over' version I always felt Hotel California had a very Flamenco like progression.

[fenderlead]

The One Of These Nights chord sequence is more common in Rock and R&B than Hotel California's chord sequence.

Just because the chord sequence might be similar in various songs is probably not worth pursuing and the same chord sequence occurring in different songs happens a lot.

Where Hotel California is different is that the chord sequence is unusual in Rock and surprise surprise Jethro Tull also uses the same chord sequence with a minor variation.

But it is also the melody as well.

The Jethro Tull verse melody is very similar to the Eagles verse melody.

[motis1953]

Sounds like Jethro Tull could have also borrowed the progression from Bach or one of the other classical masters. Let's cut Don Felder a little slack. His song is brilliant.

[fenderlead]

In this case it's not only the chord progression.

It's the verse melody as well.

Plus there are other indicators, like certain guitar things being very similar in the two songs and the overall feel as well.

The two songs are too similar to be just coincidence.

Some Eagles fanboys would disagree though as their heroes could not possibly do such a thing, but it goes on all the time like Led Zep, Deep Purple and loads of others did.

It goes on with today's songs as well.

There is a fine line between borrowing and copying.

It's ok if credit is given to the source but if the credit isn't given then it can end up like Led Zep did with a fair bit of legal activity.

In this case, Ian Anderson has let it slide and that's that.

[Rockledge]

What about the melody in the verses of the two songs?

They sound pretty similar but I havn't seen the actual transcriptions.

I forget the exact rule, but it goes something like that the melody has to follow exactly for so many notes/bars/ or some other period of time signature. It really has to be pretty blatantly identical from a defined point of view, but in reality it still comes down to a jury and how good of a song and dance lawyers put on for them.

[Rockledge]

There's a youtube interview with Ian Anderson from Tull... He is all class. Rare these days!

Not to get off in left field, but I read an interview one time with a guy that got busted at a Tull concert with a portable recorder.
The guy said security took him to a room, and Ian Anderson came into the room and sat down with the guy and explained to him why he doesn't particularly care for bootleg recordings.
The guy seemed to be pretty impressed with not only the fact Mr Anderson took it upon himself to deal with the situation, but he seemed to agree with Mr Andersons explanation.

[Rockledge]

I have a copy of STand Up here, and listened to that tune.
Man, the chord progression certainly is suspiciously the same.
But, the lead vocal melody is quite different and it is metered differently.
On the other hand, if I remember right that progression is simply a combination of the major scale and working the circle of 5ths ( I might be mistaken about that, I am not thinking it through that hard). Which, if that is the case it isn't beyond imagination that more than one writer would come up with it.

[fenderlead]

The chord progression goes from each chord,

root->fifth->minor 3rd->fifth->minor 3rd etc and then turnaround to the dominant of the root and back to root.

ie

Bm->F#->A->E(9)->G->D->Em7->F#7

Tull's version is the same except for the turnaround where the Em7 is a different chord.

The continual fifth->minor 3rd chord progression is not all that common and the actual number of fifth->minor 3rd chord changes leading back to the turnaround with the dominant chord would be more rare again but these songs share that.

In other words, the structure of the two songs is basically the same and the structure is not that common.

The melody is in 3/4 in the Tull version and it's in 4/4 in the Eagles version and the melody lines are similar in the verses especially the melody note that corresponds with each chord change.

The songs are in different keys as well.
Bm Eagles and Em for Tull.

Ian Anderson isn't doing anything so that's that, and it's up to him.

All anyone can really say is that the two songs sound similar in certain ways.
Very similar IMO.

[Sammo]

The songs are in different keys as well.
Bm Eagles and Em for Tull.


It's been a while since I read the book but IIRC Felder wrote it in other key than Bm. Could have been E minor?

I tried to google it and found this:
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME09/Locked_into_the_Hotel_California.shtml

[fenderlead]

It's been a while since I read the book but IIRC Felder wrote it in other key than Bm. Could have been E minor?

I tried to google it and found this:
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME09/Locked_into_the_Hotel_California.shtml

I think that author is looking really hard for connections to the Hotel California chord progression and has to go to some rather way out Spanish and Folk theories to half explain it as the chord progression is so rare in any form of music and the Hotel California chord progression had already been done previously by Jethro Tull and the chances of 2 different bands writing the same very unusual chord progression would be next to nil.

Tull may have got parts of the chord progression from Folk Music for all I know but the total Tull chord progression is pretty unusual and Hotel California follows Tull's chord progression.

[EdMan57]

I don't know if I totally agree with this. Hotel California: Bm, F#, A, E, G, D, Em. Comfortably Numb Bm: A, G, (quick stop @ F#) then E. The tempo is different as well. Even before the 'Hell Freezes Over' version I always felt Hotel California had a very Flamenco like progression.

I agree.Notice that I refered to "One of These Nights",not "Hotel California".


Ed

[Flogger59]

It's been a while since I read the book but IIRC Felder wrote it in other key than Bm. Could have been E minor?

I tried to google it and found this:
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME09/Locked_into_the_Hotel_California.shtml (http://www.icce.rug.nl/%7Esoundscapes/VOLUME09/Locked_into_the_Hotel_California.shtml)

I read that it was a third higher, so Dm.


The saddest of all possible keys.

[Terry McInturff]

Did the author happen to mention that 98% of that Eagles live record was overdubbed? The engineer involved said that about the only thing they kept from the actual live tracks was some of the snare hits..........

[jiml]

Did the author happen to mention that 98% of that Eagles live record was overdubbed? The engineer involved said that about the only thing they kept from the actual live tracks was some of the snare hits..........

Didn't remember that....

[Steve_2020]

On the other hand, if I remember right that progression is simply a combination of the major scale and working the circle of 5ths ( I might be mistaken about that, I am not thinking it through that hard). Which, if that is the case it isn't beyond imagination that more than one writer would come up with it.

I can see both sides.

Always thought that while not a blues or standard pop/rock progression, there was a cycle of fifths or some other basic musical thing going on and this progression could be found - by different composers- via a fomulaic approach.

Truly: first noticed the similarity between the tunes in the 1970s as both a Tull and Eagles fan. Also noticed Leon Russell's verse chords to "Home Sweet Oklahoma" (released in 1971 or so) were also somewhat similar, though Leon used piano voicings.. So always thought this type of descending, logical/musical sounding progression was a cycle of fifths/whatever thing.

there IS that melody similarity thing between 'We Used To Know' and 'HC'...hmmmm :)

As others have mentioned, the lawsuit ball was in Ian's court and he took a pass- with his typical class and humour..

[mc5nrg]

You can't copyright chord changes.

[Rockledge]

I still wish Don Felder, Randy Meisner, and Bernie Leadon would find a drummer and rhythm guitar player and do a REAL Eagles album.